Cricket: The Ashes 4th Test reaction (England v Australia)

[Anarcho-Socialist]

England win by 3 wickets
England 2nd innings 129-7
I need a drink.

[Captain Hilts]

1. How long did the contest last? (nt)

[Anarcho-Socialist]

2. This was the 4th day of the 4th match

England lead the series 2-1 (with one drawn).

[GCP]

3. I was just talking with my mum over there

And she said if England win this one, they get to keep the Ashes forever. Is this true?

[Anarcho-Socialist]

5. "The Ashes" urn belongs to a private individual

who loans it to the Lords Cricket Ground for display. Although the competition is called the Ashes, the two teams are not competing for the original Ashes urn.

[mrfrapp]

7. No n/t

[fedsron2us]

4. Another attempt to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

This is becoming torture.

[tjwmason]

6. It is soooooo English though

The rugby team are exactly the same.

Start by building up a really strong position - to the point that it looks unassailable - then collapse.

This game should have been won by 8 wickets, by not with England there to have some 'fun' - though of course we should give credit to a splendid performance from Australia as well.

I think that I'm going to take a bottle full of valium during the final Test.

Nevertheless - we're 2-1 ahead, and that's something to celebrate.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mrfrapp]

9. How is that cheating?

Please point to the appropriate cricket law that says this isn't allowed.

Also, if you're going to criticise people for not being English, at least get it right. Geraint Jones is not an Australian. He was brought up there but was born in Papa New Guinea. Moreover, at least one of the 8 "Englishmen" is actually Welsh.

[SweetLeftFoot]

10. For a start

the law says that a player cannot be off for longer than 7 minutes if not injured. We Aussies - foolishly believing that England would play by the rules - have not been timing the continual rotations fo the quicks but it seems to me that most of them are off for at least ten minutes. Cheating.

Geraint Jones was born in PNG true, but lived in QLD and WA - and couldn't get a game there. You ever heard the boy speak? He's Australian.

I will let S. Jones off as it is the England and Wales Cricket Board.

Still, answer the question. When did England last field a side of 11 English players on the ground and one English 12th man?

[mrfrapp]

11. 7 Minute Law

None of the bowlers were off the field for more than seven minutes and even if they were the law says simply says that they can't bowl for a time once they return to the field. If you're complaining about Pratt being on the field for more than seven minutes then he was substituting for Simon Jones who was injured. No breach of the law here. You may rememeber Australian Michael Clarke was substituted in the field for the entire match at Old Trafford. Again, perfectly legitimate.

If you were to say that it's "not cricket" or not within the "spirit of the game" I wouldn't disagree with you, but you're using the word cheating which is simply not the case. If you think it is cheating then I suggest you complain to the ICC that Ponting has been fined 75% of his match fee for bringing the game into disrepute by saying just what you're saying.

As for England not fielding 11 "English" players I honestly couldn't care less and have no idea when the last time England fielded an "English" team as per your rules. Pietersen, Strauss and G Jones want to play for England, are elligable to play for England and to top it off the stuffy old blokes at Lords say they can. That's good enough for me and most other people it seems. It's not as it Pietersen or Strauss aren't good enough to play for South Africa so that's not an argument either.

I hate nationalism and can't believe I'm allowing myself to be drawn into this nonsense. All I care about is that there's an excellent test series being fought and am admiring the cricket from both sides. If I support England it's only because it's the one team I can support year, year out. If you want to turn the Ashes into a competition about nationalities and team purity then that's up to you but I'm not going to take part in it.

[SweetLeftFoot]

12. Well ...

If I support England it's only because it's the one team I can support year, year out. If you want to turn the Ashes into a competition about nationalities and team purity then that's up to you but I'm not going to take part in it.

If you can't see why it frustrates an Aussie to be beaten by an England team that plays many non-English, then I despair for you.

The thing that really concerns me is - why are there two Saffas in the team but no Asian kids? One the guys who blew up the Tube played cricket.

I've done stories on this very issue (I'm a journo) and met Asian kids in Yorkshire who told me how they were effectively told to bugger off to their own Paki league when they'd try and get a game at the more established clubs.

If I were English, I wouldn't be celebrating a team that happily travels to Zim, that used to conduct rebel tours of apartheid South Africa with regularity and has always taken on South African players where there is NOT ONE player from England's huge Asian or Carribean communities represented.

Anyway, you've had your run. We were devasted by injuries and you had all the luck and you could only beat us by three runs and three wickets. McGrath will come back and we'll murder you at The Oval.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

13. You make the Ashes sound like a war against imperialism

I've been enjoying the cricket. If there is presumably racism in the game, then that does need to be addressed. However placing the game in terms of good versus evil is somewhat over the top.

[mrfrapp]

14. ...

"If you can't see why it frustrates an Aussie to be beaten by an England team that plays many non-English, then I despair for you."

I have no idea what you mean by "non-English". The three players you're complaining about have UK passports, the nearest to "Englishness" you can get in the UK.

With regards to why there are no Asian or Carribean players I don't really know why that is but that's a problem that County Cricket needs to address rather than the England team; the selectors aren't going to pick players unless they play at county level. I agree, it's certainly odd why Yorkshire doesn't have more Asian players than it does.

Anyway, I find your tone and implied arguments reprehensible.

[Mr Creosote]

15. NOT ONE player from England's huge Asian or Carribean communities represen

Of course I'm not a journalist, so I have really no idea whether, for instance you should be aware of all the kids of Caribbean (it's how we non-journalists spell "carribean") who have played for England in the past. You seem to be implying that the selection of the England team is racist. I suppose Nasser Hussein didn't want asians in his teams either?

[SweetLeftFoot]

18. Certainly

There have been people of Asian and Carribbean background play for England - Hussain, Chris Lewis, Devon Malcolm, Phil DeFreitas ...

I am certainly implying that the English system at county level is racist.

[Dutch]

16. Because Australia would NEVER pick a player who wasn't born in Aus...

*cough* Kepler Wessels *cough*

And soo many members of Australia's Asian (and, for that matter, aboriginal) community are represented in their current squad...

I think here we have a nasty case of:

[SweetLeftFoot]

19. Actually underpants

Jason Gillespie is Aboriginal. The first Australian team to ever tour England was composed entirely of Aboriginals.

We don't have a very large Indian, Pakistani or Bangladeshi population.

And the while you point out Wessels, you should be reminded that England at that time was playing Allan Lamb, Robin Smith - people like that.

Name the last England team to composed of Englishmen.

[Dutch]

21. You seem to have me confused with somebody else

Underpants mainly posts in the Lounge and GD, I believe.

Re: Gillespie- cool, I didn't know that so my point about the Aussie squad was unfair. Although, of course, Gillespie was not in the Australian team for the last test.

I don't need to be reminded about Smith and Lamb. My point about Wessels was that the Australians have been happy to pick non-Australian born people who qualify for the Aussie team. Generally speaking, I don't think that's a bad thing at all, though I was never comfortable with the specific situation of South Africans changing nationalities simply to dodge apartheid sanctions, whether they played for Australia or England or anyone else.

Name the last England team to composed of Englishmen.

That which competed in the last test match. I am a liberal and take a liberal, non-nativistic attitude towards nationality.

I'm sure everybody in this forum would condemn the racism that few would struggle to belive still exists in county cricket- (just as they would take pride in the great Asian and black players that have come through to the top level). That doesn't mean they shouldn't take pride in the team, it means they should be driven by their pride in the team to fight against bigotry at all levels. But the fact that you on the one hand rightly condemn this racism, but on the other hand also condemn England for not adopting a hard-line nativistic approach to selecting their team, does not strike me as consistent.

[Kipling]

22. In reply:

OK, fine, so Jason Gillespie is a quarter Aborigine, along with Greek and Irish. However, Wikipedia says he is the first. And I'm sorry, but you can't deny Australia has large Vietnamese, Japanese, and Chinese minorities, who are under-represented. Finally, as has already been said, if they live here and work here they're British enough for me.
Can't we just enjoy the game instead of all this bickering? On both sides of the world minorities undoubtedly need to be better represented, but that's an issue for another thread.

[SweetLeftFoot]

23. You miss the point -

Vietnam and China have never been cricketing nations. It is thus unfair to expect Australia to represent them in the team.

England's Asian communities come from cricket mad nations. That they are not represented is a matter of shame.

[Kipling]

17. M'kay, getting a little overheated there.

"The thing that really concerns me is - why are there two Saffas in the team but no Asian kids? One the guys who blew up the Tube played cricket."

"I've done stories on this very issue (I'm a journo) and met Asian kids in Yorkshire who told me how they were effectively told to bugger off to their own Paki league when they'd try and get a game at the more established clubs."
The last captain of the England team was Asian. And how many minorities are in your team? All those Aborigines, and Japanese?
BTW... Saffa? Journo? Damn, you Aussies are inventive.

"Anyway, you've had your run. We were devasted by injuries and you had all the luck and you could only beat us by three runs and three wickets. McGrath will come back and we'll murder you at The Oval."
Jones will come back too. And we'll have the psychological edge. And the luck, FYI, went both ways.

[SweetLeftFoot]

20. As above

Jason Gillespie is Aboriginal.