Warning: boring question about whether the Aus/NZ relationship is *unique*

[Violet_Crumble]

Okay, say that it's decided that because of our *unique* relationship, New Zealand is going to get preferential treatment over all other countries by having a 'one-stop shop' for New Zealanders set up on a govt dept website so as to make it easier for them to do things in Australia. And there'll be a reciprocal area on the site of the NZ govt dept that does the same thing as us in NZ. I just sat through a two-day workshop on it, and I didn't see any problems with acknowledging that our relationship with NZ is closer than with other countries, but a few people there were scoffing away and throwing up the argument that if we treat New Zealanders in a preferential way, then there's twentysomething other countries that we have agreements with that could all insist that they have a special relationship with us and therefore must have the same 'one-stop shop' on our website, which would have the end result of burying New Zealand among a bunch of other links. The argument they threw up was the US. New Zealand's long had the CER with us, but with the Free Trade Agreement with the US, it's hard to argue that NZ deserves any different treatment than the US. I think it is an easy point to argue, both culturally and economically, but if anyone else hasn't fallen asleep by this point and either agrees or disagrees, feel free to jump in...

Violet...

[rooboy]

1. I think the issue needs to be judged in terms of logistics as well.

If there is a large volume of NZ visitors, then it's only logical that a special section would be a good idea. The argument about 20 other countries having good relations does not automatically imply that each country should have its own special section.

So in my opinion, the cultural and economic arguments are irrelevant.

[girl gone mad]

2. Not only that, but..

so many young kiwis leave NZ for Australia in their college years and beyond. I may be wrong, but I don't think you can say the same about any other countries.

I thought New Zealanders could travel unrestricted to Australia and vice versa?

I really should shut up because I don't know much about the situation at all. Just a dumb American who has traveled to NZ once.

[rooboy]

4. We certainly eased the entry requirements for New Zealanders...

during the 2000 Olympics. Because of the influx of visitors from overseas, Sydney had a dreadful shortage of shoplifters, burglars and petty criminals. An SOS was sent to the NZ government to send over as many kiwis as possible to make up the shortfall... ;-)

[oceania]

5. Some years ago...

Our NZ prime minister Robert Muldoon commented that Kiwi immigration to Aus increased the IQ of both countries....

[SweetLeftFoot]

6. Hey rooboy

We even had to change the regulations so they'd stop coming for and just going the dole.

Would your screen-name have anything to do with a football affiliation?

[Matilda]

3. I think you are looking at on-the-ground reality,

and the others in your workshop were looking purely at the politics.

I've lived in N.Z., travelled with Kiwis, lived with Kiwis, and I
think we're more like each other than we are like anybody else. A
particular way of looking at the world and at other people that
probably comes from being the only two western countries in South-
East Asia, and from being so far away from other western countries.

Apart from all the sheep jokes each side loves to hurl at the other,
and digs about our respective accents, I feel pretty sure most
people would agree with you, Violet. And that's not something that
any treaties or agreements can change.

[Saynt]

7. I'm of the firm belief

that Australia and New Zealand should one day join together to make a single country. Of course things like national identities (allbethey very close already) would more than likely remain intact, but because Kiwis and Aussies are virtually indistinguishable, especially to the rest of the world, and seeing that to do anything major in say Australia you need to be A. A citizen B. A permanent resident or C. A New Zealand citizen, we're already well on our way.

Haha actually I'm of a not-so-firm belief that we should try to join the EU aswell but yeh.

No-one in the entire world is as close to us as culturally or socially, and almost as geographically (damn Indonesia) as NZ, and our current policies reflect that, and they'll only get tighter over time.

[Violet_Crumble]

8. That's a belief that's been around for ages...

New Zealand was involved in pre-Federation conferences along with the other colonies of the time, but dropped out before Federation. I kind of suspect the resistance to the concept has been that New Zealand being much smaller than Australia, would become another state of Australia like New South Wales or Victoria. And distinct national identities are a bit different than inter-state differences. And while djinn isn't here, I can mention cricket! Imagine the chaos and anarchy that would ensue if Australia-New Zealand Tests weren't an international match!!! Like, who's the slightest bit interested in NSW vs QLD?? ;)

I think the Trans-Tasman Harmonisation thingy is the closest we'll come to a union with New Zealand. Mind you, from a bureaucratic point of view, it's a real pain in the arse dealing with NZ legislation and realising that while it's very similar, any attempt to harmonise legislation from both countries needs a glossary of terms because while we can use the same terms, sometimes they have different meanings that can cost unsuspecting businessfolk from either country a lot of money if they don't realise the difference. Which is why what I was involved in was downgraded from Harmonisation to Co-operation...

Violet...

[Matilda]

9. Kiwis are very sensitive to any suggestion of full union,

because they fear that they would become just another state. They
have a lot of national pride, more than we do, I think. Unless
union becomes essential for their survival some time in a future
world, I think there would be very strong resistance.

[Phoebe_in_Sydney]

10. It is a unique relationship

I think it make sense to give NZers preferential treatment in Australia (and vice-versa).

While I wouldn't go so far as suggest we should be considered the same country (I don't think the Kiwis would cop our US butt-kissing right-wing political leaders -- and who'd blame them?) I think the fact that we are the closest neighbours in a relatively isolated part of the world, that we share the same language, a similar history and even that we now have NZ teams in our national sporting competitions (rugby league and basketball) means a special relationship is not out of line.

I'm assuming relationship you refer to is mainly to do with the bureaucracy of travel between the two countries -- and although the sport link might seem trivial to some people, the reality is we now have people popping across the Tasman to watch rugby union, rugby league and basketball matches on a regular basis, so why not make it as simple as possible? I can't see what either country has to lose, and I can't see how any other country can claim the same relationship with Australia as New Zealand can.

Apart from Tasmania, of course ;)

[emma_jane]

11. I don't think NZ/Oz are THAT similar...

Aside from a preoccupation with getting quite drunk I would say NZ and Oz are different in 2 main areas.
New Zealand is not so quick to give a rats about 'keeping up appearances' on the world stage (nuclear free, jailing alleged mossad spies etc.) I mean basically the US said "no free trade agreement till you drop the no nukes policy" and then got more pissed of when NZ wouldn't send troops to Iraq. Most public polls will show that average kiwis say "shove it" to this kind of politics and will stick to their guns harder for it.
Also, after a spell living in Newtown, Sydney, and working in Oxford Street Sydney, a couple of the most liberal places in oz (I imagine) I was struck and saddened by the state of race relations in Australia, and the general attitude amongst the white Australians I met that this wasn't an issue or, infact, had never been considered.
Personally, I think for these reasons and more Oz and NZ will not become 1 country. It is NZs independence and generally 'more liberal than other places' attitude towards global issues which is a source of pride to many here. It is for me anyway. I like to think there is a wee liberal utopia at the bottom of the world I can call my home, even if I have to go away ot do some of the things I want to do.
Anyway....

[CiCi the Psychobunny]

12. The relationship is pretty good

I mean, I (as a Kiwi) would put it as a sibling love-hate relationship. Aussies and Kiwis have a great time slagging each other off, but whenever I've been in Europe (as I have recently) and met Aussies, there's some kind of familiarity there that I don't feel with any other English-speaking nationality.

Certainly, Kiwis *really* don't like the idea of any kind of formal union, since as others have said, we would feel like just another state.

I quite like how things are at the moment: on the way back into Auckland Airport, there's a special passport-check queue for Australian/New Zealand residents.