4th Madsen Article:White House-linked operation paid for "vote switching"

[jamboi]

A very long, detailed and very damning article. Especially enjoyable are the last few paragraphs discussing what Madsen terms "high crimes" that he alleges the Bush folks have committed. This article focuses primarily on past elections, that lead back to the White House and the Florida governor.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/120604Madsen/120604madsen.html

The prior three Madsen articles re: election fraud can be found here:
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/special_reports.html

Texas to Florida: White House-linked clandestine operation paid for "vote switching" software

By Wayne Madsen
Online Journal Contributing Writer

December 6, 2004—The manipulation of computer voting machines in the recent presidential election and the funding of programmers who were involved in the operation are tied to an intricate web of shady off-shore financial trusts and companies, shady espionage operatives, Republican Party politicians close to the Bush family, and National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) contract vehicles.

An exhaustive investigation has turned up a link between current Florida Republican Representative Tom Feeney, a customized Windows-based program to suppress Democratic votes on touch screen voting machines, a Florida computer services company with whom Feeney worked as a general counsel and registered lobbyist while he was Speaker of the Florida House of Representatives, and top level officials of the Bush administration.

According to a notarized affidavit signed by Clint Curtis, while he was employed by the NASA Kennedy Space Center contractor, Yang Enterprises, Inc., during 2000, Feeney solicited him to write a program to "control the vote." At the time, Curtis was of the opinion that the program was to be used for preventing fraud in the in the 2002 election in Palm Beach County, Florida. His mind was changed, however, when the true intentions of Feeney became clear: the computer program was going to be used to suppress the Democratic vote in counties with large Democratic registrations.

According to Curtis, Feeney and other top brass at Yang Enterprises, a company located in a three-story building in Oviedo, Florida, wanted the program, written in Visual Basic 5 (VB.5) and designed to operate in Windows and be portable to Unix-based vote tabulation systems, to be "undetectable" to voters and election supervisors.

[Quakerfriend]

1. good morning Jamboi

I've been waiting on you and your friend WM........Thanks much!O8)

[jamboi]

3. A right good morn' to y'all. n/t

[jamboi]

124. Madsen says: More coming.

Madsen writes this morning:

"There is more to do on the story --- I think this article will shake out more information on who else was in on this election fix.

wayne"

[Election Mess]

27. Here's the solution. Lets blow the covers off the fraud.

OK, so we've got lots of indicators of fraud. (See my piece at http://www.passinglane.com/elections/)

Here's what we need to do:
Lets hire an impartial (and honest) polling firm. We’ll poll voters in counties and districts where discrepancies appear most obvious. Lets get some solid numbers in specific post-election polls. Lets ask the voters themselves who they voted for on Nov. 2nd. If the results of these polls differ sharply from the actual results (within an acceptable margin of error) lets dig deeper.

If post-election polls don't add up will the doubters start paying attention? This could lead to more people looking at specific anomalies, no longer accepting simple theories contrived merely to rationalize "certified" election results. If post-election poll results point to a different conclusion than "election results" eyes may start to open a little wider.

Who can get this started? Lets raise some money and get this rolling.

email me: [e-mail]

[Marnieworld]

69. Basically you're suggesting duplicating the exit polls

but not even as good since you'd be sampling people who didn't vote. We already have discrepencies that people are ignoring. Another poll won't make a difference.

Sorry to be a poopypants.

[rdmccur]

152. Agreed

Just more statistics, but this time not as good as the exit polls like you say.

[Election Mess]

229. We don't even have exit polls from this past election

Who has the data? It has not been released. The poll methodology is a big secret and no one will agree on what the numbers actually were.

[buzzard]

79. Exit polls can't be duplicated after the vote so I don't think this would

hold water if it was used as evidence.

[trudyco]

89. Depends on if you mean for court or to get public's attention

I still think either we should canvass some precincts and get sworn affidavit that people voted for Kerry on Nov 2 at that precinct.

Start with Ohio. I think there are some questionable Senate votes, there, too. Pick a precinct that had a suspiciously low turn out.

At least a poll would give an indication of where to work.

tbuddha tried to get this going. I don't think the usual congresional hearing, going to the courts, ask for a recount, blah blah blah is going to work. It didn't work in 2000. These republicans don't follow laws or spirit of the law. I think we need PROOF of fraud or at least gross malfeasance/unreliable voting to say the election is hooey. The only thing I can think of to do this is canvassing. Statistics probably won't hold in court.

The only think I don't know is if Kerry is really working on this and is holding back so he can catch more people in his net.

trudyco

[jamboi]

93. Yes, I'd thought of that too! Good idea. n/t

[sharman]

220. Completely agree

I so want this done, if just for my own peace of mind.

My thought is, any swing state precinct has lists upon lists of voters, including the likely Dem voters with numbers, compiled by ACT, moveon, etc. That's a ready resource.

I've also always wanted to just ask a moveon, etc, organizer how the official vote tallies match up with their expectations. I mean, they practically fitted every like Dem swing state vote with a tracking device. Surely, they counted up in their minds how many votes they expected from each precinct?

Anyway, I absolutely agree, and would love to help get something like off the ground. Anybody know an organizer in one of the GOTV groups?

[Guarionex]

214. CLINT CURTIS' DOG HAS BEEN KILLED - READ!

Everyone, go to http://www.crooksandliars.com...Brad Friedman released a statement there because the Brad Blog is unreachable right now...he just got off the phone with clint curtis (the whistleblower)...clint says his healthy 3-year old German shepard has just been found dead, only hours of submitting the affidavit and publishing the article.

SOMEONE IS OUT TO GET CLINT! If you can enter the BradBlog later, do so.

[geo]

2. Tuned in at just the right moment!

Very cool. Thanks for posting! :) -G

[mhr]

4. Hmm, Lots Of Details, Lost To Chew On!

eom

[ClintCooper2003]

5. Wow, a sworn affidavit! Now we're getting somewhere!!! n/t

[Truman01]

49. How many of us would swear out an affidavit that

Bush is a criminal?? Anyone?

TC

[Hamoth]

50. He has been convicted of crimes...

So yes. Hasn't he admitted to doing coke? That's a crime, last I heard...

[jamboi]

100. Convicted? Link? n/t

[Twist_U_Up]

104. he`s referring to bulshit n/t

[TexasChick]

167. jamoi, I think Hamoth might be referring to when Smirking Chimp was

arrested in Kennenbunkport(sp?), Maine for DUI. There is a picture of his arrest. Do you need me to go find it?

[hangloose]

174. Yes, please find it then post it. Thank you for offering.

[TexasChick]

190. hangloose, sorry I couldn't find the picture. I googled and googled, but

couldn't manage to find it anywhere. I know I saw it on an anti-Smirk site somewhere. I have visited too many of them and cannot remember which one had the photo.

There are two links below addressing the arrest, the first link having a photo of the arrest report:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdui1.html

abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/ DailyNews/Bush_Arrest001102.html

[hangloose]

226. No problem, however you perked my interest, I'll do some

checking and should I fine it I'll post it.

[pbartch]

198. I want to email this story to the "Oregonian" --- who should it go to?

I can't remember the name of the person at the Oregonian that a DU'er mentioned a couple days ago being a HARD HITTER --- and would "kill" to have a GOOD story.

I just got off the phone with a SNIPPY little snot at the Oregonian who she said they would only take this report from the AP and "certainly not if it was off the internet"

I took her head off at that point and told her I'd find out WHO to email my information to.

[econut]

6. The Beginning of the End of the Bush Cabal!

This story has made my day. The pieces are finally comming together.

[KansDem]

Yesssss! The question now is, "What did Bush know...

...and when did he know it?"

Sorry, that's two questions, but I want both answered under oath No more of this half-assed, 9/11 Commission "testimony" given "above oath."

[murielm99]

7. Another "suicide" in there.

I hope Madsen is taking care of himself.

:scared:

I listened to the Pacifica interview, too. Thanks to whomever it was that posted the link here.

[DavidFL]

19. And very similar to the circumstances of Danny Casolaro's death. [n/t]

[eowyn_of_rohan]

68. It's good that he is blasting this info far and wide.

They don't gain anything but revenge by killing him, because it's already out there. If anything happens to him, people will have some pretty good leads as to where to find the killer. No one would believe his death was an accident. It is so sad and sickening to hear about these good, honest men who have tried to do the right thing, but had their lives (and their families') destroyed by these evil thugs.

[aquart]

81. Revenge is fine by George.

He's a petty, nasty, vindictive little Caligula. (And that's what I think of him on a good day.)

[PinkPantherChick]

218. Georgie

You are being way too sweet. Everytime I see his puss on the tube I call him a sniveling little rat bastard. I think it's the beady little eyes..........

[goclark]

87. I'm sure he has sent detailed copies of ALL of his

findings to be opened in case he gets sick or something.

If he is this detailed he should be safe.

I am loving this guy more every second.

Either he is the best fiction writer on earth or the truth is better than fiction.

When I read it it sounds so logical.
Edit for addition: Has this been tested for "ROVE PRINTS" like the CBS stuff?

[s-cubed]

88. I hope Curtis is someplace nice and safe!

[Zan_of_Texas]

192. Pacifica interview available online

http://www.kpftx.org/archives/kpftsignal/index.php

go to Sunday Monitor - Dec. 5



KPFT - Houston

The hour consists of: --headlines, including election roundup.

--Cliff Arnebeck, attorney filing a contest of election in Ohio

--James Galbraith, progressive economist comparing elections in Ukraine and US

and --Wayne Madsen

[jamboi]

230. Hot! n/t

[samfish]

8. NASA Connections

Hmm...although I'm skeptical of Madesen's writings in general on this issue, reading about all the NASA connections makes me wonder what was really behind Bush's claims that he'll increase funding for NASA's space exploration (and then only giving about $1 billion/year, peanuts compared to what NASA needs to operate).

Perhaps the NASA issue and Georgie boy's desire to increase thier funding should be further investigated?

[kk897]

115. interesting observation, samfish

I'm actually in favor of space exploration in general, but Bush's choice of timing on this whole Mars thing was weird. Now is not the time, when the deficit is so high, etc. Very curious, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if samfish's angle on this is correct.

[americanwoman]

9. Clint Curtis, Brave Guy

The more main stream this gets, the more crap Curtis is going to have to brave from the big guns. That is, if the (largely cached via WayBack) set of articles re: the 2002 whistle-blowing incident is any indication.

For instance, in an op-ed written by none-other-than Feeney himself, Yang Enterprises is "a renowned technology firm ... and great credibility and respect in our community". And Clinton Curtis is "a disgruntled former Yang employee".

Here's the link:
http://web.archive.org/web/20020822031757/http://www.news-journalonline.com/2002/Jun/12/OPN1.htm

God love ya, Clint Curtis.

[geo]

11. If he wrote the program, then it's more than just an affidavit...

it's the person who can tell you how it is done. - G

[eowyn_of_rohan]

70. ...and Feeney took the "highest ethical ground "

and removed himself from any direct involvement with DOT leaders. And Mr. Curtis's allegations makes little sense, because "The eight-year contract negotiated between Yang and the DOT has a spending cap that cannot be exceeded" uh, yeah, right.

Great find on wayback.

[ebayfool]

10. Now THAT'S good information! TY jamboi (& Madsen!)

I can't wait to see what happens w/this! Whistleblowers, notarized affidavits & CIA guys on the country's side instead of hiding stuff for *ushco, all before the hearings this week! Now, what do we do to help this (besides the obvious - emailing MSM, etc.)? This is the first I have dared to get my hopes up in a good, long while - 'scuse me while I do a little happy grammy dance!

[eowyn_of_rohan]

73. Last night was the first I went to sleep HAPPY since the election -nt

[zann725]

117. This was the first morning since the election that I 'danced' out of bed!

:bounce:

12. Clint Curtis at Thudfactor

I've recently become a DU addict but am not much of a researcher. Still, I decided to do a simple google on Clint Curtis. Came up with this:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Knowledge of vote fraud

In regards to electronic touch screen voting machines, I have personal knowledge that they might be purposely inaccurate. As a programmer for a company in Florida we were tasked by Republican Tom Feeney with a prototype of a voting program that could switch the vote and be undetectable. If you would like more information please refer to the web site http://www.justaflyonthewall.com/votefraud.html or email me.

If the information is of any value to you, feel free to link to any pages you like.

Keep up the good work.

Clint Curtis
— Clint Curtis Dec 1, 8:51pm #
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

He seems just too willing to talk about it. Makes me ever so suspicious.

http://www.thudfactor.com/textpattern/index.php?id=996#c002008

[ebayfool]

14. "...too willing to talk about it." Might as well, nothing to lose now,

since he's gone public w/affidavit.

[heliarc]

16. Kick. CNN piece on Voterfraud charges

I was just watching CNN 2:55am Pacific. Condescending piece about Election Fraud. Interview of Cliff Arnebach, footage of the Ohio protests, and Jesse Jackson. More footage of John Conyers. Key words were "Glitch" and "worker fatigue" There were some screenshots of Black Box Voting.org, and some other websites I couldn't recognize.

Are people working on flooding CNN with requests that they review Madsen's article? We need to spread this around! Jeez, I can't listen to this pooh pooing anymore!

Heliarc

[jamboi]

18. Yes I saw it and thought it was decent. Good start anyway. It was replayed

on CNN Headline news.

[bunny planet]

51. Time to reframe this in simple terms for MSM

Glitch = Fraud It wasn't Faith, it was Fraud.

I think this Madsen article is the most plausible of the four, at least the easiest one to wrap your mind around. We can't afford any more Rathergates though, so how do we verify with this story before anyone tries to shop it to MSM or our buddy KO.

It is simple to believe that there was a program that switched a Kerry vote on touchscreens to a Bush vote and tabulated the vote inside the machine as a Bush vote. Didn't hundreds of people come forward with just such a complaint? Time and time again, in many states people voting on e-machines complained that when they touched the screen clearly for Kerry, a Bush vote registered on screen before they finalized their votes. How many people actually checked to see that ultimately their vote registered properly? Even if they did, and called over a poll worker to get the final vote to register a Kerry choice, how could they be sure the machine didn't actually lock in the original erroneous Bush vote? It's so dastardly, and so simple, it has the Bush boys MO written all over it.

The only thing that doesn't seem as plausible is the whistleblower himself. Why would the programmer believe he was designing a program that was actually going to ensure a fair vote, rather than suspect from the beginning that he was being asked to design a program aiding in stealing the vote? Why come forward, if he would design such a system to begin with, he wouldn't be the type to be bothered by pangs of conscience.

The other thing that is very feasible is that CIA people are in on exposing the fraud because they are disgusted with how * and Co. have bungled and scapegoated their intelligence operations (ex. outing Valerie Plame, letting the intelligence agencies take the fall for 911 etc.) This is a theory that makes sense and these are the people who have the most dirt on His Fraudulency.

Reads like Elmore Leonard or Carl Hiasson but hey, it could have happened this way. Are we any closer to proving this and having the story break wide open?

[bunny planet]

53. Oh and isn't Feeney the guy

in the Florida Legislature in 2000 that threatened a coup if the Supremes hadn't intervened and taken the case. He (Feeney) was going to use the legislature to appoint new electors just in case the Florida Supreme decision stood and the votes were going to be counted, in essence overriding the Florida Supremes ruling. It is very interesting that he is so prominent in this story of the most recent stolen election.

[FogerRox]

86. CIA --Don't forget to

Keep separate the ops personnel and the Intel folks--really 2 different species

[bunny planet]

102. good point, but at some juncture, if one part of the organization

is being completly dissed and maligned isn't there some kind of loyalty or solidarity among both groups that kicks in? Or am I just engaging in wishful thinking?

[NVMojo]

63. having once blown the whistle on a US corporation,

I would warn Clint of all the naysayers who will assassinate his character, etc. because this is how it is for whistleblowers. You tell the truth, you lose everything, you face ridicule even from those not involved.

[mikeylove]

13. wow. that's a lot to take in. n/t

[Quakerfriend]

15. wondering where this will all go from here....

I hope that someone has recorded the methodology he used in his software and can validate it.

[ebayfool]

17. His site says you can download a reproduction of the proggy.

from the site -

"A reproduction of the prototype I developed at Wong for Congressman Feeney can be downloaded at..."

http://www.justaflyonthewall.com/votefraudprogram.htm

[momzno1]

25. why does he say "wong" and it is "yang"? nt

[ebayfool]

28. Whoa! Good catch, I hadn't noticed that. edit-jamboi explains here ...

"Yang Enterprises is no hoax. Wong was an alias to protect the whistleblower."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=116796#116874

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=116796#117246

[The Backlash Cometh]

41. I must be getting DUiefied, because I understood all of it!

I now understand why Bush is attacking the CIA and purging it of all its Liberals.

[NVMojo]

65. good point!

[eowyn_of_rohan]

72. GOOD point...he has some real specific and immediate reasons -nt

[aquart]

94. There are NO liberals in the CIA.

The CIA is being purged of conservatives.

[Carl Brennan]

114. Hee, hee. The further to the Right you go what was once moderate

becomes "liberal". The unfaithful will be purged!

[SharifromOregon]

150. But those that are being purged....

who have the inside scoop will be even more likely to come forward and talk. Is this what Madsen was referring to when he said that the Bushies were clever, but not that clever? Folks that are dissed like that have no allegiance and even if they are branded as "sour grapes" or vengeful, it really could be the proverbial straw that broke the camels back (that is, if they come forward)...

Then again, couldn't they conveniently "commit suicide" like some of the others trying to break this case?

Anyway, all I can say at this point is WOW -- and I assume that Madsen has been sharing this information with Conyers and others in the beltway...wonder what they plan to do with it???:thumbsup:

[peacetalksforall]

134. Free association? = If true, this was all going on at the same time that

Republicans were accusing Lee (at Livermore?) about leaking and collaborating with the Chinese. Righteous honor and integrity in the WH and immoral Dems was the message.

[eomer]

20. Code written in VB cannot be portable to Unix

Not sure what to make of this.

From the article: "According to Curtis, Feeney and other top brass at Yang Enterprises, a company located in a three-story building in Oviedo, Florida, wanted the program, written in Visual Basic 5 (VB.5) and designed to operate in Windows and be portable to Unix-based vote tabulation systems,..."

Visual Basic is specific to MS Windows. VB code cannot be portable to any Unix-based system.

Maybe they wanted it to run in VB in Windows and to be ported (that is, rewritten) to run on Unix?

[mikeylove]

21. I noticed that too, but...

...kinda wrote it off as the kind of thing that doesn't get communicated well to journalists with no computer background. I've seen it way too much before in the past.

I guess I should bring these things up, though. Gotta commit reporting inconsistencies and weirdness to muscle memory. :)

[eomer]

23. I think you're right...

I can picture a programmer saying "ported" and having it get innocently reported as "portable" by someone not intimate with the technologies.

[americanwoman]

22. I didn't get that either...

Probably a mixup in the translation form techie to journo.

[FormerOstrich]

29. I think FlyontheWall joined

DU and maybe he can answer the techie questions. The description makes it seems as if the code would run on individual vote machines and not the central tabulator. What platform are the e-vote machines?

Aside from the inability to port to unix, VB is not a true executable and requires the VB runtime. Unless the machine is already windows based with the vb runtime it doesn't seem a very stealthy way to implement code. Perhaps just the prototype was written in VB????

As far as the central tabulator PC you would think that not having runtimes (such as vb) would be a security mechanism (unless of course GEMS is written in VB).

Now that I have been thinking out loud...does anyone know what platform the E-Vote machines are per vendor?

[eomer]

36. Looks like Diebold touchscreens are on Windows CE

http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,61947,00.html

[eomer]

39. VB 5.0 is (or was) available for Windows CE

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/1998/Feb98/VBVC++PR.asp

[eomer]

42. The VB runtime could have easily been put on machine

FormerOstrich wrote:
"Aside from the inability to port to unix, VB is not a true executable and requires the VB runtime. Unless the machine is already windows based with the vb runtime it doesn't seem a very stealthy way to implement code. Perhaps just the prototype was written in VB????"

Even if the machine didn't have the VB runtime loaded (and I'm not sure whether Windows CE comes with the VB runtime preinstalled), noone would notice if you copied those files onto the system. And apparently there were no controls or checks in place to determine that noone had modifed the operating system and/or programs.

That said, it still may be that this programmer only developed a prototype and then someone else developed another program that was actually used.

Edited for spelling.

[FormerOstrich]

66. Yes, it would be easy enough to

copy the runtime.

However, it does seem checking for such would be a logical certification check. Unless required for the e-vote software there would be no valid reason to have the runtime or the development environments (someone mentioned Visual Studio which is 6.0 but the point is the same). IMHO, that is.

I am not sure you can get away with just a straight copy of the runtime. You may very well need an install or manual registration. Thus, you are leaving a lot more tracks.

The bottom line is I'm speculating....I would like to have FlyontheWall let us know some of the technical details. There are a zillion ways to minimize detection...I'm just curious...

[eomer]

71. On desktop versions of Windows like Windows 95

you don't have to register the VB runtime, you can just copy the files into the \windows\system folder. There are so many hundreds (thousands?) of files in there that noone would notice unless there was a specific check for this. From other articles I've read, there was typically not a check to confirm whether the operating system or programs were changed. It was apparently SOP that some tech would get the latest version of software from the vendor (or who knows where else), install it, and noone was checking what they were doing.

As far as how Windows CE might differ from desktop versions of Windows, I haven't worked with CE so I'm not sure.

[pointsoflight]

107. It has been documented that they don't even look at windows software...

...in the certification process. Unlike the vote tabulation software itself, windows components can be added and updated at any time, without being reported, certified, or anything else. People forewarned about this years ago--that any vote modifying software could easily be built into windows software.

[Eloriel]

146. True and an excellent point

Certification is a joke anyway, but nothing regarding the Windows operating systems -- or any supposedly "off the shelf" software used -- needs certification.

Thus, the patch that was put on Georgia's voting machines just before the 2002 elections (the one from the folder called Rob-Georgia) was said to have been a patch to Windows, so (they claimed) no big deal.

[Hamoth]

34. Or perhaps MS visual studio?

Visual studio is a sweet that contains both VB and VC++.

[stella2cat]

76. in my expericence, VB is usually only used as a front-end app

and there's a back-end in another language, for instance, C or C++ if they want it to run on unix. So the VB would provide the user interface and the C would really be doing all the work behind the scenes

(there aren't many of us that consider VB a REAL language)

[eomer]

80. I agree with your feelings about VB (not my language of choice)...

but you can get access to just about anything in Windows by way of VB and what was required here was not very difficult. VB can be used to develop programs with a user interface and it can also be used to develop ActiveX controls and DLLs and EXEs that do not have a user interface.

It may well be that the program talked about here isn't the one really used in the election but there's no technical reason you couldn't do whatever you wanted with VB.

(Ill repeat my caveat that I'm basing this more on desktop versions of VB, so CE version may be different)

[eomer]

90. Isn't there video proving that even a chimp could be trained

to hack the election?

I'm willing to go a step further and say it's so easy that even a VB programmer could do it!

[stella2cat]

98. yep, bottom line is there are many many ways it could be done n/t

[aquart]

99. Be careful. This is the kind of thing that got Rather.

Get this fully explained before moving on.

[Cadence]

118. That's the first thing I thought. VB portable to unix? huh?

I've heard no mention of unix based systems being implemented in any of the voting systems. I can't imagine they would even want the abitlity to "port" to unix because a central tabulator system that is unix based would be a lot harder to hack without a trail than the windows systems.
They don't seem to be about making systems that are hard to hack. The GEMS system is not written in VB.

VB would be one of the last languages anyone would pick with the idea of porting to unix later. Perl would be a more obvious choice.

I'm not sure what to think of that quote.

[eomer]

130. Sequoia touchscreens use pSOS

which is a proprietary real-time operating system (not Unix). But then again, Unix is a term that's not always used correctly. For example, many refer to Linux as being Unix when it is not. Many times operating systems that are Unix-like end up being called Unix. I don't know whether pSOS is Unix-like or not.

Link to Wind River pSOS:
http://www.windriver.com/products/device_technologies/os/psosystem_3/

Link to article that says Sequoia touchscreens use pSOS:
http://www.lacitybeat.com/article.php?id=1013&IssueNum=55

[ExCiber]

135. Not even close to Unix or Windows

I've worked with pSOS for quite a few years.

Embedded, Real-time kernel OS.

Chance of 'Hacking' without internal access is damn close to ZERO.

[eomer]

147. Thanks exCiber

Seems quite possible that there was internal access, at least according to what's being alleged.

Thanks for the info that it's not Unix-like.

[murielm99]

182. Someone needs to ask Mr. Madsen to clarify this!

He has twenty years experience in data privacy and security. Surely he should know what he is saying.

Jamboi? You communicate with Madsen, don't you? Can you get some info from him?

[Carolab]

228. Excuse me, but

going back to the (real) Cybernet company, Cybernet Systems Inc.--they were working with Linux Red Hat Enterprise, projects called NetMAX, and Alan Gutierrez in Ann Arbor Cybernet Systems was working on a Linux Red Hat project. One called "Judo", also mentioned SAX. Could Linux, since it is open source, be used to port VB to MS Windows in the background?

[samfish]

24. One big summary?

As I undersatnd it, isn't this supposed to be the last of the articles written by Mr. Madsen?

I've read all four, but they details are starting to jumble together in my head.
Anyone want to try and lay out the whole shebang in short form?

[Sideways]

26. Sorry No. Do Your Own Homework.

We are very very busy moving this issue into the media. Write your own summary.

[SharifromOregon]

156. Sideways...

How can I help you and others (Jamboi) move this into MSM. I know that's there are a few threads dedicated to the Madsen research, but do they also include blasting MSM?

I think there's a ton of stuff to digest, summary and figure out how to develop it into MSM bits and bites, without destroying it. And I know that folks are really concerned about being "Rathered" over it, so maybe we start with the "least controversial" pieces first....

[eowyn_of_rohan]

74. Maybe if you do it yourself

you will be able to commit it to memory better.

[blitzburgh55]

30. Kerry Won the Election by at least 1,7 Million Votes

Sorry if this was posted already.

Brad Menfil is not my real name. I work for the RNC. I fear reprisals if I'm found out.

The exit polls were not wrong. Kerry was the clear winner, but victory was snatched from him.

Florida first. The 200,000+ margin of victory for Bush made this state uncontestable. Everybody assumes that even with some fraud, Kerry could never have made up the difference in a recount. But Kerry actually won by about 750,000 votes. The numbers were changed by a computer program (in both electronic and scan-tron voting systems) called "KerryLite." "KerryLite" of course is not actual name of the program. The actual name is 11-5-18-18 etc. For additional encryption, the numbers were jumbled but I'm not sure in which order. The numbers replace the letters of the alphabet. For example, K is the eleventh letter of the alphabet.

http://www.cmaq.net/fr/node.php?id=19196

[Donailin]

31. what the monkey???

Is this for real?? Has it been debunked?

[americanwhothinks]

33. Skepticism is essential here. And yes, this post has been posted before,

and questions have been raised. As I recall,I think many people wrote this post off. If you just want the history, you could do a search..

Anyway,with tons of evidence that doesn't rely on hearsay or alleged insider knowledge, it is dangerous and irresponsible to see anything as "real" that amounts claims that are completely unsubtantantiated.

The best work on DU doesn't rely on fancy stories-- it is work that comes straight out of the actual numbers, the FACTS.

This folks who claim insider knowledge are, in my view, very likely appearing here to debunk/discredit this whole operation!

[Monkie]

54. Curtis is a whistleblower-lots of news coverage in 2002

i wrote a post about this after reading about justaflyonthewall at whatreallyhappened.com last thursday..
but nobody replied to it *cries* :D
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x6414
in that i checked as much as i could about curtis..
he checks out on the web as a whistleblower
you can find articles related to feeney's conflict of interests in google cache..
Curtis has ALL his contact info on the web..right down to phone nr. and address (i admit i havent called/visited)
so i agree being skeptical is good,but this angle CAN be checked out

an example from the daytona beach news journal
"Laura Zuckerman
Staff Writer
October 25, 2002; Page 02C
Article ID: 0210250444

The state Ethics Commission takes up a recommendation today
to clear outgoing House Speaker Tom Feeney of charges he
improperly used his position to benefit Yang Enterprises,
one of his legal clients, in the computer firm's $8 million
contract with the Florida Department of Transportation.

Feeney has said for weeks he has been "cleared by the
experts."

But the initial investigation recommending he be cleared
failed to include interviews with key witnesses and an
examination"

[txindy]

57. I still don't know quite what to make of all of this

But I must admit, if I was going to blow the whistle on the BFEE and its many crimes re: election fraud, I would also post my name, address, and story EVERYWHERE. I'd want the news to get out and I'd want everyone to know what I know so I'd have a better chance of not ending up a suspected "suicide."

[americanwhothinks]

219. Hey, Monkie--

I appreciate the follow-up, and I agree that skepticism does not= dismissal!!

It is wise to exercise caution, to then do whatever research one can...this is the investigative approach which says, "i don't believe, i research!!"

so absolutely, yes! check out the angle!!

[blitzburgh55]

37. Brad Menfil

Somebody claiming to be 'Brad Menfil' of Knoxville, TN, recently posted on Portland's Indymedia site that he was told by a Bush campaign worker named Scott Zale that Bush is known among many campaign workers to be wired. Here's the text of the post, followed by a rebuttal that raises more questions than it answers:

'I have contacts within the Republican Party. I was told by Scott Zale, a Republican operative in eastern Tennessee that he knows it to be a fact that Bush was wired. He said that within the Bush campaign, there are certain mid-level staffers that have leaked this tidbit because it was just 'too fantastic to ignore.'

Zale told me that the transmission device is popular with other high profile officials in the Bush administration. It helps everybody stay 'on message.' Zale said that Bush was only fed ready responses to just certain types of questions. He didn't know which questions those were but admitted that Bush just sounded (to him)to be more articulate at certain 'opportune' times

http://story.knoxvilletimes.com/p.x/ct/9/cid/a8d1772e8d5c87a8/id/2e5fb3ba40ef014a/

[EMunster]

64. google "Brad Menfil" hoax n/t

[s-cubed]

103. DEBUNKED, BIG TIME n/tt

[flyarm]

52. who remembers what ...

does anyone remember what name someone said the brad menfil name could be changed to???

i remember some one had used the letters and it was quite eye
opening..thanks ahead of time! fly

[Dolphyn]

85. Try this (anagram finder):

http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=bradmenfil

[RevCheesehead]

151. Thank you for that link!

I ran my name and got, of all things:

Ah, Rove, Mr Nut
AM Rover Hunt
Math Runover
Vote Run Harm - or, Run, Harm Vote
Arthur Venom (my alter-ego)
Ham Turnover (my alternate ego)
and my personal favorite: Tavern Humor!

(I know, I know, I'm going to the lounge!):beer: :evilgrin:

[aquart]

97. Blind frame.

[milkyway]

112. Nonsense right from the start. Bush won by 330,000, not 200,000.

Try not to post unsubstantiated garbage floating around other sites without any evidence. Thanks.

[Gary173]

32. Tom Feeney changed rules in Fl, a la Delay

On the floor, they rammed the new rule through under a motion limiting debate to three minutes a side. Lois Frankel, the minority leader, was in mid-sentence when Feeney slammed his gavel to silence her.

Article:http://www.sptimes.com/News/042901/Columns/Tom_Feeney_s_dictator.shtml

This reporter might be a person with info on Feeney

[woodsprite]

46. Hope Curtis isn't a repub plant

I thought about that when I read that he put the info up on the web. Then I calmed myself down and talked myself into believing it. If you want to put info out where people can find it, put it on the web. Especially if it's posted in several areas. If he were to meet with an "accident" like others, at least the info would be out there.

Would someone please assure me that there is something that the dems can do in a Repub House/Senate with CIA, FBI and SCOTUS integrity compromized. Especially if the Judiciary committee is under F*s control.

[in_cog_ni_to]

35. I just emailed this to my Senator, Dick Durbin.

He's one of the few in the Senate I trust to do anything about this. This crap is unbelievable. The BFEE has taken over our country. I hope Madsen and his sources are careful and being protected? :scared:

[life_long_dem]

38. Thanks jamboi. Do you ever sleep? I know I'm way behind.

DU and caffeine, that is a powerful mix.

My wife is probably getting tired of listening to me talk about this stolen election, but she is also convinced that it happened, and she has all of my talking points memorized. LOL

Once again, thanks for "keeping hope alive". I look forward to your continuing coverage of these events. Have a great day and Kerry ON.

[The Backlash Cometh]

40. Jayus Keyriiist.

[TR Fan]

43. Anyone familiar with Chinese names...

Madsen and Curtis refer to "Yang Enterprises." Curtis originally refers to "Wong Enterprises" here:

http://www.justaflyonthewall.com/votefraud.html

Are they interchangable?

[eowyn_of_rohan]

78. I knew a family who used to be named Wong, then they changed

their name to Yee. Yee/Yang? (no, really, there is such a family)

[trudyco]

108. Yang/Wong explained above - it was changed at first n/t

[buddysmellgood]

144. Nice story. If only it didn't have so many, unnamed sources and insiders.

But it does have an interview with a guy in a mental hospital. It also has a phony check and links to the bogus emails we all get about free money from Nigeria.
I really, really want to believe this, but this won't see the light of main stream media until more people come forward.

[rumpel]

181. It depends on the Original Chinese Character

Chinese characters in general have many ways of pronounciations, especially when they are combined with additional characters.
The convesion into an alphabetical name is up the person and can vary.
Same with Japanese.

[OKthatsIT]

44. WOW...signed affidavit, Madsen is kicking ass

"According to a notarized affidavit signed by Clint Curtis, while he was employed by the NASA Kennedy Space Center contractor, Yang Enterprises, Inc., during 2000, Feeney solicited him to write a program to "control the vote."

...i want to see a copy of this!

[OKthatsIT]

45. Im sending this to my Congressman and Senators

My Senators are Kerry and Kennedy..HA!

[ozymandius]

47. A signed affidavit is a good start.

If Madsen has more signed affidavits, then a substantive basis for his allegations exists.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

48. Five-Star Trust linked to Five-Star Refiners (gold in NYC/Africa) ?

Madsen wrote" The gold bars were then transported to the International Diamond Exchange Vaults near Rockefeller Center."

Rockefeller Center is about a block away from FiveStar Refiners
http://www.refinegold.com
Five Star Refiners is a precious metals company equipped to purchase all types of precious metal and precious metal scrap...Five Star Refiners is located in the heart of New York City's diamond/jewelry district on 47th Street between 5th and 6th avenues. Five Star has over 25 years in the purchase, assaying, refining and smelting of gold and other precious metals. The Company provides on-site smelting of gold and other precious metals in attractive offices located in the heart of the 47th Street gold buying district. Customers range from Manufacturers, Importers, Wholesalers, and Retailers. Five Star offers its clientele the unique service of observing the entire smelting process from start to finish. The maximum cash settlement is $10,000. Amounts over $10,000 are paid by check or wire transfer. Our price is based on 5oz. minimum.
We are pleased to announce the opening of our new office in Mali (West Africa). Five Star Refiners # 2 is located at:
Rue Lyantey
Immeuble Madiou Simpara
Porte N 8; Premier Etage
Bamako, Mali West Africa
Contact in Bamako:
Abou Sylla
Tel: [phone]
Cel: [phone]

[eowyn_of_rohan]

58. Tinfoil alert Connection betw. Jeff Fisher's and Wayne Madsen's stories?

I have been sitting on this for a couple weeks, because I didn't know if it was worth anything, but I am going to put it out now, for my fellow Cybernet researchers. This might be 100% tinfoil hat insanity or it might not.

Madsen mentioned that Brazilians had been brought in to assist with the vote stealing.

One of Piotr Blass's businesses is/was "GrasshopperCentral- where you’ll have so much fun you won’t realize you’re learning". (Now, if you google "grasshopper central", you will get a zillion hits on biological/neurological research being done on the central nervous system of the grasshopper -rather odd). It is/was a children's educational software business among other things. It's address:
GRASSHOPPER ENTERTAINMENT 10001 NW 50TH ST, Sunrise 33351 Phone: [phone].

Other businesses at that location include (among others that I won't muddy this with right now):
Sentry Security Inc -owned by Peter Katz 10001 NW 50th St #111 Sunrise, FL , Telephone [phone], "member: Alarm Association of Florida, Broward Region". Dealer in "Closed Circuit Television Equipment & Security Systems, Surveillance Equipment". He placed an ad in "Brazilian News&Business", online, for:

"ELECTRICIANS & HELPERS - Exp, Fire alarms in Bwd, Top pay & Benes 954-452-8500 - Broward - FL "http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/braziliannews/classificados.htm

Another business at the same address is "Unique Solutions, Inc.", 10001 NW 50th St.,Suite 111, Sunrise, FL 33351 owned by Beth Katz (any relation to Peter, above? And what is this: Unique Solutions Main Office Computr 954-486-5500 3343 W Commercial Blvd Fort Lauderdale FL 33309). Unique Solutions is a jewelry business that is connected with the GEM AND GOLD trade, and groups called Ganoksin, and Orchid...the googling of which kept me interested, if confused, for several hours, because the tentacles are so long. The Unique Solutions website apparently has been altered since I found it, because I could swear it had Ganoksin logo and info on it before, but here is the link:http://www.myuniquesolutions.com/

"Unique Solutions" and Beth Katz, shared a booth Pure Gold (Designs)at a "SNAG" conference sponsored by the Florida Society of Goldsmiths and Florida Craftsmens Association in St. Petersburg, Florida, this past March, 2004. www.snagmetalsmith.org/documents/2004_Program_Pages.pdf

Pure Gold (Designs) is located in the Jewelry & Diamond Exchange in Tamarac, FL: 7152 N. University Drive, Booth #7
http://www.brilliantones.net/pages/660386/page660386.html?refresh=1100239149074

"Brilliant Ones"
At Brilliant Ones we offer high quality diamond, gemstone and pearl jewelry & loose diamonds at deeply discounted prices. We feature a wide variety of finished products set in solid yellow or white gold, platinum and sterling silver.
"The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone..."

[eowyn_of_rohan]

59. Tinfoil Alert: Madsen/Jeff Fisher story connection? (via Piotr Blass)

I have been sitting on this for a couple weeks, because I didn't know if it was worth anything, but I am going to put it out now, for my fellow Cybernet researchers. This might be 100% tinfoil hat insanity or it might not.

Madsen mentioned that Brazilians had been brought in to assist with the vote stealing.

One of Piotr Blass's businesses is/was "GrasshopperCentral- where you’ll have so much fun you won’t realize you’re learning". (Now, if you google "grasshopper central", you will get a zillion hits on biological/neurological research being done on the central nervous system of the grasshopper -rather odd). It is/was a children's educational software business among other things. It's address:
GRASSHOPPER ENTERTAINMENT 10001 NW 50TH ST, Sunrise 33351 Phone: [phone].

Other businesses at that location include (among others that I won't muddy this with right now):
Sentry Security Inc -owned by Peter Katz 10001 NW 50th St #111 Sunrise, FL , Telephone [phone], "member: Alarm Association of Florida, Broward Region". Dealer in "Closed Circuit Television Equipment & Security Systems, Surveillance Equipment". He placed an ad in "Brazilian News&Business", online, for:

"ELECTRICIANS & HELPERS - Exp, Fire alarms in Bwd, Top pay & Benes 954-452-8500 - Broward - FL "http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/braziliannews/classificados.htm

Another business at the same address is "Unique Solutions, Inc.", 10001 NW 50th St.,Suite 111, Sunrise, FL 33351 owned by Beth Katz (any relation to Peter, above? And what is this: Unique Solutions Main Office Computr 954-486-5500 3343 W Commercial Blvd Fort Lauderdale FL 33309). Unique Solutions is a jewelry business that is connected with the GEM AND GOLD trade, and groups called Ganoksin, and Orchid...the googling of which kept me interested, if confused, for several hours, because the tentacles are so long. The Unique Solutions website apparently has been altered since I found it, because I could swear it had Ganoksin logo and info on it before, but here is the link:http://www.myuniquesolutions.com/

"Unique Solutions" and Beth Katz, shared a booth Pure Gold (Designs)at a "SNAG" conference sponsored by the Florida Society of Goldsmiths and Florida Craftsmens Association in St. Petersburg, Florida, this past March, 2004. www.snagmetalsmith.org/documents/2004_Program_Pages.pdf

Pure Gold (Designs) is located in the Jewelry & Diamond Exchange in Tamarac, FL: 7152 N. University Drive, Booth #7
http://www.brilliantones.net/pages/660386/page660386.html?refresh=1100239149074

"Brilliant Ones"
At Brilliant Ones we offer high quality diamond, gemstone and pearl jewelry & loose diamonds at deeply discounted prices. We feature a wide variety of finished products set in solid yellow or white gold, platinum and sterling silver.
"The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone..."

[eowyn_of_rohan]

60. sorry for double post--got an error message& didnt think it went through

[zann725]

128. Doesn't Neil Bush own a company in FL re: Children's Educational Software?

Thought I read it on one of the threads a few weeks ago. (If I am mentioning the 'obvious,' my apologies.)

[eowyn_of_rohan]

Yes, he sure does own a company like that but I am not sure it is

located in Florida, ALTHOUGH his brother, Jeb, has assisted in getting Neil's into Florida schools. What is it with these "children's educational software" people also being involoved in shady and suspicious activites? Not sure I would trust their products for my kids, if I had kids. But I won't say anympore on that...

[Carolab]

223. Neil's company is called "Ignite"--Bay Point connection???

http://www.ignitelearning.com/index.shtml

HQ'd in Austin. Has contracts with Texas, Michigan and California schools as well as in Florida.

Check out what InformationClearinghouse has to say:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3334.htm

OKAY, THIS IS STRANGE. Neil got a contract to test his FCAT software in March 2004, at BAY POINT MIDDLE SCHOOL in Pinellas.

http://www.baypt.pinellas.k12.fl.us/march.html

[Carolab]

227. The SAUDIS invested in Neil's company--

JUAN GONZALEZ: Peter, can you tell us a little more about this trip out to the Middle East that Neil took and also why would companies or investors in Saudi Arabia, China, other places want to invest in a United States software company?

PETER CARLSON: That's a very good question. I'm not sure they're rushing to invest in anybody else's American software companies. He's been to the Middle East many times as a guest of the Saudis, guests of some high-ranking Egyptians. The Bush family has a lot of friends in the Middle East and Neil has no compunctions about trading on those friendships to get investments for his company.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk further about these relationships? Of course, we know that the Bush family, in general, George Bush, Sr., as well as the President have very close ties to Saudi Arabia, have actually gotten hundreds of -- well, have gotten millions of dollars from the Saudis. But Neil Bush goes beyond with China as well.

PETER CARLSON: Yes. For Ignite, Neil bush has gotten investments from Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, the British Virgin Islands, from Taiwan, from Japan. He's got a lot of contracts all over the world and they treat him very well over there.

<snip>
This time, one of the deals that he's got, that one of the guests referred to, is this arrangement with Grace Semiconductor through a Chinese company that is controlled, in part, by the son of the former Chinese president, Jiang Zemin. Here, Bush -- Neil claims that he hasn't yet received any of the $2 million that he has been promised because supposedly it comes after he attends these board meetings and he hasn't yet done that. I think what one of your guests previously said, he's managed to leverage all these different relationships and pull them together with Ignite. Now someone -- an educational official has said that thus far there have not been any connections to Ignite from the federal government in terms of contracts. But as Neil has said, and as you know, the Bush family is a family that never bothers to say you're sorry about nearly anything, he says, well, George W. is his brother and he doesn't -- he is not beholding to that relationship and anything that he gains will be done on his own merit.

JUAN GONZALEZ: I'd like to get back to this issue of Ignite and you mentioned -- actually, the Houston Chronicle reporter that spoke with us before mentioned that although Ignite is basically a software company, it is not related to the testing systems that are now being triggered by No Child Left Behind. It is clear that President Bush's policies are having an enormous impact on the ability of both testing companies and software companies to get into the public schools with huge contracts. And that's why I’m a little puzzled about why -- all these foreign corporations are suddenly taking an interest in public education or in using software for public education. Would you comment on that?

BILL BERKOWITZ: Well, I think we can only speculate and as Peter, I think, said pretty clearly, god knows why these companies want to get involved. But this is a family that, as Kevin Phillips has written about in American Dynasty, that is so tied up with Middle East interests that it took his book and it will take several more to unravel the puzzle here. But it’s clear that Neil Bush has traded in on the family name as has his brother, Jeb, and has George W. and managed to, in this case, channel the money into Ignite. I don't know that these folks in Saudi Arabia or Dubai have any particular interest in Neil Bush or even in his expertise. As I said, they keep inviting him over there to speak at conferences. But I think it is more the question of what kind of favor they can curry with the current administration and maybe future administrations if Jeb chooses to run.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/03/12/1534244

[rdmccur]

169. Thoughts on sending info to Madsen?

[eowyn_of_rohan]

176. He MUST already be aware of this.

It is just too perfect a connection with so many other things...

[Evening Star]

208. Brazilian connection

I would be more apt to believe that Procomp is the Brazilian connection.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/01_35/b3746658.htm
The $240 million acquisition of Brazil's Procom also gave Diebold an entree into an entirely new line: It landed a huge contract to supply electronic voting machines for Brazil's presidential election last year. Now Diebold is getting into the voting-machine business in the U.S., where it expects demand to surge in the wake of the controversial Presidential contest in Florida. Globalization, it seems, can even unveil new opportunities at home.

[lthuedk]

55. Impound all e-voting machines for code evaluation. Thats where

any real vote counting should begin. The Diebold proprietary code excuse should not be a shield against discovery.

Sue and subpoena.

[eomer]

56. Agreed. Here's an article where they managed to avoid

anyone looking at the machines in a recount of a March 2004 election:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x117544#117570

[princehal]

67. I had problems with the VB 5 aspect of this

Perhaps they confused the word portable and ported. The trouble is, it would be hard to be stealthy. If the program were written as a .dll file or perhaps replaceing an active-x control... maybe.

That would assume VB runtime. Although I read somewhere that the GEMS database is Access, and I think that access includes portions of VB runtime, or at least the scripting language...

Just... not sure.

[IAMREALITY]

140. It's Starting to Piss Me Off

All these replies questioning the VB and how it would be done blah blah blazitty blah. People look in the mirror. Are you A NASA PROGRAMMER? If you're not, sit down please. Whether it was the wrong term in the article or whatever I think I could feel confident that the NASA PROGRAMMER knows what the heck he's talking about, far more then naysayer DU'rs.

[ExCiber]

157. Don't over estimate NASA

Back in the late 80's two other engineers and I were sent to NASA to recruit programmers after a major NASA layoff. In two days we interviewed over 200 applicants and did not make a single offer. Imagine over 100 people working on the Vertical and Horizontal payload packages and NOT one could explain what it really did or how it did it!

NASA has some very bright people but like many gov't projects there's a TON of dead wood.

[IAMREALITY]

158. Yeah

We Have that HERE too...

:eyes:

[mackdaddy]

177. Easy to re-write a working VB program to ANY other language

You can give a working prototype in VB with source to nearly any competent programmer and they can produce a version of the program in any computer language in existence. The first step in programming is always to define what you want to do, and this VB program even provides a working example and "algorithm".

In a previous life as an engineering manager, we would often prototype a program in VB or other to present to the client to get the "look and feel" or as a sales presentation before we would clean it up into its final form.

Being able to touch "secret key" areas on the touch screen is a clever way to turn the program on or off. It could also explain how things went wrong when the touch screens were not calibrated correctly you could accidentally turn this theft program on or off by having the activation area moved when the screen calibrations was moved.

[AntiFascist]

207. It is probably based on the....

DAO (Data Access Object) database. This can be used to write programs that create customized Microsoft Jet database files, but which can easily be opened and "hacked" using MS Access. If it is SQL-based it might cross-platform, I'm not that familiar with databases. The scripting would be used just to control MS Access.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

61. This story needs more attention

:kick:

[BushSpeak]

62. Ignore- posted to wrong group by error

[JunkYardDogg]

75. E-Mail I got from Clint Curtis

I E-Mailed Clint Curtis last week to get more info off his Web Site account

This is his E-Mail to Me:

Keep your eyes on the Vote Fraud Hearings starting in DC this week. All the questions you asked will be answered at that hearing. I would like to answer your questions directly but have been advised that I need to speak first to the Committee holding the hearings. If that fails us I will send you all the answers you request.

Sorry for the delay but I have been getting alot of email.

Clint Curtis

[Hamoth]

77. I hope he is

living in a bullet proof chamber until he is transported via pope-mobile to the hearing!

[goclark]

92. You got that right!!! Protect this man

and maybe it's best for us to give them code names until after they have their say.

[EMunster]

83. Why do I have the feeling his name use to be Leonard Lipshitz....

...or something like that.

[trudyco]

120. Pardon my ignorance - who is he? n/t

[EMunster]

138. his name...

almost sounds made up...almost like "Dirk Diggler" kind of made up...

[SharonRB]

110. I hope this means...

...he's testifying at the hearings. It may make me a believer to hear him tell his tale under oath. The lid is going to blow!!!!

:grouphug: :bounce:

[JunkYardDogg]

111. Clint Curtis E-Mail

I got this E-Mail from him on 12/4
I really wanted to post it-
but I thought it best not to publicize him out of safety sake

[Helga Scow Stern]

113. Best part so far... n/t

[Twist_U_Up]

121. you know that the pigs are going to discredite Clint.

I have already seen the article where Feeney already debunked him as a disgruntled employee.

I hope Madsen has more witnesses and or perps ready to come forward.
God I hope CSpan covers this.

[McCamy Taylor]

82. scary! maybe the press is afraid to cross the Bush administration

[rdmccur]

163. I think you're right

[Shalom]

84. Stuff is Hitting the Fan: Repigs Will "Discover" Dem Fraud

This is excellent work by Madsen, who has acknowledged support from DU, and I think Jamboi needs to be thanked in particular.

However, we must not be complacent, and should be prepared to counter pyscho-ops from the Repigs, most likely this week.

As incidents of outright voter fraud by Repigs surface, be prepared that they have some "canned" instances of fraud by Dems that they will release in a timely manner.

This will allow the Reich wing to make the argument that "everybody does it", and defuse the outrage over their theft of the Presidency for 2 consecutive elections.

The Repig slime will not go down the toilet easily unless we apply liberal amounts of caustic chemicals, such as Drano.

[Twist_U_Up]

91. If this Clint Curtis testifies Wendsday........

and is a totally credible witness,along with solid evidence.

this will be HUGE.....................................

[goclark]

101. I am on my knees in prayer!!!

This whole thread reminds me of what would have happened to the Watergate burglars if people had the combined brains of internet wiz kids that could dig for information.

We would have been able to get to the truth much faster!

This must work.

If the Rethugs had even a sentence of info on us they would be screaming it to high heaven.

What does it take to get our voices heard in
America?

[Quakerfriend]

95. Shalom you are too funny!

I love the DRANO part!!

[Shalom]

164. Are They Merely Slime, or a Flesh-Eating Virus ?

Thanks, libertybelle -

On second, thought, I don't think slime can propagate, and since the Bushitler dynasty has been sucking our blood for generations, I opt for the second definiton.

This would imply that even Drano may not eradicate these bastards, and than some strong anti-viral drug is required. Otherwise, we could defeat George Walker Bushitler, and some other spawn like Jebb Bush, might arise to take his place.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

105. Now THIS is the kind of chemical weapons assault I could get behind ! ;) -

[Carl Brennan]

116. LOL. Nice one

:toast:

[Peace Patriot]

209. I keep reminding people over and over...

...the main thing we have to do is to inform the Kerry voters (millions) who don't know what happened.

--Not to convince corporate pigsty media (though that would be nice).

--Not to get some kind of improbable change of heart by Bush supporters (that would be nice, too, if even some of them have a conscience or can still think straight).

--Not to convince Bush judges who will rule against us no matter what the facts are (though that, too, would be nice).

--Not to convince this Bush-fraud Congress to impeach the S.O.B.s who gave them illegitimate power (nice if some of them, too, would develop a conscience).

No, none of these things. But to...

...tell the majority in this country--Kerry voters!--what happened in this election.

1. They don't know! 2. But they DO suspect. 3. Give them the evidence and it will make their day.

Then we have a movement--to try to oust Bush Inc., and failing that, to get the election reforms needed* to have an honest election in '06 and elect a progressive, impeachment-minded Congress. If the existing mountain of evidence of '04 election fraud proves nothing else, it proves that we HAVE the votes! The country went "blue," big time.

(* a. paper trail. b. open source code.)

So...stop trying to convince the unconvincable, and instead aim at getting the word out to those who already suspect the truth, whose votes were deleted, and who are most likely to do something about it--the Kerry majority.

This is not to say: Don't try to be convincing to any who will listen; or don't try to get the facts and use them convincingly. But don't be so worried about how it will "play" in the controlled media. If the people can get any information about this, at all straight on--an Arnebeck interview, a Conyers hearing, a Madsen sound bite--even if the reporter screws it up, or puts out disinformation--people will begin grokking the truth because they WANT TO know what happened to THEIR vote.

Just remember, this is a voting public who SAW THROUGH all the lies--including the Swiftboat Liars lies--and voted to throw these dogs out of office. That's what they did. And they know they did it, too--deep down (just the way WE knew, on Election Night, that something was very wrong). Just give them half a chance. Just get the information to them. They do NOT need convincing. They just need to know that there is a growing mountain of facts that proves their gut feelings right!

[genieroze]

96. Kick

[sunnystarr]

106. Kick (nt)

[SharonRB]

109. I finally read the whole article...

...and if 1/4 of this is true, it's amazing! I know KO hasn't put much credence into the other three articles, but this is fascinating reading. I assume someone has forwarded it to him. I want so much to believe it's true, but I'm afraid to. Either Madsen has just uncovered the greatest plot to ever be carried out in US history or it's the beginning of a great novel/movie script. How do we verify this and get it into the right hands without sounding like we're totally insane? I want so badly to see * and all of his cohorts spend the rest of their lives in jail for this.

[Duer 157099]

119. Clint has a book available on Amazon

I know this has been posted elsewhere on DU but haven't seen it in this thread.

It might be an interesting read...?

Just a Fly on the Wall
by Clint Curtis

Edition: Paperback

Other Editions: List Price: Our Price: Other Offers:
Hardcover $29.95 $29.95 2 used & new from $45.31
Product Details:

Paperback: 316 pages
Publisher: Clint Curtis (September, 2004)
ISBN: 0976195917
Product Dimensions: 9.2 x 6.1 x 0.7 inches
Shipping Weight: 15.7 ounces. (View shipping rates and policies)
Average Customer Review: based on 2 reviews. (Write a review)
Amazon.com Sales Rank in Books: #1,174,051
(Publishers and authors: improve your sales)
In-Print Editions: Hardcover | All Editions

[Twist_U_Up]

another propaganda tool for the pigs n/t

[milkyway]

137. It's a self-published book. Interesting that both reviewers have only

reviewed this book (and both 5 stars!). Did Clint create these "reviewers" to push his own book?

[Amy6627]

122. Lawsuit

Has anyone heard anything about Cliff Arnebeck, Counsel in Lawsuit Challenging Presidential Election in Ohio? Has the lawsuit been filed? What happening with this?

[Zan_of_Texas]

196. Yesterday, Arnebeck planned to file the contest of election today.

The wait turned out to be because the law says the contest can only be filed after the SOS certifies the election. That was anticipated to happen today, Monday.

[pgh_dem]

123. posted on a diff thread re: vote flipping

From reading Clint Curtis' description of the way the flip worked, was wondering if it occurred to anyone else that building in some 'bad calibration' causing Kerry votes to show up Bush gave 'the bad guys' (whoever they are) opportunities as election officials to 'recalibrate' the touch screens...in the process touching the upper left corner to activate the flipping program, hitting the R character on the screen to flip the votes to 51% Repub...that kind of thing?
Seems implausible to involve so many people at so many precincts...but of course you could just 'train' people who didn't know any better that their actions really are the correct way to recalibrate the touchscreens.
Spoooooky.

[Stagger lee]

125. we really need to stop

falling for these crackpots. Look, in Madsen's article
Clint Curtis worked for Yang. Yet on this webpage, which seems to be Clint's, the company is referred to as Wong. Something that basic would not be screwed up by credible sources.

http://www.justaflyonthewall.com/

Also, Clint has a post at the bottom of this blog which suggests that if he did not write the above website, he at least endorses it.

http://everythingstinks.com/es/2004/08/my_truth_is_tha.html

[Stagger lee]

127. oh please...

check out how Clint "found out" that he was involved in vote manipulation...
------------------------
The next day I complete the prototype and presented it to Mrs. Wong. I stressed how the tampering could be detected. She quickly set me straight as the to true intention. Her exact words were "If we can’t hide the manipulation, we won’t get the contract the program is needed to control the south Florida vote." Another confirmation of why I needed to get a different job.

http://www.justaflyonthewall.com/
---------------

come on guys this one stinks to the heavens.

[Duer 157099]

131. The idea being..?

Since it's documented that "a" Clint Curtis was involved in a Florida DOT whistle-blower case, is the idea that:

1) the person writing the "fly on the wall" stuff is not the same Clint Curtis but a decoy

or

2) that this is the same Clint Curtis but he's now a "disgruntled former employee" who is making stuff up?

or, of course, it's possible that it's:

3) it's just all true

[Stagger lee]

139. I'm saying that

this Clint Curtis is most likely not trustworthy.

First of all, Madsen and him can not even get the name of his employer correct.

Second, the way that Curtis found out about the conspiracy is absurd. Do you really think his boss said "If we can’t hide the manipulation, we won’t get the contract the program is needed to control the south Florida vote."

If we are counting on Madsen and Curtis to bring this thing to light we are in deep trouble.

[IAMREALITY]

145. This Has Been Explained MULTIPLE TIMES ALREADY

Posts full of such disinformation and lack of knowledge do nothing more then scream foolishness.

[Carl Brennan]

126. Note: Lockheed Martin cited in Madsen article. Lynne Cheney,

Dickhead's wife, is on the BOD.


http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45c/208.html
"Bush-Cheney is the arms industry's dream team. Bush tried to give Lockheed Martin a contract to run the Texas welfare system. Lockheed Martin VP Bruce Jackson, a finance chair of the Bush for President campaign, was heard to brag at a conference last year that he would be in a position to 'write the Republican platform' on defense. Under Cheney, Halliburton went from 73rd to 18th on the Pentagon's top contractors list. Cheney's wife, Lynne, serves on Lockheed Martin's board, a service for which she receives $120,000 in compensation."
--WILLIAM HARTUNG, Senior research fellow at the World Policy Institute and author of the recent report "Lockheed Martin and the GOP: Profiteering and Pork Barrel Politics with a Purpose," [e-mail], <http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/arms/>

[milkyway]

129. A problem with Madsen's articles: unclear sourcing.

Madsen really could use footnotes and/or links to clarify where his info is coming from. While in some instances it's clear, frequently it is not.

For instance, Madsen says, "LePore had once been an employee of Saudi multi-billionaire Adnan Khashoggi..."

I never knew that, and find it very interesting. Is this newly discovered info from Madsen, or is this something that has been in the media before? If so, a footnote with a link would be helpful.

I am skeptical by nature, and I'm even skeptical of the skeptics. I always want to know where information is coming from so I can judge the veracity of it. While I want to believe Madsen (and Curtis), and I think at least some of it is true, the lack of clear sourcing damages Madsen's credibility. And if I feel that way, more mainstream people will feel that way even more.

The wingnuts went after the Clintons with garbage reporting in the 90's, leading to the Vince Foster "murder," the Clinton death list, and all kinds of crap. The recent Conyers letter to Blackwell was much more powerful because of its use of footnotes citing sources. Madsen and others investigating election fraud need to likewise thoroughly document their evidence if they don't want to be contemptuously dismissed by the mainstream.

[Carl Brennan]

143. I supplied Madsen with that information on Lepore

and I've been having alot of trouble with my computer ever since. maybe :tinfoilhat:

Did Adnan Khashoggi Throw the Election to Dubya?
Timothy Noah
Posted Monday, December 4, 2000, at 2:56 PM PT
On Dec. 1, the "Washington Wire" column in the Wall Street Journal published this gratifyingly noir item about the postelection drama in Florida:
"Madame Butterfly" Theresa LePore wasn't always an embattled Palm Beach ballots chief. In the 1980s, she moonlighted as a flight attendant on private planes owned by Saudi weapons dealer Adnan Khashoggi, a middleman in Reagan administration arms sales to Iran.
Connoisseurs of Khashoggi-centric conspiracy theories should have little difficulty using this information to finger Khashoggi as the mastermind of the plot to deny Al Gore the presidency. Khashoggi has close ties, from Iran-Contra and elsewhere, to the Republicans, and vaguely defined ties to Dubya's father. (In a 1990 court case, Khashoggi's phone records revealed that Khashoggi had spoken at least twice with George Bush's vice-presidential office during 1985 and 1986.) LePore worked for Khashoggi during the 1980s, when, according to her official biography, she was chief deputy supervisor of elections in Palm Beach County, a job she held until 1996, when she was elected supervisor of elections. Ergo, LePore has been working as a Khashoggi asset to elect the son of Khashoggi's old comrade-in-arms, George Bush!
Continued...
<http://www.slate.msn.com/?id=1006609>
BTW: This was in December 2000. More recently, Khashoggi was doing lunch with Richard Perle of PNAC fame. Perle asked Khashoggi to "invest" $100 million in his company, Trireme. Seymour Hersh wrote about it in The New Yorker.
More on Lepore link to Khashoggi:
http://www.questionsquestions.net/docs04/khashoggi-911_2.html

[starroute]

149. The LaPore/Kashoggi link came out four years ago

Here's a DU thread from January 2003 that mentions it:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/duforum/DCForumID60/30849.html

And here's the Slate article referred to in the thread, which is still available:
http://www.slate.msn.com/?id=1006609

Did Adnan Khashoggi Throw the Election to Dubya?
Timothy Noah
Posted Monday, Dec. 4, 2000, at 2:56 PM PT

On Dec. 1, the "Washington Wire" column in the Wall Street Journal published this gratifyingly noir item about the postelection drama in Florida:

"Madame Butterfly" Theresa LePore wasn't always an embattled Palm Beach ballots chief. In the 1980s, she moonlighted as a flight attendant on private planes owned by Saudi weapons dealer Adnan Khashoggi, a middleman in Reagan administration arms sales to Iran.

The article then goes on to make fun of any suggestion that Kashoggi could have been behind the Bush vote fraud in 2000. But in its very attempts to mock Kashoggi conspiracy theories by tossing in irrelevancies, it brings up a lot of genuinely bothersome Kashoggi connections

You might, by the way, try Googling things yourself before you attempt to debunk them. It's fun, it's simple, and it works!

[milkyway]

160. You completely misunderstood what I wrote. I did not try to debunk

the LePore/Kashoggi connection. I simply stated that I did not know this before, and Madsen did not make clear where this info was coming from.

Your statement that I should try googling things myself actually strengthens the point I was making. Certainly, readers should not be expected to find out the source of every bit of info by having to search it out themselves rather than the reporter simply stating it.

Newspapers and most magazines do not footnote their reporting, but this is mainly due to space limitations and readability. Instead, it's contained within the article itself.

Madsen's article contains a wealth of information, and he weaves together a narrative from a number of sources (Curtis, past media reports, Madsen's own investigating, etc.). His writing sometimes leaves it unclear where a particular piece of info is coming from. His credibility would be enhanced if he would clarify his sourcing with footnotes and links.

The Wall Street Journal and Slate links show that this connection between LePore and Kashoggi is undoubtedly true. Madsen should have cited them, rather than just make a statement without providing any evidence for it and leaving the statement open to doubt.

[Eloriel]

153. The LePore-Kashoggi connection has been known

around DU for a long time.

[dlaliberte]

159. Annotated Madsen needed

I agree that source references for the many facts in his articles would be very valuable for readers to start doing their own verification.

How fast could we (DU) put together a parallel version of Madsen's article (#4 in the series anyway) that adds all the references we can find? Ideally multiple, independent references for each point should be provided. Several people should validate the references (that they point to what they say the point to, and the info is relevant and correct, as far as we know). Commentary about each reference would be useful to, to explain the connection.

I am a newbie here at DU. Some else needs to take the ropes, but I will help where I can.

[Peace Patriot]

211. "Madsen and others investigating...

...election fraud need to likewise thoroughly document their evidence if they don't want to be contemptuously dismissed by the mainstream."--milkyway

Yeah, like how those ace journalists in the mainstream "thoroughly" documented the justifications for invading Iraq, the carnage in Iraq, the 100,000 innocents killed by our bombs in Iraq, the pollutants in the air at ground zero on 9/11, the gaping holes in the 9/11 investigation, the real cost of the Medicare prescription drug bill, the huge, enthusiastic, unvetted crowds at Kerry rallies vs. the totally managed, loyalty-oathed, Koolaid-drinkers bussed in for Bush ...

Sorry, I couldn't help it. I have such utter contempt for the mainstream media.

Of course we should be as "thoroughly" documented as possible, even while the Fourth Reich gets away with lie after lie after lie after lie after lie...

[milkyway]

217. The mainstream media is almost uniformly horrible. They are nothing

more than conduits of government propaganda. There are hardly any real journalists anymore, but there are a lot of people that play one on television. Mainstream journalism died a couple of decades ago.

That doesn't, however, detract from my point about Madsen. The more "out there" a reporter's charges are, the more carefully he needs to source his story.

More devious "reporters" will play a game of three-card monte when they source their reports (right, Fox?). They'll deliberately mislead the viewer or reader into believing some info came from a highly credible source mentioned earlier in the report, without making it clear that the second bit of evidence did not.

[Razorback_Democrat]

132. I hope Curtis is what he seems to be

as he will be Roved for sure

(aka they will try to discredit him with anything from his past to cast doubt on his assertions, look at Burnett? in the Rather story)

I want to believe him, but it is strange that he has just been waiting for someone to listen to him, even almost advertising his story.

[EMunster]

148. I hope he's dreamy

[Razorback_Democrat]

237. WTF? n/t

[mdb]

133. Very interesting.

This has got to be the biggest "flip flop" so far (not to say Kerry ever "flip flopped").

Just a thought but, I find it a little odd that throughout the campaign these two words were used by Bush. I have thought how the Bush admin came up with these words and thought it was pretty good to just grab these words from thin air and use them like they did. It was a good catch phrase. But now on second thought my thinking is perhaps it came from the program Curtis wrote.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

165. Yeah, maybe they were giddy over their own flip-flopping scam -nt

[starroute]

136. Japanese gold as the source of the funds

I started looking into the Japanese gold story after Madsen mentioned it in his first article. What I found initially seemed just too off-the-wall, in an Indiana Jones kind of way, to be believed. But the further I look into it, the more it adds up -- unlike hoax stories, which tend to develop more and more holes as you pursue them.

The public story, about which there is no doubt, is that before and during World War II, the Japanese were systematically looting China and other countries of their gold and precious gems. This loot they buried in various caches, mainly in the Philippines but also some in Korea and Indonesia. When the war ended, the US found out about it and, with a little torture here and a few pardons of war criminals there, was able to get access to the locations. The money was used as an unofficial slush fund by the US through the fifties but eventually turned back to the Japanese, where it helped to fund their economic recovery and prop up the dominant center-right governments. There are still a few caches left here and there that no one has been able to get to, due to flooding and booby traps, but every once in a while someone sets off on a treasure-hunting expecition to try to recover them.

The unofficial story is that the amount of valuables in these caches was far vaster that has ever been acknowledged -- quite literally, the fabled riches of the Orient -- and that all sorts of people have been drawing on them to advance their right-wing agendas over the last 50 years. For example, a principal founder of Moon's Unificaton Church, Kodama Yoshio, was one of those Japanese war criminals released by the CIA because of his knowledge of the gold. Other names that come up in connection with the gold are Ferdinand Marcos, Adnan Kashoggi, and the Bush family.

This is the money "from the East" that Madsen refers to when he speaks about Five Star Trust.

See http://www.bowstring.net/valentine%20review.htm for a review of Gold Warriors: The Plundering of Asia by Douglas Valentine and http://www.bowstring.net/piper%20review.htm for information on Gold Warriors: America's Secret Recovery of Yamashita's Gold by Sterling and Peggy Seagrave. See also http://www.spitfirelist.com/f428.html for additional information on the Seagrave book.

And see the Google cache at http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:lAfbRjUIgi8J:www.ctrl.org/ahs/7O23-04-15.html+japanese+gold+singlaub&hl=en&client=firefox-a for "Taped Conversations & a Shower of Gold for America" by Alex Constantine, which brings Kashoggi into the picture and also connects him with 911.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

171. What do you think about this "Five Star" Refinery in NYC?

They basically melt down gold objects... The business is 25 years old, and is located about a block from Rockefeller Center. Madsen wrote that the gold bars were transported to the International Diamond Exchange Vaults near Rockefeller Center. Can this Five Star be connected to, or the same as, MAdsen's Five Star Trust?

"The Company provides on-site smelting of gold and other precious metals in attractive offices located in the heart of the 47th Street gold buying district."

[starroute]

186. It doesn't look like a useful avenue to follow

Frankly, the part of the Madsen piece that seemed flukiest to me was the suggestion that they would risk drawing attention to themselves by using the "Five Star" name for a variety of otherwise unrelated operations. It's possible that they would muddy the waters by trying to confuse things with a scam operation like Horn's, but I really can't see them publicly displaying a connection with an apparently legitimate New York gold refiner.

Also, any place that is in the business of melting down old dental crowns just doesn't seem like a likely suspect . . .

[eowyn_of_rohan]

189. Thanks for the slap in the face ;)

I was getting burnt out on this anyway. Funny how we (I at least) can be so convinced we are onto something HUGE! then slide back into discouragement, and feel like we are patsys or something...

[rumpel]

183. I did not know of the gold

but I do know that a prominent politician was seeking ways to export tons of "personal" money from Japan in the mid 80's using various means, including buying US real property, but never using the large prominent trade companies, but very small privately owned companies.

[Zan_of_Texas]

201. starroute -- good ta see ya! More on gold

This was posted at DU in July.

Bush - gold - Khashoggi all in one deal.

Khashoggi was a big name in Iran-Contra too.


previously posted by SeemsLikeADream 7-5-04 at DU

I just can not forget that Poppy's gold mining buddies Barrick

War is Golden for the Bush Administration

And the commodities connection? President Pretzel's relentless hissy-fit for war on Iraq has of course goosed the price of gold enormously--and that's set Bush Family coffers a-clinking. How so? In the waning days of his failed presidency, Bush I invoked an obscure 1872 statute to give a Canadian firm, Barrick Corporation, the right to mine $10 billion in gold from U.S. public lands. (U.S. taxpayers got a whopping $10,000 fee in return.) Bush then joined Barrick as a highly-paid "international consultant," brokering deals with various dictators of his close acquaintance. Barrick reciprocated with big bucks for Junior's presidential run. And in another quid for the old pro quo, last year Junior dutifully approved Barrick's controversial acquisition of a major rival. (Barrick is also one of the biggest polluters in America, by the way.)

<http://www.counterpunch.org/floyd02152003.html>

The money behind Barrick is from Saudi arms dealer and Bush family friend Adnan Khashoggi, who was identified as conduit in the Iran-Contra conspiracy. In 1986 he was arrested and charged with fraud but failed to be convicted. In one of his last acts as president Bush pardoned Khashoggi's alleged co-conspirators, who were key members of Bush's own cabinet. As a result, no case could be made against Khashoggi - or against Bush himself.

[ElementaryPenguin]

141. Permanent kick!!

[EMunster]

142. Journo 101

From your examples, what here would make a newspaper editor nervous?

This reporter has obtained a copy of a bank check for $29,600,000 that was allegedly sent to cover the cost of the Texas-based vote rigging operation. The check is dated October 22, 2004, and was made payable to "Five Star Investment Ltd.," a trust said to have long connections to Saudi-funded operations in Texas and around the world. The payer is identified as "Equity Financial Trust," a Houston-based "brass plate" and post office box entity tied to offshore Cook Islands "folding tent" accounts used to hide away profits amassed by the former Enron as well as Saudi financiers.

[ngant17]

154. Feeney and Yang enterprises

I think Tom Feeney at one time made a statement about a Florida secession from the US. He is rightly said the David Duke of the Rep. rightwing in Fla.

I live in Oviedo, Florida area and I frequently go past the Yang building. It's hard to miss it. In fact, on Monday, 6 Dec., I went upstairs to the corporate office and asked the secretary if Ms. Yang would like to make a public statement on Mr. Madsen's allegations. No response so far. Waiting to see if someone will bite on this. Wouldn't hold your breath though.

[peacetalksforall]

168. Isn't it time to hit the web and see if Madsen missed anything

before anything is cleaned up, if possible to clean?

He said (he did?) exhaustive surveying, but could there be more.

[november3rd]

155. madsen iv

it keeps getting better. would love to see this hit the mainstream!

[peacetalksforall]

161. A tidbit on Feeney

"· Politics: In Tallahassee, House Speaker Tom Feeney is one of Florida’s most powerful elected officials, but in Orange County he’s a lobbyist for Republic Services Inc., a massive waste hauling firm, Yang Enterprises, a computer-programming and data-storage company, and Wackenhut Inc., the South Florida-based security company that runs two of the state’s five privately run prisons. These dual roles have raised concerns among some Central Florida elected officials, given Feeney’s strong grip on the state’s purse strings. It is not a violation of state ethics law to serve as a stat legislator and to lobby local governments, but it is a violation to serve as a state legislator and lobby state government. No other speaker in state history is thought to have served as a lobbyist while presiding over the House. Eight of the past ten speakers have become lobbyists, but only after leaving office. (Jon Steinman, Orlando Sentinel Staff Writer, 11/20/01)"

http://www.azcops.org/article_8.html
Arizona Conf of Police and Sheriffs

Seems Feeney has the b...s to do something like this.
He is Cheney like.
Appears he's got a big job in his future.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

162. A security company that owns 2 privately run prisons...

...and rumors have it that some of the hackers were prisoners.

[Twist_U_Up]

166. yea cleaning toilets at Guantanimo Bay Camp XRAY

as Madsen puts it

[brindis_desala]

170. wackenhut is CIA be careful...

[buzzard]

173. Who is wackenhut

[brindis_desala]

175. Front (also "protects" some of our embassies.)

William Corbett, who worked for the CIA for 18 years, told the US-based Spy Magazine, “For years Wackenhut has been involved with the CIA and other intelligence organisations. Wackenhut would allow the CIA to occupy positions within the company clandestine operations.”

He also said that Wackenhut would supply intelligence agencies with information, and that it was compensated for this “in a quid pro quo arrangement”.

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2001/450/450p15.htm

[pixelthief]

172. Delay delivers NASA budget increase

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1802&ncid=1802&e=1&u=/washpost/20041206/ts_washpost/a38092_2004dec5

[Alizaryn]

178. I will not be surprised to find Delay swimming right in the

middle of this whole scenario. (I would actually be surprised if he is not involved.)

[txindy]

188. I would be amazed if he didn't owe his re-election to this operation

No way was that person re-elected by his constituency. No way.

[Evening Star]

206. Take Me To The Moon

Take Me To The Moon
by Patrick Nuo

Album :


I'm gonna tell a story,
To my love.
If you don't hear this message,
You will get it from above.

I'm running endless streets
To find you unknown girl.
Somewhere you're meant for me
And I promise you my world.

Take me to the moon,
If you want to.
Take me to the stars,
If you can.
Take me to the moon
As soon as possible
And back again.
Take me to the moon.
Oh.

Every dream's about you,
Day and night.
Oh hmm.
I've been so long without you,
But I feel you all my life.
Imagine you live next to me
And just came through my door.
How blind my eyes can be
I can't take it anymore.

Take me to the moon,
If you want to.
Take me to the stars,
If you can.
Take me to the moon
As soon as possible
And back again.

Take me to the moon,
If you want to.
Take me to the stars,
If you like.
Take me to the Venus
As we find a way
We'll be alright.

Take me to the moon.
We'll get there,
We'll make it on time.
Take me to the moon,
And back here
And you will be mine.

Take me to the moon,
If you want to.
Take me to the stars,
If you can.
Take me to the moon
As soon as possible
And back again.

Take me to the moon,
If you want to.
Take me to the stars,
If you like.
Take me to the Venus
As we find a way
We'll be alright.

Take me to the moon.

Oh.

[Nothing Without Hope]

179. Here are the 4 Madsen articles' individual URLs

I don't know what to think of Madsen's elaborate story. With old cached gold, bizarre foreign connections, slimy pols, secretly helpful spooks, and all sorts of other amazing things it reads like an over-the-top pop spy thriller. If it's a true story and can be proved, it's wonderful news. If it's fake, sloppy, or a Repub plant, it's obviously not. I'm hoping for the best and withholding judgment for now.

In any case, if you want to read all four of Madsen's reports on voter fraud in order, here they are. (Jamboi gave the direct link to the 4th, but you have to poke around a bit to get all the others at the other link he gave.) All are HTML but have links to downloadable pdf versions.

Part I: 11/25/04
"Saudis, Enron money helped pay for US rigged election"
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/112504Madsen/112504madsen.html

Part II: 11/26/04
"More on the buying of electoral fraud by the Bush campaign"
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/112604Madsen/112604madsen.html

Part III: 12/1/04
"Votergate: More details emerge"
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/120104Madsen/120104madsen.html

Part IV: 12/6/04
"Texas to Florida: White House-linked clandestine operation paid for "vote switching" software"
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/120604Madsen/120604madsen.html

[eowyn_of_rohan]

180. Computer experts--What kind of equipment is this, and why are these pics

on Five Star Refiners info page with no corresponding text?
http://www.refinegold.com/assayers/index.html

Thanks!

[jbond56]

203. X-ray Flourescence Analyser

For the analysis a sample is irradiated with x-rays generated in a high-intensity X-ray tube. The elements in the sample are excited by absorption of this primary beam and emit their own characteristic fluorescence X-rays. In the process of absorption of X-ray energy in the sample, electrons are dislodged from the innermost shells. An electron vacancy must be replaced from the next outer shell. This creates a new vacancy which is filled from the next shell, and so on. The electrons move from higher to lower energy levels and as a result emit energy in form of a characteristic X-radiation. The generated X-ray spectrum consists of a number of spectral lines, which must be separated and identified by wavelength or energy. The wavelength is specific to the elements responsible for their production. Therefore the X-rays are diffracted by a diffraction crystal with known spacing d under a specified angle and counted by an X-ray detector.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

221. I don't know what kind of bullshit answer this is supposed to be

So if you are being a smartass, spare me. All I want to know is what brand is that machine on the right, and what is it. Also think it is STRANGE that there are these 3 machines in this picture with no corresponding text

[jbond56]

231. damn your rude

Your question:
What kind of equipment is this, and why are these pics on Five Star Refiners info page with no corresponding text?

now you question:
All I want to know is what brand is that machine on the right, and what is it.

Sea 2010 X-ray Flourescence Analyser made by Seiko


The page is a price list for Assays and displays the equipment they use.


NOT STRANGE.


Assay n.
1. Qualitative or quantitative analysis of a substance, especially of an ore or drug, to determine its components.
2. A substance to be so analyzed.
3. The result of such an analysis.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

232. Sorry for the rudeness-nt

[Vinnie From Indy]

184. Skepticism is Our Friend!

Madsen, Bev and Bradblog may be credible and they may be uncovering vital information that can be used to move the issue of vote fraud forward, but, as a community, we need to be cognizant that theories are NOT evidence. The awesome energy, focus and passion that is displayed on these forums undoubtedly make an attractive target for liars, thieves and charlatans. Skepticism is our friend in these matters. We should honor results and not solely proclaimed effort.

[IAMREALITY]

185. Hmm

"The awesome energy, focus and passion that is displayed on these forums undoubtedly make an attractive target for liars, thieves and charlatans"

Couldn't agree with you more. (though I'm sure I'm not taking it in the context you intended me to)

[Vinnie From Indy]

195. Thanks

Thanks (ditto)

[IAMREALITY]

197. This is Kinda Awkward..

But I don't think you took my message right....

...But I'll tell you what, I will rescind my judgement from my original post anyway pending further review of your future contexts.

For now, Welcome to DU.

:hi:

[Vinnie From Indy]

200. Thank You!

That sounds like a fair deal!
Cheers!

[skids]

204. To the person reading this at 5AM :-)

GO TO BED! This will still be here tommorrow morning. You could even save yourself a copy to make sure. In the morning, you will be sharper, and more able to concentrate and deal with it.

Here is a lulliby for you coyrtesy of the Talking Heads, which I hope you will appreciate, given your head is probably swimming by now:



Lost my shape-trying to act casual!
Can’t stop-i might end up in the hospital
I’m changing my shape-i feel like an accident
They’re back!-to explain their experience

Isn’t it weird/looks too obscure to me
Wasting away/and that was their policy

I’m ready to leave-i push the fact in front of me
Facts lost-facts are never what they seem to be
Nothing there!-no information left of any kind
Lifting my head-looking for danger signs

There was a line/there was a formula
Sharp as a knife/facts cut a hole in us
There was a line/there was a forula
Sharp as a knife/facts cut a hole in us

I’m still waiting...I’m still waiting...I’m still waiting...
I’m still waiting...I’m still waiting...I’m still waiting...
I’m still waiting...I’m still waiting...

The feeling returns/whenever we close out eyes
Lifting my head/looking around inside

The island of doubt-it’s like the taste of medicine
Working by hindsight-got the message from the oxygen
Making a list-find the cost of opportunity
Doing it right-facts are useless in emergencies

The feeling returns/whenever we close out eyes
Lifting my head/looking around inside.

Facts are simple and facts are straight
Facts are lazy and facts are late
Facts all come with points of view
Facts don’t do what I want them to
Facts just twist the truth around
Facts are living turned inside out
Facts are getting the best of them
Facts are nothing on the face of things
Facts don’t stain the furniture
Facts go out and slam the door
Facts are written all over your face
Facts continue to change their shape

I’m still waiting...I’m still waiting...I’m still waiting...
I’m still waiting...I’m still waiting...I’m still waiting...
I’m still waiting...I’m still waiting...

[Shalom]

187. Need Computer Whiz Thread on Scams, and Other Ideas

We need computer/programmer/data base experts to explore all the variations of fixing voting machines, given that Curtis just did a proto, and if there is hacking software in machines used in the election, it may be configured quite differently than Curtis envisioned. I suggest they set up a thread to focus on this.

To seed this discussion, I have a few amateur ideas below which can be discarded if they make no sense:

1. I have really scary thought that may or may not be plausible: Is it possible that a "combination lock" of the type we are considering could be provided to allow an "Egyptian Tomb" option, in which (after hacking is complete), a final instruction is given to obliterate the hacking code, as well as the trigger for the "Egyptian Tomb", so that subsequent readout of the machine code would not have the hacking SW at all. (This idea, of course, is based upon the practice of Egyptian pharohs to inter the slaves who created the secret passages to their tombs in the pyramids)

You've got to believe they (Diebold, ES&S) would not want to rely upon the "proprietary" aspect of their software to prevent us from determining afterwards they had scammed us - they would want a way to hide their trail. It there was evidence of crime, the courts could dictate that they open up their source code, and require that they verify it against the compiled binary code in the machine. By having the "Egyptian Tomb" feature, they could provide a "clean" version of their source code to the courts, and it would match the contents of the machine after scrubbing.
(Don't know how feasible this is - for comment by experts)

I suggested another hacking variation in another message which I copied below:

2. Voting machines are set up with "combination locks" based upon data entry sequence or hidden buttons for intrusion NOT during voting, but afterwards: either during lockdowns (which is not absolutely required), or during readout of results by poll workers.

This makes it much easier to carry out, since fewer people would be involved, since it is best to hack lots of voting machines and avoid large machine-to-machine variatons, which is a signature of fraud.

NOTE: This "grand larceny" can be combined, and loaded into the machine, with with "petty larceny" software that runs automatically during voting; for example, something that "just" inflates Bush votes for 5 %. The "grand larcency" software would be available after the voting process to massage the results when and if necessary to give Bush the election.

[skids]

202. The possibilities are endless.

1) Egyptian tomb:

This is certainly possible in theory. In order to prevent a computer program from deleting a portion of its own code, measures must be explicitly taken in the design of the machine. If you can trust the operating system, but not the program, these measures can be part of the operating system. If you cannot trust the operating system to be clean, the measures must be part of the hardware, for example, the program and operating system machine code must be kept on a read-only media. There are tons of different voting machines, each with their own internal architecture. My bet is not many of them have the level of security neccessary to prevent such a thing from happening.

Another spin on this is what if the program was written not to allow a user to alter votes, but to allow a user to alter the *program*. The code to actually munge votes is pretty small. If a back door in the touch screen were left whereby a person could touch a rehearsed sequence on the touch screen and generate code, then that code could be run and then later deleted. In this case, the only evidence left behind is the back door itself, not what entered through it. It would be much easier to make a back door like that look like a bug in the computer program caused by faulty programming (for the true techies, think: overrunning the input buffer into the code stack.)

2) Combination locks:

Yes they could be used anywhere in the process.

Pretty much the answer to anything is "yes, they could have done that." The only way to tell you what they could not have done is to do a detailed study of each and every make and model of machine, and to look at the machines used in the election, and any records about software installation. This is a herculean task, and sorry to say, it won't happen on DU, we don't have the manpower.

But questions are good, and DU is good at coming up with them, so let's make a list. My questions are:

1) Why were errors made user-visible? Was it a bug that people saw their votes switch? Was it an intentional bug put their by someone involved as a way to warn the electorate? Could the alleged fraudsters simply have had limited options, and have been forced to use a system where the vote changes ran the chance of being seen? Were the user-visible problems a decoy, to make us look at the wrong precincts, or the wrong part of the system while the tally gets hacked at the end of the day? Or, were the user-visible bugs put there on purpose for plausible deniability, so that there was evidence that an "innocent design flaw" tended to favor one side of the ticket, as an insirance policy should they called on the carpet?

[Shalom]

213. Good, Thoughtful Analysis

Thanks, "skids" - I think someone has started a thread somewhere where people like yourself (that know what they are talking about) can focus on the what the technical options for fraud are (may have been different hacks in 00, 02, and 04) and what the signatures might be. (Need to separate "font and fax experts" from "facts" experts)

Your question on bugs that surfaced in real-time is extremely important to ask - my thinking is that this was definitely not intentional, but the result of messy hacks. Assuming this is true, I think these machines should be given extra scrutiny.

Thanks Again!

[dlaliberte]

222. Endless variations on a theme

Hi skids... I am a software developer too, willing to help where I can. You seem to have most of this issue well in hand, but the endless possibilities leave plenty of room for more ideas.

A couple thoughts on the idea of a program that can delete itself, or at least the portions of itself that do the vote flipping (or whatever the nasty thing is designed to do). Yes, it could do this, but it could only do it once. The original program would have had the code which does the vote modification as well as the ability to delete itself and both of these components must be deleted in order to leave no traces.

But there would very likely be traces on the old version on the hard disk unless it overwrote those parts of the disk. This just seems unlikely given the complexity. It might be easiest just to self-destruct by overwriting the whole disk rather than appear completely innocent. This would be suspicious too.

Another way to make changes to code that would not be visible afterwards is to load it into the runtime memory, and thus never write it to disk. This could happen by network access or perhaps by typing into a console or loading an external memory device such as a floppy drive (not that I think these evoting machines have a floppy drive). Once the machine is power-cycled, the evidence is gone.

Regarding the user-visible errors, it seems likely that the modification was very limited in what it could do. Even though the error of flipping the voters' selection was noticed by some people, not all people will notice it, and such an error all by itself might account for most of the surplus votes for Bush. Also, we have heard that poll works were telling voters that the summary/confirmation page that showed the flipped vote was wrong and go ahead and accept the vote.

Some people backed up and retried several times before the correct vote showed up in the summary. It is interesting to speculate how this non-deterministic behavior could result. Why would it not do the same thing every time? If it decides (based on the current tally) that it will do the flip, it could use a random function to reverse that decision with probability of say 1/10, or it could do the flip no more than 10 times in a row.

Note that there is no possibility of recounting such a flipped vote to correct the problem because people really did record a vote that they did not intend. Only statistical evidence (e.g. exit polls, or conflicts with other votes on the ballot) would suggest that people did not intend to vote this way.

I think a user-visible error like this is unlikely to be due to some kind of innocent alignment error, or even a subtle user interface error, and thus it would show up in the code if it were examined. So why have we not been able to examine these machines? They are supposedly protected from such examination because the code is proprietary. Well, if they believe this is enough protection, then there is no need for self-deleting code that covers its tracks. Eventually, they need to destroy the evidence before the courts can get around to deciding there is no way to prove fraud in this case without examining the machines.

The story about the 21 evoting machines in Florida that were taken away (to a warehouse?) is very suspicious making you wonder why and what they are doing with them. A memory purge would be very likely.

[wiggs]

191. Sibel Edmons

Besides the fact that her name should be mentioned on DU somewhere everyday.....

...this is the kind of starting point information that Edmons ALREADY HAS on the why/who/how of 9/11. She has insight into the money trail for 9/11, but has been gagged by the Justic Department indefinitely.

Du'ers and bloggers are tremendous research engines, given a starting point. Imagine the kind of research that could be done by DUers and bloggers for Edmons if she were able to tell us the starting point, like Curtis is on this issue?

[shraby]

205. There is a series of threads on Sibel Edmonds

taking what little is known and a lot was found out. Don't have the link to them, but someone might have.

[tonyblair]

193. I'm posting this because

I don't know how big this story was in US. Petrina Khashoggi is the daughter of Jonathan Aitken, a former Conservative minister gaoled for perjury (he is now a born-again Roman Catholic) by Khashoggi's wife. The story has a Saudi connection.

http://www.arts.telegraph.co.uk/htmlContent.jhtml?html=/archive/1999/06/09/nait09.html

(Edited to add link to background of Iraq arms deals) http://www.guardian.co.uk/aitken/Story/0,2763,208498,00.html

[tonyblair]

194. more ...

Sorry, some of the links there are dead. Try these, from the Guardian.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/aitken/Index/0,3332,208473,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/aitken/Story/0,2763,208518,00.html
(note link to UBS in Geneva)

[Shalom]

199. Jeb Bush Called FL Congressman Feeney a "LOOSE CANNON"

And he was behind the plan to bypass Florida voters in case the Supreme Scam did not materialize....He was prepared to fix the 2000 election, so don't be surprised if he's still at it:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32928-2004Jun10.html

In 1994, Feeney gained an unexpected statewide platform when gubernatorial candidate Jeb Bush picked him to be his running mate. Lawton Chiles, the incumbent, called Feeney "spooky" and "dangerous" during the campaign, as well as "the David Duke of Florida politics." Former Gov. Claude Kirk dubbed Feeney a "walking mental paraplegic." Even Jeb Bush said he "may be a loose cannon."

Bush and Feeney lost in a close race. But the campaign solidified Feeney's status as one of Florida's rising conservatives. He was elected speaker of the Florida House in 2000, and he entered national consciousness during the post-presidential election mess of that year. After the state's Supreme Court ordered a statewide recount, Feeney led an effort to have the legislature name a new set of electors that would vote for George W. Bush.

[eleny]

210. Has anyone sent this info to Malloy?

[JoMama49]

212. Don't know about Malloy, but

Randi Rhodes is talking about it on her show right now! KPOJ 620 am out of Portland, OR

[Guarionex]

215. CLINT CURTIS' DOG HAS BEEN KILLED - READ!

Everyone, go to http://www.crooksandliars.com

Brad Friedman released a statement there because the Brad Blog is unreachable right now...he just got off the phone with clint curtis (the whistleblower)...clint says his healthy 3-year old German shepard has just been found dead, only hours of submitting the affidavit and publishing the article.

SOMEONE IS OUT TO GET CLINT! If you can enter the BradBlog later, do so.

[rainbow4321]

216. Judiciary Committee meeting question

When I googled that Feeney's name it had him as being on the House Judiciary Committee...is that the committee that is meeting this week? The one where repukes are refusing to attend. Guess this may be one of the reasons they are refusing...they knew where this was headed and who was involved?

[magellan]

224. Whatever their reasons

It's reprehensible that the Republicans on the Judiciary Committee aren't participating. Putting aside the alleged fraud for a moment, there's still more than enough evidence that the election process was, to say the least, problematic for tens of thousands of voters. (And potentially tens of thousands more who were affected but aren't aware of it.) By sitting this meeting out, the Republicans are saying, "We don't give a damn about investigating voting irregularities." It couldn't be more clear if a camera caught DeLay flipping Conyers the bird.

And yes, last I heard the meeting is scheduled to begin Wednesday morning at 10 a.m.

[rainbow4321]

225. Shrub has already flipped us all the bird.....

[momzno1]

234. where did this chimp flipping the bird come from?

I thought it was a fake? Did he really do this?

[rainbow4321]

236. Yup..very real

back when he was gov..he about to do some show and when they were getting him ready and testing the camera, etc...he promptly gave the "camera" the bird. It is very much real...except what you usually see on the the Net is a still shot of it. This here was part of the video, I guess. I did see the actual video somewhere on the Net at one point. As usual, his yes men who where watching him just giggled and excused what he did but it was pretty appalling to watch this "gov" give the bird and his smirk to the camera.

[Last Lemming]

233. Rove strikes again

Since this is probably another Rovian document hoax--I was curious why we suddenly pony up the name of a congressman--Tom Feeny. . .why dump on Tom Feeny?

Not sure but I wonder if this has something to do with it.

By the way, GOP Congressman Tom Feeney is being proven right on his maverick vote against the Medicare package that many now are saying is worse than the way it was and will bankrupt the SS system. I've had a good feeling about him and his objectiveness.

From: http://www.informedvolusian.com/2004/02_04_04%20Missive/issue_3_article_1.htm

n.b. Madsen was targetted (I surmise) after he outed Rove a la "J. E. Hoover"
which see:
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/120503_rove.html

[Last Lemming]

235. Sorry--didn't see the post above

Sounds like Feeney also framed because he has a few principles left.