STOP DOWNING KERRY!!!! This is war for democracy

[AnIndependentTexan]

Many of you may think that Kerry is just sitting there ignoring the election fraud. I believe that is a wrong estimate of what is really happening. From my best judgment I believe Kerry is acting like a General or high ranking commander during war time. He is stationing his troops in positions while he works behind the scenes.

What makes me the best judgment on this? Nothing I'm only 23, but it is just the little things were when there was problems with the third party Kerry seemed to be there or his crew did. There is a lot going on behind the scenes that we do not know about.

Kerry also can not step in front on this because he is too big of a target. Remember what happen to Gore when he tried to protest the election? That same thing would have happen to Kerry only worst because they control more now then when Gore was running. Kerry is being smart and the logic behind this might fall on deaf ears because that is what it is suppose to do.

Remember the fight for Democracy is bigger then Kerry or Bush. We are not here to overthrow a election. We are here to insure our founding principals of EVERY MAN IS CREATED EQUALLY is up held when it comes to voting. This includes women and all races. If we do overturn the election that is just icing on the cake! We the people will not forget and will not move on till real Democracy is back in the good old U.S.

[Malikshah]

1. Kerry needs to show strength of character and of convictions

Target or not.

It's bigger than him and his presidency.

His silence is deafening. Whether he wants to be or not, he's the frikking alternative to the fraud in office at this moment. He needs to step up and demand complete and total truth.

Otherwise he's playing to Rove's tune (much like the DNC and the "no bash Bush" brigade...hello-- anyone see the RNC...)

[LittleClarkie]

5. Contradictory

If this is bigger than him and his presidency, then he doesn't need to be out front being a target. The attention would go to him, and not to the fraud.

By conseeding the result, we can concentrate on the process. If the process proves to be broken enough, the result will come back into contention with little help. People have to come to this conclusion on their own and get outraged by it.

He's be playing Rove's tune if he stepped out and was Gored like Gore was in 2000. THAT, and not this, played into Rove's hand.

With Kerry not contesting the outcome, the Republicans have little reason to stand in the way of the investigation. They can lamely say it's a waste of time, but "Gee, if Dubya won fair and square, recounting the votes shouldn't be a problem." Rather like OJ, if there's no guilt there, you shouldn't mind us taking a peek.

Though it would be nice to see the Republican Party equivalent of driving down the highway in a White Bronco with a gun to your head.

Whether it's intentional or not, Kerry is doing the right thing for the vote fraud issue. We do not need a dramatic and yet utterly useless and distracting grandstand gesture from Kerry at the moment.

It might make some people feel better about him. He'll likely take flak from some folks until he does mnke that gesture, I suppose. But this is as you say, not about him. I guess he'll just have to accept the loss of support for the greater good.

As long as the Republicans don't see a threat in the way of a flipped election, they won't stonewall as hard as they would if Kerry was front and center.

[Malikshah]

18. See my post below

He needs to show that it's no longer about the presidency--it's about the process.

He takes himself out of the running but DEMANDS a verified account of the vote.

That will gain headlines and show the fraud for what it IS.

Then we let the chips fall where they may.

[seito]

20. You want him to demand a verified count of the vote...So, what was this?

"I want every vote counted in this election, but I also want to make sure there are no questions or doubts in future elections. That’s not too much to ask in the world’s greatest democracy and model for free elections" John Kerry

[Malikshah]

23. All I'm saying is he needs to up the ante.

He needs to make the media take notice by making a bold move.

So far he hasn't-- the old "chess move" gambit doesn't work-- the idea that we need to wait for some response--because "they" know what they're doing.

The barn door is open and the horses have long since gone on that method.

This *should* be an historic series of elections, but in the end will end up being more of the same as long as folks play by the rules of their opponents.

[LittleClarkie]

25. The media barely covered him when he was the candidate

He could set himself on fire, and they'd barely bat an eyelash. I don't know how he could "make them take notice" except to say, "There goes 'LiveShot' again, trying to grab attention."

[ClassWarrior]

6. In other words... "Johhhhnnnn... if you love me you'll kill yourself!!"

I don't know about you, but I prefer my lovers alive.

NGU.

[Malikshah]

17. Hell, all I care about now is the

Right to love.

Then we can talk about keeping lovers alive.

[LittleClarkie]

26. Or "I never cared for you."

But if you kill yourself, I'll erect a nice monument and remember you fondly.

[angrydemocrat]

30. LMAO! ClassWarrior......

I have to totally agree with you. But talking to some of the naysayers around here is like talking to a brick wall.:crazy: Some simply can't comprehend simple logic and strategy.:dunce: No matter how well you explain things to them, they still don't get it. :eyes: Hell if Kerry took off running and dove straight off a damn cliff it wouldn't be enough to satisfy these people. :grr: Hell they will still have their opinions and thats all the hell it is opinions. And all I do is remind them "opinions are like assholes everybody has one", LMAO and forget about them. They aren't worth the time it takes to argue with them. There are to many other things to worry about than fooling around with the naysayers playing the worlds smallest violin to the tune my heart bleeds for you.:nopity:

[bunny planet]

33. Another DUer as addicted to the smileys as I am.

:7

[Malikshah]

35. A naysayer...that's a new one for me.

Looks like some folks would rather focus on smileys and jumping to conclusions...

Oh well. I call for a bold move on Kerry's part and I'm ridiculed.

Guess that's par for the course. Heaven forbid folks would want a bold move. One that shows the guts and courage that I know John Kerry has.

Just wish other folks might take the time to think before they get creative with the ridicule.

Guess we'll order up a big heaping helping of More of the same and leave it at that.

[Wordie]

7. You just provided the argument to your own argument!

<snip>
"It's bigger than him and his presidency."

You are completely right there. And if Kerry became more outspoken about this, it would be ALL about Kerry. But, as you say, it is bigger than him and his presidency. Consequently, he should NOT become any more outspoken than he is now, for fear the larger issues would get drowned out in a debate about him and his presidency.

[Malikshah]

16. I can understand where folks would think that

but I would argue that's the way Rove and Co want us to think.

He's got to think beyond the same old game.

He's got to do the right thing and not care about the consequences for himself-- he's got to make that clear from the get go. He could say at the start-- I will not accept the presidency no matter the outcome, but every vote needs to be verified and sign a pledge to do so.

This would draw attention and also show that he doesn't care about himself, but rather the democracy of this country.

In other words-- it's bigger than Kerry.

[European Socialist]

9. I agree

This election fraud issue only has so much shelf life with the public. It might not play to well at the end of January. Now is time to strike.

[catgirl]

2. I'm With You There!

[rodeodance]

3. agree--enough Repugs have bashed him--lets not help them!!

[sweetladybug]

4. I agree with you! And it's obvious you are a very intelligent 23 yr old

n/t

[MarkusQ]

8. I can't decide

I can't decide (at least on the information I have now) what to make of him.

I was quite angry that he said nothing about the arrest of Badnarik and Cobb during the second debate (do you remember when the US used to cry out whenever minority candidates were arrested in third world countries?). I am somewhat suspicious about his early wins over Dean in the primaries (was he chosen by whoever may be rigging the general election?). And I am disappointed in his silence now (doesn't he have anything to say?).

On the other hand, the direct route between here and his inauguration is doubtlessly mined and fortified against a frontal assault. If there is a way in, it is through the back roads, the very roads we are traveling here. Kerry can not follow, and frankly I'm not sure what he could do to help.

I'd like to see him crying from the rooftops about the "mandate," about back door provisions in bills that are rammed through congress, about the mismanagement of our foreign policy...but I don't know enough at this point to say if the path he has chosen is right or wrong.

--MarkusQ

[satya]

10. You said it! United we stand... This is what I am visualizing:

Kerry and crew are building their case against the Bushites--but it's bigger than just election fraud. When he presents the evidence (LIHOP? MIHOP? drug running/money laundering/???) the election fraud is just a piece of it, part of the coverup. And then the whole gang is rounded up and taken away in handcuffs and we the people throw ourselves one helluva party, dancing in the streets to Bruce and the E-Street Band...
:party: :bounce: :toast:

[Kerry fan]

11. My first day as a member, but

I have been lurking here since the first debate and I used your links to vote for Kerry in all the debates and have been using your links to vote in petitions and send e-mails since the election.

But, I have been reading Kerry bashing so much lately that I just had to enroll to get something off my chest. It is really bothering me.

I am not a real bright person and not a good typist, and most of you seem far better than I, most of the time. Except when you start the Kerry bashing and giving some of your opinions about what Kerry should be doing. Are we doing the "eating our own" thing? Seems that way to me.

With all my heart I want to see Kerry in office, but, IMO, this goes far beyond Kerry or any one person. This goes to the heart of our democracy, and imo, this is what we need to keep in mind, and stop trying to "eat our own".

I see many trying to explain what the perils could be if Kerry were more visible. Why that is not common sense among us all is surprising to me, after what happened in 2000. I sincerely believe Kerry and many, many others are behind the scenes doing precisely what they need to be doing at this moment in time, and when they have enough evidence and citizens behind them, they will strike.

Silly, knee-jerk, negative reactions will serve no positive purpose to our cause, imo. We need patience and perserverence.

This can only be accomplished by "we the people", and the DUers have been doing a great job and I want to Thank You for all your hard work.

[New Earth]

12. Hmm, that sounds exactly like what Kerry would say

and exactly what i thought he's been thinking. glad you feel the same.

best first post ever!!!! :) :grouphug:

[emulatorloo]

13. Well said, and welcome to DU

This is our fight. Let's fight it side by side.

Here's to you :toast:

And welcome to DU :hi:

[Kerry fan]

15. Thanks

Exactly, side by side, that's the only way we can win, and I really feel in my heart we WILL win.
IMO, it is sooooo obvious that if we don't stop this fraud, the right wing will have successfully hijacked this country and democrats, nor any other party will ever have a say in our government again. It will only get worse.

And I think most people in this country are beginning to realize that, at least the politicians, both dems and third parties.

So, lets please keep the faith. That is all that has kept my sister and me going since the election. Almost ashamed to admit it, but we cried for about three days, not only because Kerry wasn't the "winner", but because we knew he was the winner and that the election had been hijacked, and, in the process, our democracy.

[LittleClarkie]

27. Heck, I still go off on crying jags

Has there ever been an election where the electorate on the "losing" side was this despondent.

And if Rush makes one more joke about it, I'm cutting out his heart and feeding it to the cat.

[seito]

14. Rock on Kerry Fan

Just the spoonful of common sense that we needed.

:toast:

Welcome to DU!!!

[fearnobush]

22. Welcome to DU. I am guilty of Kerry bashing.

But overall I love that guy like a family member... of whom I often bash. Im my case, most Kerry bashing is out of frustration. In my heart I know he can only go so far, especially when he has little support from our piss poor, weak and lame DNC leadership (Yes we need Dean for DNC Chair). For months, Kerry was out their fighting for us in the nasty trenches of the campaign and the only folks out their willing to stick out there necks were us and just a few good elected Dems. Kerry stuck his neck out, and now today, the media finally has the balls to prove him right, at least as far as armor plating for HUMVEES is concerned. Now they make a big deal out of the fact the Rumsfeld indeed lied - Wow no big surprise here, but back in June, they shamed Kerry for telling the truth. Kerry is one a a few good men that I will always respect.

[LittleClarkie]

29. It's funny but I've noticed something like this

We bash him and it's accepted (it doesn't go without rebuttal, mind, but it's accepted). But if someone outside our Dem "family" blasts Kerry, we close ranks and get all outraged. Since the election, I've seen people get all angry at Candy Croweley for one, John O'Neill for another when it was suggested that Kerry might sue, and Jerome Corsi when he suggested he might run against Kerry in Mass.

So he's still a member of the family. Just a member some of us ain't talkin' too at the moment. But that's okay. Get it out. Me, I'm crying every couple days. Not angry, just really, REALLY disappointed that a man I admire is not president, and really, REALLY sad for all those who needed help to be "on the way."

The NYT editorial today really broke my heart. The thought of soldiers having to practically beg for life-saving armor like Oliver Twist "Please, sir, may I have some armor" just make my blood boil. Support the troops? These people don't know the meaning of the words. But whether the troops know it or not, John Kerry DOES.

Damn, here I go again. Tissue anyone?

[Sydnie]

36. That's the "I can kick my dog but you can't" theory

I understand it completely. I felt that way about my ex! LOL

I agree. I still tear up more than I can explain to the other people in my life. Even my ex told me how he was telling his friends just how disappointed I was and how involved I was.

We have to stop carving him up and serving him on a platter to the other side. We have to want it enough to get out there and make our voices heard for this election and for every election to follow.

My new mantra -- What would Kerry do? He led what others thought was an impossible fight in the 70's. We must now take a page from his book and do the same. He expects no less from us than he did of himself.

Welcome to DU Kerry Fan!

[seito]

40. Here you go

:cry:

[bunny planet]

34. Welcome to DU. Who says you are not a bright person. Great 1st post.

:toast:

[txindy]

37. Very well said

I agree with you. People want their hands held no matter what the consequences for this investigation, so I doubt you'll change any minds. I know I haven't, so I've mostly given up bothering with those who refuse to see beyond their own needs. This issue has worldwide implications.

Besides, let's face it. If John Kerry were out in public, leading a deafening charge against the fraud, the same people criticizing him now would accuse him of not being subtle or strategic enough. Until he's actually in the WH, he can't win with them. No one can.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Patsy Stone]

41. I love John Kerry

I still cry.

This is not about John Kerry. This is about even the worst, repugnant slime having the right to vote. Go read that last speech from The American President. Sorkin gives me goosebumps. "America is advanced citizenship."

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/MovieSpeeches/moviespeechtheamericanpresident.html

It'll make you weep for the way it was...

[newyawker99]

42. Hi Kerry fan!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[peacetalksforall]

19. Yes, it is important that this is seen as a citizen initiative in

unprecedented cooperation between Dem citz and Inde citz and Inde leaders.

[pleiku52cab]

21. I disagree to this extent

It IS ALSO about this election. If we continue to take the 'slow, silent, and stealthy' approach to THIS election FRAUD, it will become almost impossible to curtail or reverse the damage that this administration has already done to our country. Before slamming my opposition view, take a minute to remember what our country was like before the first election FRAUD in 2000. In the ensuing four years the repugs have advanced leaps and bounds over the simple methods they used in 2000. Now imagine what the election of 2008 will be like after four more years of corrupt repug rule.

[Kerry fan]

24. Now imagine what the election of 2008 will be like after four more years

Now imagine what the election of 2008 will be like after four more years of corrupt repug rule.


I believe that is exactly the point. We must have the whole corruption tied up in a neat little bundle, so that even sane thinking republicans will have to face what is going on, just like they did with Watergate, and like the book says, this is "Worse than Watergate".

It's going to take awhile, but, I believe before the 2006 elections we will have a system we can trust. And, I believe this chickenhawk, corrupt, warmongering, thuggery administration will be out the door, hopefully, a few of them in jail.

[angrydemocrat]

31. Very Well Said!

I couldn't agree with you more. By the way, you should visit the John Kerry forum. Alot of Kerry supporters there.

[Democrat Dragon]

28. BRAVO! well said!

Who knows by 2008 there might not even BE an America, or even EARTH!

The world is at stake! We must save the world from evil overlords who paln to take it over! :kick:

[Griffy]

32. Definatly.. focus on getting public attention to fraud! n/t

[GetTheRightVote]

38. Could not put it better myself, thank you for this thread.

[Withywindle]

39. Amen, and thank you!

I understand a lot of people think that Kerry needs to make a dramatic statement of some sort NOW, because of all the deadlines. I understand that, but, frankly, the Rethugs hold all the cards, and Kerry knows that. I think the evidence has to be massive and unassailable, and it's going to take time--and some degree of STEALTH--to get it all lined up. I have no doubt that some degree of foul play, whether it was deceitful electronic machines, voter intimidation, shoddy or insufficient equipment in densely-populated Democratic places, "lost" absentee or early ballots, wrongly discarded provisional ballots, you name it. I think all these things happened, in different places. If you follow this pattern of skimming a little bit off the top in lots of places, I'll bet Kerry actually won the popular vote as well.

But how do you prove this? Some of it's unprovable by nature. More of it isn't. What the process does absolutely NOT need is a "celebrity" (which Kerry is now) yelling and waving his arms around. In fact, I think it's good that if Kerry has to have a camera stuck in his face, he's talking about everything BUT that. Children's health care? Great! Voting against that vile Repub bill a few weeks back? Cool! Going to Iraq in January? Awesome (but watch your back)!

If everyone does their part, we have a chance at getting this blown open by '06. I think. But probably not by January 20.

[Cherie59]

43. Well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cherie59]

44. Just bought my new "John Kerry for President 2008" bumper sticker.

[delphine]

45. Your own post

is contradictory.

If we chose him to lead us, then he needs to lead. If this is bigger than him, then why is his being a target an issue at all? He should do the right thing.

How can being forceful about the unfairness of people standing in line for hours on end make him a target? And who cares if he's a target if it's not about the election being overturned.

And whatever logic there is behind it, he has already lost scores of votes because he has "seemed" so meek and silent about all of it.

He could show more outrage over how people were treated based on objective facts and still avoid looking like he's got on a tin foil hat.

Gore might have been vilified but that was because he conceded too quickly based on bogus information and from that moment on he was the challenger and not on equal footing to see what the real outcome was.

Kerry did the same thing. He conceded right away, based on partial counts, and has let bush run with the ball.

So the MSM and the majority of the country want to move on beyond the election.

Only Kerry could have made this an issue the MSM want to pay attention to, and only Kerry could make the recounts happen in a timely manner, and only Kerry has the money and resources to fight fraud in several states. He has held his money while the glibs pay for everything.

I have only lately come to this realization, and it's painful. But there is no grand strategy beyond being a viable candidate in 2008.

And it's this strategy that hurts his chances in 2008.

[capi888]

46. Thank You for posting Support for Kerry!

This investigation is very crucial to our Democracy...beyond Kerry,and the Presidency. If Kerry would come forward now, it would be torn apart by the Rovian Media...Plus, the fact that when a case is in Discovery, all information is not released to the public. That would be insane. We should know this as Anebeck is being very careful to get his ducks in a row before filing his challenge. If many on ALL blogs were to be "let in" to the deep facts of this election, the oppornents would be countering in a second. Patience my dear friends, as hard as it is, must be achieved to reach the goal of REMOVING THIS ADMINSTRATION... and this is not for us just here in America, it is A WORLD WIDE NECESSITY..There IS much more to this than the ELECTION, it has tennicles that reach to many Countries...Just read the news of other elections...Ukraine, now Tiawan...PATIENCE IS GOLDEN..UGH!!! HARD TO DO!!