(UK) Cannabis law change 'illogical'

[Turborama]

Source: BBC

Page last updated at 01:13 GMT, Monday, 26 January 2009

The reclassification of cannabis as a Class B drug has come into effect in England amid complaints by magistrates the new laws are "illogical".

The government said it went against its advisors to upgrade the drug because of worries of its affect on mental health.

Magistrates welcomed the reclassification but said planned fines for possessing small amounts undermined the more serious classification.

They said it sent the signal cannabis is not as bad as other Class B drugs.

Plans to introduce a "three strikes" system for cannabis possession start with a warning, then an £80 spot fine for a second offence.

Only when a third offence is committed, will the person be liable to arrest and prosecution.

=snip=

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith decided to reclassify cannabis despite an Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs' review - commissioned by Gordon Brown - saying it should remain Class C.

Ms Smith said stronger "skunk" varieties account for 80% of the cannabis seized on the streets, and that the drug is nearly three times stronger than in 1995.

Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman Chris Huhne said: "The move to Class B has got nothing to do with public health and education and everything to do with posturing on penalties.

"This farce would have been avoided had ministers heeded the advice of the experts on the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs."

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7850342.stm

[robbibaba]

1. Well that sucks.

What the hell is going on over there?

[nebenaube]

5. bad science...

it seems one of the big wigs in mental health there in Britian has a son who has schizophrenia and also happens to smoke weed so he assumes the weed caused the schizophrenia.

[girl gone mad]

20. Paternal age is more closely linked to schizophrenia.

Does he also want to jail older men for fathering children?

[happyslug]

25. But the closest link is Intelligence of the parents.

High Intelligence and Schizophrenia are connected, the real question is HOW, the same human gene has been connected TO BOTH. For mroe see the following:

http://micpohling.wordpress.com/2007/04/28/gene-intelligence-and-schizophrenia/

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:i9fg4L9fnUoJ:www.icherney.com/Teaching/Courses/Intelligence/Presentations/Schizophrenia.ppt+schizophrenia+Intelligence&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us

[Finite]

23. It was reduced to class C in order to free up police time

which it did, and estimated use of the drug also went down 15%. However now the government (who under Gordon B have become very puritan) want to look 'TOUGH ON DRUGS', and so raised it to class B, but with different rules.

All this will really achieve is more wasted police time, and the continued flow of profits into the pockets of organised crime.

Just as it has been for centuries.. You'd think someone would learn.

[Prophet 451]

35. Less puritan, more distraction

I wouldn't say that Broon has made Labour more puritan; more that, with the economy tanking, they need something to distract attention.

[Trogus]

26. Politics

Its politics pure and simple; they want to look tough and macho, and they thought the evidence would back them up, it didn't, but they had already made their minds up, funny the way politicians do that, getting the whole thing arseway's around; your meant to investigate, then make a decision, not make a decision, and then come up with the evidence, its pathetic, and illogical; you can get into less trouble for killing someone in a traffic incident. Also, id dearly love to know where all this "super" skunk is coming from. Soooo soooo angry right now! Grrrrrr

:rant:
:nuke:

[safeinOhio]

2. three times stronger

cost three times as much
so, people only smoke a third as much

What's so scary?

[sasquatch]

3. How does drug classification work in old Britannia

[Turborama]

8. UK Drug Classification

Cannabis was moved from B to C 5 years ago over there, and now they're moving it back up to B...




I just noticed the classifications are at the bottom of the linked news story. However, the government websites need updating, unless they've changed their mind again, lol...

Misuse of Drugs Act
This is the main piece of legislation covering drugs and categorises drugs as class A, B and C.
http://drugs.homeoffice.gov.uk/drugs-laws/misuse-of-drugs-act/

Class A, B and C drugs
The different kinds of illegal drugs are divided into three different categories, or classes. These classes (A, B and C) carry different levels of penalty for possession and dealing.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/drugs/drugs-law/Class-a-b-c/


Government drugs policy does not work, says report
· Rethink urged over danger of tobacco and alcohol
· Classification system has 'no rational basis at all'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2007/mar/09/drugsandalcohol.smoking

Edit: to add more info

[Prophet 451]

18. One other

Law enforcement also often use the unofficial term "Class D" to indicate substances which are age restricted but otherwise legal (i.e. booze, cigarettes and OTC painkillers). To my mind, that's where pot should be as well.

[LeftishBrit]

30. I agree

There is some evidence that smoking cannabis under the age of 18, and especially under the age of 15, increases the risk of developing schizophrenia later on - though it could also be that people with an existing tendency to develop schizophrenia are more likely to 'self-medicate' with cannabis. At any rate, the sensible answer would be to have strict age restrictions, not to make all cannabis use illegal.

IMO, cannabis should be legal (after the age of 18), taxed and regulated; and there should be strict laws about impaired driving (as with alcohol) and smoking it in enclosed public places (as with tobacco). Prohibition does far more harm than good.

At the very LEAST it should be made totally legal for medical purposes. In the UK, a doctor can prescribe heroin but not cannabis. It makes no sense.

[Finite]

33. Agreed, 100%

if politicians are serious about restricting young people's access to weed, they have to regulate the market. Anything else is just bluster.

[Prophet 451]

34. Fierce agreement

Treat it like any other adult pleasure: Age restricted, licensed for sale (although you could grow you own in the same way as many brew their own beer), a ban on driving under the influence and otherwise, leave it alone.

I don't smoke pot, haven't in years. My vice of choice is real ale. If my neighbour chooses a joint where I have a pint, is there any real difference in effect? Not really. They have mild mind altering effects for a short time and then you go about your day.

[Politicalboi]

4. I smoke a lot of grass

And the weed today doesn't have the kick it used too like the 70's and 80's. I have no idea what they are talking about. We used to have skunk weed you could stick on the wall. And Thai bud that would make me lose my way in my hometown. The first real joint I smoked I had resign on my lips and we had just lit the thing. No weed like that is found anywhere out there today in my world. I think it's a scare tactic. Maybe if President Obama legalizes it here they will see that this is just plain silly. And in the meantime Vodka is being sold throughout the world.

[Turborama]

7. "Thai bud that would make me lose my way in my hometown"

The mental picture made me laugh out loud! Thanks, for that.

Just found this from their "Independent Drug Monitoring Unit" that you might find interesting... http://www.idmu.co.uk/skunkfaq.htm">How potent is Cannabis in the UK?

[tama]

14. Dude,

smoking a lot since many decades ago - when there used to be thing called "memory" - can cause increased tolerance... ;)

[Fly by night]

21. It was probably the opium on the Thai stick that caused you to "lose your way"

If it was real Thai Stick, it would have been dipped in opium.

The British reclassification is a crock o' shit. Since we've been ignoring science and the recommendations of EVERY Presidential commission since Nixon to reclassify it here, they may have drawn their example from us.

[ixion]

6. "worries of its affect on mental health."

what a crock. get real. :eyes:

You know what's bad for your mental health? Getting thrown in jail for smoking a joint.

Fascist bastards.

[Turborama]

9. Very good point! N/T

[Prophet 451]

16. There's actually a small element of truth there

A study done a couple of years ago showed that if you have a mental illness or a predisposition to same, cannabis could act as a trigger.

Of course, so can booze, prescription drugs, medical incidents and any number of other things. Essentially, if you have a predisposition toward mental illness, anything that alters your perceptions can act as a trigger (this is one of the reasons I no longer smoke pot and drink very rarely). The majority, who don't have such a predispostion, suffer no ill effects.

[droidamus2]

10. Do drug warriors ever stop lying

That '3 times stronger' number since 1995 was absolutely made up out of thin air. Both the amount of increase and the date picked are totally arbitrary and have no basis in fact. The big advances in growing sinsemilla type pot were made from the mid- to late 70's and early 80's the THC content has not advanced much since then. Hydorponic and indoor growing allows growing high quality pot where the cops can't see it but you still get the same level of high quality pot as a good outside grow. 'Drug warriors' just make up BS to try and make the stupidity of their actions palatable to the general public.

[Trogus]

28. 'tree times my arse!

if you want to hear something funnier, some dopey mare of a politician came out with the claim that there were strains that were twenty times stronger! muppets (although perhaps they were referring to cannabis oil? which i dont know anything about really)

[Prophet 451]

37. Oil would be that much stronger

But cannabis oil is already Class A and very rarely seen anyway.

[minnesota_liberal]

11. I need new glasses

having read 'cannibals' at first glance.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slampoet]

13. Skunk today is not as powerful as the Hashish the Britons have been getting since 1712

[tama]

15. Hey, let's not

badmouth gardeners and their skills. Organic bud is today stronger than ever and comes in zillion "designed" varieties...

[slampoet]

32. But it is still not as powerful as hash from India.

and it never will be.

[Prophet 451]

17. *headdesk*

For a while there, I thought we were heading in the right direction. Naturally, the Liberals are right (full disclosure: I have been a member of the LibDems since I was old enough to vote); it's all about political posturing.

The actual evidence says pretty clearly that for the majority who have no predisposition toward mental illness, moderate pot use is fairly harmless (heavy pot use may be harmless as well but the most recent study didn't survey that). The only reason it's not entirely harmless is because of the British tendancy to mix our pot with tobacco. If you have a predisposition toward mental illness, you shouldn't smoke pot, that's whay the actual evidence says and that's probably good advice. But for the vast majority with no such predisposition, there's no real reason for pot to be illegal, let alone heavily punished. If drug laws were based entirely on evidence, pot would be treated exactly the same way as booze: Age restricted, licensed for sale (although you could grow your own in the same way as many brew their own beer) but otherwise legal. If my neighbour chooses to enjoy a joint where I choose a pint, it is none of my business and it should be none of the law's business.

[skooooo]

19. Who put Spock in charge? nt

[formercia]

22. Is this the same country that made a big chunk of their wealth

in the Opium trade?

Let's hear it for the royals who profited the most.

[pjt7]

24. UK financial shape is so bad

they should make everybody stop smoking weed for a few months & deal with their dire straits.

[formercia]

31. How can they afford to keep people in prison?

Community service would be more productive, or is it the revenue from fines the goal?

[Prophet 451]

36. That's complex

The fines barely cover admin costs in most cases, to be honest (UK police suffer from drowning in paperwork) and they can't really be jailed because we don't have anywhere to put them. We're rapidly running out of prison space and we can't build any more because every time someone tries, the locals scream "not in my back yard!" and they never get built. That's leaving aside that we already have roughly twenty thousand people locked up for cannabis possession alone.

I suspect the most likely intention here is pure politics. Firstly, Broon is wildly unpopular right now (for reasons which actually don't have much to do with him) and this measure will appeal to Little England (think small town hockey moms and NASCAR dads). Secondly, the economy is tanking so a distraction is needed.

[RadiationTherapy]

27. Keep these idiotic stories in the press.

It does more good for legalization than it does for trying to propagandize the population.

[Romulox]

29. So the UK takes a HUGE step backwards, and yet is still light-years ahead of the US.

I'm more embarrassed for us than them.