Discuss Keith Olbermann and Bev Harris in this thread. #4

[Elad]

For reference:

Keith Olberman's blog: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240

Bev Harris's response: http://www.blackboxvoting.org

And I'd like to remind all participants in this discussion to please try to avoid the unhelpful personal attacks which were starting to appear in thread #3.

[jamboi]

1. Lets be practical! WA recount needs $$ NOW. Focus! Link

Details here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x103695

[IAMREALITY]

2. To BEFREE

"Maybe she is saving the tapes for a bigger program that KO's? "

That is the part that bothers me. What is this, tape to the highest bidder? My point is that who cares who it goes to, hell, it should go to EVERYBODY! From local channel Z to MSM. Online, offline, inline, whatever. Why does it have to be just one show? Why does it have to be selective? If it contains what it is alleged to contain (which I DO believe it does), why aren't there 1000 copies by now submitted to every damn outlet she could find an address for?

That is the only thing about this whole thing I don't understand. It just doesn't make sense.

[Ducks In A Row]

6. she doesn't trust the media and I don't blame her

and there's no bidding here. that's disrespectful to suggest it.


remember, keith oblermann is only in it for the ratings. so he needs bev desperately, so much he's made himself look a fool on his own blog.

[IAMREALITY]

10. OK

Fair Enough. (not the KO part)

My last question then is why is it not hosted on her site in full, where trust is not an issue?

[Ducks In A Row]

16. who's going to pay for that? and why waste the money now?

really, because it wouldn't stop with tape you know.

it's part of the game.

screaming and whine and bitch until you force out some stupid nothing concession, and then it's on to the next one. After of course nit picking on one tiny piece of the tape endlessly.

Think the Dean Scream.

Bev is right to stop at this point, and stay "nope, not playing that game"

[Cooley Hurd]

28. Ducks, what has Keith or his staff done to Bev that has made her...

...unwilling to show the poll tapes to him? I'm not flaming, I'm just curious. :shrug:

[Ducks In A Row]

53. did you read the two links at the top of the thread

[Cooley Hurd]

58. Yes, but you keep saying that her general distrust of MSM is...

...the reason she's not shown the poll tapes to KO. I would say, just by the mere fact that KO is discussing BBV at all, that his program should be considered to be above your average MSM. Which brings us back to the original question, why won't Bev show the Olbermann program the poll tapes?

I admire Bev and her mission, but this particlar episode is not flattering to Bev at all (after reading both links, and the previous threads).

[Ducks In A Row]

97. why all of sudden is MSM to be trusted and we're kooks for not.

media. whoring. for. bush.

remember?

someone like Keith throws us bones and we're suddenly supposed to turn over and drool for more?

sorry, but I won't let the media bastards screw with the fight against the fraud.

[LoZoccolo]

125. Why do you want to bury the story?

What will that accomplish?

Answer the question.

[Cooley Hurd]

138. What else do we have?

Gramma & Grampa Peorian don't generally don't read blogs.:shrug:

[Ducks In A Row]

123. here are links to answers she gave earlier in the day here

and a link to the Randi Rhodes interview

http://wilem.com/rrs/interviews/rrs_20041111_bevharris.mp3

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2777690#2777782

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2777690#2777866

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2777690#2777810

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2777690#2777908

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2777690#2778080

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2777690#2778159

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2777690#2778120

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2777690#2778146

[BeFree]

21. Why not displayed on her site?

For one thing, maybe releases need to be signed, or if they won't sign, the tape needs to be altered so their faces are not shown.

Who knows? One thing... why the rush to SEE THE TAPE? Hold yer horses, people. We will see the tape.

Meanwhile, I see we are being watched by the freepers. Aren't we a sight, busting on one of our own, especially one with such stature as Bev Harris. And for what reason? Simply that she is charting her own course without consulting the rest of us. Get a life yall.

[IAMREALITY]

27. I do want to make it clear

I am not busting on her. I respect her and what she is doing. I just needed logic to fill in the gaps of my question. That's all.

[BeFree]

49. That's cool

I noticed you weren't one of the nitpickers. Your question was reasonable. It's just that there are so many possible realities for answers.

[demobabe]

32. Filmed in a public place with news value

No releases need to be signed.

Yeah, we'll see the tapes... just like we've seen all the other information she's collected - NOT.

The rush to see the tape is it's newsworthiness, and Bev Harris's reputation is on the line.

If she doesn't show it, then she'll be written off as someone with a lot of show and no substance.

She's given us a lot of hype. It's time to produce.

It's not time for us to continually invent excuses for her.

[BeFree]

61. You are frustrated

We all are. We'd like to see something, anything nail the bastards.

Maybe she hyped it a bit too much? No crime there. Maybe some of us, and Bev, even, thought at the time that this would be icing on the cake, but looking at it later, it was just a smear? Ok, if it were me, I'd still try to make something of it: Play it out, milk it. Who knows?

Bev has produced plenty. She has gone well beyond the call of duty and she is having to manage, unfortunately, with what appears to be a crisis management style.

Cut her some slack, or the freepers will be broadcasting 'demobabe' across their web and making a fool out of you, too.

[theboss]

41. I'm glad you are confident we will see the tape....

I'm not quite there with you.

[cry baby]

82. KO doesn't need Bev for ratings...

She hasn't been on and his ratings are through the roof.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

3. Conservative forum mocks activist

From the ultra right wing forum Free Republic:

at this link: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1285583/posts#comment

Posted on 11/21/2004 6:23:31 PM PST by PJ-Comix


My DUmmie Ant Farm is all astir! A venomous scorpion in the form of Bev Harris of BBV fame is stinging my DUmmie Ants left and right lefter with her lethal stinger. So how did this scorpion entered the hallowed confines of the Dummie Ant Farm? Did she boldly invade? No. She was actually invited in by the DUmmies as a conquering heroine who would lead the DUmmie ants to overturn the election results and establish John Kerry as president in January. Not only did the Dummies hail the Bev Harris scorpion but they also fed her copious quantities of green bills which she ravenously consumed. And how did Bev Harris thank the DUmmies for there help in the form of MUCHOS PESOS? Why, she is threatening to SUE them as you can see on this THREAD. So pack up your box lunches, hitch up your horses to the carriages, and travel out to the battlefield to observe the DUmmies engaged in a brutal Civil War with each other. As usual, the DUmmie attacks are in Bolshevik Red while the reports of your humble war correspondent, observing the combat from a hilltop near Bull Run creek, is in the . And now, as the battle begins, DUmmie Eloriel makes a somewhat minor forward cavalry moment in advance of the main forces:


BBV Clean Up Crew -- URGENT HELP NEEDED HERE -- Requested by hedda_foil and Bev Harris, in order to put together a PR push against the media backlash against all of our efforts

The thread goes on and on, but basically it expresses glee that the activist community has such dissention going on. Read for yourself.

[Ducks In A Row]

5. great, the freepers come here to disrespect Bev, we defend her

and it's her fault.

[New Earth]

8. i hope everyone is satisfied with themselves now.

:mad: :eyes: :-(

[Ducks In A Row]

83. well I am. Happy to defend Bev, a great hard working exposer of fraud

[stepnw1f]

9. Don't Cry Out Loud...

Just keep it inside,
da da dada.... whistling.

Great song isn't it!

[SueZhope]

43. these people have to much time on there hands

"DUmmie Ant Farm is all astir"

That's one of the sickest things
I have heard in a long time

Whats so insane is they get of on this and talk about it
like some bad B movie

I guess there just afraid
of the reality that Mr bush is not
a legitimate president

Since Mr Bush is the big winner why do the
worry so much about DU?

[BeFree]

46. Yep, Bev screwed up

Bev's intent was to make sure that, down the line, there would be no confusion about the who, what and where of BBV.org originated and resides. She did not want any confusion to come about because of the use of the name on DU or any other place. That is good business practice. Did she go slightly overboard getting her point across? Yep.

Below is Bev's response to a DU member concerning BBV.org

MadFloridian: First of all, I am here in your state arranging for a hand count. Now, this isn't "talking to people that way." What do you think would happen if I started organizing a "PFAW Election Protection" group on DU? That trade name belongs to People for the American Way and their related entities. Surely you see that it would be nuts to just go in and take their trade name without permission? This is very important. Stuff like this can cause groups to lose their 501c(3) status. If we do not protect our own trade name, and publicly, all it takes is someone with good intentions encouraging something that is against our approved charter, and we lose our whole operation.


Like I say, just taking care of business, and I might add, she got it right the first time. There won't be any confusion down the line. If some Diebold lawyer could bring up the fact that BBV.org was not just Bev Harris and company, a judge could hand her a terrible setback on just that one technicallity.

What? You expected a hard driving person like Bev Harris to let something slip by her and end up screwing her royally?

[Name removed]

129. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeFree]

142. You are right

I should have never put that line in there. My apologies.

[Ducks In A Row]

4. americanstranger

still waiting for links.

I can't search DU

plus you mentioned it, so prove it

[KittyWampus]

15. You Could Search If You Donated, Like, A Dollar

[Ducks In A Row]

56. couple of things

my disposable income has gone to places like bbv, alliance of democracy, and one other I can't remember.

two, search is a basic function for a site. hell even the freepers have it. just the idea of paying for what the freepers get for free really irks, so I decided I can live with it.

[Kelvin Mace]

60. I offered them for free if you REALLY wanted them

Have you gone back to the earlier posts and read the links I did put up?

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Kelvin Mace]

19. Do you know how MANY times we have

PROVEN it?

Then some neo-phyte comes along and asks us to prove it again. I can post the links (and have already posted some of them if you bother to check earlier posts by me) but they will not make your hero look very good at all.

Now do you really want me digging into the archives? I also have a ton of email from Bev were she says things that will not refelect well on her at ALL. Do you REALLY want me to trot those out?

Tell you what. Go read some of my previous links and read them COMPLETELY. Then come back and tell me if you want more.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Ducks In A Row]

59. so you say you could prove it and won't?

ok, fine

so I have no reason to believe it's true then.

that's ok with me.

thanks.

[Kelvin Mace]

63. That was worthy of Rush Limbaugh

I offered to give you the links. I explained too you that these links would not make Bev look to good. I even offered you email, yet your DELIBERATELY distorted what I posted.

You haven't read the links already provided because you are not really intereted in the truth.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

edit: typo

[Ducks In A Row]

76. post the links then, I'm not stopping you

post them in your reply to this post.

[Kelvin Mace]

89. Did your read the ones already posted?

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Ducks In A Row]

144. you provided links in this thread? Ok, I'm confused

Anyways I don't do email here. I'm posting publicly, and I'd rather keep it that way. Wierd stuff happens in email.

again, I don't see any links here.

So I have no reason to believe whatever it was you implied.

[SomthingsGotaGive]

47. You don't even have to donate to search DU

Go to www.google.com use the advanced search functions and fill the site search box then the text search and
Bingo.

[Kelvin Mace]

57. But that is work

and these folks aren't really interested in the truth anyway.

Notice no repsonse to my offer to provide links if they REALLY want them?

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[SomthingsGotaGive]

68. Indeed

Seem answering direct questions is tuff as well.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=105121&mesg_id=105172


I see you helped with the who is BBV question by listing the BOD.

Any chance you could take a stab at any of the others?


How much oversight does the BOD have over BBV's daily activities and expenditures?

[Kelvin Mace]

86. Can't really as I am not privy to the bylaws

I have seen nothing of the FOIA requests as of yet. LePore stated in a news story that she was still trying to assemble the info and determine how much it would cost (which she said would have to be paid in advance)

I question the wisdom of such a shotgun approach since they can bury her with paper and soak up a LOT of money in the process. Once she gets the paperwork:

1) Who is going to analyze it?
2) How long will it take?
3) Will the folks who examine the paperwork actually have the expertise to understand what the are doing?
4) When will the paperwork be delivered?

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[crispini]

Re: links. Tell me.

I'm dying of curiosity. :evilgrin: And archive search is still off, anyway.

[americanstranger]

130. What's the use?

Your mind's made up.

David Allen offered the links to you. Did you take him up on it?

Thought not. Don't want to shake up your world, eh?

-as

[pleiku52cab]

7. Two sides to every story, but

I agree with Kieth to this extent - her latest actions will picture her, in the minds of much of the population, as either grandstanding or 'tin foiling'. Hopefully they can get together and she can show, on national TV, at least some of the facts she has already accumulated. P.S. does anyone have a link to that earlier TV appearance she made that shows the ease of hacking the black boxes?

[high density]

11. I believe Keith Olbermann

If you need to know why, you should read the convocation speech he gave at Cornell in 1998: http://www.news.cornell.edu/campus/Olbermann_speech.html (If you don't want to read it all, just read the part on the Monica Lewinsky scandal about 2/3rds into the speech.)

I don't think that Olbermann is going to make shit up. He has no reason to. For one thing, most of the country has NO CLUE who Bev Harris is, so it's hard to believe that he's following instructions from Karl Rove or GE to damage the "integrity" of somebody that virtually nobody knows. I do not know Mr. Olbermann, but I see no reason for him to put his own reputation on the line to slam Harris with bogus claims.

As for Bev Harris, I also do not know her. The little I've heard is that she has had some problem about a book deal and now she's having bizarre and mysterious problems over the Votergate videos or non-Votergate videos... Or some such BS that nobody wants to explain so that we can understand what is going on! There's so much über-secretive and counter-productive crap going on that makes me very concerned about the BBV investigation. The only concrete thing I've heard is about them busting into some retirement party like a bunch of crazy nuts.

This can all be settled very easily: Show us the tapes.

[pleiku52cab]

24. KKKKarl surely knows of her efforts

he would, and is undoubtedly even now, trying his utmost to discredit her.

[high density]

31. Utmost?

I must say this is a very disappointing Rove operation. The most Karl can do is to somehow get Keith Olbermann to raise doubts about her motivations in his show and blog?

Bull. Show us the tape of the garbage bag encounter. It seems like nothing too precious about the BBV investigation would be revealed by showing a few minutes of that tape.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

12. Deleted DU thread permenently stored at conservative forum

Perhaps folks should consider what damage has been done by certain threads. Again, while the origional thread has been dropped by DU, it is forever stored in what the Free Republic deems the
"DUmmie FUnnies Hall of Fame"

Part of the DU thread as posted in Free Republic:

"Meanwhile I will ignore your threat to sue. I am far from certain who you could possibly sue in these circumstances except Skinner.. and I suspect he would take a rather dim view of that approach."

"My suggestion is that the mods delete this thread and I try and find us a new name. And then we can get on with the matter at hand."

""

see the rest of the DU deleted thread as posted at Free Republic:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1285583/posts#comment

[jamboi]

13. Thank you for bringing this to attention. Sobering. n/t

[Maddy McCall]

40. Whaaat? Have you changed your position since last night?

Wonders never cease. :hi: :-)

[high density]

17. Who cares what the freepers think?

I don't. Plus it looks like Bev was acting like an asshole anyway.

[mzmolly]

20. I must say I'm disgusted with Bev Harris after reading this.

Threatening to sue people who are on the same side? :wtf:

"It aint about you bev its about democracy."

That pretty much sums it up for me. What a shame.

[Kelvin Mace]

48. Yes, over words she doesn't have really have

clean claim to.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Ducks In A Row]

65. protecting her not-for-profit status. what's so hard to understand?

and luckily she doesn't let this crap stop her from uncovering fraud.

which I thank the universe for.

[mzmolly]

70. If you read the thread, it appears to be about more than protecting

her "not for profit" status?

Additionally, she should have had the common sense to handle any such issue privately. She can PM can she not?

I am certain that the DU-ers she berated could have been contacted privately and would have preferred it so.

[BeFree]

98. Bev screwed up? Yes

Bevs intent was to make sure that, down the line, there would be no confusion about the who, what,when and where BBV.org originated and resides. She did not want any confusion to come about because of the use of the name on DU or any other place. That is good business practice. Did she go slightly overboard getting her point across? Yep.

Below is Bev's response to a DU member concerning BBV.org

MadFloridian: First of all, I am here in your state arranging for a hand count. Now, this isn't "talking to people that way." What do you think would happen if I started organizing a "PFAW Election Protection" group on DU? That trade name belongs to People for the American Way and their related entities. Surely you see that it would be nuts to just go in and take their trade name without permission? This is very important. Stuff like this can cause groups to lose their 501c(3) status. If we do not protect our own trade name, and publicly, all it takes is someone with good intentions encouraging something that is against our approved charter, and we lose our whole operation.


Like I say, just taking care of business, and I might add, she got it right the first time. There won't be any confusion down the line. If some Diebold lawyer could bring up the fact that BBV.org was not just Bev Harris and company, a judge could hand her a terrible setback on just that one technicallity.

What? You expected a hard driving person like Bev Harris to let something slip by her and end up screwing her royally?

[Broken Acorn]

33. Who cares

what the freepers think? They're dumbasses anyways. And don't worry, our threads aren't going to make CNN.

[Maddy McCall]

44. Why go to FR to get it. HERE IT IS AT DU. BEV THREATENS TO SUE DU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=3300

[Ducks In A Row]

62. so you're with Bev's org losing her not-for-profit status?

well I'm not and if that's what it takes to stop people was screwing around with the org's name, that's what she need to do.

[saracat]

14. Please Be More Constructive. Help this reporter.

while everyone is arguing about Bev and Keith, this is a credible reporter who needs our help. This is the North Country News in Westchester NY the only ones who have been really writing about this story. His name is Adam Stone . His email is Adam Stone <[e-mail] >


thanks for the kudos...

Possible follow ups: I'm working on

DNC talks.

Mainstream media silence.

Thoughts from local Congresswomen, Sue Kelly and Nita Lowey. Schumer and
Hillary, too, perhaps.

Anything you or others can do to help would be appreciated.

Please forward me the latest items from mainsream media on the topic. Not
opinion, just news items

An item below that might be of interest.

Adam

914 962 4748 x280

Robert Mueller, Director
Federal Bureau of Investigation
c/o White Plains Office
222 Bloomingdale Road
White Plains, New York

Dear Director Mueller:

On behalf of myself and other concerned citizens of Westchester County,
New York, I implore the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to urgently
and intensively investigate evidence of widespread conspiracy to tamper with
votes and suppress voting in the 2004 Presidential election.

We request that the FBI immediately send additional agents to Ohio and
Florida, key electoral states where there are indications of gross tampering
and suppression.

In Ohio, for example, in 29 Cayuhoga County (Cleveland) precincts,
93,136 more votes were recorded than there are registered voters. In
addition to suspicious electronic vote counting, there were significant
problems in Ohio with the mechanics of voting, such as malfunctioning
machines and problems with poll log books.

It has been reported that J. Kenneth Blackwell, Ohio's chief election
official and the Ohio Bush-Cheney campaign chair, ensured there were ample
voting machines in Republican areas and a shortage of machines in
low-income and African-American areas, as well as areas expected to have a
high turnout of young voters. In spite of an increase in voter registration
in Ohio, fewer machines were said to have been provided than in 2000.

Werner Lange, a Youngstown pastor, said at hearings held November 13 by
the Ohio Election Protection Coalition that less than half of the usual
number of voting machines were available in one African-American community.
"This," he said, "caused an enormous bottleneck among voters who had to wait
a very, very long time to vote, many of them giving up in frustration and
leaving." He estimated that 7,000 votes were lost to Senator John Kerry in
Youngstown alone, due to insufficient voting machines.

Carol Shelton, presiding judge at a precinct in Columbus, said voting
machines were insufficient, that she called for more machines and was sent
one, "which did not make a dent in the line...This was a clear case of
voter
suppression by making voting an impossibility for anyone who had to go to
work or anyone who was stuck at home caring for children or the elderly
while another family member voted."

In Florida, initial counts showed 237,522 more votes cast for president
than there were people casting ballots. The state altered the vote count to
eliminate county discrepancies after independent researchers began to point
out contradictions. Keith Olbermann, reporting for MSNBC, found: "On the
same Florida Democratic ballots where Bush scored big, people supported
highly Democratic measures- such as raising the state minimum wage $1 above
the federal level. This indicates that only the presidential voting was
rigged."

In addition, an unknown number of Florida voters, particularly in
African-American communities, were effectively disenfranchised by long
waiting lines and faulty equipment. There is no reason for these
conditions to have existed in Florida after the experience of 2000 other
than because of official conspiracy to suppress the vote.

Discrepancies between exit polls and tallies from electronic voting
machines leaving no paper trails indicate the need for investigations in
Minnesota, New Mexico, Nevada, Wisconsin, Colorado, North Carolina, Iowa,
New Hampshire and Pennsylvania.

We request that the FBI interview, in addition to public officials,
employees of firms involved in electronic voting in the 2004, the most
prominent including: Diebold Election Systems; Election Systems and
Software; Science Applications International Corporation, Sequoia Voting
Systems; and VoteHere Inc.

And, we ask the FBI to determine whether national voting laws have been
violated and to what degree, if any, there was central direction of vote
tampering and vote suppression.

Sincerely,


Nick Mottern

----- Original Message -----

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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
Version: 6.0.804 / Virus Database: 546 - Release Date: 11/30/2004




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[WillYourVoteBCounted]

18. Freepers observations, not mine, they call this DUmmie FUnnies

This is what the freepers say, not me. I am telling you so as to illustrate what happens with this kind of thing. You judge and decide for yourself. Just showing you that the DU is not a private forum.

HERE FREEPERS ADVISE THEY WILL PRESERVE THE RANCOR EXHIBITED ON DU FORUM. I do not attribute blame to anyone, get it?
Just read their words:

""

link: ( http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1285583/posts#comment )
or
( http://tinyurl.com/5kuz5 )

[high density]

23. Yes, you just posted this earlier in this thread

We know that the freepers read this forum and that this is a public forum that anybody can read. What is your point? The formatting is horrible so I didn't read much of it, but what I saw shows a case of Bev Harris once again overreacting to something. It kind of reminds me of the nasty comment she posted on her website about Keith Olbermann today (which has since been toned down a bit.)

[Ducks In A Row]

64. who cares what freepers think?

they're morons who are cowards willing to let others die for them in iraq, just like their traitor deserter prez.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

22. watching your enemies eat themselves

Freepers on DU activists fray:

"To: PJ-Comix
There is nothing more satisfying than watching your enemies eat themselves."

6 posted on 11/21/2004 6:37:20 PM PST by CzarNicky (The problem with bad ideas is that they seemed like good ideas at the time.)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies >

(http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1285583/posts#comment)

[ohio_liberal]

66. Please

Stop with the FR links

[propagandafreegal]

25. I'm hanging in there with Bev...nm

[propagandafreegal]

26. Plus, I heard her on Air America a while back and she was canceled from

countdown because they didn't want her to speak her mind and use the word 'fraud'.

[New Earth]

29. i heard that too, but she didn't say that's what MSNBC said

she said that's what she thought their reason probably was.

[propagandafreegal]

30. Thanks for the clarification! I love this board! :) nm

[Shopaholic]

37. I still don't get why we all have to agree with one another on this

subject. I don't want to believe every single thing I'm told even if it is from a fellow liberal. I want to ask hard questions and have them answered. Yes, I want proof and my question is this--and I've been asking it all damned day long and no one seems to have an answer-if Bev has this proof then why the hell hasn't she turned it over to the Kerry Lawyers or the DNC or whoever? Hell, give it to the NY Times, the Washington Post, and yes, Olbermann. Wouldn't as much publicity that you could get be a good thing for the cause?

[crispini]

45. Thank you, Shopaholic.

We don't have to agree. That's why we're Democrats.

And for the Freepers who are watching these threads, fuck 'em. Not like they haven't had an occasional meltdown themselves.

[Kelvin Mace]

54. We keep asking that question and we get :

1) Soon!
2) Bev is developing more evidence.
3) How dare you question Bev's motives!
4) Freeper/Rove SCUM!!!

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Ducks In A Row]

78. this the Randi interview with Bev

http://wilem.com/rrs/interviews/rrs_20041111_bevharris.mp3

and she's call about how they avoid having her on

the part about come to us when you have a bow on it.

[Kelvin Mace]

51. Already disproven

They have used the word fraud themselves on Countdown.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

EDIT: typo

[Ducks In A Row]

80. they used it this week. he avoided the word well before that

http://wilem.com/rrs/interviews/rrs_20041111_bevharris.mp3

that's randi's interview with bev. listen for yourself.

it was a great interview and gee Randi didn't have any trouble getting her on the air.

maybe because there no thought of censoring Bev.

[Maddy McCall]

34. I'm baaaaack! So, where's the Bev?

So, where's bev? Has she responded to any of these charges today? Oh, wait, let me guess--she tossed everyone some more crumbs...some new info that will break this election wide open?

Am I close?

[Kelvin Mace]

35. Actually she did

but not here, over in the GD forum.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Maddy McCall]

38. Of course...but was I close? Is she in "cover her ass" mode by...

developing a new crisis to distract everyone from this one?

[tbuddha]

69. I spoke with Bev this morning

If you want her phone number ask for my number and call me.

I think it is silly that you are ragging on her. What for? Does she really bother you? She is investigating issues of fraud and has proof of it in Volusia County and has filed cases in court over what she has.

Just because she doesn't want to show you that makes her fake? Ask ANY lawyer if they divulge info they don't need to before a case. They'll tell you you're crazy. The polling tapes aren't gonna do any good other than in Volusia County anyway, so it's a moot point as far as flipping the election.

[theboss]

75. Going out on a limb: I think David has her number

Call me crazy, but I bet he could reach her if he wanted.

I still don't know why you are her mouthpiece here. That's what I find fascinating.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tbuddha]

114. No reason except that I think she is doing good work

I don't see you doing anything. Her website got a lot of work done on it before it got hacked to death, and she has laid out a lot of investigative groundwork. I've spoke with her and I find her to be a reasonable, intelligent lady.

[Kelvin Mace]

121. All work on this problem

does not begin and end with Bev Harris.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Kelvin Mace]

You couldn't get me to dial

that number if you held a gun to my cat's head and my cat agrees with that view.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[eowyn_of_rohan]

119. She has at least 1 sockpuppet here, I've been told

(Thanks to whoever it was who told me what sockpuppet means recently)

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeFree]

85. CYA mode

Who cares?. Bev could walk away from it all right now and have still done a hundred times more than most of us.

Ya ever hear of PJ_comix? Interesting name, eh?

[Broken Acorn]

36. Show the Tapes or never mention them in the first place

Plain and Simple.

No more discussion needed.

[Maddy McCall]

39. I'm with ya. And welcome to DU.

:hi: :toast:

[tbuddha]

74. I think she'll do whatever she wants with her site

You are not the boss of her, so why are you making demands?

She posted that to show that she found evidence of fraud. It turns out the evidence she founds only pertains to Volusia and that type of fraud did not occur in other counties, so it is useless as far as flipping the election. She IS investigating other issues though and we may hear about those soon.

Just so you know, I have contact with her and know she is a good person who is doing all she can to prove voter fraud. A lot of people want to sit at their computers and armchair quarterback. Bev realizes this and really doesn't care what you think.

[pleiku52cab]

42. to my freeper friends, post this

I sure wish people would stop calling you trolls. It is totally unfair to trolls, who are after all, only crosses between dwarfs and evil humans who slavishly follow orders (kinda' reminds me of Sieg Heil don't you think). I much prefer sniveling, slobbering, brain dead, repulsive, corrupt cross between orcs and evil humans - all hail the Uruk-hai and their evil masters who plan the ultimate destruction of decades of humanities painfully slow progress toward a more just nation and world.

[Kelvin Mace]

50. Care to elaborate

on who you feel are the trolls?

Again, the Mods do a DAMN GOOD job of weeding out freepers and trolls. Or are we to assume the Mods work for Karl Rive as well?

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Broken Acorn]

55. Freepers/trolls

are anyone who don't agree with their point of view.

Isn't democracy great?

[pleiku52cab]

67. thought the phrase meant freepers 'trolling' our site

[SueZhope]

52. Jeepers, creepers

whered ya get them FREEPERS
I had that song in my head all day
I like your post

[SueZhope]

71. you guys have you seen this?

have you read Keith new post
about Bev & protecting his people?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/

One final note here. I should clarify what I wrote in this space last night about Countdown’s interaction with Bev Harris of Black Box Voting. My staff is not certain that any of our messages to Ms. Harris inviting her on the show since the week of November 15 have specifically asked her for permission to play the videotapes of her work trying to audit the Florida vote. We think so, but I’ve got only three people booking all the guests on this program, and they each probably make about 100 calls a day.

Complicating our effort is the fact that even as we hoped to provide a platform to publicize and illuminate her efforts, Ms. Harris had returned none of the messages left on her own voicemail by Countdown staffers since she spoke to our staffers briefly, twice, during the week of November 8. Only today did she even get back in touch with us, and was so belligerent, threatening, and demanding, that we have chosen to withdraw our invitation to her to appear, or to have videotape of her efforts played, on Countdown.

Threats against myself or my staff will not be tolerated. We are not only busting our humps on the voting irregularities beat, but we remain the only mainstream news organization to continue to cover this vital story. These are my people — they are running professional risks I can’t begin to describe — and I will stand up for them, first, last, and always.

[ohio_liberal]

73. Oh no....

This is not good. :(

[Broken Acorn]

77. Well, looks like I was right

Bev is a fraud :(

[tbuddha]

87. Bev is not a fraud

You've all been saying that she didn't want to go on the show coz "Keith said so". Well, it turned out that wasn't the case. And as far as the messages on her voicemail, Bev never got them.

I find it interesting that yesterday Keith said that Bev refused to hand over tapes. Today, they can't remember if they ever asked.

My only complaint about Bev is that she got a little too hostile with them this morning. She could have been a little more understanding. I forgive though.

I get pissed when people lie about me too. Besides, I owe her a lot.

[theboss]

Seriously, who the hell are you?

I'm not being accusatory, but I don't know why you are her spokesmen and - quite possibly - her ward.

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tbuddha]

106. I know I gave you my number

and would appreciate not directly attacking me by calling me mini-bev

[tbuddha]

104. I told you that you could call me if you want

I believe I already sent you a PM with my number..you and others...yet no one wants to call. If you have questions about me you can call and ask away.

[Maddy McCall]

93. Bev's a fraud. Deal with it.

[tbuddha]

109. Deal with what? I don't see how she is

and no one has shown me how she is a fraud yet

[smartvoter]

112. And a PR Fraud too. No PR rep would be this stupid.

[tbuddha]

117. Why do you think she is stupid? That is a pretty coarse remark

considering she's the one who got the ball rolling on the whole Black Box Voting issue. Hell, she coined the term.

[smartvoter]

126. Shutting the door to the only MSM exposure we have is dumb.

This is a no-brainer.

[Maddy McCall]

79. KICK ASS, KEITH! She threatened him, too. What a buffoon she is.

God I wish someone else would have taken charge of the movement that was born at DU.

[righteous1]

88. And so this inflated pi$$in match escalates n/t

[tbuddha]

92. Bev started BBV...that's why she owns the trademark

BBV wasn't born in DU...BBV has been around for almost 2 years and was founded by Bev Harris. I'd love it if you would call me. I'd love to talk to you on the phone. I'll PM you my number.

BTW, she threatened a libel suit for lying about her n his blog last night.

[theboss]

You are about to cause a shit storm....

Just sayin'...

[Maddy McCall]

110. He has no knowledge of how DU started this.

He's totally ignorant. HE's defending someone he knows NOTHING about.

Wonder how much Bev's paying him.

[tbuddha]

120. Ok...please tell me how DU started BBV

[theboss]

128. Hasn't this been covered repeatedly today?

Go through the threads.

[smartvoter]

118. And you wonder why he says enough is enough?

We saw here throw legal threats around here too. I think you mean well, and I admire your spunk, but if you don't see why this turn of events has had this result, you're too close to BBV.

[tbuddha]

127. Just not that close to you guys...

You haven't done anything to make me feel better about proving voter fraud. Absolutely nothing. Tell me one thing you have uncovered. Bev has done tons of investigating. Who got Howard Dean on Topic A? Bev, not DU.

I appreciate her work. To complain about her is to be an ingrate.

[Kelvin Mace]

134. Really?

BBV wasn't born in DU...BBV has been around for almost 2 years and was founded by Bev Harris.

Since I coined the term and the abbreviation, that's interesting.

BTW, she threatened a libel suit for lying about her n his blog last night.

Oh, she does that about once a week. She has yet to file a single suit.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[tbuddha]

81. sounds like he lied then

On his last post he said that she refused to g on with the tapes, now they don't remember. This is why Bev was "belligerent". She could have been more calm this morning I'm sure, but she's human. The way Keith put it out there last night made her out to be a fraud that got you all saying she didn't want to go on and put up or shut up. It pissed her off. It pissed me off too.

Her threats were that she would sue for libel. I told her this morning myself that that was a little too much and though she didn't say so she agreed.

In short, Keith spoke out when he shouldn't have. Bev got too worked up about it. They should both kiss and make up, but they are both too stubborn.

[Maddy McCall]

84. LOL! Only YOU would see it that way.

Go to bed. Try to find a shred of objectivity while you are there.

[tbuddha]

100. explain how what he did wasn't dishonest

First he said:

Each and every day since our coverage of all this began on November 8, I have received a set of emails, some times a few, some times many, asking “Why don’t you have Bev Harris on Countdown?,” “Why don’t you run the Bev Harris videotapes?,” “Why don’t you show the voting tapes Bev Harris found discarded in the trash in Florida?”

Because she won’t let us.

I have not dealt with Ms. Harris directly, but my staff has, and though we have asked her on a regular basis to let us show these tapes on national television, she has declined.

then he said:

One final note here. I should clarify what I wrote in this space last night about Countdown’s interaction with Bev Harris of Black Box Voting. My staff is not certain that any of our messages to Ms. Harris inviting her on the show since the week of November 15 have specifically asked her for permission to play the videotapes of her work trying to audit the Florida vote.

[Maddy McCall]

113. LOGIC 101 - You can't prove a negative.

The bev fucked up again. Deal with it.

[tbuddha]

133. Keith LIED

If I told the world that someone did something they didn't, then that's a lie. Plain and simple.

I have nothing to deal with. Why are you so upset anyway?

[crispini]

111. Duuuuuuude.

You wrotet: "I told her this morning myself that that was a little too much and though she didn't say so she agreed. "

Whhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

She telepathically told you she agreed?

Please explain how she agreed, without speaking to you. I'm curious. Especially since, you know, it was over the phone, i.e. no nonverbal cues, etc.

[Maddy McCall]

115. He is Mini-Bev. He is one with The Bev.

HAHAHAHA! ;-)

[tbuddha]

I'm hurried and wrote that wrong...sorry

Takes a lot of energy trying to defend her from all you mucky mucks

What I meant was that she seemed to cool off about it. She was pissed saying things like she was upset that he would lie about her refusing to go on and that was libel and he needs to retract..yada yada. So I said that's not gonna happen and she should just let it die and she paused for a bit and quit talking about it.

[smartvoter]

122. In another post, you just said yourself she was threatening.

Come on. You can't have it both ways.

[tbuddha]

140. She was threatening him...did I say otherwise

She was pissed he lied about her refusing to come on the show. They hadn't contacted her. She thought what he was doing was libel.

[SueZhope]

137. Its very sad

lets say Bev has wonderful things to offer but she scares people away
I think it would be wise for her to try and make amends with Keith
for the bigger picture.

He has the audience Bev does not
We need the truth to get out.
.time for her to try and be flexible

[tbuddha]

145. Yeah, she mighta scared Keith off. But I don't think she cares

I think Keith will go on reporting his thing and that's fine. The issue Bev is working on I don't feel is going to do much to flip the election unless this "other lead" she told me about comes through.

The Volusia county polling tapes are only going to prove fraud amongst the Volusia election officials and will only account for about 20,000 votes for Kerry. Not even close to flipping it. She is working on other counties though

[high density]

132. That's what I figured, and I certainly don't blame Keith/Countdown crew

Olbermann is right: "We remain the only mainstream news organization to continue to cover this vital story." And Bev Harris just pissed them off. What a stupid thing to do.

[pipes]

136. I knew that would happen this morning...

Calle it in a different thread...Can't rightly shit where you eat!

Hopefully something else good will happen here, I think that she is Tin foiled for ever!

Too bad really, because she was onto something to help out our democracy! It aint about Keith or BBV or whatever, bottom line is that we did have a voice for the world existing simotaneously in the relm of reality and tin foil hattery but now the news on Countdown will only be news!

Thank you Keith for all that you have done!

[NJ_Lib]

139. Sorry, dupe...

[Malva Zebrina]

72. The last thing we need is someone who uses such drama

and goes to extremes to present her case on the job re the vote counts. The evidence of her vaudeville like approach is building. It is approching the bizarre and is almost embarrassing.

We do not need a drama queen who drags along TV cameras with her, who seems to be more interested in the sensationalist image of digging around in garbage bags and declaring with great diatribes, absolute proof of fraud that results from that garbage picking, yet shows nothing of the proof.

We do not need a woman sneaking in a hotel through back doors to crash a meeting, grabbing the mic, and declaring she is there to deliver a subpoena personally to Le Pore, with the greatest of drama and fanfare, when that subpeona was already delivered previously to LePore's lawyer. It was a bizarre act and does not bode well for the cause.

She is, rather, hurting the cause with set ups like this.

[tbuddha]

103. She's not working for you...she is doing this to show voter fraud

If you don't like how she's doing it, then start your own investigation.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

108. ok then she can use her own money, and return the money back to the donors

[Hobbes199]

91. Eek. Everyone crapping on that bit today should be ashamed.

And send out emails to both parties urging them to reconcile.

[e-mail]

[e-mail]

[Broken Acorn]

94. It's over

KO smoked her out of her hole.

[Hobbes199]

101. Just send the emails.

And do something constructive. These threads were a waste all day long.

[Maddy McCall]

105. Have you seen Keith's updated message? She's threatened him now.

He's not going to touch her with a ten-foot pole. And all of us, all along, who watched her imploding knew that the result of her "leading the charge" would be this.

Damnit. I hate it.

[stepnw1f]

95. I Love When Freepers Try to Raid Us

It means we are definitely onto something that frighten them.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

99. yeah especially when they attack KO credibilty. Sheesh nt

[AmyCrat]

107. KO's updated Blog (12/2) in response to Bev

Link here: www.bloggermann.com

12/2/04-8:13pm
One final note here. I should clarify what I wrote in this space last night about Countdown’s interaction with Bev Harris of Black Box Voting. My staff is not certain that any of our messages to Ms. Harris inviting her on the show since the week of November 15 have specifically asked her for permission to play the videotapes of her work trying to audit the Florida vote. We think so, but I’ve got only three people booking all the guests on this program, and they each probably make about 100 calls a day.

Complicating our effort is the fact that even as we hoped to provide a platform to publicize and illuminate her efforts, Ms. Harris had returned none of the messages left on her own voicemail by Countdown staffers since she spoke to our staffers briefly, twice, during the week of November 8. Only today did she even get back in touch with us, and was so belligerent, threatening, and demanding, that we have chosen to withdraw our invitation to her to appear, or to have videotape of her efforts played, on Countdown.

Threats against myself or my staff will not be tolerated. We are not only busting our humps on the voting irregularities beat, but we remain the only mainstream news organization to continue to cover this vital story. These are my people — they are running professional risks I can’t begin to describe — and I will stand up for them, first, last, and always.

[Broken Acorn]

116. No more BBV updates to get excited about

No credibility = tin foil hat syndrome

[EFerrari]

124. I wonder why someone as professional as KO

would offer subjective opinion and details of his booking process? Is that news? How does his blog "illuminate" the story he is reporting?

I still don't know what these two are up to. But both are behaving badly, unprofessionally.

[IAMREALITY]

131. Actually considering the circumstances

I thought KO's response was extremely professional, well-mannered, and reserved.

I'll be damned if I could muster that patience if someone treated me like that...

[smartvoter]

135. Amen to that. That we even have to say it is just crazy...

[theboss]

141. I think he's been inundated with emails telling him to book her

He's explaining why she hasn't appeared.

[DubyaSux]

143. My analysis...

Bev:
Black Box Voting requests retraction from Keith Olbermann, along with an explanation of why MSNBC alleged such an untruth. We have given Olbermann the opportunity to correct his factually flawed editorial by having Bev Harris appear on his show.

Keith:
Bite me

[Elad]

146. Continue here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x106221