Was their fraud in the Gregoire election?

[propagandafreegal]

I know the counts were close but I haven't heard any issues of Voter fraud in this case.

[joeybee12]

1. If we do a hand count, then we'll know for sure if there was--I mainly

think it's an issue of the crappy Diebold computers not reading ballots that were clearly marked--should be enough to put Christine over the top.

[jamboi]

19. I guess we're likely to find out, if we get the money for the recount. n/t

[tsuki]

2. If Bushco had anything to do with it, can you doubt it.

[berniew1]

3. Many states have some punch cards in urban precincts. If so, Dem won.

It sounded like Washington had punch card system in some urban counties. If this is so, hanging chads usually swing the vote to Dems because thats were the high percentage Dem votes are.
Does anyone know what type of voting system Washington counties have?

[shakerbaker]

4. The systems are different

from county to county. Here is Whatcom co we had punch card(and no I didn't have any hanging chads).I know in Spokane Co that my sister used the machines with connecting the arrows.

[eek]

5. pardon me...is the recount for sure on? was the money

raised? I'm not in WA but they mentioned on our local NPR that she was about 100k short.
I wanted to send a little her way if still needed.


How come she has to pony up when the number of votes is so very teeny?


Thanks, eek

[shakerbaker]

8. She has scheduled a press conference

for 2pm pst according to KING 5 TV to presumably announce her demand for a recount. According to the report not only did Kerry contribute to raise the necessary funds but so did Howard Dean.

To Everyone that's helped-Thanks from this Washingtonian. We're going to expose Rossi for the Dubbya Dog he is.

[claudiajean]

10. Because it's a second recount.

The first recount narrowed the margin, but did not change the outcome. Rossi (the Republican) won the original count by 261 votes, and he won the first recount by 42 votes.

Under Washington law, a third count (second recount) must be paid for by the requesting party. A certified deposit or bond is made to begin the recount.

HOWEVER, if the recount changes the outcome, then the money paid for the recount is refunded by the state. So if Christine Gregoire wins the third recount, the Dems get all their money back.


Edited for clarity

[Jersey Devil]

16. My understanding is the 1st recount is a machine recount

and that the ballots are simply fed through the machines again (where that is appropriate such as in punch card districts) and that a 2nd recount, the one at issue, is a hand recount similar to what was done (well, almost done) in Fla in 2000, looking for undervotes on punchcards or optical scan votes not recorded or miscounted by the machines, etc.

[claudiajean]

17. Yes, that is partially accurate in this instance.

The first recount was a machine recount because the margin (261 votes) didn't meet the Washington threshold for a hand recount which is 150 votes.

However, the recanvass you are speaking of (looking for unintentional over and under votes) is supposed to take place during the course of any recount, hand or machine.

Some Washington counties recanvassed during the first recount, some did not. That is one of the election anomalies the Demos legal team is pursuing and one of the reasons for believing that results may differ in another recount.

A hand recount is also more accurate than a machine count as even the best of machines have 1 in 10,000 votes that are not read properly when marked properly. 42 votes is well within the 1/10,000 vote natural machine error range in the largest county, King County, alone. (88 votes is one in 10,000 in King)

[Jersey Devil]

18. Thanks for the explanation (nt)

x

[claudiajean]

20. Kick

[claudiajean]

7. All of the urban centers have optical scan voting...

Seattle-Bellevue: King County = Diebold optical scan

Tacoma: Pierce County = ES&S optical scan

Everett: Snohomish County = Sequoia touchscreens at the polls, ES&S optical scans for absentees (absentees are 65% of the voters in Washington state)

Spokane: Spokane County= Sequoia optical scan

[LisaM]

6. We had optical scan machines (I am in King County)

However, the ballot was extremely long and it took me quite a bit of time to fill out (and I know what I'm doing.) I think that it's quite likely there are some votes that weren't picked up by the readers.

[claudiajean]

9. 1 in every 10,000 properly marked votes are missed...

... when ballots are run on the Diebold optical scanners. This is documented by past experience in King County and elsewhere using the Diebold OS systems.

I don't know what crack Dean Logan was smoking when he told the press that "the machines counts will be more accurate than a hand count would be."

He knows that is false. Why lie to the press?

He's supposedly a Democrat.

[LisaM]

11. Yes, there's something the matter with him (Logan)

I don't like him much and it pissed me off when he spouted off that lie and let Chris Vance (head of the state GOP) pick it up.

[claudiajean]

13. His remark was picked up nationally...

My (ahem) conservative relatives in red, red Texas saw it last night on Fox News.

The Freepers are making mucho hay about "even the DEMOCRATIC Election Director is against another recount and says it will not be as accurate as the machine count!"

So, basically, thanks to Logan's mouth, if Christine properly wins the hand recount, the GOP will be in a position to question her legitimacy (and muck up public opinion) because of his statements. Statements that were factually inaccurate based upon documentation from his own office on the reader tolerances and error rate of the optical scan devices.

With "friends" like that, who needs enemies?

:eyes:

[Casablanca]

15. Yeah, but the WA Dems also have fighters like Berendt.

And until 5pm PST it doesn't matter what lameassed comments Logan thinks of to say, it matters what the grassroots can raise for a recount.

[shakerbaker]

12. KING 5 also says that if Gregoire should win the recount

that in all liklihood it would contested in court.

[Casablanca]

14. Good. Bring it on.

Sounds like another good opportunity to give the election fraud evidence some visibility. We have fewer crypto-fascist Klansmen masquerading as judges here than in Florida.

It's also a good opportunity for the WA Dems to make the following facts clear:

1. Gregoire and the WA Dems ran the campaign to defend the principle of 1 person, 1 vote. (Repugs aren't, or they would be contributing to the recount fund.)
2. Gregoire and the WA Dems also ran the campaign to keep Rossi and the Repugs out of the governorship.
3. The issues of 1. and 2. are inseparably linked.

I'm 100% positive that the closer the vote is looked at, the more evidence of Repub-backed (whether from the party or just individual Repug operatives) voting fraud will be uncovered. That, in and of itself, is worth $1.5 million and the supposed pain of a recount.

The only people that suffer from recounts is Repugs. And Repugs are the only people that will suffer in a court case where evidence of voter fraud, discovered in the process of a hand recount, is allowed as evidence.

Nail 'em.