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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 03:09 PM
Original message
Hey, I love the UK!
Edited on Wed Jun-08-05 03:23 PM by bobthedrummer
How's it going over there?
:loveya:
:hi:
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Kipling Donating Member (929 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's OK.
Blair's fucking us over left,right, and centre (maybe not that first one), but at least we've still got our tea.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. We are being governed by fascists, Kipling. RW Christian Zionists.
It's happened here in the US, a coup of sorts.
I'm gonna look at a map of the UK and find York.
I'm in Green Bay, Wisconsin.
:hi:
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tenshi816 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-09-05 05:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. York's in Yorkshire, but you probably already knew that.
In the north. Lovely place, I'm not too far away. Why York particularly?

http://www.deblog.co.uk/bushchimpmorph.jpt

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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Kipling's profile says he's from York. I'm ignorant of the location.
But I do have maps.:hi:
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tenshi816 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Ah, I see - I also see that I should proofread when I put links in
because the one in my previous post had a typo in it and didn't work! (Feeling very silly now) It was supposed to be this:



There, I feel ever so much better now.

BTW, I find York so much preferable to London. When people visit England, they really should make an effort to get around more because just visiting London really doesn't give an indication of what the country is like. JMO.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
6. Like all the boomers I went through the British Invasion launched by
The Beatles shortly after JFK's assassination. I was more of a Rolling Stones, John Mayall, Savoy Brown, Fleetwood Mac, Pink Floyd, Animals, Them, Faces, Brian Auger, Zombies, Yardbirds, Who fan meself:loveya:

I was drumming then in Junior High Band and had my own kit.

I became acculturated with African American music before I became aware of race, it was the Blues, R&B and Soul music that I heard in the homes of friends well, that is what drums are all about, that's what my influences are anyway.

By the time I was 15 I was going by train to Chicago and checking out the Blues for myself with a bandmate. It was cool.

So I understand the irony of US artists like Sonny Boy Williamson 2 or Howlin' Wolf being introduced to the majority of US kids through UK bands heavily influenced by the Blues in the mid 1960's.

Then there is Motown! And The Cranberries!
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bennywhale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. We also brought Gospel music to the US. It originates in the
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tjwmason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Thanks for posting that
It's absolutely fascinating.
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Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-14-05 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Fascinating!
Thanks ... I have been reading up on Scottish history. I traced my ancestors to Scotland who arrived in North Carolina during 1700's. I think they were in exile (banished from Scotland by English). I am trying to get a full story. Interesting that Gospel Music actually came from Scotland. It seems that there is a very strong influence of the Scots especially in the South. Here's another one that I found earlier.. that term "hillbillies & rednecks" came from Scotland!

I can't remember the link so here's some I copied from email to Mom.

"Hillbillies & Rednecks"

Many words commonly used in America today such as Hillbillies and Rednecks have their origins in our Scottish roots. While the following three terms are associated today with the American South and southern culture, their origins are distinctly Scottish and Ulster-Scottish (Scots-Irish), and date to the mass immigration of Scottish Lowland and Ulster Presbyterians to America during the 1700Õs.

HILLBILLY

The origin of this American nickname for mountain folk in the Ozarks and in Appalachia comes from Ulster. Ulster-Scottish (The often incorrectly labeled ÒScots-IrishÓ) settlers in the hill-country of Appalachia brought their traditional music with them to the new world, and many of their songs and ballads dealt with William, Prince of Orange, who defeated the Catholic King James II of the Stuart family at the Battle of the Boyne, Ireland in 1690.

William of Orange

The signing of the National Covenant, Greyfriar's Kirkyard, 1638
Supporters of King William were known as ÒOrangemenÓ and "Billy Boys" and their North American counterparts were soon referred to as "hill-billies". It is interesting to note that a traditional song of the Glasgow Rangers football club today begins with the line, "Hurrah! Hurrah! We are the Billy Boys!" and shares its tune with the famous American Civil War song, "Marching Through Georgia".ÊÊ

Stories abound of American National Guard units from Southern states being met upon disembarking in Britain during the First and Second World Wars with the tune, much to their displeasure! One of these storiesÊcomes fromÊColonel Ward Schrantz,Êa notedÊ historian, Carthage Missouri native, and veteran of the Mexican Border Campaign, as well as the First and Second World Wars, documented a story where the US Army's 30th Division, made up of National Guard units from Georgia, North and South Carolina and Tennessee arrived in the United KingdomÉÓa waiting British band broke into welcoming American music, and the soldiery, even the 118th Field Artillery and the 105 Medical Battalion from Georgia, broke into laughter.
Ê
The excellence of intent and the ignorance of the origins of the American music being equally obvious. The welcoming tune was ÒMarching Through Georgia.Ó

REDNECK

The origins of this term are Scottish and refer to supporters of the National Covenant and The Solemn League and Covenant, or "Covenanters", largely Lowland Presbyterians, many of whom would flee Scotland for Ulster (Northern Ireland) during persecutions by the British Crown. The Covenanters of 1638 and 1641 signed the documents that stated that Scotland desired the Presbyterian form of church government and would not accept the Church of England as its official state church.

Many Covenanters signed in their own blood and wore red pieces of cloth around their necks as distinctive insignia; hence the term "Red neck", which became slang for a Scottish dissenter*. One Scottish immigrant, interviewed by the author, remembered a Presbyterian minister, one Dr. Coulter, in Glasgow in the 1940's wearing a red clerical collar -- is this symbolic of the "rednecks"?

Since many Ulster-Scottish settlers in America (especially the South) were Presbyterian, the term was applied to them, and then, later, their Southern descendants. One of the earliest examples of its use comes from 1830, when an author noted that "red-neck" was a "name bestowed upon the Presbyterians." It makes you wonder if the originators of the ever-present "redneck" joke are aware of the termÕs origins?


Fischer, David Hackett. AlbionÕs Seed: Four British Folkways in America. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1989.

McWhiney, Grady. Cracker Culture: Celtic Ways in the Old South. Tuscaloosa: University of Alabama Press, 1988.

Personal Interview, Mr. Bill Carr, Ayrshire native and member, Celtic Society of the Ozarks, January 2001.


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bennywhale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-15-05 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. If it was 1700s they were more likely to have been banned from Scotland
by the Scottish.

The song and tune you refer to ia sang throughout England and Scotland at football matches my own team included, by those clubs who were originally protestant. A distinction which only perserveres today between Celtic and Rangers.

The term Scots-Irish is actually more accurate than you think. Although i know what you're getting distinguishing between Ulster and Irealnd, all "Scots" (highland) came originally from Ireland. The lowland Scots are Angle in origin. Hence no 'Scots for the Scotish' independence cry, as there is no Scottish race. (The prominent ginger hair being a feature of ancient Britons)

In fact the lowland Scots along the border with England had more loyalty to their English counterparts across the border in Northumberland than they did to Scotland. These were known as 'Border Reivers'. There were more English Reivers but again their loyalty lay with family and clan, and if that crossed (artificial) borders then so be it. They conidered themselves border reivers first and foremost.

A nice bit of trivia for you to drop into conversation. The word bereaved originates from the border reivers. A term used to describe a visit to a village by a riding pack of Reivers, as they would steal and kill. "That villaged is bereaved."

'Blackmail' and 'protection racket' also originate from these English and Scottish families.

There is at tale from the "Battle of Otterburn" when Reivers from both sides of the border had been recruited to fight for their respective countries. One night they left their camps met with eachother, and jointly robbed the English and Scottish camps before riding off to count their loot while the two countries engaged in battle.
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Thanks for that!
One branch of my family came from the Borders and was a fairly common
Reiver clan name (though no definite proof found so far).

I love trivia like that.
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bennywhale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Scottish or English Reiver?
Edited on Thu Jun-16-05 05:45 AM by bennywhale
If you want to find out more i suggest.
"The Steel Bonnets: the story of the Anglo-Scottishh Border Reivers"
by
George MacDonald Fraser.

Its a fantastic read. I've traced my family back to a reiving clan, and even (as far as is possible that far back) to a specific area of Northumberland. From this point i've been fascinated by the Reivers and have read as much as possible.

The point i like to take from the reiving families is their internationalism. they couldn't give a toss about their respective rulers, either English or Scottish, they were loyal to eachother across the border. (They weren't particularly nice people however)

"If Jesus Christ were emongest them,
they would deceave him,
if he woulde heere, trust and followe theire wicked councells."

Richard Fenwick (1597)
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. English (we believe)
My brother did the work - he couldn't say for sure but believed it to
be the case. On the other hand, there are Scottish links as well so
it's anyone's guess ... maybe it's the very "internationalism" that you
mention that confuses the trail ...

Enjoyed the Reiver display/gallery in Hexham museum (in the old jail
building) when up there a few years ago - the kids found it fascinating!
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. I second that recommendation - an excellent book
I have one ancestry line going up to one of the Scottish border reiver families.
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Kipling Donating Member (929 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Ever get any odd urges?
Say, burning down your neighbourhood, raping the women, enslaving the boys, and burning the men alive?
At the very least, ever leave your supermarket trolley at the carpark instead of taking it back to the entrance?
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. No ... but now you come to mention it ...
... still no! :-)

Anyway, you've got it wrong: you burn down the next village, not your
own neighbourhood ... or so I hear ...

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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Plus you need somewhere to stash the loot
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SweetLeftFoot Donating Member (905 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-22-05 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Cranberries
Are actually Irish - from Limerick ... Stab City ... If I recall correctly.
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