Hurricane Katrina events UK forum discussion thread

[Anarcho-Socialist]

I thought we could do with a thread on this in a less-busy forum, since GD and LBN appear to be heaving at the moment.

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I just watched * on BBC News 24 talking to Alabama officials about rescue efforts and conditions in New Orleans. He had his typical vacant, uninterested, bored, smirky, uncomfortable expression. It's a mess. He's a mess.

[Benbow]

1. Good idea - and Bush truly is a psychopath, like

Stalin - Russia
Idi Amin - Uganda
Pol Pot - Cambodia
Ceausescu - Romania (?)
Saddam Hussein - Iraq

Can we learn anything from history, or are we going to have to wait and pile up skulls in southern USA?

[Kipling]

3. I think we look at Bush the wrong way. Think of him as an 8-year-old.

I'm amazed how this sheds light on nearly everything the man(?) says and does.
He's not a psychopath, he just lacks the sophistication for empathy. He can't really understand things that aren't right in front of him. He lives in a world where there's Good and Bad. He knows that Daddy and Uncle Dick know best, and he has to be careful to do as they say.

[supernova]

9. Southerners

Well, a lot of my brethern have been extremely loyal to him, for entirely superfical reasons like "family values," and flag-waving patriotism. There was nothing anyone of us who thought differently could do to dissuade them otherwise.

BUT, now that the proverbial chickens have come home to roost, i.e. he's treating them just like he has treated the rest of the world, I think you are going to find a lot of southerners are really going to turn on him.

One thing they really hate above all is loyalty unreturned.

[Benbow]

2. I was resisting, adding Hitler - Germany, but there is a Bush connection -

Google --> Bush Eugenics

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4581276

Prescott Bush was a supplier to Hitler. GHW Bush was big into the Eugenics movement

[beam me up scottie]

5. No offense, but that is the stupidest thing I've seen all day.

And that's saying a lot after walking through the tinfoil ER that is now GD.

[Benbow]

8. Er, it's common knowledge, in the public domain n/t

[beam me up scottie]

12. No, not the history lesson.

Its relevancy to the dolt in the Oval Office.

[supernova]

10. This is not news

The history of how the Bushes "earned" their fortune is out there for anyone willing to look for it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

4. Bush is such an irrelevance to the recovery effort

Because he can't organise anything, apart from a dirty campaign. He did that to get elected, and he did that to go into Iraq (which was basically a smear campaign, despite how bad Saddam already was). The best you can hope for is that he'll leave the people who can actually do something alone to get on with it. But at the moment it looks like he's getting in the way.

The quotes appearing that he's looking forward to sitting on Trent Lott's new porch are amazing. Does he really not have a single clue on the kind of thing he should be saying now? I thought he did at least have enough political cunning to appear concerned about the people, and not just his supporters. I think Kim Jong Il would know how to react better.

[supernova]

6. No I don't think he does

Does he really not have a single clue on the kind of thing he should be saying now?

The poster who called * an 8 year old has it about right. He's just not a grownup for all he is in his 50s. And I've met more compassionate children than this!

[beam me up scottie]

11. Socially retarded.

I think that was the best description.

Have you seen the footage from the day he was presented with a portrait of the late MLK by the late Doctor's wife?
He jokingly says "I can't wait to hang it, heh heh heh."
The emphasis on hang is his.
As he said it, he looked up at the press and smirked before doing his trademark heh heh heh.
He wanted them to cackle along with him over his clever joke.
It was probably the most disturbing thing I have ever seen him do.

And this was on camera at the White House.

[mr blur]

7. Surely this must signal the Chimp's downfall?

It's a total fuck-up! All those poor people suffering or dead and no help from the government and he's off attending fundraising dinners and playing the guitar in public. Every word that come out of the idiot's mouth condemns him as an uncaring halfwit or, at best, incompetent and unfit for office.

I'm no fan of the Queen or Blair but the first thing they did on London being attacked was return to the city (at some possible danger to themselves).

Now it seems that even his supporters in the US media are finally unable to avoid pointing out what is obvious to everyone, that their president is either unable to comprehend what's happening, or is way out of his depth, or doesn't seem to care.

[beam me up scottie]

13. That is the reason why it cannot be LIHOP.

Not even Ray-gun looked this clueless.
This is one of the worst screw ups in 5 years.
Too bad it had to take a disaster of this magnitude to wake people up.

[lockdown]

15. LIHOP

Give it a rest for once, for fucks sake. :eyes:

[Briar]

16. 9/11 didn't, why should this?

Far too much power and influence is invested in this presidency to allow it to be threatened.

[beam me up scottie]

14. Here is the link to the video of Mrs. King presenting him with

the portrait of her dead husband.

No matter how many times I see it, I still feel sickened.
This alone should have finished his career, IMO.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/01/20020121-1.html#

[Anarcho-Socialist]

17. I had no idea about that

Thanks for the link. It just again reinforces just how sick Bush is.

[Mr Creosote]

18. Bloody hell fire

I just cannot believe it. And it got a big laugh. Bloody hell I dont know what to say.

[beam me up scottie]

19. I went off topic and I didn't mean to.

It just occurred to me that you probably hadn't seen that hideous display of a baboon's ass.

Most Americans haven't seen it, although we've tried to circulate it several times on the internet.

I'd hate to think that they did see it and weren't affected by it.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

20. Katrina Britons 'moved from dome'

-The situation inside the Superdome is desperate

Around 30 Britons sheltering in a sports stadium after Hurricane Katrina are being re-located to hotels in Texas, the Foreign Office said.

The move comes after stories emerged of violent confrontations, bullying and shortages of food and water at the Louisiana Superdome in New Orleans.

Overall, the Foreign Office said there were around 100 British people in Louisiana when the hurricane struck. Relatives and friends can call the UK government helpline: 0207 008 0000.

A Foreign Office spokesman said: "There were 20 to 30 British people in the dome, and they are being moved out to hotels in Dallas and Houston and other places in Texas.

More at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4207252.stm

[beam me up scottie]

27. That's horrible.

I wouldn't have seen that on the main forums.
It must be terrifying for them.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

28. On BBC News 24 earlier

they were reporting stories of rape, gangsterism, killing. I have to keep reminding myself that it's the U.S.A. and not downtown Fallujah.

[beam me up scottie]

29. I cannot believe that this

is happening in America in 2005.

People are dying while the world watches and we do nothing.
It is too much to bear.

I spoke with a very distraught person yesterday.
The images and reports were being played over and over on tv and she was on the verge of a breakdown.
It is too overwhelming to grasp the sheer scale of this humanitarian disaster.
And the fact that this is happening to people who were too poor to get out of the way.
And that they were left behind and forgotten, like so much refuse.

Someone at work made a comment about those who "chose" to stay behind.
I told them that I am one of those people who would have "chosen" to stay because I am poor.
I have no money and nowhere to go.
I would have had no choice and neither did most of those people.
I would be in that hell if I lived there.

They finally shut up.

[Taxloss]

32. The Evening Standard this afternoon was reporting

a British couple - white - trapped in the superdome and subject to horrible threats of violence and rape. It seems conditions in there are primeval. I pity those who do not have access to foreign consulates and media.

[LeftishBrit]

21. He is a mess

Not only did his Iraqi war, with false WMD info and the like, cause incredible problems and suffering in Iraq itself; but it's turned out to be like the actions of the person who makes false-alarm calls to the emergency services. Sooner or later, if you do that, people in genuine emergencies will die, because the rescue services have been diverted elsewhere. And that's what seems to have happened on a large scale. The money, the troops, the resources should have been at home, not in Iraq!

Stupid incompetent bastard. When things are stable enough for this to be safe, he should have the decency to resign.

I hope that people now will really start to get the help that they need!!!

Please keep us all posted about ways of donating. Many people whom I know are donating to the Red Cross, but keep us informed about anything that might be less obvious!

[beam me up scottie]

22. Sorry for the off topic post about Mrs. King.

It's just that today's performance reminded me of how much disrespect * has for black people.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

24. It's relevant

It gives an important insight into the mind of the U.S. Head of State.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

23. Options for Donations

Feed the Children: http://www.feedthechildren.org/site/PageServer?pagename=usw_hurricane_katrina&s_src=google_landingpage

Red Cross: http://www.redcross.org/

Salvation Army: http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/

North West Medical Teams: http://www.nwmedicalteams.org/

Here is a good list of other reputable charities from Charity Navigator: http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm/bay/content.view/catid/68/cpid/310.htm

[lockdown]

25. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4508159

[Anarcho-Socialist]

26. Thanks for the link

[fedsron2us]

30. I heard Bush's speech on the BBC

It was drivel from start to finish.

Here is just an extract of what he said

GEORGE W. BUSH: Citizens ought to be working together. I mean if people need water and food, we're going to do everything we can to get them water and food. But you know, this is, it's very important for the citizens, and all affected areas to take personal responsibility and assume kind of a civic sense of responsibility so that the situation doesn't get out of hand, so people don't exploit the vulnerable.

Quite how this is supposed to help sick and frail people dying from dehydration is quite beyond me. I suppose the kindest judgement is just to assume that the man in is an insensitive twat.

Of course , there are plenty of politicians in the UK who over the past twenty five years have taken the USA as some sort of model that Britain should emulate. I think they are going to have an increasingly difficult time peddling that line after the catastrophic fiasco we have seen unfolding over the past few days.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

31. I think it was a speech for the "benefit" of the electorate

rather than the victims.

I wonder if his advisers were waving incredibly-low presidential and Congressional poll ratings in Bush's face (mindful of 2006 mid-terms), saying "you gotta say something about this, and feign some compassion." There is a sense that the Bush presidency and the Republican Congress are crashing and burning. The GOP tied itself to the Bush wagon in the 2002 mid-terms and so they're both inexplicably linked in the eyes of the US public.

I do agree that the USA is definitely not the model to follow. I'd like to think also most Britons realise this now too.

[moggie]

35. That was a prepared speech?

Even with preparation, he can barely be articulate, let alone inspiring. Granted, that he's a poor speaker isn't exactly top of the reasons to despise him at the moment, but leadership is important at times of national crisis. Can you imagine any other president giving such a lame performance? If Bush had given the Gettysburg address, the north would have given up and gone home.

[Taxloss]

33. Let's imagine this had struck Newcastle.

Strategic refineries nearby; a strategically important city. Would we have left it so long? I can't imagine any other picture beyond RAF Sea King helicopters swarming over it in hours - like Boscastle. I've always thought that the US was good at planning this kind of thing, and heroic in exercising those plans - I'm shocked by what I see now.

[RaRa]

34. Hi, just popping in

from Amerika. You're shocked. I'm not. The combination of racism and Republican arrogance (that whatever they do won't hurt them) is proving deadly. We've had bad hurricanes and flooding before (like on the scale of all of England flooded) but recovered. So, with a media that has been terrified of questioning our Fuhrer, it's taking the public a little while to realize how bad this is. Hell, if it weren't for sites like this I wouldn't know, since I don't watch much television and our local paper is covering this story but it's not the main one, if you can believe it. Of course, if this had been Fort Lauderdale or some other wealthy white area, don't believe for a SECOND that things wouldn't be drastically different. I'm white and I am sick to my stomach that this country's rascism is so blatantly deep. Just based on my rage, I'm half expecting this entire country to break out in riots given the horrendous treatment of the victims.

[RageFist]

40. I am usually content with just being pissed off

to drive me politically. This is the first time that I've felt COMPLETELY overwhelmed with the sense that our government has failed us...utterly failed us. Now, instead of being pissed off, I just want to cry. Sometimes I yearn for the pipe dream that was being a young American in the 90s...

:cry:

[fedsron2us]

36. Your not alone in being shocked and surprised

The world has always assumed that logistics was the USA's strong point. It has been this factor more than any other that has enabled it to win two world wars and to become the planets dominant power. Recent events suggest that the US government is now struggling to mobilise its resources. You can be sure that the country's enemies will be taking note.

[Taxloss]

37. Yes, that's what worries me.

The idea that some terrorist cells are, right now, slapping their foreheads and saying: "Levees! Why didn't WE think of that?"

The sheer administrative inertia demonstrated by the immediate non-action ... I thought today that it's good that Bush wasn't president during the Cold War. He doesn't seem to be good at split-second decision making. He doesn't seem to be good at split-week decision making.

[non sociopath skin]

38. Good points from the excellent Michael Goldfarb of Boston Public Radio ..

.... on BBC News 24's "Dateline London" this morning. He reminded the panel that the Repugs' main selling point in their Presidential campaign was about how they could keep America safe in a crisis. Hard to believe that Kerry, Nader or just about anybody could have done worse, now.

He was also talking about how every time he goes back to the States now he sees a more neglected infrastructure, the result of Government being seen as the enemy. This being so, he said the Katrina fiasco had come as little surprise to him.

There's an edited repeat, I think at 10.30 tonight. Well worth catching ...

The Skin

[supernova]

39. I love Michael Goldfarb

I hear reports of his here in WUNC. I wish he had his own show. I haven't been able to find one.

Maybe now we will start to have a serious debate in this country about the Repubs mantra of "less governnment." I have come to think the administration (and the entire mentality that supports them) has believed this for so long, that it's not far fetched to say when you really need the government, they are incapable of responding appropriately. They've so convinced themselves that government isn't the answer. Well, there are some things that *only* the government can do.

The country has swallowed that line for the past 25 years and I have feared something like this would happen. Someone in GD said "effective government" as opposed to "less government" and they're right. It is a debate worth exploring once we get everyone safe.