What Good is a Recount?

[Jack_Dawson]

I mean, it's great and all, but paper ballots aren't the problem. It's the computerized, untraceable vote-switching that's the problem. How the F are we going to prove Kerry got robbed?

:shrug:

[0007]

1. I agree with ya Jack, but at least we have our foot in the door, eh?

[Mastiff]

5. Ohio doesn't have that many machines with no paper trail.

If you show he was robbed in those areas with a paper trail that will call the others into question. Then you could use the statistical methods mentioned on this board to prove fraud. It would be easier to accept once proof fraud happened elsewhere in Ohio is found. I think them throwing out the voter tapes they were required by law to keep for two years goes a long way toward showing malfeasance. The reason they gave was "to save space and avoid confusion with the certified count". Yeah, RIGHT! Sure I believe that.

[Guava Jelly]

2. Because most of OHIO used Punchcards

and Ohio law defines clearly what counts as a vote.

[jsamuel]

4. True, but they can be replaced too

We should still have the recount, but soooo much more is needed to make sure we will not be duped again.

[IAMREALITY]

3. Well, In My Opinion

The biggest purpose it can serve is by forcing many uninformed americans to ask "hey, why is there a recount going on in Ohio". That opens the door for a hell of a conversational topic. :)

[eomer]

8. But if the recount shows no significant problem

then it may shut the door on the whole issue.

It seems to me that we need at least some success in the recount or else the whole thing falls apart.

[righteous1]

13. Worse than that, if nothing out of the ordinary

is found and Ohiojoe gets the bill for the recount he's gonna be pi$$ed

[lakelly]

6. Here a vote, there a vote...

Plus we need to start somewhere. Although I honestly do not believe there will be any change in the outcome, the process still needs to be scrutinized, carefully, in front of the entire country. (maybe in front of the entire world). It seems the foreign press was much more intested about our voting "irregularities" than our MSM.

[billie_]

10. AGREED we need to show that we actually still COUNT Votes in the USA

and that we believe in counting votes....

to just pass over the "irregularities" that cast as much or MORE doubt than did the "irregularities" in the Ukraine sends a message that we no longer live in a democracy.

[lthuedk]

7. If scanners are used, then precinct by precinct totals can be manually

counted before tabulation. I think the 3% test ballot counts should be done in suspect counties should the biggest swings relative to exit polling.

[eomer]

9. I've been wondering about this

Do the scanners produce a result that can be seen independently of the tabulation process?

Are the scanners themselves susceptible to hacking or is it only the central tabulation system that we're worried about?

Are the scanners networked in the the tabulator or is the result from the scanner entered in manually in the tabulator (sneaker net)?

[eomer]

12. Also...

With regard to machines used to count punch card ballots - do they spit out raw numbers like punch 6 had 500 votes and then the tabulator is where they program in that punch 6 = Kerry?

The reason I ask this one is that in Cuyahoga County (maybe elsewhere too) it's going to be important to know whether and how many votes got dropped into the Disqualified bucket. Will there be an opportunity to see this even if they want to avoid us seeing it?

[Old and In the Way]

11. Here's a way to circumvent that entire spin-

Seems to me that a first comprehensive action by the Democratic Party needs to involve a national/local coordinated campaign to ask some fundemental questions of it's constituents. How to accomplish this?

How about sending a postcard to each registered Democratic voter in the country with the following questions:

(1) Who did you vote for?
(2) What Party were you enrolled in on 11/2/04?
(3) What is your most important domestic priority?
(4) What is your most important international priority?
(5) What changes and actions do you want Congressional Democrats to undertake, starting in January?

I'd make these questionnaires available to Republicans, too. I doubt we can expect any support from rabid Bush Republican supporters...but perhaps there are more than a few Kerry Republicans who are interested in knowing if their vote was counted properly in this election.

Coordinate the collection with Democratic notary publics and local activists to get this information back for collation, analysis, and publication.

We can no longer expect Republican corporate media or biased polling companies to deliver our message to/from the Democratic leadership. We need to pipeline our communication more directly so we can get our own answers and insight on this election.

Secret ballots and a criminal party that controls the machines to record the vote, the process to count it, and the media to announce it ; it's a recipe for a bloodless transition to a fascist, totalitarian country.

[Patchuli]

15. What an excellent idea!

Have you thought of proposing that to the DNC? I betcha the results
would mirror the (real) exit polls.

As far as the fascism goes, there are enough real Americans out
here that will stand in their way. Are they going to send us all
to Gitmo? Another enormous job we obviously have is to educate
all the uninformed out there that they support a monster. It
really chaps my hide every time I hear how important the gay
marriage thing was to them! People are dying and they find
suppression of gay people to be more important???! WTF?

I love Old and in the Way. My husband and I kept saying all through
this election, 'Damn I wish Jerry was still here. He'd have fought
for us with word and song!'

[Old and In the Way]

16. Thanks patchuli!

Yeah, I wonder what he'd think if he showed up today.....he'd be amazed at the changes to this country. :-( Seems Robert Hunter ought to have written something about the darkness....maybe a New Speedway Boogy Redux.

BTW, do you recognize my icon????

[MRKARNO]

14. Precedent setting and media attention with the latter being the key

[Jack_Dawson]

17. Yes, I would agree

Welcome to DU!

:hi: