Innocently, while trying to help the Green Party last week - 271 votes

[NVMojo]

were discovered on "vote cartridges" from the brand new paper trailed Sequoia machines at our Elko County clerk's office in Nevada.

I can't post the link to the story in tonight's local paper but I will tomorrow as soon as it goes up. Someone from the Green Party in Vegas had asked me to see if I could get the precinct totals for this county to help them out with the recount they had initially filed. I sent a written request last Monday for the documentation to the Clerk. On Thursday, while entering the precinct votes into an Excel database ....from some other database (I was intially told), 271 uncounted votes were found on three separate precincts in the main population base of Elko County. Bush gained about 200 of these votes and Kerry gained 55. Just think, if I had not made that public information request for the Green Party that already bailed on their recount effort in Nevada, 271 people in my county's votes would never have been counted!!!

I will never vote in this state again.

Oh, forgot to add that the Clerk had to call Sequoia in California to help them "retrieve" the votes off the cartridges. What the hell does that mean? I'll let you guess.

Tell me lies, tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies ....

Do you think I should request this same thing from every county in Nevada now?

[NVMojo]

1. ok, maybe no one else thinks this is important but I do

these were the brand new HAVA Sequoias with printers the Nevada SOS bragged about....

[Eloriel]

3. Don't be so impatient

Of COURSE it's important. OTOH, it's a no go in NV, isn't it?

Besides (and far more germane), you only allowed a few minutes from post to your own kick for people to find your thread and respond. A little patience.... Some of us are reading other threads for far longer than that.

[NVMojo]

5. sorry but I guess I am still upset about the cancellation of NV's recount

...this find was purely accidental. They have to recertify the vote at the SOS's office now.

And, by the very short period of time that I posted the first post and then posted the second one, Eloriel, that post was second from the bottom, that's why I did this.

[juajen]

11. I'm truly sorry I didn't respond earlier.

There was a Christmas program for my granddaughter, then supper (ham and biscuits) and I am just now getting on the board. I think your find is very important when you consider how they touted Nevada's election as so pure because of these machines and the voter paper trail. I heard on another thread that this was not true, that all of Nevada did not have a paper trail. I believe Kerry won that state, and I would love to see it recounted. Do you think it would do any good?

[NVMojo]

14. juajen, I understand! these posts under the election topic are just moving

fast with info tonight.

You are right about the pure election Dean Heller told everyone we would have. These three machines had printers on them, alot of good it did if the Sequioa people didn't download everything off each cartridge.

Maybe what needs to happen is that every county with these emachines should not be able to say they have their totals done until they have cross checked them with the totals on the print tally to the cartridge tally?

PS, I totally stuffed my face when I got home tonight so fast I almost got sick so I could get on here and post this after I read the paper at five. I have a new puppy who is mauling me for attention and hates my laptop ...and a spouse who is wondering why we never talk about anything about voting anymore ...

[jamboi]

2. Oh yeah. I do too. Just a fire hydrant of info right now. n/t

[Niche]

4. Hi NVMojo...

Yes, request. I know that NV is split in its reps and dems but there are a few weird things there. I have posted this from looking at the numbers across the board - registered and totals - that 100% turn out for rep and 70% turn out for dems. In many counties this happened. Also, have been curious about hearing that 20,000 plus people in clark county signed a legalize marijuana petition and when asked what happened the signatures were lost. Do you know about that? The feedback I'm getting from friends and family there is that they aren't hearing anything about anything (on the news! haha) so they're not sure what to do. My mother is even starting to doubt my reports and emails and has stopped passing anything on. What do we do now? They were pissed off at first now they're just quiet. Anyway, thank you for your work. Keep fighting. :toast:

[NVMojo]

7. Niche, then I guess we have to be vigilantes in NV

I think bigger fraud would be easier to pull in Vegas then on all these rural counties and their new Sequoias with printers. I have been totally disgusted at the State Dems, they did nothing to even reach out and acknowledge the Green Party when they were still trying to get a recount going.

I did hear about that marijuana petition. I had signed it in Reno while in line to see Michael Moore just before the election.

And then there is the issue of why Nevada was charging so much to do a recount for the population base of Nevada. They said they had to bring Sequoia in to help. Just like what here, they had to call Sequoia in California to help them retrieve the 271 uncounted votes on the cartridges last week. What is up with that? Who owns those machines? Sequoia is the only one who can do a recount or retrieve votes? Why bother voting with such a system?

[meganmonkey]

6. Holy sh*t!

And yes, every single damn county!

[NVMojo]

8. I am serious about this.

The public has a right to see the totals at the precinct level. They must not have considered that anyone would bother to ask. The only reason I asked was to help out the Green Party and Help America Count. No one was expecting more votes would be found like that. At least I feel our clerk is honest, she really didn't need to push to download those last few votes once she found them.

[meganmonkey]

9. So am I - my reaction is sincere!

I hope you don't think I was being sarcstic - I know it's hard to tell sometimes.
I think that is a powerful discovery and it should be reported. If you have the ability or knowledge to find out more that I think you should.

[NVMojo]

10. no, I didn't take your comment wrong! I just read that guys post

about the hearts and the heads here. I guess I was acting with too much heart and Eloriel was the head but we are all wanting the same thing, the truth.

I can't really report this until the www.elkodaily.com updates their website with today's local news. The story is quite long and it would easier to link the story to an email report.

The three precincts that had the uncounted votes on them were in our precincts. I keep thinking about how 271 sincere voters took their time out to vote and their votes wouldn't have counted if the Green Party hadn't emailed and asked me to get those totals. I think that is what this is really about.

[Niche]

17. NVMojo, thanks for your post back...

Have you tried contacting George Knapp? He's a newscaster in LV. He has already left me an email about the 6000 votes torn up by Sproul's people. Have you looked over the registered v. turn out votes? I thought Been said the recount wouldn't change the election and tossed it out? But again it's so close. You can contact me at [e-mail]. We'll get something moving there.

[NVMojo]

19. Niche, I will contact you and George shortly. I was also thinking of

contacting Steve Miller, the journalist from AmericanMafia who yelled like a voice in the wilderness 10 years ago when Vegas got the first Sequoias. If nothing else, we need to get the "doubt" out there just like with the Sproul case. Thanks for your help! We need to get rid of these machines or make sure standards to verify the votes are put in place.

[KatieB]

12. Yes - get the data

It may be hard to get later in case anyone is showing a pattern and practice of fraud. Great info on Sequoia

[saracat]

13. Of course this is important, but I can't say I am happy

about the Bush votes! I would have thrown those out! LOL! ( not really. I would have been so mad I probably would have!)

[NVMojo]

15. that's funny, Saracat! That's why I respect the County Clerk, a repub ...

I've known for over 15 years. Nobody would have known about those votes. But she reported them anyways and now the SOS has to recertify the votes at the state level.

[John Q. Citizen]

30. Does recertification affect the legal timeline in Nevada?

In other words, does it then change the amount of time to contest an election?

[NVMojo]

34. omigosh! Good point!!!!

They certified the vote a couple of weeks ago!! They have to redo it now!

[KoKo]

16. I feel for you still working on this....Wish we here knew something you

could do..remember your post on Nevada problems before where we exchanged some posts on a thread.

Will the Cobb campaign catalog this? Even though they dropped the recount? I hope someone can give you a suggestion. I know it drives you crazy seeing 211 uncounted votes and wondering how many more there are.

I'll just give a "kick." Hoping someone can help you out with this.

[NVMojo]

18. if nothing else, maybe I will write a book ...how the votes were

gambled in Nevada!

It really the machines we should all be worried about. They want the entire nations on these beasts in the next couple of years, using Nevada as the model. I just know that if they want to prove how worthless the e-machine system is, they should look at Nevada with a closer eye instead of listening like sheep to the political spin...

Thanks, Koko!

[regularjoe]

20. Once you get the numbers...

Email them to [e-mail] and they will be posted at http://www.rasgroup.com/rasforum
Election Investigation Library.

[kc.ink]

21. that's a rhetorical question right?

AND you said, "271 uncounted votes were found on three separate precincts in the main population base of Elko County."
Meaning ? ? the total of votes found on all 3 precincts = 271 ?
Or 271 on each machine? ?

Please clarify.

[NVMojo]

26. ooops, sorry for keeping you waiting, kc.ink

I have requested a link be put up on the website of the paper to the story.

I think what happened is this: clerk says while inputting information into a data base (excel) for all precincts, they discovered a total of 271 votes that had not been counted when they turned elections results in to the state for certification a few week weeks ago. The total of 271 votes were found to be on 3 seperate machines in Elko precincts (3 0f them) that were located at the local convention center during election. They had to call Sequoia up in Oakland, California to help them get these votes off the cartridges. Makes no sense to me.

[kk897]

22. KICK!

[3 DanO]

23. How can it be that there are any significant uncounted votes?!

In every precinct there is a poll book with the names of each voter that voted in that precinct. And there are voter affidavits signed by the voters. At the end of the day:


The number of names in the poll book

equals

The number of signed voter affidavits

equals

The number of ballots cast in the precinct.


If these numbers don't add up there has been a failure that needs to be investigated before the election is certified.

[NVMojo]

28. then you are on to something fundamentally wrong with this system!

This makes sense. Just think, there could be more mistakes elsewhere if clerks are not making sure numbers jive up before certifying the vote locally and sending it to the state. I remember someone posting here about how the numbers have to be checked by precinct first. Makes sense now.

[newyawker99]

47. Hi 3 DanO!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[KatieB]

24. NV MOJO - A friend of mine-reporter-from Reno would like to cover story

Elko County story made no major papers or wires Tuesday(Dec 7) and is not in the Wednesday morning Reno Gazette-Journal. He wants to speak with you: you can email him at
[e-mail]

(He's a h*llraiser)

[NVMojo]

27. Katie B, thank you! This is great! and the points made here are good

too. Especially about the poll books. I forgot that the Clerk here and the County Commission barely made the deadline which is like 5 days after the election to certify the votes. They said it was because of when the commissiners meeting is held so they held an emergency meeting a week after the election to certify the vote before sending them on to the SOS.

What is weird about it was everyone was so nervous and defensive.

I have a funny feeling the editor of the Free Press was asked to not put the story online to keep it from leaking outside of our county lines. It will cast doubt on Nevada's shining example of Sequoias with printers.

See, this bothers me because, why did it take until I requested those results for the Green Party for them to "find" these votes? What good are poll books and printers if you don't use them?

I will contact the reporter in Reno as soon as I get to work, gotta get out the door right now. We have had alot a snow here!!!

[KatieB]

25. Other Nevada Stories of e-voting machine "issues"

A huge number of Sequoia machines in Las Vegas were of the older variety with no paper trail. See

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/text/2004/jul/12/517159661.html

See also the San Francisco Chronicle archive of a Nevada AP story: "Computer experts are concerned because only 740 of 2,926 machines in Clark County produce paper records of every ballot cast."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/11/04/politics1958EST0134.DTL

[NVMojo]

29. I am glad to see it is getting out!!!

[jsascj]

31. Too bad Kerry didn't get more than Bush.

x(

[NVMojo]

33. i agree but ...this is a repig county, very much so.

if the shoe is on the other foot down in Vegas ...which is a Dem county ...or White Pine ...another traditional Dem County, are there more Kerry votes then Bush votes sitting on their Sequoias, especially the paperless ones in Vegas ...???? The wonderful thing for me about this discovery is haven't trust the process of how our SOS has pushed these machines on us since last year. And now we find they ain't so damn perfect after he blabbed nationwide how smooth the election was. You know he is pushing a bill through congress to force the whole country to use these machines, right?

[Pepper32]

37. Well, the Techs in California made sure of that!

:(

[kitp]

32. story up

Here

[NVMojo]

35. thank you!

I just got an email from them saying it was up this morning. I emailed the editor last night around 6 pm.

I have also contacted KatieB's friend in Reno.

[John Q. Citizen]

39. I just read the Online Free Press story and I notice they

don't mention at all that the missing votes were found as a result of a citizen's (yours) request for information.

I think you should consider a letter to the editor and correct the mis-impression that the lost votes were found because of election office checks and balances, NVMojo.

It would also be an opportunity to question how many other votes are sitting on other machines and to question how this happened in the first place? if the machines are so great, why were the votes lost for 2 months?

[NVMojo]

41. John Q. I did tell the editor that last night when I requested the link

to the story. Good idea about a letter to the editor about what happened.

Thanks!!!

[Pepper32]

38. Thanks n/t

[Pepper32]

36. Yes, request them from every county. Sigh, we need a nationwide REVOTE!

[John Q. Citizen]

40. Kick!

[KatieB]

42. Hey NVMojo - you got News coverage - but no mention of help from Sequoia

http://www.elkodaily.com/articles/2004/12/08/news/local/news1.prt http://www.elkodaily.com/articles/2004/12/08/news/local/news1.txt

Missing votes found in machines

By DAVE WOODSON, Free Press Staff Writer

ELKO - Elko County Clerk Win Smith said 271 votes in November's general election were not counted because of a "computer glitch" with the new touch-screen machine system.

Smith said three result cards from machines used at the Elko Convention Center, the voting location for the City of Elko, were found to have had problems.

However, she said those votes have since been recovered from the computer cards and added to the final totals.

"The good thing is that they found it," Elko County Manager Rob Stokes said.

Smith said the recovered votes did not impact any election results.

"No votes were lost," she said. "No races were changed."

Smith said the missing votes were discovered late Thursday when county employees inputting voter history into the system discovered that the number of voters and the number of votes did not match.

"We found out all the votes were not counted," she said.

Smith said she contacted Sequoia Voting Systems Inc., the Oakland, Calif.-based hardware and software firm that provided the touch-screen system, and the company provided assistance in finding and correcting the problem.

"We walked it through," she said. "We easily got the votes out of those cartridges."

Smith said the ability to quickly correct the problem was a positive aspect of the new machines, which were used for the first time this year.

"It proves that this system was very reliable," she said.

Smith said the Nevada Secretary of State's office has been notified. She also said an amended vote canvass would have to submitted.

Stokes said the county board will meet in special session at 1 p.m. Thursday at the county courthouse to approve the amended canvass results. He said those results would then be sent to the Nevada Secretary of State so statewide totals also can be amended.

In only two races did the losing candidate pick up more votes than the winning candidate, but it was not enough to alter the outcome of the balloting.

In the contest for Elko County School Board of Trustees District 4, Gordon Fobes added 129 votes to Bill Wilkerson's 58 additional votes.

Despite Fobes cutting into Wilkerson's margin, Wilkerson still won the seat with 7,399 votes to Fobes' 5,981 votes.

In the Elko Civic Auditorium race for Seat C, winner Dave Huckaby added 122 votes while John Collett collected 123 votes. Huckaby still won the seat by a 6,081 to 5,225 margin.

With the amended results, President George W. Bush's winning margin in Elko climbed by .5 percent to 77.98 when he picked up an additional 204 votes while Democratic challenger John Kerry added 55 votes to his total. Bush carried Elko County with 12,142 votes over Kerry's 3,106.

Incumbent Democratic U.S. Sen. Harry Reid picked up 107 additional votes but Republican Richard Ziser added 135 votes.

Ziser continued to carry the county with 8,047 votes in his losing bid to unseat Reid, who polled 6,191 votes.

GOP Rep. Jim Gibbons gained 199 votes in his near landslide win over Democrat Angie Cochran, who added 42 votes, with the final total showing Gibbons with 12,008 to Cochran's 2,324.

State Sen. Dean Rhoads, R-Tuscarora, mainted his lead over Independent American Party candidate Thomas Jefferson, when Rhoads added 198 votes to Jefferson's 68 votes.

Rhoads' winning margin was 11,794 to Jefferson's 3,060.

State Assemblyman John Carpenter, R-Elko, who ran unopposed, upped his ballot total by 206 votes to 12,030.

Also running unopposed was Elko County Commissioner Democrat Mike Nannini for his fourth term from District 1, who picked up an additional 215 votes to bring his total to 11,536.

Incumbent Republican John Ellison in District 3 added 191 votes while his challenger, IAP candidate Dorothy Jefferson, added 72 votes that gave Ellison a margin of 11,313 to Jefferson's 3,413 ballots.

Another incumbent Republican, Warren Russell, in District 5, collected an additional 176 votes while his challenger IAP's Michael Smith added 80 votes for a final tally of Russell with 10,347 votes to Smith's 4,305 votes.

In the Elko County School Board of Trustees race in District 3, winner Annette Kerr picked up 157 votes while Jerry Williams added 50 votes to make the final total Kerr with 7,651 to Williams' 6,045.

Incumbent District 7 school board member Lou Basanez added 160 votes while her challenger Mary Polish picked up 97 votes. Basanez defeated Polish by a 7,653 to 5,863 margin.

[John Q. Citizen]

43. Kick!

[texpatriot2004]

44. Good job NVMojo I bet those voters would thank you.

Even though the 200 didn't go to my candidate, if the shoe were on the other foot, and I was one of the 200 I sure would be glad it was counted. I am not convinced that they were all legitimately for B* but I think you are to be commended for uncovering this error. I wonder how many more there are? I really was sad to hear they would not be pursuing NV. Anyway, I do think this is important. Kudos to you my friend.

[senegal1]

45. verrrry interesting -- are you sure that those are real votes?

Not some sort of ghost votes put there by the company or someone? Sort of odd that they show up now but no one noticed them missing if there are poll books ect. Maybe I didn't understand the posts above???

[geo]

46. Did you call/email the greens to let them know?

Is there still anything that they or anyone else can do?? -G