The Sydney race riots. What happened?

[Cascadian]

I was saddened and shocked to see the riots in Sydney. How did it all come to this? All I saw and read about was a crowd of racist, drunken thugs running amuck in a neighborhood with a large Middle Eastern population. I was beyond belief with your Prime Minister's reaction. He seemed to refuse to call these oafs as "racist". What would you call them then, John? I am sure Pauline Hanson was applauding the events. The NSW state premier's reaction was far more straight forward then Howard was.

Would love to read what you Aussie DUers have to say on the violence.


John

[foreigncorrespondent]

1. I was shocked from it too!

From what I understand is not this past weekend, but the weekend prior some lifeguards were bashed by some Muslim youth. This weekend they had planned protests, but due to booze being consumed things went from peaceful to really bad.

We had Aussies acting like children. We had Muslims being told about what was happening via the cell phone, so they were heading to Crunella as well.

The sad thing is, it is Howard who has caused a lot of the hatred towards ethnic minorities in this country. And no, that isn't an excuse for racism. But we have the leader of this country dedicated to Bush*s war against the Muslim religion, so what do we expect is going to happen? We have Aussies who see their rights being diminished and we have Muslims who feel they are not made to feel part of this country. That's no excuse, but it does lead to tension.

I do not like what happened. I do not support those Aussies involved (they should have known better.) However I do know someone who lived in this area of Sydney for a lot of years before moving here to Melbourne. He has told me what the racial tension is like there. Now if the locals know about it, then why hasn't the NSW police stepped up security in this area?

There are a lot of people to blame in this. Not just those 5000 people involved.

[PinkUnicorn]

2. Complicated

Its a little more complicated than straight race riots and goes back some time, though Jackboot hasn't helped any...*thinks how to explain*...

The fighting isn't so much 'racial' as 'tribal', specifically 'beach tribes' who believe they own various stretches of beach. On one side you have the yobbo beach gangs of generally Anglo-Celtic, Pacific Islanders and Maoris while on the other you have the generally Lebanese 'gansta' gangs. The whole thing has been brewing for quite some time but mainly since 2002.

The first 'major' incident happened back in 2002 when the Bra Boys (Anglo-Celtic gang) attacked police returning from a Xmas party. Things got very ugly very fast though the event received little coverage. The Lebanese gangs have been pretty much running amok for some time, hassling women at beaches and getting involved in nasty incidents with police. Cut backs on policing by successive governments have meant police have had to be selective where they patrol and the lesser patrolled areas (like beaches and certain suburbs) are wide open to gangs of all stripes to claim their 'turf' which they promptly did. Another major tipping point was the gang rape which made headlines in 2002 as well, which well and truly set things simmering when one local Islamic leader stupidly said the young women ought to accept some blame for their attitudes and dress sense.

Then came the Bali bombings of 2002, six of who were killed were from Maroubra (the Bra Boys are the Maroubra gang). Next, a series of 'counter-terrorism' raids on Middle Eastern families in the city's south-west and Jackboots not so subtle nudges that 'all muslims are potential terrorists' inflamed things even further. Now you have a huge pile of tinder waiting for something to set it off. Personally I am surprised it took this long.

Then last week you had the lifeguard bashed when he tried to intervene with a Lebanese group hassling some women. This alone may not have set things off, but now enter the neo-nazis and the media. The saturation coverage by the media pretty much guaranteed that every moron, bigot, skinhead and wacko with a cause and a bottle of booze would turn up, and from that point it was only a matter of time before something happened, and with some itching for a fight the outcome was inevitable.

And of course we have the end result, which will go back and forth for some time as one group attacks the others 'turf'.

A on the fly thought of the occurrence and its causes, apologies if its a bit rambling but its mostly ad-lib :p

[Matilda]

3. I agree that it's more trible than racial.

People are saying it's so un-Australian, and certainly the fact that it's two different cultures
fighting it out is not the norm, but gang wars are hardly new. Back around the 1960s, there were
gang wars at Cronulla between surfers and rockers (the Australian equivalent of the mods and rockers
wars in the UK). They got pretty nasty as well.

The Lebanese did start this particular ruckus, but obviously it's necessary to work on the reasons
why they feel so alienated. The racist "send them back where they came from" can't work here,
because this is where most of them were born. We now have these tough new laws against incitement
to riot - funny how nobody's talking about using them on the shock jocks or the neo-nazis who were
quick to jump in and build the whole thing up.

There is a Lebanese group, as all Sydneysiders know, who have big problems in accepting our culture
and in particular as it applies to women, and one way or another they have to understand that there's
no sympathy for their attitudes here. What we don't need is every little punk with a grudge jumping
up and egging other people on.

Perhaps somebody should try to persuade the Lebanese boys to join a surf club and learn lifesaving.
It might be more productive than bashing heads and wrecking property.

[biggles1]

5. You make a lot of sense Matilda,

particularly with regard to the history of this type of behaviour in this country.

I'm from the Wollongong area originally and can remember from my youth similar ill-feeling being expressed towards other groups of 'New Australians'. I can remember dire predictions that the Italians/Greeks/Yugoslavs were a threat to our culture (whatever that might be), that 'our' women weren't safe, etc. I recall many cases of the same sort of gang warfare during the 60's and 70's.

As I say in another place, the lesson to observe is that ALL these groups (and the ones who came before) are now comfortably ensconced in the Australian 'mix'. The various groups have intermarried, their kids go to school together, relative harmony is possible. So it will be (eventually) with this group, I believe, given time........

And the message to those fake patriots, tearing up and down the beaches of Cronulla, their backs wrapped in the flag and their bellies full of booze, must be a constant one.... you were WRONG when you attacked the Irish migrants, the Chinese, the Italians, the Greeks, the Yugoslavs, the Vietnamese.....and you're WRONG AGAIN NOW....!

[Violet_Crumble]

8. I read something interesting today...

It was about immigrants and their kids who don't do all that well in some situations, and the habit of some to blame the nationality (eg Korean) for it. What they pointed out is that in some countries, immigrants from a particular country will do real well, and in others they suffer from unemployment, etc. So it's more an indictment of the country where they don't do well, than of them themselves...

Yr message is so right, but the people who need to listen aren't listening. I read this article today and couldn't believe this dickhead was bemoaning the fact that the riots hadn't spread into the scale the French riots did...

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/nationalists-boast-of-their-role-on-the-beach/2005/12/12/1134236003135.html

Violet...

[Violet_Crumble]

6. What a lot of people forget...

..is that these Lebanese gangs are no more representative of the majority of Australians of Lebanese descent as those racist drunken boofheads were of Australians of Anglo-Saxon descent....

I totally agree that it's amazing that we've got racial vilification laws that conveniently don't get applied when it's rioting against ethnic groups that John Howard has helped to alienate....

I think when it comes to Lebanese groups who have problems accepting our culture, that there's a hell of a lot of factors contributing to that. Most of them are Australian born, and have parents who have accepted the culture. Factors like unemployment and the willingness of our govt to alienate them have a lot to do with it. And it's also important to remember that there are plenty of Australian men whose roots probably go back to the convicts, who have a problem accepting our culture as it applies to women....

Violet....

[Matilda]

13. I think the parents are a part of the problem.

They're usually not Australian-born, and still hold to the ways of their native society. The girls
are brought up very strictly, but the boys have complete freedom. They can do no wrong in the eyes
of their parents - particularly the mothers - but at the same time they don't appear to be
encouraged to aim high in their education. So they're either unemployed or in low-paying dead-end
jobs, alienated and without much hope. It would be more productive to try to tackle the problems
while they're still at primary school, because punishment certainly isn't going to help.

It's going to take a willingness on the part of government and Islamic groups to work together on
this, re-educating the parents as well as the children, and it's a tough call, but the only other
way is to wait a couple more generations for them to adapt and integrate naturally. I don't know
if we can afford to do that.

[biggles1]

17. It's the only way Matilda...

As I say above, this is the way it's worked with every other group that's come here since colonisation! You have to (broadly speaking) ignore the parents' generation and concentrate on the kids. Our education system with its broadly egalitarian thrust has played a major role in this regard. It's awfully hard to maintain a feud with someone when you're sharing classes and playgrounds with them....!

[Matilda]

4. Alan Jones: "I'm the person that's led this charge here."

Interesting article from David Marr on Howard's good friend Alan Jones, and the part he played in
the lead-up to the riots.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2005/12/12/1134236003153.html?from=top5

Will we ever see Jones held to account? Not on your life - he dines with the PM. Say no more.

[Violet_Crumble]

7. The link to that article was doing the rounds at work today...

I had the telly on in the loungeroom while I was posting here, and Today Tonight was talking about Alan Jones. I didn't really listen to it, as I figure they'd be defending him to the hilt...

Violet...

[Polemonium]

11. He absolutely must be held to account.

Disgusting. I've heard talk radio here in Melbourne (3AW etc) but I have never heard that kind of vitriol on the radio. Is my head in the sand?

Even Beasley could make Alan look bad.

[Djinn]

26. nope

thankfully in Melbourne there isn't any comparison to the garbage spewed in Sydney (and Adelaide which is worse) when I worked in media monitoring a few years back I was floored by the stuff coming out of Sydney's commercial stations, even Neil Mitchell at his most rampantly tabloid couldn't hold a candle to Jones/Frances et al. Talkback in far north QLD is more progressive than in Sydney.

there are large Lebanese and Islamic communities in Melbourne and we don't have the kind of dramas that Sydney has - the culture of the two places is why

[velvet]

9. Ackity-Ack

The Daily Flute did a good deconstruction job today on Piers Ackerman's pronouncements on these events in the Telegraph.

http://dailyflute.com/?p=919

[SweetLeftFoot]

10. Aussie history

Go through the history of violent events like this in Aust and work out what percentage happened on very hot days when blokes had been drinking ...

[Matilda]

12. I went out to get a coffee from my favourite cafe yesterday

and there were three other customers discussing the riots. Every one of them thought that Howard's
continual harping on "home-grown terrorists" was contributing to the growing racism in this
country. They also disagreed with his comment that the riots wouldn't harm our image abroad. I'm
glad that some people are thinking.

[PinkUnicorn]

14. Agree somewhat

While I'll agree that Jackboots screeching of 'be afraid terrorists are everywhere' isn't helping, that combined with wankers like Jones is one of the root causes. The immediate problems and international media frenzy seem to be caused more by the lack of response to the actual events occurring with lots of mouths making motions, but not much action.

This may not be a popular opinion, but at this point I sorely wish that the police would pull their finger out and round up the lot of them. Not 'them' as in the Lebanese, but 'them' as in every idiot/skinhead/Leb/Skippy/shock jock/whatever who is propagating and actively engaged in this fighting regardless of colour, sex or ancestry. At the moment they seem to be doing little more than 'making plans', 'studying the situation', and 'reacting to events' when they should be coming down like a ton of bricks - especially on the core agitators. The Lebanese who attacked the lifeguard should have been in gaol so fast their heads spin, locked in the same cell as the white wankers who attacked the ambulance, paramedics and the public. The longer it is left to its own devices with an ineffectual response the more chance the rioting has of spreading, especially with parties trying to actively stir up further trouble by the SMS route again - I suspect the neo-nazi mob is doing this as they are getting huge publicity.

Air grievances? Most definitely (easier said than done I know with 'blue blooded WASPs' in power). Do a bit of rioting, assault, vandalism and race crimes? Say hello to Mr Truncheon.

As for 'not hurting our image', what planet is Howard on?

[Matilda]

15. Howard's doing the full Pontius Pilate bit,

"nothing to do with me, a state matter" totally in denial.

I don't have any sympathy with the Lebanese involved, but I think there's plenty of scope within
the law to arrest these fascists handing out their racist leaflets, and it should be done. I'm
troubled by the idea of rushing into place the new laws locking down suburbs, etc., which will
simply punish the innocent along with the guilty. I quite agree - the police know who they want and
they should use the anti-riot laws to nab them now. There are people out there determined to keep
this going - if the authorities can't handle this, pity help us all if terrorists do decide to
attack.

[no safe haven]

16. If the police do round up the yobs and they're under 18....

...they'll be back out on the streets again within the hour. Ever read the Young Offenders Act? Youth gangs are everywhere - Anglo, 'ethnic', mixed - all bent on harassing, intimidating and petty crime. After I was assaulted by a boy with a knife, all the police did was to invite me to a 'conferencing' session with the offender and his parents. Bloody lot of good that did. As much as I hated the Summary Offences Act when it was around, things are now getting out of hand and the kid gloves need to come off. Too many kids around with too much time on their hands, no place to go, not too many prospects for the future. Shutting down suburbs, enacting anti-riot laws will only address part of the problem.

As for Howard, people are slowly but surely tweaking, especially seeing him bumbling excuses to various leaders at the East Asia Summit, trying to cover his arse. The only reason Howard is concerned about the riots is because it makes him look bad in front of his potential trade partners. Bad timing for him. He's got a lot to answer for, from the children overboard incident to the 'homegrown terrorist' raids a few weeks ago, and above all his blinkered adherence to the so-called war on terror.

[Matilda]

18. Perhaps the current situation will result in a sensible review

of unworkable laws. I agree about the Summary Offences Act - sensibly administered, it probably
was one of the best deterrents for many a wayward kid. There's also the perennial problem of
lack of funding for police - out our way, we have one police station (Dee Why) at night and
weekends for at least a dozen suburbs. There's no way the cops could deal with every disturbance,
so gangs of teens get away with heaps of mindless violence against people and property. I'm
sure it's the same down in Sutherland as well.

At the least though, I don't see why racial vilification and incitement to riot laws can't be used
against the neo-nazi morons with their racist pamphlets. They're not kids, and they should be
taken out of the picture fast. I wish the shock jocks could be dealt with the same way, but the
pollies are too scared of them, especially Jones.

[no safe haven]

20. Small world indeed

DY is my local cop shop as well (about 5 minutes away)! Police are underfunded and overworked, that's true, and that situation is not helped by shutting down small police stations and setting up area commands.

I also agree, throw the book at the neo-nazis. That includes Alan Jones and Stan Zemanek. I listened to shock jock talkback radio the other morning when the ABC was on strike. Jones was off on holidays and one of the Wilessee brothers took his place. He was surprisingly open minded for that kind of radio show and tried to open up a reasonable debate with some success, apart from the odd lunatic fringedweller. Just goes to show how much Jones tries to bait controversy.

[PinkUnicorn]

19. All to familiar with the YO act

...as I worked with the IT provider for what the local prison wardens called 'Camp Krusty'. It was a revolving door holiday camp where if the wardens or employees even look at the prisoners funny they would be done for 'harassment' or 'abuse'. I had to agree with the warden with his wishful idea to shove the kids into the adult prison (minimum security) next door for a while. Let them see what goal is _really_ like for a while and make it something to be feared, as opposed to a 'bed and board'. The police are there to enforce the law without fear or favour, they are not social workers as people and pollies want them to be.

The only positive thing which may come out of all this is that the causes and systems will hopefully be examined very carefully and corrected. The festering sore has been lanced providing a temporary release, but if you don't treat the would it will just get infected again. This (albeit poor) metaphor can also be used for the riots themselves - why it was caused, the underlying racial/tribal tensions, and fix it. But make very clear if someone steps over the line they will regret it.

[no safe haven]

21. Your festering sore metaphor reminds me of ....

John Howard. A canker sore on a humanity - we've tried to lance him in 3 elections but his infectious conservatism keeps filling this country with pus. :7

But seriously though, trying to sort this problem out is not going to be easy. There are so many factors involved - cultural, economic, tribal territory, religious, and youth gangs. Bigotry and racism are not the only factors in play.

[Djinn]

27. that isn't the issue

It's the VISIBILITY of the crimes that's the issue. How many rapes were committed in Sydney during the period of the gang rape hysteria? how many did you hear about? How many random assaults took place on the weekend that the lifeguard was bashed?

The Lebanese community aren't anymore criminal than the rest of the population, but when whitey rapes someone it's reported as "a man has been arrested for rape" if someone from a Lebanese background rapes someone it's "police arrested a Lebanese man for rape".

It's hilarious to see surf yobs pretending they're sticking up for harrassed women or lifeguards - the first words they learn are "show us ya tits" and they regular get into brawls with clubbies themselves. They're fuckwits looking for a fight and the culture in Sydney of ALWAYS specifying when it's Lebanese committing crimes (and interestingly they're ALWAYS called Lebanese or Lebanese-Australian, regardless of how many generations they've been here - I guarantee if I'm ever arrested I wont be referred to as a Scottish-Australian despite me not actually being born here)

[Matilda]

22. When talk of racism is just not cricket ...

An interesting little piece in the smh, reminding us of John Howard's ugly racist past:

"The trouble is that every time John Howard says something about race all sorts of dark shadows
fall out of his mouth."


http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/when-talk-of-racism-is-just-not-cricket/2005/12/15/1134500961607.html


With another weekend of trouble being forecast not only for Sydney, but Wollongong and Newcastle
as well, I guess the big question is: how many in the community are really in sympathy with Howard?

[Cascadian]

23. John Howard strikes me as a bit of a bigot.

It seems his actions and commments reflects on a man who is simply prejudiced. Australia and Australians deserve a better PM than he.


Pity Labor did not win the last election.


John

[Djinn]

28. wouldn't have made much difference

The ALP has supported Howard's terrorism laws, the mandatory detention of refugees (they started it) and plenty of other draconian legislation.

Howard is your old school racist, one that would never think of himself as racist but one that can look at the riots and be appalled but "understand" why people have been feeling aggrieved. He "understands" because like the vast majority of the community he beleives that the Lebanese community somehow deserved what they got - Australia has EXACTLY the PM that most of us deserve

[Matilda]

24. How it all started ....

Leunig's wonderful take on the Cronulla riots:

>

On Edit: Link too small to read - the dialogue is:

Mobile #1: John .. Me + Tony gonna do Shock + Awe on Mslms in Iraq Rckts Bmbs Mssles
Boom Boom Boom Wanna be in it mate? George

Mobile #2: George ...yes yes yes whatever you say thanks soooooo much
Gd bless America
John

[velvet]

25. A good question

From last Sunday's Rally Against Racism. More at Possum News Network http://www.brushtail.com.au.