"Tory madrasa" preaches radical message to would-be MPs

[non sociopath skin]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/06/tory-madrasa-young-britons-foundation

Comes as no surprise. Despite Eton Dave's weasel words about modernisation and caring conservatism, you don't have to read many conservative websites to get a feel for the affinity of grassroots Tories with the excesses of the American tea-bagging right.

The Skin

[muriel_volestrangler]

1. "The group's president, Daniel Hannan" - what a surprise

sounds like they're picking up where the Federation of Conservative Students left off.

[TheBigotBasher]

2. What the youth wings of the partis do is not especially relevant.

The fights between Torybear and Lib Dem youth make occasional amusing reading.

The youth wings are where the ideas come from. I have no problem with them.

This article does nothing to convince me against the need to remove Neo-Con Labour.

Even liberal Democrat amendments on the Mandleson DMCA Mark II bill have not changed my view.

In seats where Conservatives came second vote Conservative. In seats Liberal Democrats came second vote Liberal Democrat.

[non sociopath skin]

7. Voting LibDem (or Green) as an alternative I can understand ...

... but fulfilling "the need to remove Neo-Con Labour" by voting Neo-Con Tory? Don't think you'll get a lot of traction on that to the left of the Daily Mail ....

The Skin

[TheBigotBasher]

10. Funny you said that

http://www.libdemvoice.org/lord-tebbits-praise-for-nick-clegg-17532.html

Tebbit endorsing (well not quite) the Lib De tax policy.

[Dutch]

17. To be fair, voting Tory is an excellent alternative if you in fact want a Tory government.

Which has always pretty obviously been the case with the basher.

[TheBigotBasher]

21. Voting Lib Dem is a good way of getting a Lib Dem Government.

The only party I like on tax.

A LIb-Dem Government will not happen though.

Cameron's lot would indeed be better than the current mob in power.

[LeftishBrit]

23. Cameron's lot would be better than the current mob in power???

I could JUST about understand someone thinking that Cameron as an individual is better than Blair (personally I think they are almost identical twins, with Blair being more of a scary ideologue on some things, but Cameron being more stupid and incompetent). But (1) Blair has gone, and Brown is better - which is not saying that he's good; and (2) Cameron would have all his strings pulled by the right-wingers. To be frank, I slightly preferred John fucking Major to Blair as an *individual* (don't worry, I never came within 10 million miles of voting Tory!), but Major was controlled by the RW-ers rather than the other way round, and the result was disaster mixed with sleaze. The same would be at least as true for Cameron.

[TheBigotBasher]

24. Including Major and Currie.

Imagine the child that would have produced.

The scandals now are just blatant and no one even cares. The The Digital Economy bill was on music industry sites before it hit Parliament. That would of caused giant screams of outrage before, however I think as it was Mandleson there is a scandal overload with him. There have been so many that whatever is done no longer registers as newsworthy.

That bill itself is a disaster of a bill, but it will survive. I'm not overly impressed with the opposition to this bill either. The Lib/Con Lords amendment to the very disgusting clause 17 is a disgrace. Not as much of a disgrace as the original but it is still do you prefer to get shot in the head or heart.

Which is how I feel about this General Election anyway. I do not like any of the possible outcomes.

[T_i_B]

8. It's not just LibDem Youth who despise Torybear

Just about everyone who isn't a partisan rightwinger despises Torybear be they Labour, Lib Dem or independent of political party. My twitterfeed seems to be full of people bashing Torybear for being a nasty dishonest little shithead most days.

[TheBigotBasher]

3. Just to add

if one of those supposed seven are militant enough to push Blair to a War Crimes tribunal, even if only for their factional gain in the Party - the price is worth it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

4. Are you kidding? They *love* that Blair went to war - they love waterboarding

The only Tories who were against it were ones like Ken Clarke, who these guys probably despise more than Blair. And they wouldn't see 'factional gain' in going after a retired politician that most of their own party, and they themselves, agreed with on the topic.

These people are worse than Blair. They'd scrap the NHS, get people to arm themselves, they deny global warming, and they'd shoot protestors who are no danger to anyone.

These are far right nutters.

[TheBigotBasher]

5. Compulsory ID Cards.

1000 times worse than the "Poll Tax".

I would have Michael Howard over that.

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. I wouldn't get too hopeful about the Tories and ID cards if I were you

There must have been some reason behind David Davies resigning from the Tory front bench for 'civil liberties', and it could be that the Tories will turn out to say "now the money's been spent on the project, we'll use some of it anyway". The Labour position on whether they'll ever try to make them compulsory is confused too, for that matter: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8414969.stm

Look up the Conservative ID policy, and you find their page on it has gone, and disappeared from their list of 'causes' - old list first, then the up-to-date list:

End the Early Release of Prisoners
Fair Play on Women's Pay
Get Britain Working
Gordon Brown's Death Tax
Honest Food
ID Cards - Labour's Bad IDea
Keep Our Post Offices Open
Labour Chaos on Cuts
One World Conservatism
Protecting Britain's Pensioners
Rural Action
Save our Local Papers
Save the Great British Pub
Sign for Change
Stop Brown's NHS Cuts
Support Our Small Shops
The Maths Taskforce

Fair Play on Women's Pay
Get Britain Working
Gordon Brown's Death Tax
Keep Our Post Offices Open
Labour Chaos on Cuts
The Maths Taskforce
One World Conservatism
Protecting Britain's Pensioners
Save our Local Papers
Stop Brown's NHS Cuts
Support Our Small Shops

(http://66.102.9.132/search?q=cache:3z2chtHatRAJ:www.conservatives.com/Campaigns/ID_Cards_Labours_Bad_IDea.aspx+conservatives+%22id+cards%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=opera and http://www.conservatives.com/Campaigns.aspx

And these particular Conservatives are fans of waterboarding, so it's hard to see them as staunch upholders of liberty.

[TheBigotBasher]

9. Not that they stand a chance here

as this seat is a fight to the very end between a Lib Dem and Labour MP. Especially pleasing as the Labour MP is also quite useless.

Anyway not having been on to Conservatives.com since 2005ish I had a quick look see and I found that they were still committed to scrapping the stupid ID cards and much of the database state.


http://issuu.com/conservatives/docs/a_resilient_nation/24

Page 23 / 24

Topic 4.7.

I will add that I don't like that issu.com thing they are using - it manages to make .pdf look good. First time I have seen any site using that, I never wish to see it again and I hope it is as successful as Microsoft Bob.

[LeftishBrit]

11. If Howard were in office he would be doing the same!

They're no friends of civil liberties. Law 'n Order above all else is their thing.

[LeftishBrit]

12. What price?

Fighting the Afghanistan war ever more viciously?

Getting us into yet another war? (if people like these were in office right now, I REALLY wouldn't rule out the possibility of a Falklands rematch, for example)

The RW Tories voted *for* Blair's war.

Destroying and crushing the poor, the elderly, the sick and all who need services?

Twisting the knife into all who are vulnerable in any way?

Raising the glorious bankers to yet higher levels?

Remember Maggie Thatcher at all?

It's not even as though Blair was going to be PM again. ANYONE is better than the RW Tories (well, OK, the BNP aren't.)

[TheBigotBasher]

14. I can not see any justification for Labour staying power.

• ID cards
  
• The database state
  
• Restricting ultimate appellant rights by scrapping the Law Lords and Appeals to the House of Lords and replacing it with a much more heavily restricted "Supreme Court" because Labour kept losing cases in the House of Lords
  
• Lied to about the Iraq War - a war sold to US Congress by Blair.
  
• Wasting £billions on an NHS computer system that will now never be implemented.
  
• Racism openly encouraged in the Home Office and only subject to an investigation because of a whistle blower.
  
• There is less social mobility now than there was under Thatcher.
  
• Labour lied to students. They said that they opposed the Dearing report and would fight against it. That proposed loans or fees. Not both.
  
• The property price bubble Labour said in 1997 that they would take action to control, instead they further cut social housing building and sped up growth.
  
• Rights for private tenants even further eroded.
  
• Benefits for the poorest in society now a small fraction of their equivalent value under Thatcher. When Thatcher resigned Jack Ashley intervened to thank her for increasing disability benefits, years later aLabour Government passes ESA and then becomes afraid to implement their own policy.
  
• Tax credits - as system with overpayments an debt to the treasury built in.
  
• Conning pensioners and those on means tested benefits by bringing forward next years increase and then cutting it for next year.
  
• The stupid rules about photographing the police.
  
• No protests outside of Parliament and now that they are leaving office that ban is being lifted.
  
• A tax burden that has shifted to the poorest, the lowest paid single workers are still out of pocket because of the scrapping of the 10p tax band.
  
• Council Tax doubling
  
• Council funds stretched to breaking point because of continual increases in unfunded extra responsibilities.
  
• Public services so driven by performance indicator that they have forgotten public service.
  
• Education by performance indicator - resulting in Universities having to remedial lessons for A'Level students.
  
• The continual banning of things. Poppers, mushrooms, legal highs.
  
• The Digital Economy bill - a bill that was launched on Industry websites before it was even launched in Parliament. A bill that would give Mandleson unlimited powers over the net with the ability to delegate them to anyone without further recourse to Parliament. (Yes I am pissed off with the Lib Dem amendment to that as well)
  
• A Prime Minister that promoted the BNP, "British jobs for British workers".
  
• The only major Country in Europe to have allowed uncontrolled immigration, with the now revealed deliberate aim of reducing pay for the low skilled. A social experiment on the poor. So much so that a French company, sub contracting for a US company not only shipped workers from abroad, the workers lived on the ship.
  
• Collusion with torture.
  
  

I could add a lot lot more. Brown makes the worst excesses of the Thatcher years look good.

A Con/Lib, Conservative, Tory, Ultra Tory Government or a reborn Labour Party if no Party makes it and there is a second G/E - whoever - I doubt will do anything to correct much if any of the above. However the Party that did that deserves to be punished for it, otherwise all of those actions are given affirmation by the electorate.

Parties that screw up need to be punished. The Tories were punished for "Black Wednesday", even though the decision to pull out of the ERM restarted economic growth. Labour needs to be punished now.

Saying Remember Thatcher with regard to Cameron is a bit like saying of Blair remember Callaghan. Or look at Tebbit when talking of Ken Clarke. Cameron is an Etonian old style Tory and I would definitely prefer a Macmillan over Neo-Con Labour. There is no intellectual justification in screaming Thatcher at Cameron. If it was in reference to the 7, then they are 7 of how many? If they get in. We don't even know who they are.

[LeftishBrit]

16. Cameron is not Thatcher but he doesn't have the political skills or toughness of a Macmillan

He wouldn't be able to resist the RW-ers. (See the types described in the OP.)

At the very BEST, he would be just another Blair -same sort of shallow spin doctor. More likely, his government would drag us to the right. Bad enough at any time; disastrous in bad economic times when poverty and unemployment are already increasing

And Blair is no longer in power. Brown is far from great; but he is much better than either Blair *or* Cameron.

I am voting LibDem not Labour (I have not voted Labour since 1992); but if I were in a marginal constituency at risk of being taken by the Tories -then I would have to consider the moral of Hilaire Belloc's cautionary tale: "Always keep a hold of Nurse/ For fear of finding something worse!"

As regards ID cards and other anti-privacy measures, the best is to get a government without a big majority so that they'll be unlikely to implement anything hugely unpopular. And if Labour do get back, it will probably be by the skin of their teeth.

[TheBigotBasher]

15. My opinion better summed up

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8552603.stm

[non sociopath skin]

18. Good that you're enjoying the BBC as a news source while we have it, BB.

If enough people vote Tory, as you advocate, it's not likely to be around for much longer.

The Skin

[TheBigotBasher]

19. Remember Gilligan

and the castration of the BBC News programmes as a result of his accurate reporting?

David Kelly, the BBC's ability to challenge Ministers and in a way Lord Hutton were all victims of that.

[non sociopath skin]

22. And your pal Dave and his buddy Rupert will put a stop to that kind of thing, yes?

The Skin

[TheBigotBasher]

20. UKIP are a lot worse.

Farage is a nut (although he should not have been fined).

[fedsron2us]

13. Well they are the stupid party so you would expect them to be clueless.

As I said Thatcherite retreads and endless gurning until the date of the election.

Pickles is pretty much a natural at the latter