so... anyone in vicinity of vancouver or toronto

[faithnotgreed]

like to help me out with my pondering of moving to your country

im considering a big move to one of these areas (they are at the top of the list mainly because i know of them to be the most progressive areas for alternative medicine practitioners and organic/vegetarian life)
of course if anyone wants to suggest any other possibilities that fit then please let me know

so im wondering if anyone lives there and can give a realistic idea of basic employment and housing prospects
ive taken the workers test online and have the required money (according to whats listed on the canada website) to get me started

i would like to understand from those of you who live there if things are so competitive that i should seriously consider other options or is the general economy and environment pretty strong
all contingent on my being accepted of course

thanks so much for any information and if you would like to pm then thats fine also
just to give an idea my background is varied incl director of a small non profit for court involved youth also done some graphic design and editing of environmental journal among other non profit like things

thanks and peace

on edit: to give a better idea i am also considering a move to berkeley ca so one way or the other i think i may be exiting washington dc

[Maple]

1. I'm in Ontario

3 hours away from Toronto, but of course am there frequently.

It's a city of 4 million people, and our largest.

Alternative medicine is very popular here, and Canada is booming economically.

[faithnotgreed]

2. yea~ toronto clearly has a lot to offer

as do many other areas all across canada

and i dont want to limit myself to just those 2 places given there a lots of fantastic towns and cities but to be realistic about what i enjoy and respect then these 2 cities top the list

but i also love smaller towns/villages so its a nice problem to have (i mean canada having so many great options)

thanks for the feedback

[HEyHEY]

3. Vanouver and Toronto housing is expensive

Unless you wish to live in Tri-cities, Surrey...etc.
Alternative medicine would be a good bet in Vancouver.
It's a great city.

[faithnotgreed]

4. thanks h2 (again)

i know you suggested nelson
and i think thats a possibility

and yes i hear that vancouver is way expensive
and im not a fan of the emphasis on money/image so it may not be the best fit anyway but they do have the other things im looking for

but outside of the 2 main cities (van and toronto) + nelson
i just dont have any handle on where the progressive organic alternative medicine and some mass transit places are in ontario or bc

from the little ive seen there is victoria and some towns across vancouver island but i dont know which ones are the best fit
or if there are any others

google here i come

[V. Kid]

5. As a BC'er born and raised...

...I'll speak good of the province.

Nelson's a nice little town. If your not used of long drives to get to bigger centre's it may be a bit much to go there. Also you'll probably have less chance of getting a decent job there, than you would if you went to Vancouver or Victoria. It's a really progressive town, and being the home of many draft dodgers, there are a lot of American ex-pats living there. I think I read something about the area of having five times the per capita rate of ex-Americans. Heck the local MLA is a former Vietnam vet. Also since it is a small town I don't know how great it's access to alternative medicines would be...but I'd assume that's it's better than many other towns of comprable size considering the more socially liberal culture of the place. Again keep in mind that small towns don't really have transit, but I know that some people live there just fine without regular access to a car. So it might not be that bad. If I lived there though, I'd buy a car. http://www.bctransit.com/regions/nel/?p=2.pic There's a link to BC Transit's page for Nelson.

Victoria might be a good alternative to Vancouver if you want to go to the west coast, but don't want to live in a bigger city. While Vancouver can be expensive, it's not as if everyone living there is rich or anything, by any means...so if you really like it you'll surely find affordable housing. Heck Berkley California is probably way more expensive. Victoria has a decent transit system, but it's kind of expensive and more limited due to it's size...although I'm sure you could rely on it if you wanted to, and it's not as if Vancouver's transit system is particularly cheap either (well, at least not imo). Although housing costs there are probably cheaper, so it's probably offsets that. It's a good size too so employment would be a good possibility, but not in the civil service due to our cost cutting goverment.

http://www.busonline.ca/regions/vic/?p=1.txt - link for Transit in Victoria

http://www.translink.bc.ca/?p=1.txt - link for Transit in Vancouver

Sorry I didn't answer your questions about alternative medicine though, I don't really know anything about that sort of thing.

[faithnotgreed]

7. thanks v kid

thats good information

i am trying to narrow down the possibilities
so yes there is vancouver and victoria and nelson as the main places that would have the counter culture needed for organics and alternative medicine etc

thank you for some perspective on vancouver and nelson - thats another thing that matters to me
if i could live where i dont require a car then that is my preference
and its funny you mention berkeley since that is another possibility im looking into
if the right place opened up i would prefer canada but i have to see whats meant to happen

the vibe i get from victoria seems more touristy or conservative (i cant quite name it yet) so im not sure its for me but its good to hear from someone who knows about it
i dont mind touristy at all - i live in washington dc - but i dont want the dollar to be king
wherever it is that i move

i was in victoria about 8 yrs ago and also salt spring island and vancouver
it was a quick trip and i wasnt thinking of moving at that time so i didnt look at it with those eyes
but i do like the idea of a smaller city though i love all kinds of places so large or small isnt an issue but the options of a larger place is probably the best fit

im also looking at ontario and so far i guess that leaves toronto and ottawa by and large

thanks again so much for the guidance
i sure can use it~

[V. Kid]

9. just a bit more

About Victoria, it's probably more conservative than Vancouver, but not in any political sense if you know what I mean. A better word than conservative might be more sedate because it's smaller, and because of it's reputation of being "more English than England". But politically Vancouver Island is generally pretty left-leaning, and it's socially liberal too. During our last provincial election I remember reading some right-wing, Canadian sites, and they were discussing the BC election. They were derivatively referring to the Island as "Fantasy Island" because of it's progressive politics. The Island, including Victoria, went to the NDP (the centre-left party), by about 7%, while the province as a whole went to the Liberals (the centre-right party, and yeah the name is confusing socially libertarian but economically right-wing) by about 4.5%.

I can't say anything about Ontario though, cause I don't have enough experience to comment. Although, the summers are really hot due to the humidity and the fact that it regularly gets over 30C/86F. And they actually have four seasons, including snow. Which reminds me the good thing about Nelson, weather wise, compared to areas to the east of the Rockies is that it's actually not that cold. You'll get snow, but it shouldn't be anything crazy, and it's relatively mild. Apparently the western side of the Rockies is known as the warmer side. And while staying on the coast will have warmer winters than Nelson there will be a lot more rain during the fall/winter/spring on the coast. And of course the differences between dry and warm (humid) heat depending on your preference.

[faithnotgreed]

11. thank you

thats good to know more about victoria

my impression was the island would be more left leaning i just thought victoria (with its english and tourism thing) would be more conservative but good to know its not completely
ill have to check out their alternative medicine community

someone from the board here lives in victoria and recommended it but thought the jobs wouldnt be so easy to come by
which makes sense given its a smaller community but important to keep in mind since there arent a ton of options

i havent quite come to terms about the weather yet
of course the idea of temperate is a draw and i havent lived anywhere like that before so it pulls me in
and i have read about ontario etc winters being downright cold for long periods though thats not a surprise as i have lived on the eastern side of the states

so weatherwise its a choice between bc as more cloudy and rainy - like seattle of course - and more like northeast weather in ontario
ugh high humidity is not my favorite
the more ive looked into it it does sound cold cold winters and warm humid summers

its all pieces of the puzzle
moving to the west would be a huge move for me let alone to western canada so there are lots of pieces to consider

thank you again for your time in explaining these specifics
i do so appreciate it

take good care and i hope to see you around some time

[MrPrax]

6. Have You Considered...

Calgary...

Certainly redneck, but the joint is jumping and there is a good alt med/organics community there as well as a top flight transit system (one of the best in North America)...

I suggest it as your distant third choice is Nelson--Calgary has the mountains close by.

Just A Thought :-)

[faithnotgreed]

8. hi mrprax

actually i have thought of calgary but from a couple threads ive seen and from a description of it by another duer its not likely for me
but of course im interested in hearing other opinions

from what ive taken from the descriptions it is a city similar to denver or dallas
it does have some progressive options as most cities do but can be pretty conservative eg has some outright bigotry

im looking for a place where people love and support each other
thats why berkeley area is an option if i stay in the us
i live in dc and actually like it here
its a nice small city that votes 90% democratic with mass transit
not as much organic/alternative medicine options as other places but enough for me to be content and i live in a simple place that provides just enough of these things that im looking for

and thank you again for the information
i wont cross calgary off completely until ive done more research

best wishes

[V. Kid]

10. Wel...

Calgary is conservative Canadian wise, but that still means it's relativley liberal in an American context. Let's just say it's white breadish...not horribly offensive...but it defenetly isn't cutting edge socially. It's sort of like a classically conservative place, but not regressive and reactionary. I wouldn't say there's a whole lot of bigotry or anything there, yeah there's the MP Rob Anders from Calgary West, who is a complete nut job. But other than that it's not a horrible city. I'll begrudgingly admit that you might have a better shot at getting a job there, as the economy is defenetly booming in Alberta and especially in Calgary. But hopefully your not looking for minimum wage work, cause their minimum wage is low. Honestly I wouldn't worry too much about bigotry there, sans Ralph Klein's pandering to his socially conservative rural based MLA's who thought the provincial goverment could actually stop Gay Marriage.

Interstingly enough there's a bigger problem with racism further east on the praries, and in smaller towns...but that's a story for another day. There's a decently sized immigrant population, I know a lot of people who aren't white who've lived there for YEARS without any extra problems. Don't forget all the ism's exist everywhere even in more socially liberal places like Toronto and Vancouver. And there is a decently sized Gay Community. About the mountains though, while they are near, and you can sort of see them from the city...the views (from the city) are nothing compared to what you'll see in British Columbia.

[faithnotgreed]

12. once again

v kid
i owe you thanks for giving me some specifics about these places

yes ive been hearing that alberta has the more growing economy
i do realize that its more important for me to be in a place that basically embraces what i care about and not just move anywhere in canada simply because i want to be in a place of sanity

better to be in a place like berkeley if thats the case but more a coming together of what i would like in places like vancouver
the wealth and image conscious side of things doesnt appeal to me there but like other cities you have the positive and the problems and you decide what outweighs everything because no where is perfection

another thing i would enjoy politically is a place that i know will stand up when/if confronted with bigotry or anti rights pushers or people trying to corporatize the city council etc
i understand conservatism in its classic definition so i dont mind that and often they would fight back too against government interference

since my interests and potential job is more of a niche overall then i think i will just focus on the larger cities or their smaller equivalents
i fought politically for much of my growing up and now that its taken a toll on my physical self then i really need to go to a place where there are like minds
i dont like to see it that way but living in places like chapel hill or washington dc then i understand much better that i am happy to live where you know youre not alone in your fight

thanks again truly for popping in here and giving me all these city summaries
you should write for the rough guide or something

[V. Kid]

13. thanks, back at you...

...I need to visit some of these other cities a bit more though if I want to become a writer for any type of guide :).

Oh one more thing about Calgary though, they do have Stephen Harper, and Jason Kenney two other annoying Conservatives so take that fwiw. If you want to be in a majority position with other genuine social liberals though, Vancouver, Victoria, Nelson, Toronto and Ontario would be better choices. While Canadians are far from perfect, if any one say committed a hate crime in Calgary, the good citizens of that city would still be as disgusted as a Vancouverite or Torontonian. It's just that their activist community is smaller per capita, because again the white-breadish thing. In fact if Alberta is an option for you Edmonton, Alberta isn't a horrible place. It has vicious Winters, but it's often refered to as "Redmonton" meaning it's the socially liberal oasis in conservative Alberta. It usually elects opposition members to the provincial legislature, being Liberals (left-liberals, not BC based right-wing Liberals) and NDP'ers. Oh one good thing about Edmonton weather though, it's more mild and not gross during the Summer. Also considering the latitutde it's at, the Summer nights last till almost 11pm at times! Also Alberta, at least Calgary and other areas close to the Rockies experience an effect known as a chinook wind during winter. That basically means that while it could be -10C/14F one day, the next it could be 10C/50F due to the warming effect. I only got a B- in geography though, so I can't explain the reasoning behind it ;).

The Wealth thing about Vancouver isn't a big problem though, there's a lot of wealth in the city yes, but it's nota lot diffrent from other cities. But again there's far more working and middle class folks, just trying to get by. We usually love our city, so we find a way...and really getting everyday items isn't that much more expensive in Vancouver than any other city. Insurance rates are pretty good, same with electricty. It's just the damned housing, but hopefully with a more progressive goverment at the provincial and federal level (eventually) and with a progressive municipal goverment now more affordable housing will be built. And some of the housing prices are just so ridiculous that literally no one can afford them, the prices simply aren't sustainable, so while there may be no obvious end in sight for them going up, up and up, they will evenetually go down.

[faithnotgreed]

15. ha

i dont care what you got in geography you are schooling me thats for sure

alberta does have some appeal and i will look into that a little more

i would like to follow up on ontario
you list "toronto and ontario" as among those that are a better fit
can i ask where in ontario

i have looked at ottawa because there were plenty of vegetarian/natural foods listings so when you say ontario i would just like to know what places besides toronto you might recommend

and thank you for explaining the cost of living in vancouver
i thought it would be the housing that makes it extra expensive
ive been fortunate here in dc with that and i when im brave enough ill go check out craigslist to get a real idea of just how good i have it

thank you friend
again only respond at your convenience
im sure you must have a job you need to give a bit of time to~

[V. Kid]

17. Well...

...I can't really give you more info on Ontario, mine is pretty basic. But there are lots of Ontarian DU'ers so they should be able to help more so. Actually I have time today, and the last few days...finally a few days off.

[faithnotgreed]

18. sure thing...

i will let you enjoy some of your vacation

and again i thank you for taking so much time to help
enjoy yourself

[fudge stripe cookays]

14. I can vouch for Calgary too.

My husband lived there for years (he's Canadian and I'm Texan), and while certainly Alberta is considered conservative it's NOTHING like what we have down here.

There is an art school there, and reprehensor and I have TONS of progressive friends who live there.

The economy is booming, the housing is much cheaper than what you'd find in BC or TO, and the chinooks are definitely a bonus of winter there. That makes it nicer than Ontario for me.

Also, Alberta is the sunniest province, which is nice. I have seasonal affective disorder, so I know I wouldn't completely lose it there. Even with the huge snowdrifts, I'll be OK if I can see the sun every few days.

reprehensor and I are heading there hopefully within the next year or so when we get more bills paid off, get our paperwork processed, and sell our house here. I can't wait to get out of Texas.

FSC

[faithnotgreed]

16. hi fsc

this is great information

basically i didnt know any of these specifics so its good to hear the details

i recall from lounge posts that you are dealing with some health issues
i am as well so i understand that you speak about all this from that direction

in that sense it sounds like it all comes together for you in calgary
someone on the board who lives in edmonton (i think) was complimentary of calgary but likened it to denver
but i like what you say about that their version of conservative is nothing like we know here
and being in texas you know what youre talking about~

im getting a clearer idea of calgary and its good to know
conservative in the more classic sense which many here have lost sight of (if they ever had it)

besides the reasons ive listed in numerous posts my partner and i are also interested in the eventual possibility of going to school and -for me - they are only located in vancouver and toronto
but more important are the schools my partner is interested in and she did mention there was one in calgary so i will ask more about that

youre so fortunate to be married to someone who is from there
that gives you a place and a wonderful reason right away

here are a few questions i have when you feel up to responding

may i ask if you both have to apply
and do you happen to know some specifics of application

for example if i apply (and lets say i am accepted) how long is the approval good for and what program are you applying through
i just assumed that if your husband is from there then there is only an application process for you but there is so much information to cover in this beginning process that i dont know the real details of application

hope youre doing well and i thank you for sharing this information with me
calgary does keep popping back in the conversation for some reason

[fudge stripe cookays]

19. No sweat!

Thanks for the well wishes by the way. That's very sweet!

We're going to be doing the spousal method (family class application). The forms for the different types of immigration are here, if you haven't seen them yet:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/index.html

I'm assuming you guys are both American, so if so I think you would both have to apply. Since reprehensor IS Canadian, ours is sort of a joint application. He would just be returning there as a citizen, since he didn't change his citizenship down here, only became a permanent resident.

There is a way of checking approximate wait times for apps; for family class I believe they are looking at 6 months right now (which is better than the 15 months I've heard in the past.)
(http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/times/process-in.html)

The app will probably include a medical exam, passport type photos, a police clearance, and tons of forms, obviously. For instance-- listing everywhere you've lived for the past 10-15 years (which is rough for me since I changed apartments every year for awhile!)

I'm not sure what your health issue is-- on the Yahoo board that I belong to for spousal immigration, I asked, and they told me that with MS I was OK being the spouse of a citizen, and the fact that I wasn't contagious. They did mention conditions like TB and AIDS probably being deal-breakers, since they could be spread, whereas MS could not.

And know that you may have to wait awhile to get on the Provincial health plan when you get up. You might want to look into travel insurance or something that could see you through for 3 months while you wait for eligibility. Each province will vary in its health plan, so this will vary from say, BC to Alberta, or Ontario to BC.

Here's the form for Alberta Health:
http://www.health.gov.ab.ca/ahcip/forms/102.pdf

One of the best things about Calgary is only being an hour or so away from Banff. And once you've driven through the mountains to get there, Lake Louise, the Kananaskis, or Jasper, you'll think the rednecks are a small price to pay!

Hope this helps a little!
:hi:
FSC

[faithnotgreed]

20. most definitely

that does help
esp the overview of the process and the link to wait times
ill check that out

my health situation is neither contagious nor fatal by any stretch
basically its chronic fatigue but im grateful i feel i have a handle on that and am doing the alternative medicine thing for it

thanks again for your time and information
when you have something specifically wonderful like this on the horizon it must make life a bit nicer when things get tough

best wishes to you both

[fudge stripe cookays]

21. You're welcome!

My only problem at this point is spurring reprehensor to action. He's very deliberate and hates change, and we just went through the reverse process to get him down here in 1999-2000.

He is in no hurry, and at times it can be downright infuriating. I just have to know when to hang back and when to gently push. :eyes:

I'd love to get excited, but I know better by now. It'll be a little while for us!

Take care!
FSC

[ironflange]

26. Another good word for Calgary

I live in Calgary, and despite the general political scene, I was just thinking that it's a pretty good place to live. A very interesting thing is that Calgarians have eleced a long series of Liberals as mayor (Klein was a Lib when elected), so the local politics are really quite easy to stomach. And let's reiterate the mountains, I can be right in them in less than 30 min from my house (which is walking distance from Spruce Meadows, #1 horse jumping facility on Earth). And Stampede Week is a blast, I think most local companies don't get much work done then.

One down side is the hospital situation, three hospitals plus a children's isn't enough for a city of nearly a million. However, one hospital is set to expand, the spiffy new Children's is nearly done, and construction will begin soon on a new one in the South. So it's not all bad.

[V. Kid]

22. Nelson...

...I found this page that has some info on the stats.

According to this the weather really isn't that bad during the winter...more on the mild side in a Canadian sense.

http://www.discovernelson.com/htdocs/statistics.html

Winter
Lows -4.9 c (23F)

Highs 0.6 c (33F)

Summer
Lows 11.1 c (51F)

Highs 26.6 c (79F)

[Mother Jones]

23. Hi again FNG

I probably should have read this thread in it's entirety before replying to your PM, it would have answered some of my questions!

If you want more specific details on neighborhoods in Toronto, I am happy to help you.

You should also keep in mind that our cost of living is higher....but then, so too is our standard of living. Best of luck to you, wherever you land!

[faithnotgreed]

24. of course thank you mother jones

for the pm
and hope i dont overwhelm you with my response and questions~!

[dutchdemocrat]

25. Gulf Islands

The Gulf Islands between Vancouver and Victoria would be perfect.

Especially Saltspring.

http://www.saltspringisland.org/

Alternative, creative communities pepper the islands which are stunning and it's only a ferry ride away.

[HEyHEY]

28. I lived on Gabriola for a bit, it was awesome

[justinsb]

27. I'm in Toronto

Alot depends on what, exactly, you are looking for - what line of work you are in etc., As an American who moved to Canada - I love this city, but it is not for everyone. So, before I go into my sales pitch - tell me what you are looking for. One thing the city doesn't need are more people who don't really want to be here.