Bombing conspiracy theories.

[Taxloss]

Can I just say that I am really, really tired of them? I'm also tired of being characterised as some sort of unquestioning dolt for not responding "OMFG!" every time one comes up.

For the record, these incidents were NOT masterminded by Karl Rove, and I make no apology for jumping the inquiry on that score.

[SteppingRazor]

1. But....but...but

Then how do you explain Giuliani planting the bombs, huh? huh?

[Taxloss]

2. Probably stress.

He needs a lie down.

You know how it is, you're under a lot of pressure, and you think "I know, I'll bomb a foreign capital".

[Anarcho-Socialist]

4. Natalie Portman was in London at the time of the bombings

She's working for Rove planting bombs! It's to divert attention from things happening in DC!

Portman is the terrorist! MIHOP! Don't believe the msm!

[Anarcho-Socialist]

3. The whole point of the U.K.

is apparently for our government to shoot us and bomb us just to divert attention away from Bush, Rove or Iraq. Yes, that's all we're good for.

Could GD be lying to me? :D

[Taxloss]

5. I'm not sure if it's lying.

It's certainly gibbering.

[Spider Jerusalem]

6. Yeah, I can't blame you.

There's no reason at all to assume that it's anything more than it looks like. It's unfortunate that some people seem to be convinced that the evil power and unholy reach of the US government extends to motivating terrorists in the UK AND controlling the response of UK security services.

That was one of the reasons I came to this forum to discuss the incidents, actually...save for a certain unfortunate incident, it's been relatively free of any of the bizarre speculation on that score we've seen in the other areas of DU.

[evermind]

7. "There was no conspiracy! They all acted alone!"

Sorry, I do know what you mean... but either way you're faced with a conspiracy (Al Qaeda, or Rove & co) so any theory of the bombing is really a conspiracy theory, since it's a theory seeking to explain what is undeniably a conspiracy...

But, I DO know what you mean.. and I agree it's very, shall I say "weak thinking"? to say these incidents are an attempt to stop people talking about the Plame business.

Neither do I buy any ?IHOP scenario on the scale of the atrocities we've seen. I wouldn't put it past British intel to order the odd assassination here and there, in a discreet, deniable and targetted way, but this is just random killing.

But neither of those two views stop me thinking it's right to question and scrutinise the emerging official version of events. There've been too many police and intelligence fuckups with respect to anti-terrorist operations in this country to just lap up whatever we're told, imho.

[Guy_Montag]

8. I worked for the govt. for a few years...

nothing sinister, just a research organisation, but enough to know I would vote for cock up over conspiracy every time.

After a cock up everyone's covering their back, people say things that they don't mean, just to avoid attention. The person with the slopiest shoulders wins the day.

This is why (as I've tried to explain to others on this board) the police keep quiet until they know the facts. Then they make a statement, because:

suppose the policeman who shot the guy today, did so with due cause, he's going to be covering his back as best he can, so you're not going to get much of use out of him while he's worried that he's just shot someone & he might lose his job, livlihood, family etc. Calm him down, find oout the facts then make a statement based on reality, rather than having to backtrack later.

I've seen people behave like this & all they've done is spent too much money on the wrong thing, let alone killed anyone.

[evermind]

11. *Every* time?

The most sensitive police inquiry ever undertaken in Northern Ireland was sabotaged by British soldiers themselves who burnt down the inquiry's offices, alleges Martin Ingram, a former army intelligence officer. The policeman in charge of that inquiry was Sir John Stevens, now Metropolitan police commissioner. He has also let it be known privately that he strongly suspects arson, and I can now shed more light on this extraordinary affair.

Back in January 1990, Sir John was deputy chief constable of Cambridgeshire. On the night of the fire his officers were preparing to arrest Brian Nelson, a full-time salaried agent in a covert military intelligence group called the Force Research Unit. Nelson had been helping loyalist death squads to assassinate suspected IRA terrorists.

Yet how has the present defence secretary responded to Mr Ingram's revelations? Instead of investigating his message, Geoff Hoon seems to want to shoot the messenger by threatening Ingram with official secrets act charges and refusing to lift an injunction stopping him from revealing further details. Apparently Mr Hoon cannot identify any "public interest which demands publication of such material".

Admittedly the evidence from Mr Ingram - a pseudonym - is hearsay. He says he saw two members of the army's "covert means of entry" unit in a bar used exclusively by the Intelligence Corps at Thiepval barracks in Northern Ireland. In this intimate atmosphere, there was some slack talk. Ingram and colleagues seated round his table were told the two soldiers had been brought over from the Army's special intelligence wing at Ashford in England to destroy Stevens's offices in the heavily guarded police authority's premises outside Belfast. Sir John and his team have suspected such arson for 10 years.

If you read the rest of the article, at http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,212152,00.html , it's clear that, at the very least, the target of Stevens' investigation, Brian Nelson, was directing assassinations by loyalist paramilitaries while in the pay of the British Army (FRU). His code number was 6173.

One army file says: "6137's appointment enables him to make sure that sectarian killings are not carried out but that proper targeting of (P)IRA members takes place prior to any shootings."

Another says: "6137 is in a position to see that correct targeting is carried out and that sectarian murders are avoided."

Then on the eve of Nelson's arrest, the very office in the very police station which houses the investigation's files catches fire, the fire alarm fails when an officer attempts to activate it, and then when she tries to phone the fire brigade, the phone is down...

A simple cock up? Really?

[beam me up scottie]

9. How conveeeeeeeeeeeenient...

IMO, it's mental masturbation and it can either be a hobby or a religion depending on the level of paranoia.

There is a difference between conspiracy theorists (CT's) and paranoid conspiracy theorists (PCT's).

The PCT's are the ones who claim that anyone who doesn't buy into their theory is either "with THEM" or too stupid to realize what is going on.

You either take their word for it or you're a supporter of the BFEE and/or Illuminati.

I've decided that instead of arguing with them, my standard reply will be either "How conveeeeeeeeeenient" or "A coincidence? I think not."

[moggie]

17. You're right about it being a hobby with some

That's the kind who really piss me off. If you want to build implausible theories about Area 51 or faked moon landings because they're simply more exciting than mundane reality, go ahead and have your fun (but don't get upset when you're regarded as a loon). But people are dying here, real people, and it's raw and personal. It's not a suitable topic for you to play with for thrills.

This doesn't mean that I always believe the official version of events, of course. But maintaining a healthy distrust of those in power doesn't necessarily require always picking the most twisted and cinematic explanation for everything.

[beam me up scottie]

18. That's exactly how I feel.

It is ignorant and disrespectful to our friends in the UK to be gleefully discussing PCT's without a thought to how this may be affecting others.

There was actually a thread that asked if people were "digging this", as if the London attacks were a shiny new toy.

And you're right, I don't think anybody here believe that governments don't lie to their citizens but insinuating that we are sheep and believe everything we're told is insulting and disingenuous.

[Mr Creosote]

10. What are you - a fundie, a repug or a neo-con?

It is clear these attacks were designed to
a) allow the Patriot Act to pass OR
b) divert attention from Karl Rove OR
c) throw up a smokescreen because Dubya got his man-breasts caught in a mangle on Wednesday

whichever of the above is true they were clearly masterminded by Giuliani acting under direct orders from the White House / 10 Downing Street / Netanyahoo

[non sociopath skin]

14. Be careful, Mr. C....

... I was zapped for jokingly suggesting that an anti-Brit flamer was in the pay of the Repugs!

The Skin

[wli]

12. as far as MIHOP goes

It's more a question of how the story comes out. Addled, confused, and contradictory news reports, suppressed investigations, and "hype" that trumps it up to more than a criminal act pretty much implicate the government. P2/Gladio teaches us that the governments are pulling these tricks to shift the political climate to the right, so when there is "spin" or "hype" and some coverup activity, MIHOP is my default assumption.

This is clearly different from conviction in a court of law. It's more like being a suspect than being "convicted."

And it's precisely the distrust these bastards deserve. They lie about the reasons for going to war, they lie in smear campaigns against each other, they blow up and kill people for the sake of politics (verified in Italy), and the truth of anything truly suspicious is never, ever allowed to come out (e.g. JFK and Aldo Moro assassinations, 9/11). So my "primary suspect" for a terrorist act is no Muslim terrorist mujahadeen. It's the government. Every time.

[mr blur]

13. Thanks for that, it's been really pissing me off too.

Before they'd finished digging bodies out of the tube there were far too many people jumping in to claim that Blair was behind it, or Bush was behind it as if Blair was as dumb or as mad as the average American politician seems to be. Hey, the police identified the killers? - obviously some kind of cover up to protect Blair or Bush. The US can't find Osama in four years? - obviously every other security force in the world can't do its job either, so it must be a cover up. Give it a rest.

[T_i_B]

15. People come onto DU with well established prejudices

and all too often they just try and distort whatever the facts are to try and fit these prejudices be it anti-Bush/anti-Blair/anti-Christian/anti-Business and so on.

But at the moment it's just daft with people trying to blame any group they hate as a gut reaction without even so much as taking a glance at the facts.

[demobrit]

16. So long as the D,U`s rules are followed and respected

So long as the D.U`s rules are followed and respected, members should be able to air their views without being shouted down , thats what democracy is all about .

[mr blur]

19. Absolutely right. And of course others

should be allowed to complain about them - thats what democracy is all about, too.

[Pallas180]

20. Yanks' humor is very often sarcastic you know - so I thought you all

would enjoy this from another DU'er's post (re: conspiracy theories)

Sat Jul-23-05 07:37 PM

3. No, but Bush apparently works for bin Laden...
...because he's accomplished almost every one of bin Ladens goals, and not caught the fucker to boot.

[Pallas180]

21. And this is my personal favorite...we have some really fine computer

artists on DU.

[Mr Creosote]

22. But surely that's just true?

The only question is whether Bin Laden's best recruiting sergeant is doing it for love, or whether he is actually on the payroll?

[Pallas180]

23. Considering the following words I leave you to your own conclusions:

"
"Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful. This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government."

-- Henry Kissinger speaking at Evian, France, May 21, 1992 Bilderburg meeting. Unbeknownst to Kissinger, his speech was taped by a Swiss delegate to the meeting.

[Pallas180]

24. AND

Quote from David Rockefeller ,Internationalist billionaire, CFR kingpin, founder of the Trilateralist Commission, World Order Godfather
Date:June 1991 Baden, Germany
Source:Bilderberger Meeting, Baden, Germany

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time
Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended
our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost
forty years."

"It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world
if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years.
But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a
world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite
and world bankers is surely preferable to the national
auto-determination practiced in past centuries."

[muriel_volestrangler]

26. Does anyone know a context for this quote?

I've seen it several times, but I think it always starts at the 'today ...'. I'd love to know what he said before and after. So far, a quick Google search has found nothing.

Anyone know?

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

27. I'm 99% certain

that it's made up.

The UN taking over America is exactly the nutttiness that the far-right poo their pants over & the quote is just too perfect for them.

[Pallas180]

47. Monkey, sorry to disappoint you but

his quotation was from 1992 when they were thinking of ways to
institute a police state - Kissinger was brought to politics in the late 1940's , early 1950's by David Rockefeller, and as a matter of fact so was Colin Powell. They both worked for Rockefeller as you might say "private tutors".

David and Nelson Rockefeller also brought Leo Strauss, the father of the Neocon movement, over to America from Germany as a professor at the University of Chicago , where every far right winger including Wolfowitz and Perle has emerged from the slime into US govt. These are the people who made the perverted foreign policy of the U.S. and are still making it.

With this "tutorage" Rockefeller former the Trilateral commission in th 70's of which they are members with Zbrinski (sp)and Pappy Bush. If you follow American foreign policy these are the people who made it US foreign policy and made Americans hated around the World. Bush the pappy used to call it "The New World Order" which evolved into
PNAC currently. Lest you forget Pappy Bush's father was a Nazi supporter and would have beeen prosecuted had FDR lived. He didn't and this Nazi wormed his way into the Senate...and stuck us with the rest of his fascist leaning family.

I may not understand your British politics - but I do know the history of these slime and how these fascists got control of this country.

So much for your conspiracy tin foil hat accusation, dear.

[beam me up scottie]

28. You most likely never will.

Many doubt that this speech was ever made at all.
Most who cite the quote believe in the Bilderberg conspiracy theory.

Kissinger's speech was supposedly taped and smuggled out of the 1992 annual meeting by a swiss delegate.

[evermind]

29. Not that one, but here's a similar quote (with context included :)

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

(... Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg trials, according to: http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.htm )

And, just in case anyone should think it, I do not suppose 9/11 or 7/7 are sponsored by the US/UK governments (in any permutation). However, I do not believe those governments are blind to the opportunities offered them, either.

[Pallas180]

45. Muriel, google Kissinger Quotations & David Rockefeller Quotations,

many of the quotations are made at Bilderburg meetings or Trilateral
meetings.

The hubris of these monsters is incredible.

[muriel_volestrangler]

71. I did, and found the same quotation about 40 times

always starting "Today ..." with no context. I can't even find the name of the Swiss delegate who apparently recorded the sentences. Anytime I see something that is supposedly the admission to how someone wants to take over the world (in this case the United Nations), I want to know if it's been quoted out of context. You'd think, if it was such a revealing speech, the whole thing would have been publicised. Without what preceeded and followed it, I suspect it's just something the Timothy McVeigh's of this world have fallen for, thinking it proves the UN is an Evil Conspiracy Against God-Fearing American Gun-Owning Patriots. I also suspect there's some bastard who makes money off the McVeighs, and doesn't give a shit that he's manipulating them into fear and terror, where they're a danger to both themselves and the rest of us.

[fedsron2us]

25. You do not have to be a conspiracy nut

to realize that most of the current Islamic terror infrastructure throughout the world would not have come into existence if the US government had not supplied so much money, weapons and training to Muslim radicals fighting the former Soviet Union in Afghanistan during the 1980's. Much of what has happened since that date can be traced back to that time.

Those who think governments would never let terrorists deliberately kill innocent civilians in order to further their long term interests ought to read a few studies of how intelligence organisations penetrate and destroy such groups. Perhaps the classic case was Yevno Azev the leader of the revolutionary Terror Brigades in Russia during the early years of the 20th century who organised many bombings and assassinations. It was subsequently revealed that he had always been an agent of the Okhrana, the Czarist secret police. Interestingly, one of his pet tactics for spiking his comrades operations was to ensure that their bombs sometimes failed to go off.

http://www.cia.gov/csi/kent_csi/docs/v11i4a07p_0002.htm
http://lark.phoblacht.net/mickhall18jul.html

edit for links

[ikri]

30. It also leads to

The hopeless situation we're in today:-

Many of the former mujahideen who went on to become Al Qaeda already believe that they are responsible for the fall of Communism. If the UK responds to the London bombings by pulling out of Iraq they're going to believe that they're responsible for beating the UK out of Iraq too.

If the UK can't persuade more nations (hopefully Islamic nations) to get involved in Iraq as a UN peacekeeper force then we're screwed. Can't pull out, can't stay put. Though of course that won't happen until the US has sucked all the oil out of the ground.

As to the conspiracy theories, even the one today about "doctored cctv images" all I can say is: :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

[Pert_UK]

31. For what it's worth, I agree but am also tired of the "cop bashing"...

To be honest, shocked and annoyed that so many supposedly "intelligent" people just assume that all police (in the US and UK) are bloodthirsty, fascist morons.

There certainly are some bad apples in the UK and the US police forces, but far too many people on DU are happy to make offensive remarks about policemen and women every time something goes wrong.

It strikes me that the police are damned if they do and damned if they don't here on DU.

I'm not saying that all cops are 100% perfect, and I realise that mistakes do happen. I am saying that it is hugely ungrateful, ignorant and just plain wrong to believe that the vast majority of policemen and women aren't thoroughly decent human beings who contribute ENORMOUSLY to our everyday safety and security.

I just can't figure out why so many people are just blanket "anti-cop" - it's almost like an acceptable form of discrimination.

[Mr Creosote]

33. Somewhere on here

I just found a link saying that it wasn't the police at all. It was Scotland Yard.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

38. "it wasn't the police at all. It was Scotland Yard"

:rofl: I saw that one too.

[Mr Creosote]

42. I can see why you are laughing

but I just thought it was unpleasant.

[bennywhale]

48. I'M NOT ANTI-POLICE I'M JUST A POLICE SCEPTIC. The way

i judge it is that the police are the armed wing of the state. They are the ones who have the monopoly on the legitimate use of violence and murder over British citizens.

They are also our servants and we pay them.

Depending on how you judge yourself (citizen or subject) and how you judge the state (master or servant) i think will determine to some extent how the police are judged. (i'm not talking about you personally.)

Therefore i believe the police should be held accountable and scrutinised intensely

[Pert_UK]

69. I agree, but....

the police ARE held accountable and have you SEEN the amount of scrutiny going on at the moment?

Too many people on here just assume that the police are trigger-happy thugs - in the UK, generally they aren't.

Scepticism is good.

Assumption is just plain wrong.

[bennywhale]

70. With my experience of the police i doubt very much whether

anyone will be held properly accountable. There is media scrutiny yes, but no-one will ever know what really happened.

The police have far too much power over themselves and over politics. Just look at the refusal to work over the officers who got suspended for killing someone carrying a chairleg in a bag.

It is illegal for them to strike for a good reason yet they threatened it.

The chief police will either back his officers or find a scapegoat.

No-one will be held responsible for this negligence. The police spread the myth that they are knowledgable and skilled and we spread the myth that they are the best police in the world. But it is exactly that, a myth.

There is no REAL scrutiny, and unfortunately the police have been found to be since the 70s (not all but still on mass) corrupt, racist and incompetent.

[Benbow]

50. Agreed - has the US apologised yet for killing Italian agent Calipari

- thought not - so DUers would be advised to take the beam out of their own eye before attempting to remove the speck of dust from the London Eye.

Let me refresh your memories:

March 22, 2005
High-level European intelligence sources report that the 51-year old slain Italian SISMI military intelligence agent, Dr. Nicola Calipari, killed by U.S. sharpshooters while accompanying the freed Italian hostage—Il Manifesto journalist Giuliana Sgrena—to Baghdad International Airport, was a prized target of opportunity for American assassins because of his knowledge about past Republican White House ties to Saddam Hussein's nuclear program.

Calipari was also reportedly privy to information about illegal U.S. covert operations in Iraq from his sources within the bloc of Iraqi resistance fighters led by former Republican Guards. Moreover, European intelligence sources report that Calipari was not the first Italian intelligence agent with expertise on Iraq to be killed by U.S. covert "wet affairs" operatives.

In 1989, the former Italian military attaché in Baghdad, Air Force Colonel Giuseppe Schiavo, was found shot to death in his home in Turin. Police ruled the death a suicide, however, Schiavo's diplomatic and military colleagues in Baghdad claim that Colonel Schiavo had stumbled across critical evidence of a complicated scheme by the George H. W. Bush administration, the CIA, Italian businessmen and government officials, U.S. auditors, Iraqi diplomats, spies, and central bankers, British and Italian intelligence agents, and Saudi bankrollers to finance Saddam Hussein's NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical) weapons program through U.S.-government-backed credits provided by Atlanta's Banca Nazionale del Lavoro (BNL). Schiavo was killed before Italian magistrates could question him about his knowledge of the Iraqi weapons affair. One colleague of Schiavo in Baghdad called him a professional and not someone who would kill himself. "He was taken out because of what he knew," claimed the colleague.

<snip>

Schiavo and Calipari were both experienced Iraq intelligence assets. But they both knew that the George H. W. Bush administration was heavily involved in propping up Saddam Hussein's government with intelligence, components for poison gas such as that used by Saddam against Kurds in Halabja, anthrax and other bio-toxins, and nuclear weapons production components such as krytrons and centrifuges. U.S. government-backed BNL loans were also used by Iran to procure military weapons and nuclear components.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/032205Madsen/032205madsen.html

[Woody Box]

32. Not the "conspiracy" club again!

:boring:

You want to hear real conspiracy theories? Take these statements from investigators:

"We think it's possible they were told that when they pressed buttons to set off timers they'd have a short time to abandon the bombs and get away before the blast. Instead, the bombs exploded immediately." (Mirror, July 16th)

According to the paper, one police hypothesis is that the bombers were tricked by a "master" who told them they would have time to escape -- when in fact the devices were set to go off immediately. (Telegraph, July 17th)

Does these two theories make sense? Is there any better regarding the circumstance that the guys paid for parking and return tickets?

Two and a half weeks now since 7/7, and Scotland Yard still doesn't know if the attacks were carried out by suiciders or remote control.

So what's the official story now?

http://www.team8plus.org/forum_viewtopic.php?9.579

[ikri]

34. Note the Conditions

"We think it's possible"

"one police hypothesis"

They're just ideas to work from, and as far as I'm aware the "official story" is still - 4 bombs exploded in London killing 50+ people. As the investigation goes on we will undoubtedly hear different lines of investigation from the police.

Just because there are different lines of inquiry doesn't mean that there's a conspiracy to cover the truth, it means the investigators have an open mind as to what happened. Or would you prefer we just bombed, say, Iran instead?

[Woody Box]

35. The problem is...

1) this hypothesis' and possibilities are far less probable than a foreign secret service committing the crimes (no matter what country).

2) that the official accounts are always changing.

Example:

The day after the attacks, there were several reports that time devicers were found under the rubble - therefore the police excluded suicide bombers.

But 10 days later, the state of investigations is that no time devices were found (Telegraph). Period. No explanation what happened to the timers.

There are many, many oddities like this, covered in a fog of secrecy. Here's a good overview:

http://www.team8plus.org/forum_viewforum.php?9

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

36. re "oddities"

I name the four powers who are behind the al-Qaeda conspiracy

AT TIMES of national emergency, the habit of the news media to drop a story or a lead in mid-air when it seems to be going nowhere unsettles the public. The media betray a sort of sheepish wish to “move on” from an erroneous report, hoping that their audience will not notice.

Rather than acknowledge this, they publish a new report, leaving us to compare it with what had previously been said — and draw our own conclusions. Or they start barking up a different tree, the inference being that the last tree may have been the wrong tree. The habit is more disliked by listeners and readers than I think editors appreciate. Perhaps the first item on each day’s news agenda should be “matters arising from yesterday’s news”. News editors would then do us the courtesy of explaining where some of those stories went.

Immediately after July 7 it was prominently reported that the explosions “bore all the hallmarks” of the use of a type of high-grade military explosive whose presence would indicate a sophisticated international dimension to the bombings. We were alerted to a likely al-Qaeda link.

Then the news went silent. Then it was announced that tests showed the explosive to be of a home-made (or home-makeable) kind that al-Qaeda were known to know about from the internet. Then that story, too, seemed to fizzle out.

read on:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1065-1704834,00.html

[Anarcho-Socialist]

37. "far less probable than a foreign secret service committing the crimes"

Do you have any evidence of this?

[ikri]

39. foreign secret service?

Who?

Zimbabwe? Argentina? Are there any other governments around the world with actual grievances with the UK other than Zimbabwe and Argentina? (I don't include Iraq or Afghanistan in the list as technically their governments are very friend with the UK, even if the people aren't).

Or are you suggesting that the US secret service was responsible?

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

41. help me out here Scottie ...

"PCT" and "JH"?

[evermind]

53. PCT: Paranoid Conspiracy Theorist (opposed to simple CT) see post #9

About "JH", I've no idea myself, I'm afraid..

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

55. cheers

[mr blur]

43. Remember how grateful we were

for the understanding and sensitivity we got from DU when this happened? And Taxloss eloquently put our thanks in a thread? I suggest we remember that and ignore this crap. These people certainly have enough going on in their own government to enable them to think up countless conspiracy theories. Leave them to it.

[beam me up scottie]

46. Good idea.

As if there was nothing else for them to do...

[D-Notice]

44. Well, as Nirvana said

"Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you". They might (I mean might...) just be on to something. :-)

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[evermind]

52. Perhaps it would be better to just disagree with posts you disagree with

instead of making vague insinuations about an "invasion".

In internet forums, projection and imagination can run riot where information content is low (as you have no doubt noticed).

Perhaps this is a similar, if smaller scale, version of the way "conspiracy theories" sprout in the absence of clear data about major news events... ;-)

[beam me up scottie]

54. Perhaps you should read the op.

It is incredibly rude and insensitive to force this issue when the posters in this forum are not receptive to it.

The theorists posted their info and links and should have left it at that.

This is a despicable way to treat our friends and allies.

I'm ashamed of my countrymen and fellow DUers.

[evermind]

58. Sorry, I still don't know what posts you're referring to..

.. and I don't know who you're accusing of being "despicable", "incredibly insensitive", and "forcing this issue".

Regards your countrymen, I'm sure Britain has equivalent rates of (P)CTs per capita, and that ?IHOP scenarios are springing up like mushrooms all over the country (I've even heard a few uttered myself).

My own view is: let theorists of whatever variety scrutinise and deconstruct official accounts; quite possibly it will be rubbish, but it doesn't really hurt anything (except good taste) and in the process there's a chance (albeit slim) that maybe interesting information will emerge.

As I've posted above, there's no reason at all to trust the British government to tell the whole truth about policing terrorism - the whole history of the campaign against the IRA urges just the opposite view, in fact.

Tactless though it might be to say it, I don't think we should let the enormity of the event "cow us" away from a frank discussion of it. That would just be "giving in to terror"...

[beam me up scottie]

59. Why did you feel it necessary to post your "theories" in this thread

after the op stated that he was weary of hearing them ?

You couldn't have picked this up elsewhere or started your own thread?

THAT is forcing the issue.

Tactless isn't the word for it.

[evermind]

60. What "theories" did I post? I don't remember posting any...

On edit: perhaps you're confusing me with another individual whose posts in this thread have been deleted? None of my posts have been (at the time of posting this :-) )

[Anarcho-Socialist]

56. "Constant Rush Limbaugh and Fox/Murdoch listener are you"

I think we can do without the right-wing analogies.

[Pallas180]

67. I rather liked it myself.

its either that or believing there are people walking around with blinders on.

Of course there's a third choice but it would be insulting to those who post here who ARE intelligent.

:)

[beam me up scottie]

68. I did not deserve that attack nor the insults.

I never even read your posts, I was referring to another thread.
Had you given me the chance to explain, I would have clarified.
Instead you flung accusations and insults.
Blinders indeed.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

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[Anarcho-Socialist]

61. I agree 100% with you Taxloss

[southlandshari]

62. Hi guys!

Could everyone please re-read the OP here and focus on the topic and not each other? I'm not going to be very popular around here if the second-ever locked thread in the history of the UK country forum follows so quickly on the heels of the first!

A little civility and respect, please. If a post offends you, please alert on it and don't respond to it here. No reason to let someone you think is causing trouble take you down with them!

:hi:


southlandshari
DU Moderator

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

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[Anarcho-Socialist]

64. Thank you

:)

[beam me up scottie]

65. Thanks!

nt

[D-Notice]

72. David Shayler speaks

http://www.lewisnews.com/article.asp?ID=107376

“First, we learn about the training exercises going on here just like 9/11. Next, they release suspicious evidence left behind by the culprits as well as quickly releasing identifying pictures of the suspects just like the did after 9/11,” he said.

Shayler added that what’s even more suspicious is the private security firm in charge of the training drills prior to 7/7 had ties to former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani. Further, he also received information that one of the named suicide bombers, whose picture was released in the London press, has turned up alive and well in Pakistan.

“Just like in the United States, we here in England are being bombarded with what looks like a lot of misinformation in the press,” said Shayler. “Apparently, one of the supposed suicide bombers has turned up alive just like six or seven of the 19 Arab hijackers turned up alive after 9/11.”

[muriel_volestrangler]

73. If that's what Shayler is really saying, my opinion of him has gone down

drastically. However, I do wonder whether an interview conducted over the phone with "East Bonn on the southern coast of England" has really reported what he said correctly (or did the Germans really win WW2, and I've never noticed?)

The interview certainly repeats the exaggerations and misinformation that conspiracy theorists are building about the London bombings. I never realised Shayler just repeated anything he read on the Internet.

[D-Notice]

74. Guess they've never

heard of place called Eastbourne, but you do have to wonder why he'd live in retirement village... Mr shayler must be in his 60s!

By the way, you'd be hard pressed to tell whether the Nazis did win WW2 with this govt, see Brian Haws/Parliament protests, ID cards, anti-terror laws, Belmarsh, "Control Orders", etc

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

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