WHY I DON'T BELIEVE KEITH

[tbuddha]

1. I believe Bev more

She has been working on this way longer than Keith or MSNBC. She has put tons of work into it. She has the support of Howard Dean, Randi Rhodes, Avi Rubin, David Dill and more. I don't think these people would ally with her if she was a fraud. She's worked tirelessly to get the message out, and the attacks on her are totally without merit.

2. Keith sends mixed messages

I still don't get the "mainstream guest" line. Why did he ask her in the first place then? He basically admits to a level of wishy-washiness all by himself. Doesn't smell right. Besides, if you are gonna do a story on BBV, why wouldn't you have Bev on?

Also, he hasn't made contact but his staffers have? Why is that? He is telling us he was denied by her 2nd hand? If his staffers can reach her, so can he and get it right from her mouth.

3. MSNBC is a crock of you know what

Turn it on right now. At any moment, you can see plastic faces reading off teleprompters garbage written by corrupt repuke editors. All misleading. Watch how they spin stuff. Remember the debates? How EVERY internet poll showed Kerry won yet they were trying to spin it differently. Did you see the awkwardness of Ron Reagan JR on that panel? There are tons of examples I could apply here.

Bottom line: Trust Bev over the media whore

[robbedvoter]

1. Bottom line: knowing the parties involved, I go with Keith here

Based on facts. My allegiance if only to the truth here.

[november3rd]

3. maybe they can work it out

but nobody is doing the work Bev is doing. If Olbermann really cared about her mission, he would paper over the dispute.

[tbuddha]

6. thank you and god bless

[tbuddha]

4. what facts? What I listed are facts...where are yours?

[rman]

7. the parties involved:

corporate propaganda machine vs grass-roots anti election fraud movement

[alittlelark]

2. I fully agree with you. I think KO has good intentions,

but he will not be 'allowed' to do anything that effects the corporatocracy.

I trust Bev and BBV.

[tbuddha]

5. bless you

[AmyCrat]

8. Ya know, it doesn't have to be one or the other

We can appreciate what Keith is doing covering the story. He seems to TRY to do it in a balanced way (IMO).

We can appreciate what Bev and BBV are doing working down in Florida. Obviously, they work hard.

Doesn't mean Bev doesn't make mistakes that can hurt the cause itself.
Doesn't mean Keith is always going to say what you want to hear.

Bottom line? Keith is all we got and he's INVITING her on his show. Maybe she shouldn't try to publicly lambast him, but rather try to solve it privately first, or at least more diplomatically. Don't bite the only MSM hand we've had feeding us since November 8th.

[tbuddha]

10. What if he is just plain lying though?

[AmyCrat]

17. and what if Bev is?

Please, get a grip (no nice way to say that, sorry :P ) -- It doesn't have to be either or. Maybe they are both lying. Maybe neither is. Doesn't change the fact that the little rant on BBV demanding a retraction and threatening to include Olbermann in a Votergate Conspiracy Documentary isn't the smartest way to solve it.

[Lerkfish]

11. wow, we posted similar things simultaneously.

:toast:

[Lerkfish]

9. why is this an either/or question?

why so many people pressuring us to choose sides.

I don't know everything about this, but I DO know a lot of low post count people trying to stir this up and make us draw lines in the sand.
At first I got pulled into that, but now I just say I won't be pulled into that.

I don't know why we have to choose between them, like children of divorce. Can't we love both of them for they individually have done to help the situation, and be skeptical of both of them for being human and imperfect?

why the push to put either on or off a pedestal?

[tbuddha]

12. I know that without Bev we have nada, so I'd like her to defend her

myself. There are a few on here really going after her. No Keith, we can move on. No Bev, we're pretty much screwed.

That's all

[AmyCrat]

15. while I agree Bev has done a lot

I DON'T agree on putting all our eggs in one basket. There are lots of people talking about fraud and investigating irregularities and making noise about the election. Bev is part of that, but not the make-it or break-it factor. Whether you like him or not, Olbermann has managed to cover this for a month with very little from Bev. So have others.

[Razorback_Democrat]

14. Personally I think trying divide us is a Rovian tactic

And I personally wonder about posters who are posting a lot on this issue.

We should wait and see how it all pans out.

I don't trust posters who are asking us to choose one way or the other or put out angry tirades when one doesn't agree with them.

I may be wrong, but then again, I may not....

[gWbush is Mabus]

18. who is closer to Rove, MSNBC or a BBV activist? hmmmmmmmmm

[stellanoir]

13. you know. . .

I understand your point of view. I've also admired Bev enormously for a very long time.

However Olberman is the only MSM dude offering any coverage whatsoever. Let's perhaps not be so quick to roast him.

We have no clue really, of the scheduling or corporate pressure he is operating under.

Bev has been moving heaven and earth since the election to expose the widespread fraud.

I just fear that what was probably nothing more than a misunderstanding and scheduling conflict has been blown completely out of proportion and has caused many to make the fundamental mistake that dems often make. . .that is. . .of forming the circular firing squad all too quickly, and losing sight of what's really at stake.

A representative legislature is at stake. Election fraud fundamentally equals taxation without representation.

Maybe let's just be mindful of who is speaking the truth and dismiss what is really no more than a silly misunderstanding. There is so much at stake.

[tbuddha]

16. That's not entirely true

We have gotten mention now on "HardBall", "Anderson Cooper 360", and "Crossfire" now too. All of it has been spun in their favor but it is media nonetheless. That is really all we want, since there is no such thing as "bad" media at this point.

I will not sit by while people in here bash Bev. She's our greatest hope, and we need her.

[stellanoir]

19. agreed. . .

"no such thing as bad publicity" or the old adage goes.

But I fear you miss my point. That this silly wrangling over what transpired between two people who are fundamentally alligned with the same agenda could potentially undermine the greater cause.

Only Bev and Keith (and perhaps his staff) know what really transpired. Is it really important? Or is it more important to expose the sad truth that with an election undermined by fraud will destroy our so called democracy?

As I said before, I respect Bev tremendously. In truth, I've never even watched Keith but have read his blog. and seen peoples responses to his show here. Beyond that I think that sometimes people can be extremely fickle and reactive.

Maybe let's just quell the bickering and save our country. Okay?

[Eric J in MN]

20. We don't need to choose between them.

Bev Harris was invited on "Countdown, they cancelled on her, and they told her she could appear some other time but she hasn't tried to re-schedule.

[tbuddha]

21. ...you are making a leap here and calling Bev a liar. Read again

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

[Eric J in MN]

22. That says the Countdown producers invited Bev Harris on

twice and then cancelled on her twice.
--------------------------------------
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/
Olbermann's producers had asked Harris to appear on the Countdown show twice, on Nov. 5 and Nov. 8. Each time, after Harris cleared her schedule to appear and shortly before the show, Olbermann's producers canceled the appearance without explanation.
------------------------------

I'm not calling anyone a liar.

[Puglover]

23. Hey Eric

did you by chance call Randi yesterday. There was an Eric from Minneapolis <yeah I know we have more then one :)> and he sounded very in the know. Was wondering if it might have been you.

[Ducks In A Row]

24. I agree

[Moderator]

25. please continue discussion here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=104119&mesg_id=104119