It's the Culture War, stupid! (not about the candidates)

[President Jesus]

If you take anything from this election, it should be that the other side is driven by the culture war. They are not driven by normal electoral issues, and things like results and facts take a back seat to what they view as 'values'.

This is not Kerry's fault. The only Dem candidate that might have made some inroads with these culture warriors, Holy Joe, was flatly rejected by us...and rightfully so.

Kerry and the DNC performed brilliantly in the blue states, so I don't think there is serious dysfuction going on here. It's simply that the GOP has the slight advantage of leveraging very ideological, well-organized people right now. These people feel they are at war...not necessarily with Arabs...but with US.

The problem with the GOP is going to be giving these people what they want...because it is awfully hard to make a zealot happy, and the GOP does not have the type of mandate (or political will) to institute the types of social changes these people expect.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

1. Wesley Clark could have won.

He is from Arkansas, he's religous, a former Military General. He was the PERFECT Candidate. I wanted a Clark/Dean ticket, but Clark never made it.

Wesley Clark would have won all 20 Gore States plus the Carolina's, Arkansas, and Tennesee and Virginia.

[TimeToGo]

4. I think a Kerry/Clark ticket would have been stronger

than Kerry/Edwards

[President Jesus]

5. this argument is moot

the very fact is, Clark, or Dean, couldn't even come close to winning the primaries...elections amongst friends, so to speak.

John Kerry was an excellent candidate. We simply underestimated what it is that drives our opponents. It's not facts, results, gaffes, etc. It's culture..and WE'RE the enemy. All else takes a back seat.

[bowens43]

11. nonsense.

Kerry was the right choice.

[Bo]

12. I love Clark

I knew Kerry was to wishy washy...hell 20 years a senator and i had never heard of him....

[sadiesworld]

14. Clark was always the best choice.

That's why Rove and the whore media "gored" him out of the gate. I'm sure many don't want to hear this, but it was quite obvious to some of us.

[Crunchy Frog]

19. Amen n/t

[blackowl]

2. It's the voting machines, idiot.

[BlueEyedSon]

3. No, it's that the fools in the red states have been indocrinated to think

that this is about culture. It is in fact an ECONOMIC war. And they are losers like the rest of us.

[President Jesus]

7. I agree with that, but that does back my point.

Whatever the sinister overriding motive may be is up for discussion. BUT, what is driving these folks to the polls IS culture. They don't give a shit about facts, war, or even economics.

[papau]

8. True - The GOP sells "be a rebel"- "resist the control of secular Liberals

As if we have control .....

They run against Hollywood - and win.

[Frangible]

6. Culture?

The only cultural issue that influences the election was the "I HATE FAGS" hick vote factor. (not surprisingly, all of the south) Appearently, homophobia was more important to America than an illegal war, health care, jobs, civil rights, etc. Sad.

[President Jesus]

10. 'Fag-hating' passed in eleven state referenda

and not all of those were 'hick' states.

I'm not justifying any of this...I'm simply trying to understand why these people would vote for such a clearly incompetent, leader that sides against them time and again on economic issues.

Also, they view stem-cell research as a cultural issue. An abortion is always an implicit issue with these people.

[Warpy]

15. It's more complicated than that

It's god, guns, gays, grizzlies and girls. They own the nasty, vengeful god of the Hebrews, they adore their guns, they hate gays (although their rank and file really don't care about those civil unions in Yankeeland as long as they don't call them MARRIED), they reasent the reintroduction of wildlife into "their" parkland and hunting areas, and they want to keep girls where they belong, as unpaid domestic servants, cranking out unwanted babies year after year (although they really don't want their own daughters to have to reach for the coathanger).

Mostly, it's a war against those wet behind the ears college boys who come into the offices at work and start pushing them around. This is the one part the Democrats have NEVER understood, and it's as deeply ingrained into the culture war as all of the first paragraph.

So sit back and wait for the disasters to start coming along. It's going to be a very rough ride, folks, and there's not much we can do about it. Only when disasters start hitting the smug empire builders in their stupid faces does change happen.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Yuo know what

the culture watriors will start to get it when jeesus is not gonna help them to get jobs

It will not help them to stop gov'ment from taking their kids in a draft to fight in foreing wars.... (

They may start to get it when home is repossssed

When they have problems putting food on that cute table, hallelujah!

They may get it when little suzzie gets boikned by little joe an she ends up pregnat and only choice, horror of horrors is an abortion with a coat hanger

Maybe then they will get it...

Maybe then

And truth be told right now I have only one thing to tell these praize Jeezus freaks, you made your own bed, don't cry to me

[President Jesus]

13. I think you're right.

We just may have to wait this one out until they get disillusioned with the GOP. It may not be long now that the GOP is going to claim some huge mandate and not be able to deliver on these implicit promises of social change.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

16. No they won't

You really don't understand the mindset of these people. They will be sad if their son dies in a war (no matter how invalid) but proud to have sent him. It is better then losing their guns. They actually thought that Kerry was going to take their ammo away this time. That is due to the exploitation of the NRA.

Many are already poor and work in the service industries. You can't outsource that type of job so they don't care. It's always been hard for them to make ends meet, and that tiny check they got back from the IRS helped pay the light bill that month. We know they have spent it many times over on gas, but they don't understand that. The gas prices are due to the evil Arabs in their eyes.

If their daughter gets pregnant out of wedlock they make the child quit school get married and raise it. That is what welfare is for.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. These are the same folks who BENEFITED

economically during the Clinton Years,


Look if they don't get it, then I say FUCK THEM! And I mean it, I will nto fight for these retards... not worth my time or my life.

[Lancey_Howard]

17. Culture War - Yep

You are correct - - this election, for conservatives, was largely about the "culture war" and (at least) THREE Supreme Court nominations. Sure.... in-your-face, in-your-wallet big-government socialism and the idea that you can selfishly walk into a voting place and vote for big government to confiscate even more money - - from your NEIGHBORS - - is repugnant to conservatives.

But protecting TRADITIONAL America and its families was paramount for conservatives. That meant assuring that the Supreme Court would hold a majority of justices who take the Constitution seriously, rather than justices who rule according to party agenda and the chic political correctness of the day. To this end, George W. Bush HAD to be reelected for the critical next four years.

This is what I hear from conservatives.