Re-Post From BBV Board

[Wiley50]

I, personally, know this poster. He was the single most tireless and productive volunteer we had at the Maury County Democratic Party. He, personally, registered over 1000 voters by standing in front of Wal-Mart and Grocery stores. I vouch for his honesty and devotion. I have tried to reach him by phone, but only got his answering machine so far.
I am no freeper. I am posting this only to add to the dialogue here the experience of someone I both know and trust. You're right sometimes it seems we are part of a circular firing squad.
And I also know that I'm gonna get a lot of hits for posting this here. But, The post is public already on BBV. and I do know this poster and have no reason to question his account.
Bev, What the hell is going on?
Wiley

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Conferences News Alerts USA Today Topic #172
Reading Topic #172, reply 24

Bernie
Crew
Dec-02-04, 08:23 AM (PST)

24. "RE: Have you all seen this??"
In response to message #22

I would strongly encourage everyone to call the number listed above.It will be quite the informative experience, if you have the same misfortune I just had.
I actually got Bev (!!) on the phone when I called, as well as her "media director" whose name I did not catch. And I learned more in my very frustrating three minutes of trying to get in a word edgewise (without success) with the two of them than I have learned in the past three weeks about why blackboxvoting.org seems so disorganized and so obsessed with navel gazing (and righteous indignation) at this moment. I was disgusted by my conversation with the two of them and more than a little put off.

I had simply called to ask that Bev and BBV take advantage of the opportunity that Keith Olbermann appears to have offered (and, at least according to him, offered and offered) for her to go on national television and share with a much larger audience what she/BBV have uncovered in Florida. That was the only reason I had called (and I had expected to just get an answering machine to leave that short message.) Instead, I got Bev and got to listen to her go on (and on and on and on...) about how Keith Olbermann owed her an apology, about how Countdown had never invited her to be on the program (say what?), about how what Keith had posted was libelous -- I mean, I thought I was a ranter, but there on the phone, I was briefly in the presence of a master!

I tried (unsuccessfully) several times to calm Bev down and to say that I would hope she would take advantage of the opportunity that Keith was offering -- to use the forum he was providing, regardless of how many times Countdown had offered (or not offered) her this chance before -- to stay focused on the big picture. And despite Bev's obviously healthy ego (or ass -- I'm not sure which she was showing me on the phone), the big picture at this moment is overturning this fraudulent election and being able to work together to do that. She must take every opportunity that is provided to expose what we know and how we know it -- for all the world to see.

But try as I might (and as an 8th generation Mississippean, I do have some phone manners, though Bev and her "media director" demonstrated they do not), I was unsuccessful in getting the two of them to just take a breath. They interrupted me repeatedly, despite my asking both of them (several times) to just let me finish one sentence before they interrupted again. They NEVER seemed to acknowledge my central (indeed, my only) point: that if you have a chance to appear on national television to present your "facts" on the election theft in Florida, please don't blow it by a name-calling bout with Keith. But sadly, I never got that chance -- the two of them simply wanted to shout me down. So I finally hung up, in complete disgust.

If either Bev or her "media director" have any common sense, any real skill in using the media and any real sense of patriotism at this moment, they will get any self-righteous hostility against Keith's latest blog entry out of the way BEFORE they go on camera. The story we are all following isn't about Bev/BBV -- it is about an election that was stolen, a democratic process that has been highjacked and a need to work together to do something about it.

Fortunately, at least from my perspective, the evidence that Bev/BBV has uncovered in Florida is not the only evidence of election theft that we have to work with -- we're literally drowning in it everywhere. (And we had more than our own share of voter harassment, voter registration suppression, personal threats on our safety and vandalism by the Republi-Nazis here in Tennessee also, despite apparently being a "red" state; so we also know what we are dealing with from our own, equally hardworking experience). Because if what Bev/BBV have uncovered was all we had to work with at this moment, I would feel very frustrated by the apparent absence of any communication skills (or sense of propriety or media savvy or even common courtesy) displayed by the "messengers" just now to me on the phone. And I would be even more fearful for the future of our democracy than I already am.

So this is likely to be my first and last post to this web-site. If Bev/BBV act with Keith and/or Countdown staff the way they acted with me this morning on the phone, the only cause they will aid is the one we are fighting against (all of us -- not just the two rude drama queens I had the misfortune of being yelled at by this morning). If Bev can deflate her obviously engorged ego for long enough to see what an opportunity Keith is presenting her and can realize (hopefully through the advice of some other more skilled, media-savvy person than the one who yelled at me this morning, someone that Bev might actually be willing to listen to), she will understand that any opportunity she gets to be on Countdown or any other national news program should be focused on the message (of election theft) and not the messenger (her). If she can do that, then she will re-earn my respect.

Right now, even though I was certainly a fan (of both her and of Keith) before I called this morning, I am not a fan of Bev now. I want reasoned, skilled and selfless leaders to get out front and overcome this coup -- and I didn't hear one this morning. Hopefully, when and if Bev gets her time on Countdown, I will hear only measured, weighty and well-presented information that will help put Bush and his handlers in prison. But if she repeats the same temper tantrum she showed me this morning, the only thing all of us will hear is Karl Rove and rest of the neo-con-derthal cartel laughing out loud -- at Bev, at Keith (for his stupidity in giving her a national forum) and at all the rest of us who are working to save this county. Peace, out.




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[TheDebbieDee]

1. I hope this post on the BBV board is not another...

credibility-damaging stunt by Karl Rove.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

3. from your logic olberman's blog post would be a karl rove stunt too

:eyes:

[Kelvin Mace]

10. How many people have to come on this

board, folks with long histories on DU and otjer boards before you understand this is not Karl Rove's doing it is Bev's doing?

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[tbuddha]

18. It is

[Kelvin Mace]

20. Could you please provide evidence

for this assertion? DU is very good about policing freepers and trolls, or are you now accusing Skinner of working for Rove?

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[bloom]

2. Maybe BBV should show their stuff on Democracy NOW

Seems that things probably won't get patched with KO. Esp. if he is dissing her on his blog.

[sce56]

9. Here is the link I've already sugested it to Amy and if we blast her with

it she just might do it!
http://www.democracynow.org/storyidea.pl

[KyndCulture]

4. Where's the #

The only way I'm gonna believe this is if I do it myself.

Does anyone know the number this poster is referencing?

[Stephanie]

5. You are crazy to think Bev's number will be posted here

That's all she needs. She will be getting Freeper calls for days.

[Kelvin Mace]

14. Her number is out there

and has been out there for two years now. It is not hard to get for those who expend a little effort.

Its not the freepers who are the problem.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Stephanie]

15. Well it should not be posted here for the asking

I am hoping people will have sense enough not to post her number just because somebody asks.

[Kelvin Mace]

21. Then she shouldn't post it on her web site

if she doesn't want people to know it.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[KyndCulture]

38. No reason to be so nasty

If the post is to be believed then it should have included the number because I've just read three other posts that totally disagree with this.

And I already got the number from her website, it's quite prominent.

[Stephanie]

41. What did I say that was "nasty"?

I don't think it's "nasty" to attempt to protect one of our own progressive activists from a flood of Freeper phone calls by requesting that we not post her phone number. Why does that bother you? Hmm?

[Wiley50]

27. The # is on BBV website N?T

[The Backlash Cometh]

6. Okay here is how I see this:

(1) Bev has a disagreement with what Olberman said. She's upset about it, then you call.

(2) Bev, by now, knows the incredible criticism she's receiving from DU members. She's upset about it, then you call.

(3) She's upset about things, then you call. She vents to you, who is probably someone in her inner circle and what do you do? Go crying like a little girl to DU about what a mean person Bev is. Stiff upper lip, ole chap, and all that. Give her time to decompress, which I think will be impossible to do since Maddy the Harridan is plucking chickens for feathers while others are heating up the tar.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

8. Umm why are people calling? Because Bev isn't addressing these allegations

and why is that?

[The Backlash Cometh]

12. Try this more rational thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x103475

[ProudToBeLiberal]

17. ummm wdf that pisses me off more

...they are holding off at showing all their cards.

Ummm we need to address the fraud NOW...wdf are they thinking. Omg they better take their heads out of the toliet.

[The Backlash Cometh]

23. When was the last time you laid your ass on the line for someone?

Christ. I tried to talk at a homeowner's meeting and even though I had all the documents and truth on my side, I was humiliated, denigrated and made the laughing stock of the community. I still have the documents to back up my point of view and time has proven me right, but you can better ass believe that I will NEVER put myself in that position again.

So my heart goes out to Bev for putting up with the lot of you because it's not just a homeowner's association she has to go up against, it's not just a well-connected law firm which she has to expose, it's the freakin' presidency of the United States and Karl Rove which she has to deal with.

Jeesh. What's worse, when she gets a Swift-Boat Liar type attack, where are you all going to be? Out on the porch, smoking your cigarettes and saying that Bev should have been more careful.

[Kelvin Mace]

16. Pattern of behaviour

Has happened DOZENS of times in the past with many, many people.

But you don't want to hear that and I am sorry.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[SueZhope]

28. Quick Question about Bev and her work

If Bev is all the awful things that people have asserted she is
like , flaky, rude, mean, dishonest, misleading, ego maniac, etc

How is it she is still in business?
(not sure that’s a good question..
people often stay in business who are dishonest
Bush &co )

Here is the better question:
How did she help win that last CA lawsuit?

[Kelvin Mace]

34. Because you don't get to

see that side of her until you get in close and you actually start to question some of the things she says or believes. Then she turns on you and strikes.

Again, you bring up a very touchy subject. That law suit was one of the many things proved Bev's less than sterling traits.

In the Fall of 2002 Bev publicly and privately accused a number of her allies and fellow advocates (DemActivist, Avi Rubin, David Dill, etc) of filing a qui tam suit using her work to enrich themselves. The accused HOTLY denied the charge. Bev SWORE she would NEVER file such a law suit since it would mean "dirtying her hands" as I believe she put it.

When it later turned out that the only person who actually filed such a suit was Bev, the excrement hit the oscillating blades.

When Bev was called on this, she HOTLY denied EVER accusing anyone of filing a qui tam and demanded people provide proof for such a baseless charge. When she was buried with links to her own posts and email proving the charge, she withdrew from DU saying she would no longer post here, which lasted about two weeks.

Again, the proof was in her own words. She was caught in a lie and has NEVER apologized to anyone she falsely accused.

This kind of stuck in many people's craw.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Kelvin Mace]

7. And THAT my friends

is the kind of phone conversation I had to deal with over and over and OVER again.

At 1:00, 2:00, and 3:00 in the MORNING.

Being shouted down, called a liar and numerous other less savory names. Not to mention the threats of laws suits, the libelous and vicious attacks here at DU.

And when I wasn't GETTING these types of phone calls, I was cleaning up after Bev when she did this to some other activist or reporter.

Folks, this is the reality of dealing with Bev.

In her defense, I will say she is not a fraud. She genuinely BELIEVES what she says, even though it is totally untrue.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[papau]

19. Bless you David - and Bev!- this will work out ok I am sure - but DU adds

nothing to the speed of the resolution - although it should be able to help.

[hlthe2b]

11. Without directly criticizing anyone...I think we all must learn one thing:

how to "pick our battles and when to hold our cards."

This is not something that I personally am good at, but if you look at the successful spokespeople and candidates for high office--they learn how to ignore/move past the pain of personal grievance in order to keep attention on their key message.

Emotion and exhaustion is probably most at play right now. The conviction of ones beliefs is motivating, but also must be harnassed. The emotion and passion that is so motivating can also render one unwilling to listen to others and even make it impossible to distinguish those on your side from those trying to oppose or stop you. As much as I like randi rhodes and mike malloy and others on AAR, they need to learn this. So too must many of our progressive leaders and spokespeople.

[PATRICK]

13. Sounds like a bad moment

a well intentioned volunteer was trying to insert his opinion in the midst of a communications meltdown between two parties he knows nothing about. Everyone sounds human here and it is all very dramatic but detracts from no one.

And yes, putting all the eggs in the most future critical issue(turning fraud invisible and unaccountable), is very frustrating when nothing else
callously overt and provable has been fought back or punished either.

But I sens some wounded ego on the other side of the phone as well. When we all settle down in calmer times this will be the minor tiff it appears to be. As for expecting a media communications director to satisfy this intervention in the midst of a row, I think you are asking too much of Bev who has not been granted enough support to expect this level of perfection in PR.

And damn it, the Dems themselves had studied and analysed 18 states post 2000, most of the current battlegrounds including Tennessee where the crap happened that probably stole the state. THOSE are the pros you should be phoning and questioning. The same who have not exactly opened the doors to Bev and went along with the HAVA game plan proposed by the friendly neighborhood GOP. Gore only embraced the Florida debacle rather naively and giving up votes all along the way. Where is the readiness this year for TOTAL eye opening confrontation by the DNC? They never wanted to do it, prevent it enough, or publicize the theft. And what has been gained except more disillusionment with their leadership?

Bev is simply trying to gain the principle of audit and the BBV danger. If that is buried at all the next stage will be the even "smoother" and comfortable online voting scam. Don't think the unthinkable won't happen when they can still get goons to push you around at your local precinct with total impunity.

By the way whenever I phone or talk to someone about something upsetting for one or both of us, it NEVER goes smoothly or satisfactorily. If it is smooth in fact, it leaves an aftertaste of foolish irrelevance and nothing accomplished. Friction is healthier.

[melissaf]

22. here's my take

Maybe it really isn't such a good idea to have Bev on a national news show. With all the stories I've been hearing (and granted, most seem to be second- and third-hand accounts), it seems like what Bev and BBV have going for them is their attack-dog style and tenaciousness with regard to litigation. This probably wouldn't play well on t.v., but so what? Not everyone is t.v. material. People are always bemoaning the fact that the left has no real army of attack dogs. Well, here's a woman who, at the very least, has _greatly_ raised the awareness of all of this e-voting crap that went on in the 2004 election, even if she seems a bit too in-your-face at times. That, to my mind, is valuable. Bev's already volunteered to do the dirty work; other people can play the good cop for the t.v. audience.

[Blue in the face]

24. I didn't have that experience

As I posted on another thread, I did the same thing. I expected to leave a message or talk to an associate, but I got Bev. My experience was completely the opposite of what Bernie talked about. I know you may vouch for his credibility, but I still find it odd that the same person who was so willing to listen to me and speak about what was going on was so completely rude and unwilling to listen to him.

I still think Bev needs a PR person and needs to get back to business, but I doubt that with the amount of negativity surrounding Bev right now that she is going to trust anyone to handle all of us well-meaning but distracting people who want to help but are mostly adding another ring to the circus.

[pauldp]

25. Here's the solution...

Bev should switch to decaf, and everyone should lay off her.

Lets focus on raising more people like Bev and Keith.

[Wiley50]

26. More Info

Folks,
As far as I know Bernie is the only other person in my county who gives a damn about the election being stolen. I joined BBV first but, when the Elections supervisor released the requested data it was Bernie who picked it up. I am APPALLED that the only person who I have to help me was treated this way by Bev.
We got that data two weeks ago. I've been trying to get my report to BBV since then with NO RESPONSE! A week ago, a person on the BBV board, who said they were personal freinds with Andy asked for my phone # and offered to relay it to Andy. I still have heard NOTHING!
I can take being ignored but, not having my only help here DISSED this way.
Call me whatever you want. I know who I am,

Wiley

[SueZhope]

29. what I heard about Andy

I heard that Andys sister passed away
this was on the Rhandi Rhodes show
yesterday. That could effect whats going on over there
also for she said he was still working.
not easy

[Stephanie]

39. I spoke to him yesterday - that is true

He has gone home to be with his family.

[eek]

30. umm, fwiw, I too think that the BBV site is quite... discombobulated.

Apart from the other stuff under "discussion" here today, I do find the BBV site un-useful as far as being something I would direct to laypersons.

To that, can anyone give me some suggested places where the election fraud basics are written in Big Crayons for the skeptical, TV-believin', average Joes and Janes?

Thanks.
Back to the mudd wrasslin'.

[AmyCrat]

33. Try this Website...

ElectionSquad.org

[Stephanie]

40. or these

http://www.verifiedvoting.org/

http://www.votermarch.org/

[pointsoflight]

31. Have to say that I'd be pissed if someone called my private cell.

Three minutes? That's longer than I would've given him.

[cyn2]

32. Why doesn't someone else call Bev

move the issue forward.

I can't do it, I'm lousey on the phone.

[IAMREALITY]

36. Ya know what? NO!

I'm fucking fed up with this whole childish battle already. Here I am today, waiting as always for important news, exciting developments, breaking stories, and each time I hit refresh I see another stupid friggin thread on this childish battle. Instead of fighting election fraud, we are now refereeing a celebrity death match. It's pathetic.

Sorry, but I have more important things to do then spend any more of my time on this distractionary BULLSHIT. Ya know, more important things, like SAVING DEMOCRACY! Oh yeah, remember that concept????

[Kelvin Mace]

37. Somebody did

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203

[thephaseshift]

35. Bev has posted again at BBV

...excuse me if this was already mentioned.
Check out what she says at the top of www.blackboxvoting.org

[Skinner]

42. Continue discussion here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x104119