Democratic Leaders: Failure to Lead is Causing Party to Hemorrhage

[Chasing Dreams]

Last night I started a two-part poll here in attempt to see how the Democratic Party is holding up in the wake of Election Fraud 2004. The poll was simple, and hopefully you got a laugh out of Part 2. But I was trying to see whether the failure of Kerry, Edwards, and other national figures to lead on this issue was hurting the party.

Part 1:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x143531

Part 2:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x143550

While the polling sample so far is admittedly small, and there most assuredly is an anger bias against the Democratic National Leadership in this forum, the results demonstrate that Democratic Party affiliation is hemorrhaging. From Part 1, we can see that about 75% were Dems on November 2, 15% were independents, 5% were Greens, and a couple of votes went to the other choices.

Part 2 asked about your affiliation now, including three Democratic options. Democratic Party support has been cut by more than half, and is in danger of falling below 30% in the poll. Meanwhile, Green Party support is surging, rising from 5% to close to 40%. There is little change, and certainly not a significant difference, in the choices for Independent, Republican , Libertarian, and Other across the two polls.

As I have said before on other threads, I don't understand the calculus of Kerry, Edwards, and most of the Democratic Leadership. I guess they are figuring that they don't want to damage future prospects, and if they challenge the election results and aren't viewed sympathetically, they are finished politically. However, as the polls here are beginning to show, if they do nothing, Dems will leave the Party in droves.

John Kerry: Yes, it seems like you are "damned if you do and damned if you don't". But that calculus is wrong: you're certainly damned if you continue to wring your hands -- we won't vote for you next time -- but you just might come out smelling like roses if you LEAD. THERE IS STILL TIME TO GO TO OHIO AND DO YOUR JOB, AS PROMISED, TO MAKE SURE OUR VOTES ARE COUNTED. GO FOR IT!

[cornermouse]

1. He won't do it.

Somewhere between his Vietname era activism and now he changed. Or maybe the change is due to the aging process. I don't know. I just know that he didn't live up to our expectations or his own self-professed billing.

[Chasing Dreams]

2. I agree with your conclusion. Do you think

the Democratic Party is self-destructing, or is this a temporary phenomenon?

[Higans]

10. It's about 08 also. Getting a fair election is Nessasary

This isn't just about this election, It is about the next one too. It's about 06 and 08 and 10. This is about our children's Children. If election reform is not completed No one may ever have the right to vote again.

It's so obvious a cause. we need paper trails and real Auditing. I'm doing this for you and your children. I'm doing this for my birth Mother who I haven't scene since I was born. Thats what this is about.

The truth is this. For the last 3 elections if not more the computer ballot boxes have been rigged. Large scale rigged. If this is not obvious to you, your not paying attention. Even if I can't get a fair game this time, I want a fair game next time. Thousands of people around the world are protesting.

the constitution grants All Humans the right to vote. not just the two or three who control the central tabulators. The reason it was not fixed in 04 after 2000 is because no one said anything after 2000. The only way it will ever get fixed by 06 and 08 is if we stand up and say something NOW.

Do the people of this country ever want their right to vote? I'm starting to wonder. So far Crowds are showing up in the 100's at multiple state capitals. I'm going now. I hope all the peace loving people join me there.

I :heart U Human Race. Happy Holidays.

[Goldeneye]

3. I'm not sure DU is a representative sample

I agree that our leadership right now is god awful...but I'm not convinced all democrats feel this way.

[Chasing Dreams]

5. I'm not convinced either, but all it takes is for 10% of Democrats

to switch to the Green Party to cause "permanent" minority status. I use quotes here to denote that this will not last forever--only until Greens, wavering democrats, and moderate Republicans form a new Majority party.

[Goldeneye]

9. Sounds good to me, but how many elections will we lose to the republicans

before that happens? I honestly believe we can save our party, without doing this, but it would talk a lot of work. We'd have to convince tons of people to write to party leaders to change or get out...

[mulethree]

12. especially here in the election forum

we're 6 weeks past the election, the only people here are the
people convinced the surrender was an error. So of course we all
think the leadership is bad.

There are lots of forums here for stuff thats not election-related, tey general discussion or politics forums.

[electropop]

4. Kerry killed his presidential hopes on Nov 3

He lost his base forever the day he betrayed us. The only thing that can save him is if it turns out by some unlikely miracle that he actually has been running an underground investigation and comes out with it, doing serious damage to Repubs everywhere.

[politicasista]

14. He should have not conceded on Nov 3

That would send a message that he will be somewhat instead of leaving people hanging. I have to agree with Jesse, his concession (though not leagaly binding) did somewhat betray the trust of us voters. Now many Americans have accept that the fact the Smirky won fair and square.

[LittleClarkie]

16. Been in touch with the base? Or do you feel you represent all of them?

What is his base? The ones who supported him because he was the candidate, or the ones who supported him from the primaries on? The ones who are now Monday morning quarterbacking? Or the ones who still have his back.

Can you point me to a poll that shows he's lost his base forever? Or are you basing your perception on this place. I don't think we are representative of the Dems as a whole.

Not all of us in the base feel betrayed. We have not been lost forever. Some of us are just beginning. This is a very good man. And even if he is conducting an investigation, we may not see the fruit of it for some years. It took 4 to do in the BCCI I'm told.

I've been reading the Globe bio. There are so many things this man has done in his life that have gone against the political grain. I still can't figure out why some people think everything he does is for political reasons. He's gotten himself into some real political trouble over the years. He's gone after popular people in his own party. He's been pressured. He took on the POW/MIA issue that NO ONE wanted to touch. I don't see the political dividends in any of it. In fact, he's often slowed or stunted his progress toward a position he's obviously wanted all his life.

In short (I gotta be kidding), if you would speak for yourself and not for the "base" as a whole, this member of the "base" would surely be much obliged.

[Pharaoh]

17. DEAN had the base

and still does............

He will be the one to start a new party.

If they don't let us have the DNC they will sorely regrett it....
:dem:

[fshrink]

6. Like I said

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x144564#144592

[GOPFighter]

7. Here's where I'm at

Over the years RW groups have done a superb job of demonizing liberals, gays, gun control advocates, minorities, abortion rights supporters, etc., in the minds of too many Americans. The Democratic Party has not found a way to counter this. The Democratic Party must either find a way to turn this around or jettison these issues as key issues, in other words, move to the right and become the Republican-lite party. I'll be honest here, I would prefer having a Republican-lite Democratic party in power than George Bush and his fascist-leaning thugs.

I know I'll be slammed for this view, but IMO, the current neo-con, fascist-leaning Republican Party is the gravest threat our country has ever faced. The longer they are in power, the greater the chance this country will end up as a permanent plutocracy/theocracy with horrific consequences for our kids and grandkids. If the only way to defeat this threat is for the Democratic party to move right, so be it. Many of us, including myself, will switch to another party - possibly the Greens, which will finally allow us to advocate populist/progressive ideas without being attenuated by a nervous Democratic Party.

It's sad that liberals like me and the Democratic Party allowed the RWers to define who we are and what we stand for. America was once a nation of haves and have nots. It was the liberals, progressives and populists who fought for legislation that gave rise to the great middle class that allowed a huge percentage of Americans to enjoy a comfortable, even somewhat carefree life. I find it confounding that the RWers have been able to turn so many Americans against us in their quest to put an end to the middle class and turn us back into a nation of haves and have-nots.

[Hamoth]

8. Let them leave

Here's why:

If a reformed democratic party has some loss before the reforms can be implimented, its actually not that big a deal. A reformed democratic party should be able to make NEW democrats from the people who are turning 18, or just plain don't give a crap and think it's all corrupt abstraction.

If we can reform the party to bring a new and revolutionary vision to america, and make news of the process, sell it as the R's did with their "contract" and make a fresh overature tot he American people, we can lose some of the old guard and still replenish our ranks with countless others who have been marginalized by the swaggering rhetoric and partisan bitterness of the nation's dialog.

With firm ideology and a little media savy, we can recoup our losses.

And a bolstered green and liberatarian parties will only be allies in our fight against the corrupt GOP machine.

[Peace Patriot]

11. Jan. 6 would be a good moment to re-register as a Green

If they don't come forward to challenge this fraudulent election, and to defend our right to vote, then I think Jan. 6 is the day for a massive re-registering as Greens, in protest.

Jan. 6 Congress is supposed to certify the election, last step to Bush inauguration. At that time, in '00, black House members approached the Senate with their petition NOT to certify, needing only one signature, and NOT ONE Senator, Dem or Rep, rose to help them (the famous scene in "F 9/11"). Will the Dems repeat this betrayal?

They are NEVER going to win another national election, with the voting system in rightwing Republican hands (source code to electronic vote tabulators held as secret and proprietary by Bush donors!--jeez!), nor will we ever see a progressive Congress again, if this election stands unchallenged, and if the grass roots don't get election rules changed locally--a) paper trail for every vote, b) open source code (Congress isn't going to do it!).

Unfortunately, Jesse Jackson has given them an out--they can endorse his idea of a Constitutional amendment for the right to vote. (never happen, forget it).

Anyway, if I'm going to do any more political organizing in my life time--and I do intend to get, a) paper trail, and b) open source code, everywhere I can, for our children's sake, before I die--I am not going to do it with or for the Democratic Party, unless they come forward now. As of Jan. 6, it's all over between them and me (44 years of loyally voting for Democrats).

This is not the first betrayal (the Vietnam War was that--or maybe back a bit further, failure to identify JFK's killers). But it will be the Democrats' last opportunity to shove my vote, my donations, and my volunteer energy back in my face.

I have been extremely reluctant to criticize Kerry and the Dems, or anyone involved in the campaign--first of all, because we WON, actually. (What's to criticize?) It worked! Our compromises and cooperation (between grass roots & mainstream Dems) resulted in a fabulous victory.

Also, I am very, very wary of the Left ripping itself to shreds. (Germany 1933.)

But what I've come to realize--and can't abide--is the Dems complicity in permitting this blatantly fraudulent election SYSTEM to be put in place, with only the faintest of objections (by a few). That was their bottom-line job, after the debacle of '00--to make sure that our votes would be counted this time. And they promised to do so time and again, even on Election night (Edwards' statement, before Kerry's concession).

Their failure on this has been catastrophic. Until they acknowledge it, and challenge this election, and start fighting for our most fundamental right, we cannot count on them for ANYTHING and in fact they are worse than useless as our advocates. They are dragging us down, and they are dragging some of the less astute Left with them.

Down, down, down to defeat--again and again.

So we won't be losing a thing by re-registering Green. And we have much to gain, both as to associating with the Greens themselves, who are great people, and as to helping them form coalitions and build up the numbers--in a party whose platform we can really believe in.

We can still vote for Dems, selectively, if we wish. We won't get to nominate Dem candidates, but who cares? The War Party within the Dem Party will never relinquish control.

And if we make such a defection big enough--with the Dems losing members, donations and volunteers--we CAN affect them, and maybe the result will be a Green-Left-Dem coalition party (workers, minorities, women, the poor, environmentalists, anti-globalists, human rights groups, war veterans, small businesses, the elderly, etc.) (Who else is there, really--I mean besides the super-rich?) (We ARE the majority!) (...maybe the Christian right, but there is also a very significant Christian left).

Go Greens!

[Greybnk48]

13. Register Republican!

I think we should all register as Repugs and screw up their primaries by voting for the biggest bonehead on their ticket--the new Dixiecrats.

[pat_k]

15. Our leaders have to stop worrying about the "effect on the Party" or ...

Our leaders have to stop worrying about the "effect on the Party" an action will have, or whether some action might be political suicide, and start just doing the right thing.

Silence is complicity.

That is the message to send your representatives. Tell them to do the right thing and Declare Your Intent regarding Presidential Electors.