From Fenians to Financiers: James Connolly and the Irish Meltdown.

[Ken Burch]

http://www.rabble.ca/news/2010/12/fenians-financiers-james-connolly-and-irish-meltdown

A spectre is haunting Ireland -- the spectre of James Connolly.
Connolly was executed by a British firing squad for his role in Ireland's 1916 Easter Rising for home rule. Celebrated as a hero of Irish independence by political parties of both the left and right in Ireland, his socialism is all too conveniently overlooked.

It is vital, however, to consider it, for the Irish struggle is one that speaks to the challenges of independence, sovereignty and democratic freedom, both at that time and now. And it is significant for the people of Ireland and of all countries. What value is formal political independence if it is not backed up by economic control; if the real decisions of public policy are made in boardrooms and backrooms rather than main streets and parliaments?

For Connolly:
"If you remove the English army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organisation of the socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain. England would still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole army of commercial and individual institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs." (Socialism and Nationalism, p25)

[Ken Burch]

1. More from the article:

A who's who of global finance descended upon Dublin in November to "hoist their flags," from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the European Central Bank (ECB), to the Rothschild investment bank, Merrill, Barclays, JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs. These power brokers arrived to prevent "contagion" from the financial crisis in this small country of 4.5 million people by lending the Irish state billions of euros to recapitalize insolvent banks and shore up the country's finances.
Advertising

Unfortunately for the Irish, these actors came armed with the same ideological and policy tools that caused the crisis: a commitment to neoliberal growth models, open markets and the primacy of financial interests over those of labour, sovereignty or independence. Moreover, alternative ideas and paths are lacking from elites in Ireland's two major parties, Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, as both are proven devotees of this free-market fundamentalism. It was their desire, proclaimed loudly through the 1990s and 2000s, to be "closer to Boston than Berlin" in regulation and finance.
--------
While the IMF is asserts that its work pushing austerity in Ireland is ‘technical not political' the Irish public disagrees, and so do I. What could be more political than the socialization of bank debts and transfers of public wealth in to private hands?
Popular backlash
As the costs of propping up corrupt officials, developers and international bankers becomes increasingly unpalatable, politics in the Republic is shifting left; according to a Dec. 2 poll, Sinn Fein - "we ourselves" in Irish -- is two points higher than the ruling party Fianna Fáil. They won a historically unprecedented by-election seat in Donegal on Nov. 25 and their support in the south has doubled in the past month, from 8 per cent to 16 per cent. Political heavyweight Gerry Adams is giving up his seat in Westminster to run in the Republic's early 2011 election. These gains have opened up the possibility of a coalition with the Irish Labour Party in the New Year. This represents a colossal swing in post-independence Irish politics dominated by 60 years of rightist Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael.
---------

[Ken Burch]

2. A couple of songs about Connolly, as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqv9LpfHg8c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9cyOgNVbaM

[Nihil]

3. So Ireland's problems are still being blamed on the English?

No change there then ...
:eyes:

[Ken Burch]

4. In part on the British(and German) banking systems, not on "The English".

What is being said here is that you aren't really an independent country if someone else controls your economic system and international bankers can impose brutal austerity on your country.

Connolly was a socialist, and only became an Irish nationalist when it became clear that the UK, in his lifetime, could not become a place in which working people had a decent life.

[Nihil]

5. Not quite what was said in the OP then ...

>> For Connolly:
>> "If you remove the English army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin
>> Castle, unless you set about the organisation of the socialist Republic your
>> efforts would be in vain. England would still rule you.

I agree with the underlying message but disagree with the way in which it is
proposed ... specifically in blaming the "English" for the greed and corruption
of the Irish (and people in general).

[Ken Burch]

7. Why are you touchy about blaming "The English" anyway?

They're the only right-wing nationality among the peoples of Britain. It was only the English who wanted Thatcherism (the Scots, the Welsh, and all non-white Britons were always passionately anti-Thatcherite).

And remember, in Connolly's day(he was murdered by the British Army in 1916)a lot of the Irish used "The English" as a euphemism for the British.

You're hairsplitting here.

The Anglo-Saxons have never been a persecuted ethnicity in this world.

[Nihil]

11. Because throughout this thread you have been talking bollocks about "The English".

If you'd bothered to read my previous reply you'd have seen why I was "touchy":
>> I agree with the underlying message but disagree with the way in which it is
>> proposed ... specifically in blaming the "English" for the greed and corruption
>> of the Irish (and people in general).

No need for the crap about "only right-wing nationality", no need for the
crap about "murdered by the British Army" (he was taking a major part in
an armed rebellion) and as for your strawman about the Anglo-Saxons ...!

Never mind that I was agreeing with the thrust of your thread, just go and
have a nice day y'all.

[Ken Burch]

13. The original phrase about "the English" was Connolly's own quote.

You can't change other people's words.

And you need to understand that in Connolly's case, he was simply talking about the colonial oppression his country was held under at the time he wrote those words(the 26 counties of Southern Ireland didn't gain their partial independence until the 1920's and Connolly was murdered by the British Army in 1916.)

Perhaps I was a bit excessive, but how do you dismiss the fact that voters in England were the only voters in the UK that gave Margaret Thatcher victory during her three campaigns as leader of the Conservative Party? The Celtic regions of Britain always rejected her as did Britons of color. I'm partially of English descent myself, but this is historical fact. You should feel ashamed of it if you are, in fact, English or of English descent. I could have been less harsh about the way I said it, and I apologize for the tone.

The fact that Connolly mentioned "The English" wasn't the main point of the article, and you're serving no purpose by dwelling on that one small point.

[LeftishBrit]

12. It's not an English/non-English distinction.

It's much more of a North/South distinction. People in the North of England are every bit as anti-Tory and anti-Thatcherite as the Scots or the Welsh. People in the South East of England, outside London, tend to vote Tory. But this is a matter of class/money, not nationality. The South, especially the South East, is for the most part much more prosperous than the North, and better-off people are more likely to vote Conservative.

As regards the situation in Ireland, right-wing cost-cutting policies have certainly made a bad economic situation much worse. These have been imposed in part by the Irish banking community, and in part by the international spending-cuts fan clubs, especially the IMF.

[Ken Burch]

14. I am aware that voters in the North are more progressive.

And again, the only real reason that "The English" were referenced in the OP is that that was the phraseology James Connolly used in the quote.

It's disturbing that so many people are harping(so to speak)on that to the exclusion of everything else in the link.

[fedsron2us]

6. The Irish banks are not British owned

Their shares are not even traded in the City of London. For example the only English thing about Anglo Irish Bank is the first part of its name. The institution is dominated by the Irish political annd commercial elite

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo_Irish_Bank

The bailout conditions were set by the IMF and the ESFS. The ECB and the Eurozone members dominate the latter organisation not the UK which is not even a EURO member

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Financial_Stability_Facility

It is true that UK banks such as Lloyds HBOS and RBS have suffered huge losses lending into the crack up property boom that occurred in Ireland just like their Irish counterparts. However, the tab for their insanity has been dumped on the British tapayers not the people of Ireland. To see what real Irish people think about the calamity that has befallen their country you could do worse than read some of the discussions on the main Irish property forum http://www.thepropertypin.com/

[Ken Burch]

8. You're missing the point.

Connolly was talking about foreign economic domination. The fact that he referenced "The English" is beside the point and not worth dwelling upon.

And since the polls in Ireland show the electorate there(most of which, presumably, is made up or "real Irish people" despise and will never forgive Fianna Fail for eternally surrendering the country's to foreign capital. You can't do that and still be an independent country afterwards.

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. If referencign the English is beside the point, then why did you post this in the UK forum?

Would you like me to ask for it to be moved to GD, since you're now saying it doesn't belong here?

[Ken Burch]

10. I posted it in the UK forum because there isn't an Ireland forum

If you want it moved to GD, fine, whatever.

Can we please move on from this small point, now?

Christ!

It's disgusting that so many people obsessed on a triviality rather than the main point of the article.

[Ken Burch]

15. The "Irish" banks have no real connection with Ireland

Like all other financial institutions, the only nation they owe allegiance to is the Kingdom of Mammon.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

16. I accept Connolly's premise

His argument against capitalism still stands. While the capitalism of Connolly's day was dominated by the British Empire, today it is more or less US-led with Britain playing a minor yet contributory role.

Another factor is that Ireland has its own native haute bourgeoisie whose interests are aligned with global capital. Fianna and Fine Gael strongly represent the interests of global capital in Ireland. Global capital can only succeed with a pliable political class.

Connolly wasn't Anglophobic. He recognised that the same system oppressed both British and Irish workers. If anything he made an argument against Irish nationalists who based their ideology on reactionary social Catholicism and a vulgar Anglophobia.