Anyone at the G20 protests today?

[B Whale]

Apart from the usual nut bags passed of fairly peacefully i thought.

However the police tactic of bottling quite innocent and peaceful demonstrators into a pen for the whole day is quite illegal. I saw a woman crying who had to pick her children up but the police wouldn't let her out no matter how much she pleaded.

(Also just heard a protestor dies today)

[T_i_B]

1. The tactic of penning in protestors...

...has been practiced for some time now. I remember it being used on an anti-war demo in Whitehall in October 2002 for instance. I think the police also used it to keep G8 protesters in Sheffield cooped up in Devonshire Green a few years ago as well. I remember witnessing that demo but for the most part I was stuck in a 2nd hand book shop right by the demo browsing pulp sci-fi books.

It's a technique that has been very successful in minimizing crowd problems for the police in the past.

[B Whale]

2. It may be successful for the police but

a perfect police force is anti-democratic. Part of their duties is to facilitate protest.

This tactic is illegal.

Also, saw them baton charge a sit down protest by some students. An italian woman was left unconcious. It was all pretty disgusting stuff

[T_i_B]

3. It's also worth remembering...

...that a large part of the police's job is to keep the protests from causing disruption to the general public.

[B Whale]

4. Creating a temporary prison pen

in the heart of London is pretty disruptive to the general public i would say (in addition to the members of the public trapped in the pen).

As i said most people simply wanted to get home and most were peaceful. The police are politically corrupt, they're not neutral and they have a certain view of protestors, peaceful or otherwise.

[T_i_B]

7. Er, no

The police are politically corrupt, they're not neutral and they have a certain view of protestors, peaceful or otherwise.

I have to say that in my experience that's rubbish. Most of them are more interested in collecting their overtime pay at the end of it.

Also, the tactic of containment was ruled to be legal in January.

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.com/pa/ld200809/ldjudgmt/jd090128/austin-1.htm

[B Whale]

9. The police and particularly the MET are simply

not politically neutral. Your experience obviously differs from mine but i might suggest that to think they are neutral is quite naive.

Ok, it was ruled legal in January, rape within marraige used to be legal, it was immoral, but it was still legal.

Do you honestly believe that this is acceptable in a democracy? I saw a young girl crying with humiliation because she had to urinate in the street as the police would not let her out of the pen they had created. I'm not sure what a decent society looks like to you, but i think this kind of thing in a democarcy is disgusting.

[T_i_B]

10. "rape within marriage used to be legal, it was immoral, but it was still legal"

That's quite a good example actually as that was made illegal in the same way that police containment tactics have been made legal, through the law courts. I think the case to look for in the case of marital rape is R vs R 1992 if I'm not mistaken.

Are such tactics acceptable in a democracy? Well they are used on a regular basis with football fans as well and they don't make the same sort of fuss and pallaver about it. The only question to be asked is about the length of time people were kept in the same place. Other then that it works and it beats police and protesters having running battles across London.

[B Whale]

11. They aren't used against football fans, that

is called a police escort, i've been in many and they are simply not the same. There is a purpose behind them, directing you to the ground, or away from the ground towards a train station etc. And going back to the 80s its widely accepted that they made things worse time and again. The old cliche from football fans is, "if you treat us like animals we'll behave like animals."

Anyway, i think you're confusing two seperate issues which is my major problem with this tactic.

"it beats police and protesters having running battles across London." Protestors don't fight running battles with the police, they protest and demonstrate, most are innocent, law abiding and peaceful, yet are criminalised and imprisoned on the streets for excercising their democratic rights.

If the police can't deal with a minority of idiots without resorting to mass temporary imprisonment of innocent people they are in a sorry state. Policing in this country is built on consensus policing, by treating innocent people like criminals (as with football fans) it antagonises the situation and creates violence. if someone tried to imprison me in a street i'd sure as hell try to break out.

Their tactics are criminalising protestors and political activists. They called organisors before the march to warn them that things would be very violent (in my book that's a threat), they wouldn't let people leave the kettle until they had been photographed and given their details over, this is on the back of news a few weeks ago that they have been building a (possibly illegal) database of political activists.

I understand your point, and i too support the police in pursuit of trouble makers and criminals at such events, but for me it all seems part of a very sinister pattern of criminalising and hampering a democratic right of innocent people by the police and as a democrat that makes me extremely uncomfortable as i think that is far more important than a few yobs smashing windows.

[D-Notice]

5. I was there but left quite early on.

Thankfully I managed to get out before the trouble started.

[B Whale]

6. There's a video on indymedia of the

police smashing up the climate camp. Quite disgusting behaviour.

Also, when the kettled everyone in at the bank of england they only let them go, one by one, dragging them out by the arms to take their name and addresses and photgraph them. This is for their illegal database they have been building contravening the human rights act. I think there's a test case going to court about it.

The police are so less subtle nowaday about their political beliefs. they simply don't believe in democracy.

[firefox28]

8. France's and Germany turn

for the protests.