C-Span 1 on Now! Forum on Ohio Vote! Thread 2

[proud patriot]

please continue here :hi:

thread 1 here :
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=127448

[NJ_Lib]

1. Thanks for the link...

I had the TV BLARING in the other room so I could hear it in my office... This is so much better...!

Thanks! :hug:

[ReneB]

3. is cspan a big network? (i am not from the USA).. nt

[CornField]

7. CSPAN isn't really a network like CNN

It is a live feed of meetings, Congress, committees, etc. No advertising -- people supported -- all government, all the time.

[ReneB]

12. so its a livestream broadcast "only" ?

[proud patriot]

17. It also takes calls

and has a show called Washington Journal
which usually has a guest .

[AmyCrat]

18. It's a TV channel similar to PBS

it's not insanely popular like CNN, it's more like PBS or the NASA Channel. No advertising, coverage of congress is session (which is often like watching paint dry), special forums, hearings, etc.

[buzzard]

26. Amy did hearings llike this take place in 2000?

[tavalon]

27. Nope, cable channel

Like PBS or the History channel or a music channel. They might well call it the Government Channel.

[ReneB]

43. thanks :) nt

[Pirate Smile]

53. The cable channels have to pay a certain amount to create and maintain

C-span (C-span 2 and C-span 3). It is a public service. C-span normally covers what occurs in the House of Representatives, C-span 2 covers the Senate and they show other public events, news conferences, forums, panels, rallies, etc.

They cover a lot of Presidential speeches, events, etc.

[electropop]

162. Saw Brian Lamb in my building yesterday

Well, I saw him on TV, but he was in my building at the time. :-) Anyway, the deal is, that any cable/satellite company can carry C-span for a fee of $0.05 per cable customer per month. He says that provides plenty of funding. I agree, it's enough money to do a really great and unique job. Brian Lamb's network is the only impartial and serious news available in America.

[zann725]

15. ...and it's the REAL "No Spin Zone"!

n/t

[CornField]

2. Jesse Jackson Sr.

Is knocking it out of the park... state's rights are not fixable.

I do not wish to only vent and not have Congress act. :) Amen to that!

[Pithy Cherub]

4. Reverend Jackson is being eloquent beyond measure!

He seemed as if he had tears in his eyes as he spoke about the right to vote and MLK's 1964 Nobel Prize. Go Jesse!

[zann725]

21. Jesse Jackson's son did an incredible job too!

He certainly has his father's gift for public speaking! Why has no one noticed him before? He certainly parallels Barak Obama.

[skids]

214. He had the best line of the whole session.

Too bad I wasn't fast enough to write it down.

Something like, we live in a country where we have a railroad system from coast to coast, a road system that uses all the same traffic signals, and air traffic control system that will get you across the country in 5 hours, and we can't get an election right?

He was much more eloquant than that though.

[proud patriot]

5. I'm bummed about the time constraint

but at least this is a start ...

[Stand and Fight]

6. Go Jesse go go!!!

"It's a subtle form of disrespect to have this conference, but have Congress do nothing. This can't be just a venting session."
"This election is not over yet."
"We need some action now!"
"We need Congress in Ohio now!"
"When Mr. Kerry left he took immediate scurtiny with him. He continues to say that it's over. It's not over."
"Children dying in Iraq. This ain't right."
"Why do we do so well in football, basketball, crack golf?"
"We can't have the poor people getting poorer machines. Rich people getting rich machines."
"We need the Ukraine in Ohio. People need to express themselves in the street."


Crying, whoa... I love this guy!

[Amaya]

8. That was right on

thank you, Jesse

[Pepper32]

11. Awww... I LOVE him too!

Go Jesse, keep kicking ass! :D

[HEAVYHEART]

47. WOW! GO JESSE!!!

[zann725]

9. ...visions of Watergate dance in my head!

I am so proud and excited!
Let the recount (and Inauguration of President Kerry begin)! :kick:

[SueZhope]

10. does any one know

How long this is?

I thought they were stopping on c-span after 2 hours .
I don't want to miss any of it

Thanks

[pbartch]

13. jesse jackson SPEAKING AGAIN......ABOUT 9:10 AM pacific time

he was wonderful. HE SAID CONGRESS NEEDS TO GET TO OHIO NOW!

DON'T PATRONIZE US...HE SAID!!

Jesse Jackson Jr. was great too. My respect for Jesse has gone up about 125%

[pbartch]

33. rep jesse jackson jr he said to DELAY THE SEATING OF THE ELECTORS???

and CONERS SAID.............WE WILL NOW.

are they gonna DELAY bringing the Repuke electors so they can't vote for the CHEATER BUSH in again?

[regularjoe]

14. Poor Conyers. He is doing a great job but people have so many different

ideas. I hope they can put aside their personal wants for the good of the forum and the movement in general.

regularjoe

[crispini]

16. It's funny how much this reminds me of local political meetings. n/t

[woodsprite]

19. I may have missed it

Work interrupted my listening to CSPAN. Did anyone mention about the fact that ballots being a different order in different precincts in Ohio?
Sorry, not the ballots, but the candidates on the ballots?

[Twist_U_Up]

20. NY IS IN DA HIZZZOUSE YEA BIOTCH !!!!!!

lol we goin after the machines

[Pepper32]

38. Damn right! We want to audit the machines.

And then destroy them...lol :D

[Pirate Smile]

22. I asked this at the end of the other thread but why does this have to

end so quickly? Are they just trying to get it in during the time frame C-span is covering it? They have all these people there, are they actually not going to go longer today?

What is the deal?

[regularjoe]

28. Good question. n/t

[mirrera]

23. tabulaters!!!

Someone brought up that regardless of the differing machines in Ohio, they ALL end up in tabulaters, and that is where we have to look!!!

[pbartch]

45. SUSAN TRUITT SAID LOOK AT THE TABULATORS

she said you can see the discrepancies in the vote by looking / investigating the tabulators assigned to the voting machines

[roseBudd]

174. I noticed she specifically mentioned Triad Governmental Systems

large urban counties in OH used ES&S as the tabulators for the punch card ballots. Suburban counties used Triad. So much effort has been aimed at voting systems with no paper trail that I fear not enough attention has been paid to the tabulators of the punch card ballot machines in OH.

Found a question on a forum from a Triad employee in Sept. 2004:
http://www.foxite.com/archives/0000052074.htm

Subject: Number of bytes in an upper level directory? From: Cheryl Bellucci
Category: General Xenia, United States
Version: Visual FoxPro 6 Date: September 21, 2004

I have the need to know how many bytes are in a directory. This directory may include several subdirectories. Right now, I use ADIR() to traverse the different directories, adding the bytes in the files as I find them. This works, but as the directory includes more and more directories, it is taking noticeable time to determine the number of bytes.

Is there a system call or API call that I can use to get the number of bytes from the upper level directory?

Many thanks!
Cheryl A Bellucci
TRIAD GOVERNMENTAL SYSTEMS, INC


This article references problems with Triad card readers:
http://www.fairvote.org/righttovote/hargrove4.htm

"Morgan said the card reader easily jams under humid conditions or when ballots are printed on different thicknesses of cardboard or are dyed different colors. On June 8, he regularly had to rerun the Democratic primary ballots printed on blue cardboard.

"Blues are usually the difficult ones," Morgan said. "I always expect there will be some problems with the cards. Sometimes they will curl up in the box."

[tridim]

24. "Put 'em in jail!"

From the audience. YES!

[CornField]

30. Heard that and yelled back! LOL!

[Stand and Fight]

25. I want to hear more about action NOW.

This Constitution amendment crap is bunk if nothing is done right NOW about this election. Period.

[Stand and Fight]

29. Go Jesse Jr. Go!!!

Brought up representatives objecting to the proceeding of the electors if the recount is not completed in time enough. YEAH! Conyers said, "No, but we will now!"

[Zan_of_Texas]

96. Yes. Constitutional amendment does not do JACK SH*T now

I think it's baloney -- we need to stop this election in its tracks and recount.

[zann725]

129. I second that Motion! And stop the Electoral Vote NOW!

n/t :kick:

[mirrera]

31. Yes Object to the electors!...n/t

[CornField]

37. Yes!

Time to start lobbying our Senators -- all of them. Let me make this clear: We can not place all our eggs in Sen. Kerry and Sen. Edwards baskets again.

[Pepper32]

46. Totally agree! n/t

[Patsy Stone]

32. Sheila Jackson Lee --- ROCKS!!! n/t

[proud patriot]

34. I love Sheila Jackson Lee Rocks IMHO

:D

[KoKo]

220. Kick....

[Stand and Fight]

35. Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee

"We should have a national holiday for voting. No one should have to lose their job to cast their vote."

[Im with Rosey]

56. PASSION!

Passion about the issue is what has been missing! I saw that passion not only in JJ and JJjr but I want ARNEBECK on my side all the time! I wish I had counted how many times he said "FRAUD and/or FRAUDULENT" He was inspirational!

[GreenPartyVoter]

You got it, Sheila!

-------------------------------------
Fight the fraud; Fix the system!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/

[joeunderdog]

139. Jeff Fisher is on as a questioner.

Saying he went to FBI.

Said he knows how it was done in 2k and 04. Looks a likttle shakey.


Was granted a meeting with a Congressman from the meeting.

[life_long_dem]

186. I would be shaking too, if I had just pissed off the BFEE. Very brave.

[proud patriot]

36. My fingers crossed that Will Pitt gets to ask a question

:D

[SueZhope]

39. thinking the same thing.....n/t

[tridim]

40. C'mon WIll, get up there and ask a question!

I see he's still sitting down.

[proud patriot]

41. the first question is great

"why don't we use the remedy in the U.S. Contitution?"

[carolinalady]

44. Yes they need to research that. I think they were caught with

their pants down on that one.

[trudyco]

52. I heard that on DU - I bet its a DU'er! nt

[Gman]

42. Why do I feel that, once again, the Black congressional caucus

is carrying the ball on this issue as they did in 2000? I'm very thankful for Conyers et al efforts. But why do I feel they will be left out on a limb again? I hope not this time.

[crispini]

49. IMO the Black Congressional Caucus

are the REAL Democrats here! Where is the rest of our Democratic leadership? Spineless zeros. :grr:

I'm going to pull a Randi Rhodes and declare myself black. Go Black Congressional Caucus!

[Gman]

70. My wife and I declared ourselves "Black" long ago!

We figure we were probably Black in previous lives! :-) We would rather associate with Blacks than a whole lot of white people we know!

[BamaBecky]

213. Ditto

[mirrera]

48. HELP

Anyone know how I can hear the rest of the hearing??? Pacifica is now doing their open phone line, and C-Span has now stopped. Anywhere else? I am on line, no cable.

[carolinalady]

51. c span still on here in NC

[ohio_liberal]

61. Emergency Test Thingie Here

Thanks a lot, you Comcast bastages ;)

[crispini]

54. I think it's gone...

I dunno any alternative sources either. Have to catch up via Will Pitt's blog...

[al bupp]

58. c-span.org

[jdog]

60. I'm listening here

http://www.cspan.org/watch/cspan_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS

[regularjoe]

101. It works! Even though it says they are broadcasting something else n/t

[Stand and Fight]

62. Go to this website to watch:

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan_wm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS

[mirrera]

68. Thanks evreyone, got it!...n/t

[DTinAZ]

or this one...seems to be a lot better

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS

I tried both streams, and the RealAudio was much, much better than the Windows one...big surprise...

[Pepper32]

64. I'm watching from the website.

:D

[Zan_of_Texas]

103. C-span still on -- online. www.cspan.org

[Sideways]

133. Maria I Heard You On Pacifica!!!

I read your post this morning that talked about McChesney and I complimented that post. So I read your profile and I saw you are in Maine and then you came on Pacifica. Good Job! Brave DUer!!!

[jdog]

50. YES get it on the record for all of history

that the repugs are trying to throw away our democracy!

[Stand and Fight]

55. Question about Republican attendance at informal hearing.

"We invited every single Republican member of the House committee to attend this hearing as well." Rep. John Conyers

"What was the response, Congressman Conyers?" Rep. Mel Watt

"Well, it was entirely in the negative sir." Rep. John Conyers

[SueZhope]

67. in Republican land

everything is going just fine..
Who needs to fix the system that helps steal the votes for them.

[Patsy Stone]

100. I'll bet

that every TV in every Repub office is tuned to C-SPAN.

[pbartch]

57. THEY ARE MAKING IT VERY CLEAR THAT THE REPUBLICANS

refused to participate in todays hearing.

Rep Mel Watt, North Carolina stated that the Repukes refused to convene. He said they need a FORMAL HEARING. It's a formal session but they need THE OFFICIAL HEARING.......ASSISTANCE IN MOBILIZING THE WHOLE OF CONGRESS.

[CornField]

66. Type that again... I'm not understanding.

Do they need us to pressure our Congressmen so they can get enough for a quorum or something? In short, what needs to be done?

[MarkusQ]

191. Call on your congress critters...

...for full and complete investigation. Especially the Republicans. We need to get the word out that this is a non-partisan issue.

--MarkusQ

[proud patriot]

202. I think we should be calling our Senators as well

preparing them and let them know we have their back .

[MarkusQ]

215. Congress = Senate + House of Representatives (n/t)

[Twist_U_Up]

59. I look forward to Olbermans biased info tonite hehehee n/t

[carolinalady]

63. Executive Branch must authorize criminal investigations--

may not be able to do in this committee--our job is to expose significant anomalies--Bobby Scott

[trudyco]

Good start, lousy end Bobby

They better do more than expose stuff. Conduct their own "exit" polls. Canvass neighborhoods. I hope they see beyond the congressional box.

Can we prosecute Blackwell for hate crimes? He seemed to target minorities and make them go through dehydration and standing for extraoridnary time in unairconditioned rooms - very similar to some of our torture techniques on "combantants".

Can a minority be prosecuted for hate crimes against minorities?

Man I want him behind bars. Let him be the first.

trudyco

[me b zola]

198. ...prosecute Blackwell for hate crimes...

I have been wondering the same thing. Just the thought makes me feel warm all over:-)

[btyarbro]

65. Write your Representives: Especially the Republicans!

As Conyers and Watt just discussed, this panel needs the cooperation of the Republican Chairman to get this before the House.

Representatives work for the people:

Come on, people. Contact them and demand redress for these issues.

[jdog]

69. I just emailed all mine. Go here

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/home/ if you want to make it easy on yourself.

[keepthemhonest]

201. here catcatcat posted this last night on another thread

for all of us to call the repukes on the judiciary committee and tell them to get with it. I called all but six did not have voice mail
CHAIRMAN: MR. F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, JR. (WISCONSIN)
[e-mail]
Telephone: [phone]


Republican Members
------------------

Mr. Hyde (Illinois)
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Mr. Coble (North Carolina)
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Mr. Smith (Texas)
[phone]

Mr. Gallegly (California)
2427 Rayburn HOB
Washington, DC 20515-0523
[phone]
FAX: [phone]

2829 Townsgate Road, Suite 315
Thousand Oaks, CA 91361-3018
[phone]
Toll Free: [phone]
FAX: [phone]

485 Alisal Road, Suite G-1A
Solvang, CA 93463
[phone]
FAX: [phone]

For e-mail, Congressman Gallegly uses
Write Your Representative ( http://www.house.gov/writerep / ).

Mr. Goodlatte (Virginia)
[phone]
[phone] fax

Mr. Chabot (Ohio)
[phone]
[phone] (fax)
My office utilizes the Write Your Representative
email system ... ( http://www.house.gov/writerep / ).

Mr. Jenkins (Tennessee)
Phone No. [phone]
Fax. [phone]
Email: http://www.house.gov/writerep /

Mr. Cannon (Utah)
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]

Mr. Bachus (Alabama)
202 225-4921 phone
202 225-2082 fax
Email: http://www.house.gov/writerep /

Mr. Hostettler (Indiana)
TEL: [phone]
FAX: [phone]
Email- [e-mail]

Mr. Green (Wisconsin)
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
[e-mail]

Mr. Keller (Florida)
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Email: http://www.house.gov/writerep /

Ms. Hart (Pennsylvania)
Ph. 202-225-2565
Fx. 202-226-2274

Mr. Flake (Arizona)
[phone] - phone
[phone] - fax
[e-mail]

Mr. Pence (Indiana)
202) 225-3021 office
[phone] fax

Mr. Forbes (Virginia)
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Email: http://www.house.gov/writerep /

Mr. King (Iowa)
[phone]
Fax: [phone]
Email: http://www.house.gov/writerep /

Mr. Carter (Texas)
[phone]
Email: http://www.house.gov/writerep /

Mr. Feeney (Florida)
phone [phone]
fax [phone]
Email: http://www.house.gov/writerep /

Mrs. Blackburn (Tennessee)
202-225-2811
202-225-3004 fax
Email: http://www.house.gov/writerep /


note: the frowns next to Feeney's info weren't intentional, i
just cut and paste most of these entries -- it's kind of funny,
though

[proud patriot]

71. I see Will Pitt's Hair ...LOL ..No That's not him ..Sorry ..Shoot

[Generic Other]

212. WILL PITT is right behind Arnebeck!

I'm pretty sure. He's scribbling into his blackberry! LOL

[BrainRants]

72. Guess what will make the news?

Dumb person!

edit: emotional slur.

[buzzard]

75. Who was she.

[Stand and Fight]

77. See #73

[DemonFighterLives]

166. She looked like the church lady

I don't know what she was blabbering about, but was reading on and on. Said she had a couple paragraphs left and someone near her said she had 7 paragraphs.

[Pepper32]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. n/t

[Stand and Fight]

73. Sheesh...

What a bitch this lady is! Sit the fuck down Ms. Tubbs Jones!

[BrainRants]

76. Food for FOX!

Somebody smack her!

[Stand and Fight]

81. LOL`

I'd step forward for that... What a waste of time this lady was!

[quiet.american]

78. What happened?

Missed it!

[proud patriot]

79. Good Grief

:shrug: too bad she , felt adversarial .

[Stand and Fight]

83. Diplomatic word that...

"Adversarial"! She was being a mega-bitch. Almost makes me wonder if she's a FReeper! LOL

[carolinalady]

93. Narcissist -- I think. n/t

[freeplessinseattle]

80. yaeh, what was that bout? I had to be inn the bathroom just then!?

[carolinalady]

86. don't worry you'll see it on MSM

[Pepper32]

84. You know...

she pissed me off...

someone needs to kick her out lol

[quiet.american]

89. WHAT HAPPENED? Anyone!

[quiet.american]

108. Guess I have to catch the re-run! :)

[al bupp]

168. Questioner Refused to End her Statement

She wanted to read an entire, multi-paragraph question/statement into the record. Mr Conyers, feeling the constraints of time, offered to have it placed into the record w/o explicit reading (a common congressional practice). The woman made an issue of that, insisting on reading it aloud. Ultimately she relented after much wasted time. IMHO, if she was more familiar w/ the ways of congress, she'd have immediately agreed to it being placed in the record after the fact.

[quiet.american]

219. Thanks for filling me in, kind soul. n/t

[noclonyofthechimp]

216. too funny! I was yelling similar things over at my neighbors

[carolinalady]

74. all hearing will be posted on website n/t

[nashville_brook]

82. why wouldn't he let the NJ lady read her thing?

if i were behind her in line i would have ceded my time to her.

[Connie_Corleone]

88. It was taking up too much time.

It's being put in the record anyway. Aren't they supposed to be asking questions anyway?

[proud patriot]

92. I'm kinda of bummed with the time constraint

but all are having to sacrafice because of it .

[selmo7]

90. because as he said

he got the jist of it. and that was enuf -

Conyers is responsible for controlling the forum and this woman ARGUED with him? She showed ZERO respect for him (and others) and deserved to get the cane.

[nashville_brook]

99. yeah, but -- i didn't get to know what she was going to say

and this hearing *feels* like the first and maybe the only time "we the people" get to speak after being lied to for so long.

i guess it's just my sense of theater on decorum that makes me uncomfortable with people in power shutting down their constituents' concerns.

i mean, the hearing has zero power anyway

[selmo7]

130. I understand. What she was proposing

is a request to members of Congress that they sign her organization's Statement of Intent affirming their intention to guarantee every citizen's right to vote. (there is a petition going around on the net for this.)

I'm sorry I can't find a link to this petition just now, but I recall at some recent time, I received the petition.

Her presentation imo would have been more effective if she had presented her request and then read a highlight or two from the "intent statement" rather than insisting that she read the whole thing.

[Stand and Fight]

91. Sigh...

I'm sure that you would have felt much more passionate if you'd actually been in line behind her. He set out the rules before she began squawking. What's so hard about that! I'd not have ceded any time -- she wanted to have them agree to something before thoroughly reading and researching it. What's up with these people not understanding to introduce themselves and whom they represent and then asking their question? Seems freaking simple enough to me. They're wasting time... Now they won't be able to take anymore questions soon... Fricking FReeper dumb bastards.

[Connie_Corleone]

94. And now there's no more time for questions.

[Pepper32]

102. Thanks to this stupid woman... n/t

[molly]

197. I watched the entire thing - my requests for anyone

representing us DEMS - 1.) abide by the rules - other people have a voice and there are time restraints 2.) take a bath before appearing on national TV 3.)comb your hair 4.) don't look like you just crawled out of the neighborhood dumpster 5.) don't drink or TAKE DRUGS 6.) don't be so f'n selfish that you think your opinion is more important than anyone else's standing in line behind you

I was embarrassed by most of the questioners - they gave the pugs amunition.

BUT - wasn't it great to have this on C-Span! I trust that the panel will make great big waves! HOPE is on the way !

[BlueOhio]

85. Ugh.

What did they do, pick the least elequent members of the tin foil hat club to do this???

[Stand and Fight]

109. Sheesh....

It seems like they are picking flakes to ask questions. Do they not understand the purpose of this forum? This is screwing us over royally. Thank God, I'm not there -- I don't think I could be as congenial as Conyers.

[proud patriot]

87. Shoot Will is not in line ..He's working still ..live blog and all

:shrug:

[Stand and Fight]

98. Dang... I was hoping to see him in action.

And put a picture to the name. What's with these people making statements? Don't they understand QUESTIONS are to be submitted?

[Connie_Corleone]

105. I guess not.

Not following directions is one of my pet peeves. Ask the question and don't give a speech, please!

[Stephanie]

95. Lynn Landes

Saying why have voting MACHINES at all?

[proud patriot]

97. Great comment "We need to talk about the No Machine issue"

gets a pat on the shoulder of ecouragement for
bringing it up.

[Pepper32]

107. Yes. DESTROY the machines. n/t

[Stand and Fight]

115. Relying on paper is not wholly reliable.

We need to have an assigned voter ID number, just like a social security number, that we carry for life. Once you vote, it goes....

Ask me later. I have a comprehensive plan for more transparent and responsible elections.

[Pepper32]

136. I see where you're going...

Good idea, so far.

However, I like the way Canada does it and they seem to have no problems.

[Fla Dem]

172. Enlighten me. What's wrong with optical scan?

Since I moved to Florida 5 years ago, I have voted on optical scan. When you enter the booth, you have a paper ballot. You use a black marker to indicate your vote. The ballot is then optically scanned.

It seems to me it provides the same benefits of straight paper voting. You have a full paper ballot, you manually indicate your vote, there is a paper trail. The only difference is the votes are tabulated by machine, rather than a hand count. I totally disagree with touchscreen, but don't have a problem with o/s. Comments?

[bunny planet]

188. With optical scans, the central tabulator is suspect. They are all

counted on a central tabulator which can be easily hacked from what I understand.

[bowens43]

218. You yourself gave mentioned why optical scans can't be trusted

They are counted by machine. The numbers are rolled up to the tabulators. There is virtually NO difference between the way touch screen and optical scan machines report the vote.

[Fla Dem]

222. But you still have paper ballots to verify the totals. Even punch

cards are tallied by machine. I realize that then each precinct reads the results and communicates to the election headquarters as opposed to a digital transfer of results, I guess to a central tabulator. But what's to prevent someone from reporting the incorrect information manually from each precinct?

[Stand and Fight]

104. Uggghhhh....

These people are killing me. Do they not understand the issue of TIME?
Ask your question and sit the fuck down!

[Darknyte7]

106. Agreed... n/t

[carolinalady]

111. I think that 15 state issue regarding no mandate of electoral

votes is interesting--Anyone know anything about it?

[Pirate Smile]

Yes, it is driving me nuts. I have even turned the channel a couple of

times.

I had hoped they would spend more time simply putting out the problems most people are not even aware of yet.

They rushed the panelists and I would like to hear more from them.

[CornField]

112. I think they do... BUT

These people -- at least many of them -- have been upset about voting fraud since 2000 (if not prior). They have been beating their heads against brick walls for four years. Finally... *FINALLY*... they have a chance to speak.

To be honest, I wouldn't want to shut up either.

[regularjoe]

120. Yep, Poor Conyers. No wonder his voice sounds so resigned.

Has to deal with all kinds of tangents.

regularjoe

[Stephanie]

110. Who ARE these people?

Did they screen the questioners at all?

[quiet.american]

113. They are really annoying....

...BUT, I guess this is what democracy looks like! :)

[ihelpu2see]

118. Has anyone mentioned any answers from Blackwell

on the memo that he was sent... Regarding the 34 items

[crispini]

123. Blackwell hasn't replied, I think. n/t

[Stand and Fight]

128. You're right.

The bastard Co-Chair of the Bush Re-Election in Ohio did not. Fucker.

[carolinalady]

131. Yes. Conyers stated for the record that Blackwell has not replied

to any of the issues sent to him.

[carolinalady]

137. Fisher on now being a little disrespectful to Conyers IMO

went to FBI they are investigating Will have meeting with staff.

[Pepper32]

167. Blackwell is an arrogant bastard. Of course he hasn't replied.

He needs more pressure put on him. However, I would settle for him being thrown in jail.

Get out of the way Blackwell x(

[life_long_dem]

190. Yeah, put him in prison. The next election his vote won't count either.

[Pepper32]

121. True

:D

[crispini]

117. They're the ones who show up.

And so they get to talk.

That's the way it works everywhere. Those who are willing to put their asses in the chairs for the meetings... get to say their two bits.

Edit: As occured last night at a local level in my town. Wow, SSDD. :D

[quiet.american]

127. Yep! And kudos to them!

[crispini]

114. "This Bush administration is run by fucking Nazis"

Wow.

Call for election to NOT be certified by the Congress.

Yeah.

[woodsprite]

116. Oh My GOODNESS

That woman who just spoke (just happened to be in the neighborhood visiting her son) was SO ELOQUENT! I just wanted to give her a huge hug! She essentially said that the government asks for our taxes, our sons and daughters to give their lives to service in the war, but what do we get. We don't even get the right to have our votes counted and have representation.

Great Lady!!!

[Stand and Fight]

125. Right on!

She was awesome!

[crispini]

119. This veteran dude contacted the FBI.

GO HIM!

[Stand and Fight]

122. Wow...

John Conyers knew who Popich was! Seems like he actually pays attention not only to the issue but to the people behind the issue. Popich is making some good comments on the FBI not following up on his issue of voter fraud. Conyers assured that he would contact the FBI on his behalf. Jolly good man!

[Stephanie]

126. Do you have more info on Popich?

Who is he? That is not part of the Madsen thing, is it?

[Stand and Fight]

132. Sorry Steph...

I don't know. I just garnied his name from the broadcast. Maybe he is, maybe he ain't. We should conduct a google search. I don't even know if that is how it is spelled. Could be Popich, could be Popitch. Could be Popbitch... LOL

[Stephanie]

124. Wow - who was that guy? Trying to contact FBI.

Oh great, now a LaRouchie.

[crispini]

134. JEFF FISHER IS THERE!!!!!

Conyers asking for copies of all info that Jeff Fisher has. Fisher is saying, Ask the FBI. Fisher saying he's put all of his info online except for the name of informant.

Conyers guaranteeing him a meeting with a staff lawyer on the committee.

Fisher is being kind of a dick. Won't STFU.

FISHER --- SHUT UP! Jeez. Conyers just guaranteed you a meeting!

[Darknyte7]

138. Fisher needs to relax...

Conyers is trying to help him.

[MoonRiver]

142. WOW!!!!

My God, this hearing is starting to restore my faith!!!! Jeff is the BEST!!!!!!!

:wow:

[al bupp]

144. Could his pupils have been any more dialated?

Adrenaline's hell of a drug!

[KoKo]

157. He freaked me out! He looks like he's on something...Not credible and

he was an Embarassment! Sheesh...I'm sorry I even read his stuff that was posted here. :scared:

[al bupp]

175. Unfortunately, I have to Agree

His whole demeanor fairly shouted "I need medication!"

Here's hoping he learns to do some deep breathing before his next public speach.

[Carl Brennan]

179. He looks like somebody who has been traumatized. He

is paranoid as hell. Has lost alot of credibility with me, but he could have been doped, who knows. The heck with his manners let's look at the facts.

[rockedthevoteinMA]

187. Second that Carl ! n/t

[Stand and Fight]

145. Oh God...

This guy does not lend us very much credibility...
:wtf:

[Carl Brennan]

221. What is weird is that he seems earnest enough. But he doesn't trust

"anybody". I think Conyers handled him well. Fisher needs to stick to the facts and held to the facts.

Stress can really fuck up yer brain. It's sad really.

[Stand and Fight]

Remember that AOL commercial?

I wish that Conyers would grant all of DU a meeting like that... 60,000 strong!

[budkin]

135. OMG Jeff Fisher!!! n/t

[proud patriot]

141. Oh Dear !

:wow:

[Stand and Fight]

150. That scream of agony...

is about the half of it. That was awful!!

[Stand and Fight]

140. Jeff Fisher... Ugh...

This guy is a nut!!! Now we are going to look like tin-foil hatters... Sit down and shut up... He's got valid points, but now he is just being absurd.

[Pepper32]

149. I know, what's with all the damn misdirected hostility? n/t

[regularjoe]

143. Sit down Fisher! Good Gravy! n/t

[woodsprite]

153. I know it's a passionate subject

but I think it would hold up better under Republican scrutiny if the people that went off on tangents had held it in better and showed some respect for Conyer's authority. Geesh! He's trying to help them, not hinder them.

[Straight Shooter]

146. Jeff Fisher is not doing himself any favors

He's interrupting Conyers and not presenting himself very well. He seems a little spacey. Not responding to a direct request by Conyers, doesn't seem to have listened to a legitimate request by Conyers for info, turns it into a diatribe against the FBI.

Why couldn't he have shown up in a suit and tie.

He isn't abiding by protocol. This is disgraceful.

Frank: "You're yelling at your friend."
__________________________

Oh, Lord, Mr. Fisher, get yourself some media training, please.

[Pepper32]

152. Agreed n/t

[Stand and Fight]

154. You've got that right Straight Shooter!

His testimony is going to come back to bite us in the ass... They should have had to sign sanity oaths upon entering... LOL

[SueZhope]

155. That was very creepy

he shoot himself in the foot

Fisher is not good for the message even if he has one
Thats who will see on MSM tonight

[Matariki]

164. wow. maybe Jeff Fisher's been drugged.

just kidding. nothing like shouting "i'm not a conspiracy theorist" to boost your credibility.

[ElementaryPenguin]

195. I think Fisher wants to blurt it all out - and is sick of being stonewalle

By the press - and evidently even Conyers' committee. He is acting a bit deranged - but Lord knows the kind of pressure and threats this guy has been under from the BFEE! His undoubtedly paranoid that he'll be suicided before he can tell the entire public. These brave souls need protection - and fast!

[troubleinwinter]

210. Or at LEAST combed his hair??!!!

[BlueOhio]

147. omg freepers are gonna have a field day with that... n/t

[BrainRants]

161. No shit!

Gees, we had to save the nutjobs unitl the end, nothing like leaving a bad taste in your mouth.

Horray for Jesse Jr, I haven't seen much of him but I like what I see!

[proud patriot]

148. c-span T.V. just left the hearing

[Kurovski]

151. It's too bad C-Span didn't take

phone calls afterword.

[weeve]

156. Byrd on C-Span 2 now

Awesome coverage of the Conyers hearing . Over 3 hrs. worth. E-mail C-Span for the lengthy coverage ... and ask for future coverage on this issue. Sen. Byrd on C-Span now , bemoaning the fate of Congress, and this country. Go Robert!

[BrainRants]

173. Senator Byrd is on a roll!

Bemoaning the leadership for ramming legislation through Congress!

Go Senator!

[rdmccur]

194. e-mail C-SPAN at [e-mail]

and thank them. Also ask for re-coverage and more coverage later.

[Catherine Vincent]

158. Did Will get to ask questions?

[CornField]

163. No, looked like he was too busy typing to get in line. nt

[crispini]

159. Well. On the whole, that was quite satisfactory.

I am VERY excited about the prospect that they won't seat the electors.

I don't think the shit's gonna hit the fan today or tomorrow, but I think that pretty damn fucking soon, our own private soap opera will be front fucking page news.

And I will be EXTREMELY FUCKING happy.

Sorry for the language, but DAMN. I've got chills from all that. Can I just say how much I love C-SPAN?

[IndyOp]

160. PUSH FOR MSM COVERAGE & CONGRESSIONAL ACTION

CALL ALL of your elected officials and as many media as you can reach today.

I just called the local and Washington offices of my 2 Senators and Congressman and gave them an earful. A woman in my Congressman's Washington office was VERY interested to hear what I had to say about computer vote fraud, agreed that with Republicans in control for the next 4 years we have NO chance for free & fair elections in future, and volunteered her opinion that AMERICANS SHOULD BE RISING IN FUROR to protest this stolen election.

PLEASE - whether or not you believe there is a case for fraud - FIGHT to ensure an immediate complete investigation and overturn of election results if warranted.

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

Now is the time to go NUCLEAR -

[vanboggie]

169. Ask C-Span to show in prime time

I just wrote [e-mail] to request that they show the hearing again in prime time. Reading a transcript just isn't the same as seeing the passion that was in that room.

[Patsy Stone]

165. As a personal aside...

I've never felt as much like a wonk before as I did this morning when I set my VCR to tape C-SPAN... :)

Just sharing. Power to the People.

[crispini]

176. I know, isn't it kind of embarrassing? :)

Randi Rhodes says part of the reason she and her husband split up is that she watches too much C-SPAN.

But DAMN, politics is better than a soap opera in my opinion. All the action! All the intrigue! All the drama! And it's REAL!

[Patsy Stone]

180. I know...

I watch it religiously. I love Prime Minister's Question Time and my husband, God love him, puts up with it. Call me lucky.

I don't even set the VCR for Countdown. :)

[Pepper32]

181. It sure is... and soo much better than so called "reality tv" n/t

[weeve]

170. Orange Ribbons !!

If they're good enough for the Ukraine , they're good enough for us.
Granted we don't have many options ( contact ALL your Representatives/Senators , and let them know that THIS is really the ONLY issue ! ), but Orange Ribbons could help spread the word.

Keep Hope Alive ! (Thanks Jesse ... Jr. AND Sr. !!)

[AmyCrat]

178. Red Hands...

[hippiechick]

171. Roh ?

Are they on a break ? I'm on www.cspan.org (Cspan1) and Olympia Snowe is on taking calls ....

Do i have the right link ?


Thanks !


:hippie:

[crispini]

177. It's over. Look for the recording later....

[bmoney07]

183. Does any one know if there will be a re broad cast??

I am at work today and was able to follow the message board but would like to see it later if possible?

Any ideas???

[AmerDem]

182. I came away from that hearing angry as hell

The way Conyers pushed through the entire hearing as if he were late for dinner and the way average everyday Americans were treated as annoying pains in the asses just pissed me off all the more. Knowing how so many in this country feel about the fraud since 2000 you would think more time could have been allowed and more patience shown towards the issue at hand. The whole problem we have is the elected officials honestly feel they are rulers and not the hired employees of Americans.

I expect nothing to come out from all of this. I didn't see the urgency coming from most of these officials. It was more an avenue allowing them talking points to say they had hearing for people to contribute.

[smartvoter]

185. See your point, but think it was smart to keep it structured and brief.nt

[crispini]

189. Conyers, probably due to looooong experience working with Democrats,

realizes that if you give the Man On The Street the chance to speak, they will YAP ALL FUCKING DAY LONG and not necessarily contribute anything of substance to the discussion.

The Man On The Street should, of course, get a chance to speak, but BOY HOWDY do you have to corral them.

IMO, Conyers was just fine.

[AmerDem]

193. "corral them"?

After almost 5 years of voting fraud going no where, after 3 major elections where our party lost 2 presidential appointments, lost the Senate majority and endless seats country wide, after all of this time where there was hardly nowhere for the voting public to speak out officially, you call it "corralling" them? This my friend is another major problem our country has. These officials work for us. It shouldn't be treated as a blessing for American people to speak out in a official hearing. Instead we should be asking why doesn't it happen more often?

[crispini]

224. Why doesn't it happen more often?

It happens all the time. At the local and state level, at party meetings, at at county board hearings, school board, city council meetings. This gathering looked and smelled like any one of a thousand gatherings of activists, officials, and concern citizens. First there is an official period of gathering statements and then the floor is opened to questions from the public.

And the public is, quite often, prone to rants, statements, getting off the topic, and sidetracking the discussion.

People who get up and have something coherent and to the point to say, get heard & treated with respect -- example, Popich the veteran and the mom who was visting her son and spoke so eloquently.

People who get up and RANT and get off the topic are TAKING UP OTHERS' VALUABLE time and they *should* be corralled. For example, Jeff Fisher, who did not act professional or controlled at all. He acted like a loon.

You're talking like keeping a meeting in some kind of basic order is a BAD thing. Would you prefer chaos? That's really all Conyers was doing, keeping the meeting on topic.

[MarkusQ]

192. He was clearly trying to do the best he could with the time he had (n/t)

[AmerDem]

196. and who set this time?

What bs is this? Americans after 5 years finally have an official hearing to speak about voting fraud but the powers that be say it is only going to be X amount of minutes? These people work for us, remember?

[rdmccur]

203. "A journey of 1000 miles

begins with a single step"

[AmerDem]

208. and after watching the hearing

It looked like they had their one step cut in half.

[MarkusQ]

217. I gather it was a compromise of schedules, including C-SPAN

Given the choice between short w. nation wide coverage and long w. no coverage (which may well have been the case) I would have made the same decision. If it gets a good response, there's plenty of material to follow up on.

Also: it is much better to leave people with the sense that there is a great deal more to be said on the topic, and leave them interested in hearing more, than to leave them bored.

--MarkusQ

[KaryninMiami]

184. AMEN! I just remembered what it is to be an American.

This is the first time in weeks, that I've felt proud to be one- and am feeling hope and faith that in spite of all odds (and the seemingly insurpassable challenges we are all dealing with at the moment)- TRUTH WILL PREVAIL and we will win.

Can this be viewed on line? Does C-Span provide a link to their sessions so that we can send people to who might have missed this?

What an amazing hearing. I could no stop the tears from streaming down my face as I listend to each speaker express to the world, what we all have known for so long and how so many of us are feeling. Anger, outrage, disappointment, determination-- it's all there and it all came out today- ON TELEVISION! (on so it's not CNN but still-- it was great).

Even Jeff Fisher managed to get a few words in and you know what? I still believe, in spite of his rather unprofessional demeanor and rather annoying personality, he has something important to add to this case and that he is probably speaking the truth.

Three cheers to Congressman Conyers and everyone at that hearing!!!!

[savistocate]

211. Those on the two panels -first half,

all showed strength and skills with their committment..they're the ones to power the recount and lawsuits. The Front line.
They've given real confidence and credibility..plus the congress members.

[weeve]

199. Thanks C-Span...Thanks William Pitt !

So glad that C-Span ( at least here in Seattle ) stuck with the Conyers hearing for a full 3 hours ! (Originally they slated it for 2 hrs. )

William Pitt's blog ( http://www.truthout.org/cblog.shtml ) has a GREAT piece on " 20 Amazing Facts About Voting in the USA" . I just e-mailed the link to everyone in my address book. Ask your Republican friends ( if you still HAVE any ) how they'd feel if 80% of this county's voting machines were controlled by George Soros , or Ted Turner (with no paper trail) !!

I'm new to DU , and must say that my discovery of it is the ONE good thing to come out of this election for me. ( Ain't that an awful run-on sentence!! )
Keep Hope Alive !!

P.S. Red Hands / Orange Ribbons .... gotta get crackin' !!

[Catherine Vincent]

207. Welcome to DU, Weeve!

Glad you could join us! :hi:

[canadianbeaver]

209. Glad to see you here at DU Weeve

:hi:

I am truly hoping that the states turn Blue!!! Keep up the good work America!! Stand up for your rights and don't let the people(who get paid by you)roll you over!!!!!!!!!!

[skids]

200. Anyone want me to scan in my notes?

Only took them for the first half and they are kinda illegible,
but might help someone write up a summary. Of course the whole transcript is going to be entered in eventually so maybe not worth the effort.

I loved how Zogby tried to stay out of the fray by saying they don't have any data that would corroborate. They got data :-(

[keepthemhonest]

205. ok did anyone hear

the guy who said that there is not a statute in place in 15 states about having to vote the electoral college and they can use the popular vote, and conyers said that is amazing if true that no lawyers have even thought brought this up. He was very impressed witht the citizen and told him they would look into it. THis was the black gentleman's second comment and he was toward the end of the line.

even more importantly he said we would win in those 15 states if they voted by poplular no electoral

[nomatrix]

204. Truthout is covering it

http://www.truthout.org/overview.htm

Click on the links in the center for listening preference.

Will Pitt Blog
http://www.truthout.org/cblog.shtml

Thanks Will.

[stirringstill]

206. Went Pretty Well

I thought it was on whole great. I thought the panelists were on whole great. The Recount Lawyer, Kenyon Student, and the El Salvador Election Checker were my favorites. Old Man with the IV, the lady with cane! Nice images to tug at your heart. I think this might wake up a few in the MSM--oh who am I kidding. The Reps were pretty pitch perfect too. It seems like a lot of the Reps were pretty anti-machine! That is comforting because it means they are not afraid of the conspiracy possibility and recognize the danger.

I do wish they had covered more details, more facts--there are so many. The machine distribution got across for sure. Though not enough, the machine errors got coverage and the ownership of the machines did too. All and all I think it was a good day for Democracy.

And now I'm going to do something I will regret later. The activist element of the Democratic Party is so hidden these days, at least on TV. I confess feeling a bit awkward about a few of the speakers. There were some great Q&A people--the woman who almost cried, talking about blood of children and taxes. Score! Ms. No Machines. Score! I thought Mr. Exit Poll compiler was channeling me. Stuffed animal / corporate control of machines. Score! Gulf War Vet. Score! But, Speaker Number One aka I will be heard. No I will be heard. I'm not done. Uhmmm! Fisher. Uhmmm! OK there were some other Uhmmm moments but . . . .

Any one who is passionate about this issue is golden in my book but more than a few of the speakers did not show much respect for the forum or format and that was for me personally jarring. They were on TV in front of a largely friendly panel. I think it was rude to ask a 5 minute long question or worse yet a 5 minute long comment.

[KatieB]

223. Can watch on video archive at Cspan.org's website