They can't both be right? Can they?

[ewagner]

I saw Jeff Fisher at the hearings this morning and revisited his web site where he posted his statement to the FBI. In his statement, he implicates Bay Point School as a source of hacking the vote.

Now, on the other hand, we have Wayne Madsen and his informant, Clnt Curtis working for a company out of Oviedo, Florida and linked to Congressman Feeney.

Soooooo.....what's goin on here?

Is one right and not the other? Could they be both right? Is one real and another a plant? Who's story is more credible? Who has the most convincing evidence?

Is anybody else raising the same questions?

[shraby]

1. Maybe we should see what connection Feeney

has to the school..if any.

[stirringstill]

9. Maybe they are but no evidence yet

Madsen admitted I think when he was here at DU last week that there may be a connection but said that he just doesn't know. My personal feeling is that if Fisher is onto something it is definitely incomplete. I personally can not imagine any high school kids at Bay Point playing any major role in this at all, period. The only way for me that this has any legs from the Fisher angle is if Blass himself was involved or knew someone who was. Bay Point has links to Sembler and Klock. Blass appears to be quite a good mathematician and a skilled computer scientist. I think Bay Point is more likely the intersection of these people rather than a high school student hacker training ground. Feeney would most likely know of Bay Point since he knows Klock and perhaps Sembler and Fla gov't money was going to that school, while Sweeny was the speaker of the House. Did Feeney end up giving the contract to Yang after Curtis left or did Feeney pursue another to design the software. I don't know, but I wouldn't rule out that a possible connection will be uncovered.

[momzno1]

11. Okay, this is a reach...

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:wqxpdaUilicJ:www.flcourts.org/pubinfo/redistricting/04-16-2002/House/InitialBrief.pdf+feeney+and+%22bay+point%22+and+florida&hl=en

this is a link to some sort of legal "case" where Feeney is involved in trying to redistrict Part of Miami with a more affluent area which includes the area of "Bay Point". Now, I don't know for sure that Bay Point school is in Bay Point, but the case implies that the redistricting might lead to some political Gerrymandering (SP), and forgive my not posting a snipet of this, but I had to get the cached page and it would not let me cut and paste. The relevant quote is on page 51 of the document. Any thoughts?

[ParanoidPat]

2. It seems to me that the only REAL evidence will come from an audit.......

.......of the actual election machinery and documentation produced on election day.

Now if we can just find someone who's insane enough to file thousands of FOIA requests for the public records, and is willing to run around collecting and auditing them in between going to court to force officials to turn them over.......Oh, wait. :(

[ewagner]

3. I wonder

I'm a lousy "google-er" but I'll give it a try........

No preconception of what I'll find or what I'm looking for but I think it's worth a try......

[Lerkfish]

4. IIRc, curtis was asked to make a prototype program..

that doesn't mean it was the one used. Remember, he was asked if it was POSSIBLE to do what they wanted. It doesn't mean they didn't use that information and let someone else do it.

conceivably, both could be correct, and both could be incorrect, but one does not preclude the other

[Razorback_Democrat]

7. Right, the PROTOTYPE

Fisher's story, while fishy sounding (no pun intended) could still be true at the same time as Curtis's as if Curtis developed a prototype and really only has evidence of a conspircay to commit vote fraud and not actual fraud, then Yes, it could well be that both are true

:hurts:

[trudyco]

5. Both, neither, 1 or other

There is more than one company and more than one type of voting system to deal with. It's possible that both stories are true and uncover different areas of fraud. You know, B*sh the manager type (LOL) delegated it to a couple of underlings and they ran with it each their own way.

Or they could both be plants.

Who knows? Interesting finding all the interconnections, though. If it is true, any of it, I don't want to find it on the New York Times besstsellar list 5 years from now. Or a MM movie.

Our country may not last that long.

trudyco

[Carolab]

6. RaulVB and I and others have been trying

in the "Texas connection" thread. Maybe pick up over there where we left off...I don't know that Feeney has to be connected any more than he already is, through O'Keefe (NASA) and through the DOT and Yang. I've got a theory over on that thread. See what you think of it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=114254&mesg_id=114254

[ewagner]

10. Thanks for the link. n/t

[IndyPriest]

8. Not necessary they're connected

They could both well be pieces of info about a scheme that was carried off differently than either knows. Curtis makes a prototype which probably went through many edits by others before the real software was finalized. What the prototype reveals is Repub INTENT. Fisher has pieces of the story about one possible method of the APPLICATION of that intent.

[pipes]

12. Curtis is talking about things happening before 2000

And Fischer is talking about the 2002 election with Jeb...

Couldn't it be possible that Curtis gave them the prototype, and then with that they went to the Bay Point school of hackers and made it happen. Someone needed to take the program and use it right?

Also, I think we sometimes get confused between the GEMs system and the Black Boxes...they are two different ways to steal votes.

GEMS is done by actually hacking into the system and switching votes in the DB that have been tabulated by the SOS...right?

Black Boxes could just be switching all of these votes internally and then reporting them as such which would mean that there is no reason to hack...right?

So, these are two different yet similarily connected types of fraud...right?

with that being said, is it possible to(are the Black Boxes online) install a "patch" of some sort on these Black Boxes in order to control the vote internally remotely?

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. There were different blackbox machines, thus it could have

involved different programmers. Also, the Curtis link had to do with a proto-type. It's not confirmed that the firm in Oviedo actually did the tampering.

I'm not surprised that a school of delinquents could do the work. I was told by a teacher at UCF who specialized in Cyber Crime that it is ridiculously easy to write programs that come through the net. He kept telling us how important firewalls were to computers and that even that wasn't fail safe. He said that he knew a professor who had very little computer programming, and with basic training was able to send you an e-mail with an attachment that played a song. While the song was playing, the program searched for private information on your computer and sent it back to the source. This professor, by the way, was contacted by Jeb Bush to work in the REAL cyber crime unit that Bush was considering.

So, the fact that delinquents can do the work doesn't surprise me, but the fact that they've been exploited disturbs me terribly. I really hope this doesn't pan out because there isn't a jail big enough to put these adults in.

[ewagner]

14. Thanks to all

for the information.

I'm happy to see that others are following the same reasoning/questions.

It's going to take me a while to wrap my head around all of this.

Thanks again.