So much optimism now gone

[politicasista]

I am glad I didn't watch the electors cast their votes, however, something is VERY wrong with this picture. I was browsing yesterday about Kerry's letter. There was so much promise with the letter and the lawsuit, that something good was going to happen today. I guess the letters and lawsuit didn't make it in time.

I keep saying to myself that it's just not fair. Why does wrong instead of right always win in the end? What do bad things happen to decent people?

Unfortunately what Smirky wants, Smirky gets. He has the MSM, House, Senate and everything else all in control. Anyway you look at it, he will leave the WH in disgrace.

Unfortunately, Smirky doesn't know what it's like to lose, neither do his supporters. They don't know what it's like to cry all night long and be depressed about the future of democracy.

So many have moved on since November 3, I will have to now that we are stuck with this man the next four years.

[madison2000]

1. This isn't the end yet

I think it would have taken a terrorist attack to stop the electors from voting for Bush.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

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[jamboi]

15. Not! n/t

[Freddie Stubbs]

3. Actually he does know what it is like to lose

He lost a race for a Congressional seat in 1978.

[Yupster]

63. I'm sure it hit him hard

when Clinton beat his dad in 92 also.

[BR_Parkway]

4. I have to wonder, with all the knowledgeable people involved

if the timing of the letters and suits is something that they have working in their favor. I can't beleive that they were doing all this and that they didn't plan for it (recounts and such) to go just the way it has so far

[IAMREALITY]

5. ARE YOU KIDDING ME???????

We Have EVERY REASON to be excited right now!!!!!!

[Jack_Dawson]

6. What are the reasons?

Or reason?

[IAMREALITY]

9. Just Browse The Whole First Page Of This Forum n/t

[pointsoflight]

10. Here are just a couple from today alone:

--We apparently have affadavits (plural) from people who say they were involved in the actual vote rigging in Ohio.

--A Triad representative was seen tampering with a central tabulator just this past Friday, and we have a witness that will testify to this.

This is in addition to Blackwell's "lockdown," which constitutes a case of prima facie fraud according to the Ohio constitution.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

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[seito]

8. Thank You n/t

[Quakerfriend]

14. Don't lose faith

Remember, truth is on our side!!

[New Earth]

17. lose faith?

she never had any to begin with.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

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[Kellis]

24. Pardon me?

It just might be time for a new political website if all you have to say is "Not much progress has been made".Especially when CONTRIBUTING members here at DU DO think this is "progress made".

[IAMREALITY]

26. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

First Off I can't see why anyone would be really disappointed that Ohio Electors cast their votes. It doesn't change a THING, and I know speaking for myself I never thought for a SECOND it wouldn't happen today.

And if you are to leave us over this:

:hi:

[insane_cratic_gal]

32. Just think of it this way

It may not change the outcome of this race, but if fraud is finally proven. It will turn Bush&INC upside down.

For me at least, I want fair balanced elections, I want voter reform, I want my right to vote to be protected by the constituion at the very least. I don't ever want a rigged election again that has happend the last 2 elections. Twice in 8 years is far too long. You can't give up on those ideas, not ever. Nothing in this country was ever won by people setting aside their willingness to fight for these ideals. If you give up you give power to their Chimps of the world. For me that is simply not acceptable.

Even if we can't change the outcome, I'm still holding to a small amount of hope that we can. We can prove our case, and there is justice in that. Don't forget In the consitution "We the people can over throw the President."

[marzipanni]

80. Yes, at the least we can expect Bushco to be exposed

and his lame duck presidency will become a cooked goose presidency.
The "morality" platform will be found to have been full of termites and dry-rot!

America,tell me which is more damaging to our country, a few blow jobs in the oval office, or a continuous SNOW JOB in the oval office?

[FredStembottom]

42. Newbie begins to see a regular cast of characters

....that do the same things over and over.
Which is good. I can "sort" better each day i'm here. And, clearly, the momentum is on the side of great optimism today!
:-)

[SammyWinstonJack]

47. You've been here for ten days

and you are able to judge and "sort" through the "regular cast of characters" who "do the same things over and over?" :wow: :eyes:

[ClassWarrior]

61. Welcome Fred.

:hi:

NGU.

[Truman01]

45. Do you think we will see * inauguarated on Jan 20? nt

[bones_7672]

68. Barring a killer ateroid, yes. n/t

[genieroze]

87. If he is.

:puke:

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

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[New Earth]

69. why?

[ebayfool]

41. "be quiet" So - we should only be toting YOUR party line?

Doesn't your little "be quiet" actually speak the opposite to your
"... where people can actually be themselves and have feelings about politics and not be ridiculed into toting the party line."

Maybe that's not a bad idea, since you insist - "be quiet"!
(just toting your party line, sweets!)

[saddemocrat]

44. no

Everyone should be entitled to speak their mind...without fear of ridicule or reprimand.

This includes me and YOU....you guys just don't get it. You are alienating parts of your potential DU base with your extremism and ridicule.

[Kellis]

46. Hey listen this is the DU

Not the Stupid U.You can say whatever ya' like.Feel free in fact.We at DU know what we see when we see it.Reference the 'without fear of being ridiculed or reprimanded" but don't be surprised when DUers disagree and call a spade a spade.

[IAMREALITY]

48. Everyone DOES have a right to speak their mind.

Some have a right to speak weakness, depression, and sadness as a HABIT, and others have the right to voice their warranted aggression to such posts.

See? Everyone can talk just fine.....

Now if those defeatest posts were deleted each time they were posted, then you would have a right to complain about entitlement.

[saddemocrat]

78. no they don't

anyone who doesn't agree with you is automatically a freeper or 'depressed'

get real

[IAMREALITY]

83. Not True At All

I have NEVER called anyone a freeper.

And those that suffer from severe depression don't need me to call them out on it, they do a fine job of it themselves.

And I still see your posts here, so I guess that DOES mean you can post your depression, and I see mine and others posts here, which means we CAN post our dissatisfaction to it.

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[SammyWinstonJack]

50. I get it.

I get what you're saying and I couldn't agree more.

[politicasista]

54. I did (and still) have faith, Faye

Why pessmism towards me?

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

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[politicasista]

55. I don't have a moralebasher attiutude

I am just tired of wrong instead of right always winning. Gee.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

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[OmmmSweetOmmm]

12. This is One of The Most Exciting and Important Days!!!! Please!!!

We have the Conyer Hearings, with Incredible testimony, and Arnebeck filed suit! It Ain't Over Yet!!!!!!!!!!!!

[keepthemhonest]

19. yeah yeah

this is a great day.Nothing bad happening today.Only history being made with the Arnebeck lawsuit and other wonderful things.I don't think people on this board really expected them to stop Blackwell from doing their dirty deed today.

[ebayfool]

13. You give up too easy. n/t

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

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[pointsoflight]

16. Stopping the casting of the electoral votes was never expected!

They requested it, knowing it was a long shot. But they certainly weren't putting all of their eggs into that basket. A second set of electoral votes can be cast if the recount shows Kerry won. Congress still has to accept the votes. And any concrete proof of fraud can turn the whole thing upside down.

[lonestarnot]

18. NOT NOT NOT! DO SOME MORE READING!

[pointsoflight]

20. To reiterate, this has been a GREAT day so far.

We reportedly have affadavits from people who say they were involved in the actual voting rigging. And note that that's plural--affadavits.

We also have a witness who is willing to testify that a Triad company official was tampering with a central tabulator. (Funny, huh, that Blackwell calls for a lockdown, yet people are allowed on a tabulator.)

We also have Blackwell's lockdown itself, which is a prima facie case of fraud according to Ohio state code.

All indications are that we have alot to work with going forward from here. And not just statistical arguments and anomalies in the numbers, but actual witnesses!!!

[Kellis]

21. Hear Hear!

pointsoflight Cheers to You.Now THATS a Duer for ya'!

Start a thread with that title my friend!Thats what we need today.

[zimba]

22. Expect a long haul

and I dont think it could be anything else. The war has just begun. The media is entrenched and its going to take time to break through. There is no such thing as quitting if you honestly believe the election was stolen. How could there be. You fight a day then get ready for the next.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

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[Kellis]

so subtle aren't they?

[ClassWarrior]

27. More doom and gloom, "sistah??"

No sad smileys or fake Ebonics??

LOL

NGU.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

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[New Earth]

29. THANK YOU!

[proudtobeadem]

31. Thank You!! I have been dying to say that for WEEKS!!!

[electropop]

33. Hold on, sista!

Today is a great day for democracy. Do you think it's coincidence that Arnebeck and Conyers are both there taking action? They knew the 'vote' would go ahead; they also know they can do plenty to invalidate it, and we will eventually prevail. For one thing, Conyers, Arnebeck, and the others are beginning a process of discovery and investigation which will implicate many officials with felonies. We will overturn this, though it may take quite a while. Relax, participate, and enjoy the spectacle of Blackwell's meltdown.

[ClassWarrior]

35. Save your breath. "sistah" seems intent on being miserable...

...no matter what happens. Mohammed could come down on a cloud and reveal all the fraud in prime-time, and "sistah" would be posting this:

:scared:

NGU.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

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[ClassWarrior]

40. Well, I don't want to jump to conclusions...

...but it appears that way, doesn't it?

NGU.

[Carolab]

36. Oh, please

did you think that the letters would do it?

This is a fight. It's not getting settled today, all nice and neat and tied up with a little bow.

Have some patience and some guts.

[4democracy]

38. This is FAAAAR from being the end of this, they are just getting started

[marzipanni]

84. We would love to tear the bow, ribbon, and wrappers off

but inside the big box is a slightly smaller box, and inside that another and so on. So far only another box has been revealed each day but we know we're getting closer to what's inside. Who likes to open presents in slow motion? ;)

[keepthemhonest]

37. here is the hawaii link to get your hopes up again

http://www.leinsdorf.com/how_kennedy_won_hawaii.htm

[wlubin]

43. If the Ohio recount ends up doing what we hope it is going to do, even if

it does not change the results of the farce, it will be better than a flat out victory. The voting system will be made legit, and hence no repub will ever be elected again. Make no mistake about it, repubs have been elected in the past only as a result of stealing.

[Truman01]

49. The biggest problem are the eternal optimists on this board who

don't know when it is over. We should still look for fraud, but we should not expect these lawsuits to overturn anything. If we got exactly what we asked for the best we can hope for is to have the Ohio slate set aside and * wins 266 to 252.

I know you guys don't like to hear that, but that is the reality of this situation. We are no longer on a search and rescue mission, we are on a search and recovery mission. This election is over, we need to fix the process so we can have confidence in the next elections and those to come.

TC

[Kellis]

51. SO....

in ohter words "Get Over It".....LOL.

[Truman01]

53. No don't get over it, work on election fraud, work on the dem

message, but stop with creating false, impossible hope that will do nothing more than demoralize our base as it becomes painfully obvious that their hopes are hopeless.

TC

[Kellis]

58. LOL.

wow you're really ramming that chant home aren't ya' Tru?Seems to be a theme ever since you started posting at DU.LOL

Cheer up buddy.

[Truman01]

65. That's true, and every time you post its a new pie in the sky

theory about how Kerry will be inaugurated on Jan 20. So far, I've been against Bev (I think she is making a movie), I've been against Madasen as a crackpot, and against this idea that Ohio's vote is going to get reversed. Like I said, if you would like to lay a bet, feel free.

Criticize me all you want but it's not a crime to be a realist. I don't know about others but I don't like getting my hopes up just to have them dashed.


TC

[ClassWarrior]

66. Nobody's criticizing "realism," or even "skepticism."

We're criticizing people who are constantly making depressing comments in the face of positive, optomistic news. The better the news, the worse they're depressed. "sistah" is a classic case of this. Apparently, according to another poster's comments, so are you. So please don't put words in our mouths.

NGU.

[Truman01]

67. I beg your pardon, but I am criticized anytime I don't shout

rah rah to the latest and greatest theory on how Kerry won and will be inaugurated this Jan 20th. I have read every lawsuit I can find, made helpful comments anytime I could, but when I see bs I've called it bs. I was the one that said Bev's lawsuit was just a show. This one they haven't released, but the best possible result is that Ohio's electors are disavowed and that leaves us with 266 chimp to 252 Kerry and the same result.

I am simply stating the obvious: We need to continue to work toward a transparent voting system, complete with auditable paper trails. We need to analyze and fix our message, and we need to extinguish any voter fraud or suppression we find. However, there is not a snowballs chance in hell that Kerry will be declared the winner here and now.

That's my opinion. Like it or not.

TC

[ClassWarrior]

75. Well, I don't see that from any poster in this thread...

...so I guess you'll have to go find your critics somewhere else.

NGU.

[Kellis]

71. oh silly Truman

you are confusing the matter.That isn't at all what we are talking about my friend.Your generalization of what is going on here at DU since Nov 2 is telling of your mind set and more than a little insulting to those who are making a difference in this investigation.
We are talking about Democracy and Justice here my friend.

Your reaction to it from the beginning has been "Get Over it" & "Move On"."Your Wasting your time."
Referencing Bev and Madsen does little to back up your gloom and doom attitude since your very 1st post.

:)

[Truman01]

74. At least you are friendly in your sarcasm....

I'll let it go at that, the legal remedies from here are NEAR Zero. I wish you and the investigation well. I've NEVER said to move on, let it go, or that we were wasting our time. I have said that Kerry is not going to be inaugurated, the election is not going to be overturned, we don't have any PROOF of our allegations, and that wishing it so isn't going to make it so.

I suppose the proof is in waiting until Jan 20th. Please prove me wrong. I would like nothing better to be wrong. But as one of the guys responsible for the 2000 Gore Court fight, and someone who was contacted to work on these court proceedings I have a pretty good feel for what we are up against, and as far as I have seen, we have nothing.

TC

[ClassWarrior]

59. Hey everybody, our hopeless hopes are hopeless!!

So saith Truman.

NGU.

[IAMREALITY]

60. Class, I love ya man!

:toast:

[ClassWarrior]

62. You rock, Iam.

:yourock:

NGU.

[plasticsundance]

57. Arnebeck said it all on cspan

I remember when someone at DU pointed me in the direction of listening to Arnebeck when he appeared on Washington Journal.

Arnebeck said it all right there, and Conyers has been echoing the same sentiment. It's not just about overturning a fraudulent election, but they're going to demand that Kerry did indeed win.

Unlike Florida ... this time the legal action will not be subjective interpretation of the law, because this election will show empirically that there was election fraud. Arnebeck and Conyers are not going to let this go, and they have stated that they will be patient to go through the legal process, and that means going through the legal cartwheels, which will take time.

People are going down with this investigation, and it's going to expose the Republican behemoth for what it is, an unchained and corrupted power gulping machine. Sooner or later, this investigation, is going to force people to see what has been going on during these past three elections, including 2002.

These legal cases will set precedent, and they'll be more than one or two. It will force the legislative process in how to conduct oversight of an election.

[pgh_dem]

52. an eternally optimistic idea

What if....
There was something...like an organization, a part of the government itself, where crimes related to elections were investigated, charges drawn up, involved people indicted, trials, convictions...the whole nine yards.
It could be staffed with lawyers, detectives, analysts, who would basically be superheroes of these laws.
It could even have a superhero name to...something catchy...we could call it 'The Justice Department'.
Wouldn't that be SOMETHING?
I wonder what it would take to create something like that?
It could be just the thing to fix the process like you suggest.

[politicasista]

56. Just lock or delete this thread

I don't want to cause any trouble here.

[troubleinwinter]

70. Oh, but I think you do.

Go ahead and email the Admin and ask that it be deleted, if not.

[politicasista]

72. No I don't I am peaceful person.

I drink Kool-aid sometimes and I need to vent. (I have to stop believing everything I read in some threads).

[ClassWarrior]

76. Like your own?

NGU.

[buzzard]

81. Politacasista please read Michael Moores letter it applies to many

here who have lost heart.

This is just an excerpt

" As victims we can't stop asking ourselves what we did wrong. We can't seem to grasp that they will keep hitting us and beating us as long as we keep sticking around and asking ourselves what we are doing to deserve the beating."


Another excerpt

"First, you must admit you are a victim. Then, you must declare the state of affairs unacceptable. Next, you must promise to protect yourself and everyone around you that is being victimized. You don't do this by responding to their demands, or becoming more like them, or engaging in logical conversation, or trying to persuade them that you are right. You also don't do this by going catatonic and resigned, by closing up your ears and eyes and covering your head and submitting to the blows, figuring its over faster and hurts less if you don't resist and fight back.


Instead, you walk away. You find other folks like yourself, 57 million of them, who are hurting, broken, and beating themselves up. You tell them what you've learned, and that you aren't going to take it anymore. You stand tall, with 57 million people at your side and behind you, and you look right into the eyes of the abuser and you tell him to go to hell. Then you walk out the door, taking the kids and gays and minorities with you, and you start a new life. The new life is hard. But it's better than the abuse.



I don't agree with his whole argument because I think if the election results were fair the will of the people would be reflected, that John Kerry was elected President. As a Canadian I have followed much of John Kerry's work over the years and I find him to be an immensely compassionate individual, that doesn't need the spotlight to affirm his every move. I believe he weighs every decision carefully and might come off as not always on message (flip/flop) but in my opinion that is a good thing, the world is complex and decisions made in haste are often regretted.


Now arrest that SOB Blackwell

[marions ghost]

73. Yes, This is the heart of it... Vote Protection

We are going to need PERMANENT VOTE PROTECTION in this country.

I've stopped calling it just voting reform, I'm calling it Voting Protection from now on. You can fix everything in theory, but then you have to enforce it. The Justice Dept has failed miserably in it's duty to protect us from this nightmare.

The long range goals will take time. Anyone who can't see beyond today isn't going to be in this for the long haul. Psista, take a break and look at it again with new eyes after awhile. Nobody here can help you today.

[politicasista]

79. I will take a break, but you guys don't have to mean about it.

Like you all, I want our country back.

[saddemocrat]

82. don't take em seriously

They apparently have too much time on their hands and are out of their psych drugs.

I think we have to work now to start accepting the election misresaults and throw our effort behind election reform. We haven't learned a thing since 2000...actually, the repugs learned how to me more manipulative while we sat back and didn't do enough to reform our election laws...

Your feelings are normal...blow these people off and move forward and look to what we can change.

[The Doctor.]

77. ROTFLMAO! I almost Peed myself...

[NJCher]

85. I can't believe this thread

I've been busy all day--mostly with election fraud actions, like gathering signatures and getting a letter sent showing our protest from yesterday to our NJ electors. And I come here to see the latest before I rush off to my evening class and I see this thread and I think, "Oh no, another disappointment for us."

So I read the entire thread and find out it's some doom and gloomer crying in their beer. And over something about which, as the above poster remarked, no one expected anything otherwise! Of course a board of republican electors is going to vote the cheaters back in. To paraphrase bush somewhat, "That's what republicans do."

The damn thread should be deleted. I'm ticked. Waste of fricking time. It sets up a false premise.


Cher

[mattclearing]

86. Cry all night and be depressed? What's the matter with you?

eom

[Imagevision]

88. Lawsuit made it in time --way before 12:00 noon Relax!