Is Cobb Running A Fundraiser Con Game? (Hit on Counterpunch)

[BreakForNews]

Vote Fraud As Fundraiser
Cobb and the Ohio Recount

By JOSHUA FRANK

http://www.counterpunch.org/frank12092004.html

Something fishy is in the air out in Ohio, where the presidential vote recount in being led by the Green Party's ex-presidential candidate, David Cobb, with minimal support from the Libertarian Party.

(snip)

Revamped thanks to a plethora of recent donations, Cobb's newly-minted website boasts that the former presidential hopeful has raised over $250,000 in just eleven days..... And how much of this money is going to the Green Party? "None" claims Green Party headquarters.... And how much is Cobb pocketing himself? How about the rest of his staff? The Cobb camp won't comment....

(snip)

Green Party members and others should be outraged at the fiasco....For the odor of a con-game in Ohio is fast thickening.

END EXTRACTS

All I can say is.... well I'm almost dumbstruck really.
Is this a faux Counterpunch article? Have they been hacked? : )

Mebbe not, eh?

The article also makes a big deal that one of the staff "happens"
to be Cobb's girlfriend. I almost expected to see that word in
quotes like: "girlfriend", 'cos the style is sooooooooo tabloid.

Fintan Dunne, Editor
http://www.BreakForNews.com

OFFTOPIC:
In case you missed it.

John Edwards quote "This fight is not over..
because I'm not finished with this fight" -Sun 5th Dec, NC.

Hear Audio at top of last night's BFNews show: (mp3)
http://www.kathymcmahon.utvinternet.com/mrn/audio/InsideTrackNews041207.mp3

[RaulVB]

1. Ignore this "hit piece." JUST PROPAGANDA (n/t)

[jamboi]

16. Fintan, are you going to respond to my e-mail? This posting looks suspici

iously like a another hit piece. Was I wrong to try to extend some trust to you? I really had a better feeling after listening to your radio program, but this posting makes me wonder about whether dissension is your aim. I've heard negative things about Cockburn, so it makes me wonder where all this is coming from. I'm utterly sincere here and I absolutely am hoping for an e-mail response from you. Did you not recieve it the other night? I apologized about my harshness on the other thread and asked you to consider that your prior article was not correct about some aspects, and that you get in touch with Madsen to see if you two couldn't find some common understanding. Won't you please respond to my e-mail? Thanks, JamBoi

[SomthingsGotaGive]

20. Hi Jamboi

Since you are new here I'll just remind you that you might have more success getting a response from Mr.Dunne if you actually responded to his post instead of pinning you message at the top under the first respondent.


I'm not sure if the edits contained in the original post now clear up the message but as it stands now it seems clear that he was NOT agreeing with this piece.

Quite the opposite, he was actually asking if anyone else agreed the Counterpunch story smelled.

[jamboi]

38. You may be right. I just didn't get a clear message as to why he was post

ing that and what his attitude towards the piece was.

[jamboi]

41. E-mail from Cobb's campaign: Cobb to respond to CounterPunch hit piece.

Here's what I got:

To: JamBoi, [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Will Cobb respond to CounterPunch article re: Cobb misusing donation money?
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:51:54 -0800

Yes, there will be a response.

Thanks for writing.

And if you're truly outraged, feel free to write to the author and to Counterpunch to let them know.

Blair Bobier, Media Coordinator
Cobb-LaMarche
www.votecobb.org
541.929.5755

----- Original Message -----
From: JamBoi
To: [e-mail] ; [e-mail]
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:45 PM
Subject: Will Cobb respond to CounterPunch article re: Cobb misusing donation money?

Dear fellow Greens,

I'm a Green in CA and I just saw this outrageous article and wondered
if Cobb was planning to respond with a press release or OpEd or
whatnot.

Thank you for your prompt attention to this concerning article.

JamBoi

Please see the article at the following Link:

http://www.counterpunch.org/frank12092004.html

[jamboi]

49. Duplicate

[jamboi]

50. Green's Cobb Responds to CounterPunch Hit Piece

Green's Cobb Responds to CounterPunch Hit Piece
by JamBoi

I just got this from the Cobb Campaign Manager Lynne Serpe

From: "Lynne Serpe"
To: JamBoi
Subject: RE: Will Cobb respond to CounterPunch article re: Cobb misusing donation money?
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 00:31:33 -0500

Hi (JamBoi)

I believe the attached was sent in yesterday on my behalf.
Thank you for your concern. It is very difficult to know how to respond; and we are of course quite busy with the recount set to begin in about 32 hours...

Sincerely,

LYNNE SERPE

Campaign Manager
Cobb/LaMarche Ohio Recount
www.votecobb.org

TEXT OF PDF RETYPED IN BY ME SINCE I DON'T HAVE ANOTHER WAY TO COPY/PASTE IT. SO IF I MISTYPE SOMETHING PLEASE FORGIVE.
-----------------------------------------------------

December 10, 2004

Joshua Frank
CounterPunch
PO Box 228
Petrolia, CA 95558

RE:Your December 9 Column in CounterPunch
http://votecobb.org/recount/financial /

Dear Mr. Frank,

Your unfounded accusations are surprising. We have a Financial Report page on our website, with a clear link on the home page, "How money raise so far is being spent." http://votecobb.org/recount/financial / I suggest you bother to read it.

We hope you will have the courage to retract you allegations once you
check the FEC report we filed on December 2nd and the year end report we will file with the the FEC in January.

$113,600 of the monies we raised initially went right out the door to pay the filing costs, and the rest is being to pay reasonable salaries to staff who are working 18 hours per day, 7 day a week as well as paying for volunteer recruitment placement and training.

Aside from training and supervising thousands volunteers in Ohio, we are preparing for a New Mexico recount and incurring the usual communications, traveling, printing, rental and lodging costs and lodging costs associated a with a campaign of this size.

Ohio's 88 counties will start their recount on different days, at different times, and there are several different types of voting machines used. We are working hard to ensure that every vote is counted because the integrity of our voting system is at stake and are working efficiently to keep that cost below a nickel per vote.

Readers of your publication might be better served by a report on the widespread voter intimidation, suppression and blatant racial discrimination of the Ohio presidential election to get at the heart of why the Cobb campaign is demanding a recount there.

Sincerely,

Lynne Serpe
Campaign Manager

[BreakForNews]

23. Whoa with paranoia...

Jamboi dude... friend... easy up.

I'm cool with Madsen hurling insults etc. :)
But I don't dialog him.(?) I just want to critique
his published material, is all. Looking forward
to his next article in the series. Tell him
to give you a nice pic for my article:
http://www.breakfornews.com/articles/MadsenVoteFraudTaleSpin.htm

I already laid to rest the issue of over-reaction
to my "controversial" Madsen article. It's all Here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=128451&mesg_id=130309

p.s.
I think Madsen misrepresented the Clint Curtis "software"
as real FUNCTIONING code that could be passed on by Feeney,
in his interview by Tony Trupiano on Tuesday, by the way.
Audio in my News Show last night (about 20mins. into show):
http://www.kathymcmahon.utvinternet.com/mrn/audio/InsideTrackNews041207.mp3

The day is find news, html website, eat, research, html, record show,
html, find news, clean yard, html. There 'aint enough time to do it all.
Gotta get to the emails later.... just gotta....

[SomthingsGotaGive]

28. I like thick skinned people

Please continue to post here.

I enjoy multiple perspectives.

[jamboi]

35. No paranoia, just trying to dialog. Just spotted your note here...

Thank you for a reply. I was thinking we'd do it through private e-mail, but here is okay with me as well if that is your preference.

Okay, Lets see what you wrote..

You wrote:
"I'm cool with Madsen hurling insults etc. :)"

Well, I didn't think that was his best response to your article, and I think it'd be best for all of us to skip the insults and I will endeavor to be better about that myself. I also feel your article was rather insulting to Madsen. Not that he's above criticism, since obviously there are legitimate things to critique in his articles, but as a third party who is somewhat more aware of more than you are about the course of Madsen's investigation I feel that some of the insinuations in your article are unfair and quite uncalled for. Also there are some definite misrepresentations and distortions there that I would like to challenge you on and request that you retract.

You wrote:
"But I don't dialog him.(?) I just want to critique
his published material, is all."

I don't understand why you would avoid dialogging with him.
I'm very cool with people scrutinizing published reports, but what I'm uncomfortable with is that it is standard journalistic practice to contact someone when you're writing a story regarding them, and your article contains some parts that I believe are a twisting or misrepresentation of the facts. I don't want to think there deliberate, but they are so to me they leave me wondering. I'll have to go through it again later and make a separate post listing those. I e-mailed you one of them and here is that again (its long).

"I saw this in particular in your story and want to urge you to correct it:

'The heart of the story was his seminal account of a $29 million payoff check to an alleged Bush-linked offshore trust. Now he admits the check in question was a fake so inept that Nigerian scammers would blush at such incompetence. No such blushes from Madsen, who now says the check was just a follow-the-money pointer from his mysterious tipsters.'

Madsen never said the check 'was a fake so inept that Nigerian scammers would blush at such incompetence.' No, that is completely wrong. He reported to me that it was such a good forgery that it had every single detail properly executed down to the forged anti-forgery markings. The reference he made to Nigerian scammers had nothing to do with the quality of the forgery. It had to do with the money connections between the various criminal enterprises. Maybe his use of the word 'bogus' mislead you into thinking he was criticizing the quality of the check, but he wasn't. He was just using a synonym for false. Maybe that was an unfortunate choice of words.

Please read the passage again with new eyes:
'According to Laurentian Bank, the check, a U.S. dollar 'money order,' is a bogus instrument tied to Nigerian scamming activities. Laurentian Bank said that a U.S. dollar money order would never be for amounts over $1,000 and any higher amount would be in the form of a bank draft that would require the signature of two senior bank officers. In addition, the bank would never use a cell phone number (514-588-5569) on their checks. The payer on the 'check,' Equity Financial Trust of Toronto, is said by the Canadian Fraud Office to be involved with Nigerian scammers.'

Keep in mind also that things like the dollar amount limit and the cell phone number clue probably didn't emerge immediately because that's the kind of thing one has to do spade work to unearth."

You wrote:
"I already laid to rest the issue of over-reaction
to my "controversial" Madsen article. It's all Here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph..."

Your posting couldn't have laid my points to rest because your posting was writen before I wrote my e-mail. I challenged the above key passage of your article, so of course it doesn't respond to my request that you correct your article on the basis of the actual facts. Please if you would respond directly to my point and update your article and internet radio programs accordingly I think that is only right.

You wrote:
"p.s.
I think Madsen misrepresented the Clint Curtis "software"
as real FUNCTIONING code that could be passed on by Feeney,
in his interview by Tony Trupiano on Tuesday, by the way.
Audio in my News Show last night (about 20mins. into show):
http://www.kathymcmahon.utvinternet.com/mrn/audio/Insid..."

I listened to his interview and then listened to your program also.
I have to take issue with you using the word "misrepresented". The fact is the program certainly did function, but the program was only a working prototype or proof of concept program. So to representing it as functioning code that was likely passed to Feeney does not involve any misrepresentation. Now if someone were to misunderstand what Curtis and Madsen have said and thought that Curtis' program was the exact same code that was put onto any voting machine they would be incorrect. Curtis never claimed that, and I haven't heard Madsen claim that either. If he did say that, that I would simply chalk that up to the kind of things I hear said all the time by non-programmers trying to describe a process they don't really grasp, and not imply that the person somehow "misrepresented" the point since the word "misrepresented" clearly implies some kind of devious motivation. If you think Madsen is incorrect about something I think it is enough to just say "incorrect" and not imply something sinister about his motivation by using terms like "misrepresented"

In addition I will write to Madsen and express to him that his choice of words might have been easily misunderstood by listeners and how he can express it in a way that is more technically accurate.

I share with you the concern that we accurately express ourselves so that we don't over inflate expectations or are dismissed due to unsubstantiated allegations. I share a concern to scrutinize all stories, explore them, correct them etc. But still I feel that your story was quite unfair and in places inaccurate and misrepresented the facts as I know them. I continue to hope that you would dialogue w/ Madsen and seek common ground. Conspiracy theorists such as both of you are would do well to work together to help us get to the bottom of this instead of causing dissension and ripping our movement apart from within by bickering. Can we find a way for all of us to "just get along" and work together against our common enemy, ie. injustice and tyranny?

Thanks for your due consideration,

JamBoi

[jamboi]

40. Okay, I wrote to Madsen to ask him to send an e-mail and passed along

your objection re: lack of clarity on Curtis' software. Here's part of my letter to him and his response:

Jamboi wrote:
(Speculative conceivable scenario from a programmers point of view)
"...is that Feeney probably took it to
other programmers who looked at the source code, figured out the two
clever elements I IDed before and then applied them in their own
programs that actually DID get put on the machines"

Madsen responded:
"He did tell me that Henry Nee, who was later arrested for illegal exports to China, looked at his program. He was somehow a senior coder to Clint."

[jamboi]

47. Fintan, still hoping for your response to my above post and prior e-mail

hope all is well. I enjoyed your webcasts (with the obvious exception of the Madsen reporting where you know I disagree with you). Hope to hear back soon.

JamBoi

[latteromden]

2. WHOA, hold on a second here.

Don't believe a WORD of it. I supported Cobb in the beginning of the election season, and he's an honest person. The Greens are truly worried about our election system; they're not the type to do things just for money.

[bowens43]

3. Gee. I wonder what your motivation for posting this was....

[Razorback_Democrat]

5. why do you question his motivation?

;-)

[BreakForNews]

26. My motivation is...

..that I just can't believe it. Period.

Are Counterpunch 4 real?
Sadly, yes.
I've heard of left gatekeepers....
But,.. Left StormTroopers.....?!?

It's a non-story story.
Mud without substance.
Whazzup??

[KittyWampus]

45. Counterpunch Is The Leftist Version Of Fox.

[LisaM]

4. Counterpunch wants to drive a wedge between Democrats and Greens

and they HATE Kerry and anything that would benefit him.

[KoKo]

6. Why would "Counterpunch" hate Kerry? (n/t)

[LisaM]

11. Take a look at the book they are promoting

comparing Bush and Kerry. Why do they hate Kerry? I can't answer that. But I am a frequent reader of Counterpunch. The most valuable articles (and the best researched and least emotional) are those dealing with Latin America. When it comes to the subject of the Democratic Party they can be ballistic. They didn't want Kerry to win the election for reasons I don't know and can't explain.

[Helga Scow Stern]

13. I am not that sophisticated, but from the picture on the cover of the

book advertised there, A Dime's Worth of Difference, it seems like the standard kind of Kerry bashing that goes on in these circles. I have seen it quite a bit in The Nation. David Corn wrote after the first debate that it really didn't matter, no one won, etc. Maybe they do have some legitimate gripes, but they can't compare to the fascism we are facing.

Who needs Rush and O'Reilly when this goes on.

[Helga Scow Stern]

10. That seems obvious by the tone of the article.

"However well-intentioned Cobb's pains to make every vote count seem, he may well be pulling a fast one on his supporters and Democrats, who have been battling denial since John Kerry's loss to George W. Bush last month."

It seems a lot of these guys like David Corn just can't stand the fact that anything good could be happening.

What was it that PATRICK wrote, "proudly ineffectual..."

[righteous1]

32. We can't right everybody that disagrees with us off .

Just becaus ethey write soething that you disagree with shouldn't mean they are automatically suspect and that everything they write is now "bad". An open mind is a growing mind.

[Vidar]

7. Rove rears his ugly head. Cobb is an unselfish hero.

[november3rd]

8. we're seeing everything now

who knows what we'll see next?

[sandnsea]

9. Will the left ever learn?

Sometimes you just have to shut the fuck up.

Besides, $250,000 doesn't go that far. And if some of it helps the Green Party, so what.

Ack. Somebody tries to do something good and gets attacked. No wonder people become less willing to take a stand every day.

[liam97]

12. IGNORE COUNTERPUNCH!!!

Cobb details how the money is spent

[Helga Scow Stern]

15. Maybe he should tell them. n/t

[ooglymoogly]

14. do a google on joshua frank

"how the liberals did bushes work for him" see where he is coming from

[Helga Scow Stern]

17. Thought that was you--of "Madsen fame" -- lol. n/t

[CupaJoe]

18. The Greens are doing exactly what's needed,

and their fundraising efforts are quite modest.

Anyone else should try mobilizing 3,000 volunteers to monitor an entire state, set them up to do ACTUAL WORK, and do it all on a shoestring budget.

The recount will start on Dec. 14 and will end before Christmas. For those 10 days, all of us should be supporting the OH Greens in every way we can -- by sending money and working our local media to raise awareness of the recount.

[Junkdrawer]

19. Cobb is about to be "Bev Harrised"...

see "Wellstoned"...

[mirandapriestly]

33. Good point, another character assassination toward

someone who is fighting election fraud. Interesting and maybe not a coincidence. I don't know who to trust. I have a hard time listening to a smear on Cobb, though, after everything that he has done.

[KittyWampus]

46. Bev Harrised? You Mean Cobb Is Going To Act Like A Total Dick

and then threaten to sue people who support him?

[catnhatnh]

21. A WHOLE quarter mil???

...shit,that's not 1% of what was spent on Swift Boat horseshit advertising....this one is easy....Approx 115,000 direct recount fees-plus Cobb has to pay travel and lodging for volunteers to monitor the recount,etc.,etc,....If you bite on this one you ARE flaky...

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SomthingsGotaGive]

24. Huh?

Explain please
Are you calling another DU member a Troll? If so that is against the rules.
Welcome to DU

[New Earth]

25. ok, i now take back my defending this Dunne guy the other night

definately trying to start some 'spin'. i will now ignore anything he says when he posts here.

[SomthingsGotaGive]

27. HI Faye

Did you read the whole thing?

What exactly do you find wrong with this post.

Please please please tell me what is so offensive.

Had I started a thread questioning an article that appeared in COUNTERPUNCH would I Be a freeper?

This DU MEMBER is only arguing that Cobb might be victim of a smear. THATS IT

edit to add:

Did you miss this part?.....

" END EXTRACTS

All I can say is.... well I'm almost dumbstruck really.
Is this a faux Counterpunch article? Have they been hacked? : )

Mebbe not, eh?

The article also makes a big deal that one of the staff "happens"
to be Cobb's girlfriend. I almost expected to see that word in
quotes like: "girlfriend", 'cos the style is sooooooooo tabloid.

Fintan Dunne, Editor "

[BreakForNews]

29. Here's the spin

My motivation is...
..that I just can't believe it. Period.

Are Counterpunch 4 real?
Sadly, yes.
I've heard of left gatekeepers....
But,.. Left StormTroopers.....?!?

It's a non-story story.
Mud without substance.
Whazzup??

from post 26 above

Thanks for even brief support btw. But tel me...
Do trolls/plants write this kind of material:
DAWN OF THE G8 NEW WORLD ORDER
http://www.breakfornews.com/G8-World-Order.htm
"The Middle East has been miraculously enlarged to become
the ominously named "Broader Middle East and North Africa."

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

34. I can't believe it either, and once again I see Rove's dirty fingerprints

All over this.

I have listened to audio reports of yours Fintan, and have read some of your articles in the past. I know that your allegiance is to Truth. Thank you.

[EFerrari]

36. That's right. This is baloney

We put together the most massive liberal coalition I've seen in my lifetime this year. So, what would be the Rovian move to derail the recount? Start some infighting.

[kerry2win]

30. if he is it doesn't seem like much

with how many people and lawyers must be organized to pull this off. If he makes some so what more power to him. At least this money is getting something done. I thank the Green Party.

[Carolab]

31. I have a REAL PROBLEM with Joshua Franks

He complains and finger-points at just about EVERYONE. What is this guy's major malfunction anyway? Who died and made him king?

[EFerrari]

39. I'm not familiar with him but this article is so misleading

Everyone with a pulse is raising money for the recount, for investigations and lawsuits.

[henslee]

37. Any con game Cobb can run is pales in comparison to the BFEE con game. nt

[Zan_of_Texas]

42. I've stood at a precinct and talked with Cobb for hours.

We were both campaigning at an election a couple of years ago.

I can't say he showed me all his financial records or anything, but I was incredibly impressed at his intellect, his commitment, and his basic humility.

The Ohio recount is one of the few pieces of good news on our plate in the past month.

David Cobb is one of the people taking on the 800-lb gorilla, when Kerry and Edwards are AWOL.

Give him and the Greens some credit.

[Zan_of_Texas]

43. By the way

A recent Move-on email said that Move-on and groups like it raised $300 million supporting Kerry in this recent election.

$300,000 raised by Greens (if it gets that high) -- roughly 1% -- to see what the vote really was doesn't seem all that frivolous an expense.

[ClintCooper2003]

44. Joshua Frank is that pr*ck who wrote something on one of the...

right-wing sites about how stupid the recount was, didn't he?

[Vote4Kerry]

48. Before you criticize Cobb, remember he was the victim of altered vote too

His vote totals were also changed in Ohio. He has every reason to demand a recount for the Greens. Here is the proof:

http://www.oliverwillis.com/node/view/1152

http://election.sos.state.oh.us/results/RaceDetail.aspx?race=PP

[PATRICK]

51. Cobb at the Conyer's hearings

Simply put, he used the forum as a way to highlight his party and reform. That seems to be the only quid pro quo he is interested in- in the utter vacuum of Democratic leadership on this issue. He certainly doesn't look like someone grafting money but someone perfectly willing to be a progressive political champion and advertise his party along the way. Both all natural.

Sometimes its too obvious for the spiteful to grasp. The field is an open political opportunity in a genuinely critical cause for all third parties. I only wonder if he is still too "green" to capitalize and strategize. Not about where his sincerity is coming from.