Ohio recount AFTER Dec. 13?

[Eric J in MN]

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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041204/ap_on_el_pr/ohio_vote

AP: "400 Demand Recount at Ohio Statehouse"

A recount would likely not begin before Dec. 13, when Ohio's 20 electoral votes are officially counted.
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Why not start the recount on Monday?

[LisaL]

1. Because the judge ruled that Green Party candidates

could not demonstrate they would be harmed if recount starts on Dec 13, since they are so far behind there is no way they could catch up with Bush.

[Eric J in MN]

2. Why doesn't Kerry go to court today on that and demand

an immediate recount?

[LisaL]

4. Beats me. I am not Kerry, so how will I know.

[righteous1]

9. Judge Sargus ruled against an immediate recount yesterday

[Eric J in MN]

10. Kerry should join an appeal.

The recount needs to take place before the electors meet, not after.

[bones_7672]

13. Because today's Saturday and Kerry's Kerry. n/t

[libmeayer]

25. Because he does not want to.

[Leilani]

3. I thought Kerry/Edwards had joined the suit?

Or did I misunderstand?

[LisaL]

5. In support of Greens, I guess. Kerry personally did not ask for

a recount.

[Eric J in MN]

6. According to this article, Kerry joined a lawsuit that Delaware County

Ohio need to be re-counted.

However, the article says nothing about Kerry sueing to start the re-count on Monday.

Kerry camp joins lawsuit in Ohio

The Associated Press

COLUMBUS, Ohio — Sen. John Kerry's campaign has joined a lawsuit by third-party presidential candidates seeking a re-count in Ohio. An attorney for the campaign said Thursday that the campaign does not question the Democrat's loss but wants any counting to take place statewide.

Kerry's campaign this week joined the lawsuit filed by Green and Libertarian party candidates seeking a re-count of the vote in Delaware County. A judge in that county issued a restraining order blocking that request, but the order expired Thursday. A hearing is set in federal court in Columbus today on the re-count request.

“The Kerry-Edwards campaign felt it had to intervene,” said Daniel Hoffheimer, a Cincinnati lawyer who represents the campaign in Ohio. “We did not want a re-count to go forward if it only was 87 (of Ohio's 88) counties.”

The two minor parties also have asked for a statewide re-count, but a judge ruled that cannot begin until Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell certifies the vote, likely on Monday. The parties say they have raised the $113,600 fee the state requires to conduct the re-count.

[Leilani]

7. So then, I think we're right back where we started..

I thought Kerry had joined a suit for a statewide recount.

[Stand and Fight]

8. Nope.

Just the suit in Delaware county.

[Leilani]

11. Wow, now I'm mad all over again!

But, I'm not surprised.

[rodeodance]

29. ederal Court Strikes Order Stopping Recount, Sets Hearing

A federal judge set a hearing on Friday in Ohio
Dec-02-04
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/WO0412/S00043.htm

Federal Court Strikes Order Stopping Ohio Recount
Friday, 3 December 2004, 4:50 pm
Press Release: United States Green Party

Federal Court Strikes Order Stopping Recount, Sets Hearing

A federal judge today declined to extend a temporary restraining order against Green Party presidential candidate David Cobb, Libertarian Michael Badnarik and their legal counsel, the National Voting Rights Institute, which had been preventing them from seeking a recount of the presidential vote in Delaware County, Ohio. The judge set a hearing for Friday at 2:30 p.m., at the U.S. Courthouse in Columbus, Ohio to consider the matter further.

On November 23, at the request of the Delaware County Board of Elections, a Delaware County judge issued a temporary restraining order against David Cobb, Michael Badnarik and the National Voting Rights Institute, seeking to prevent them from initiating a recount of the presidential vote in that county.

The state court judge issued the order without first consulting the candidates or their attorneys......

[intelle]

12. Oh No!

This is the first I heard of this. Maybe Kerry lawyers will go to bat on Monday?

This is very frustrating.

:wtf:

[bones_7672]

14. For what purpose?

He can pay for a recount after the vote is certified on Monday, but that would duplicate what the GLIBs are doing.

[Eric J in MN]

15. the problem is that the recount should start on Monday, not

December 13, after the Electoral Votes have already been submitted.

[AnIndependentTexan]

16. HOW MANY TIMES DID WE TELL YOU BLACKWELL WILL STALL

The whole point of Blackwell there is to run out the clock. We've been trying to tell you that and you act shock when you see it actually happen.

[Eric J in MN]

17. The issue is why isn't Kerrry sueing to start the recount on Monday.

I know Blackwell wants to delay.

[politicasista]

18. Why won't Kerry sue?

The recounts can start Monday, and he is just going to let Smirky slide?

[libmeayer]

26. In Florida 2000

The US Supreme court ruled in the Bush Vs. Gore case, that any recount to be legal and legitimate must be finished 6 days before the electors cast their votes. In 2000 this was Dec/12 because the electors cast their votes on Dec/18.
In 2004, the final day to finish a legal and legitimate recount is Dec/7 because on Dec/13 the electors from each state will meet to cast their votes for President.
Based on this, I do not think that there will be a recount in Ohio. In fact any recount that will be done after Dec/7 will be just "academic" and it will have no legal value.

[BlueStateBlue]

19. Temporary Restraining Order

I saw a post several days ago, I think from a lawyer who said it would make sense to file for a temporary restraining order, preventing the electors from voting until the recount is done. If this is indeed a legal possibility, it would make perfect sense to me.

[Wordie]

24. That sounds like a VERY good idea! I wonder if they can file a suit solely

on the basis of the contradictory dates in the OH law.

[BlueStateBlue]

31. I'm no lawyer

but I hope there are lawyer-types on our side looking into it...

[Wordie]

20. The dates are confusing...and then there is the issue of a contest!

I posted some of the OH deadlines that I found on the web, but they appear to be somewhat contradictory, so I can't figure out what, for instance, really would be the last date for a recount to be finished, and still count. Would the process involve completing the recount and then contesting the earlier results perhaps?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=113925&mesg_id=113925

[rhite5]

21. If Kerry wants to save his reputation, he must act NOW.

I mean that. He will have no political future if he leaves Cobb and Badarik hanging in the breeze like this.

Move On, once it decided to help the WA recount, began encouraging volunteers to go to both Washington and Ohio to help the recounts. I really believed when the Kerry Campaign stepped into the one Ohio county, it was a signal they were going to play a role in all the recounts.

We sure are getting mixed signals.

Many Ohioans are calling for a revote, not a recount, in order to deal with all the voters that got disenfranchised. Maybe Kerry is considering pushing for that alternative? I'm grasping at straws

[krag]

22. I Think

The Kerry camp knows they have to ask for a recount. They can't sit this one out now, even if they really may want to (er, not sure exactly why they would).

They always said every vote would be counted - so where's the scandal in asking for a recount in such a questionable (and relatively close) election?

Kerry has everything to gain and nothing to lose by asking for a recount now. I think they're just waiting for Kathy Blackwell to certify the results. I think the request form is filled out and will land on his desk 60 seconds after the vote is certified.

[senegal1]

23. Well just like its been said in other threads Its us not him thats

doing this. Sorry to say. I called the DNC and left a voice mail that I expected them to support the WA recount or I would vote Green next time.

[libmeayer]

27. There is no ground what so ever

in the Constitution for a "revote". This will never happen.

[rodeodance]

28. suspose to start on Monday--after officially certifies (OhIO)

[Patsy Stone]

30. I must have misunderstood...

I thought I heard that the recount would beging after certification (SOP), and be completed by 12/13. Where did this AP info come from?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6620799 /

KO/Kathy B.

BLACKWELL: "We had indicated that Ohio law allows for a recount once the vote has been certified. So, the recount is already a determination."

BLACKWELL: No, we haven‘t. We‘ve told the two officials candidates that have—the candidates that have asked for a recount that, once we certify on December 6, they have five days to certify, I mean, to ask for a recount.

Once they ask for a recount, we will provide them with a recount. And that‘s what I‘ve said from the very first indication that they were interested in a recount. Once it was established that they were statewide candidates withstanding, our law says that they can ask for a recount. We will regard this as yet another audit of the voting process.

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The lawsuit the Glibs filed was to start the recount BEFORE the final count was certified. This was turned down by the judge because they could prove no damages. In reality, if Kerry had joined that lawsuit, the recount would have been assesed with regards to immediacy because K/E did have a chance. Katherine Blackwell will supposedly certify on Monday. Then the recount will begin.

K/E did not join that suit, but if I remember correctly, there was something on the Ohiodems.org site about a lawsuit they were participating in. That may be a different one, and more about being a part of the overall recount, but not truly a party to it yet.

The recount beginning after the electors are certified on Dec. 13, is a new twist and I'm not sure where that came from. Regardless, if the recount proceeds, before or after 12/13, and there really is a change to K/E, the electors from that state can change their votes or, as we all saw in the opening of F9/11, all it takes is one Rep. and one Sen. to stop Ohio's votes from counting on Jan. 6 when Darth Cheney opens the envelopes.