Will a leader PLEASE stand up and tell us what to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

We are a leaderless group. We all care. We all are doing what we think will help expose this. But we are fragmented. There is an extraordinary energy here. But it is not led and it is not focused to create the most synergy possible.

No Kerry, No Edwards (please, I know they have their own strategy), No DLC, No DNC, No Minority Leadership (please, I know there are those who are trying, I do not mean to minimize any efforts), No Moore, No MoveOn, etc, etc.

In no way do I mean people aren't trying. They are. My point is that we have no one to focus us, motivate us, lead the way, set the agenda. So that thousands can speak one message and make our voice louder.

We are a headless movement or party.

Please let me repeat, I am not trashing anyone I've mentioned. And probably, because of the nature of DU, it is not meant to be led.

But, if someone stood up, with the credentials among our ranks or a spokesman from outside -- someone with the knowledge to know what to do, I would follow.

[liam97]

1. For now

get a senator to challenge the election

[msongs]

2. Not gonna get any help from most elected Dems on this.....

have your heard from any aside from John Conyers? The Dems should be leading the recount assault, not following the Greens or anyone else.
The Dems candidate got 50+ million votes and we should be leading the charge.

all you women and children get out of the lifeboats. John kerry is coming.......sheesh.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[Kolesar]

3. ummm....Dr. Dean?

He's my hero.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

6. Yes. It's like we fell for the trap from last time. "Don't be a sore

loser trap." When this time, much more than last, people should have been screaming "Hey, not so fast..we're not going ANYWHERE until we know everything is clear." At least then, the general public would have known everything was a mess. Now, only we know. I know it will happen, the truth will eventially emerge - if we can avoid the "get over it trap"

[jamboi]

4. Check PDAmerica.org . The Progressive Democratic Alliance seems 2 B

making a play for leadership.

[jamboi]

5. Greens, Jessie Jackson, Arnebeck, Sharpton, Conyers, also.We're gettin

g there.

[jamboi]

7. USVIP.org, and RedHandsMovement.com are leaders here at DU n/t

[Laura PourMeADrink]

9. I agree. I just wish they could all create a true coaltion and unite

under one spokesman, one voice. At least for now

[jamboi]

8. Here's another thread where USVIP.org is providing some leadership.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=151143#152448

[Laura PourMeADrink]

11. great -- just signed on. kick

[KoKo]

10. What you say, is the Truth of it...Think about it...why do YOU think we

are leaderless...draw your own conclusions..

[Laura PourMeADrink]

12. It's too depressing to think the way you are implying. That

the people we followed are in on it? or they don't give a shit? We are trying to be snuffed out completely? Give up?? I will never, ever, believe what happened was right. Never. And I will never stop trying to expose this.

[jamboi]

23. Agreed. I think they are being cautious because the average American

hasn't caught wind of this yet. I think we're starting to see a slow avalanche starting here. Let's see which other national leaders come on board now. The other thread I started tonight about the Dem Senate leadership starting to fight back hard on congressional oversight with forums like Conyers if they have to is a subtle clue that the Dems are preparing to fight. Just watch what happens...

[shance]

13. I hear what you are saying. You may find my answer cliche

I hope it makes some sense however.

Americans at large, I think we tend to look outside ourselves for the "answers", and/or the right choices that will solve everything, essentially in search of "salvation". Gosh knows Ive done it.

However to consistently look outside ourselves, which in this culture, we are both encouraged and conditioned to do just that, we lose the ability to take risks and learn to trust our own choices, and on another different level essentially lets us all off the hook for our own life and civic responsibility.

With that said, Im not ignoring your points or your post***

WE NEED LEADERS. AND we have them. Alot of them. Amazing, wonderful people who are taking the reins and are creating some effective, postitive change. However, as far as looking for what to do and taking responsibility for how we choose to take action in this world, in the end, its up to us to figure out what those choices are, not them.

This was a hard fact for me to swallow and some days is still difficult. But no matter how tough, its true.

We all would like some one to give us the answers. Don't you think they want the answers too? We really are all in this together. That is what we need to comprehend.

There is no one saviour, and no one leader. We are all the saviours and all the leaders, (depending on the choices we make).

With that said, there are many great people with incredible leadership skills and each has a significant part to offer.

More importantly there are ALL of us. And that in and of itself is an treasure chest of energy and resources if we pool them together in a communal type approach.

Right now we have a multitude of quality, passionate people, who are amazing leaders who are doing everything they can to create progress and change and we can certainly join with them. It is the Governor Deans, the Michael Moores, the Jesse Jacksons, the Jodi Evans, the Arianna Huffingtons, Helen Caldicott, Granny D. There are hundreds more. Of course we as women and others who are not Anglo, have not been as encouraged to step up to the plate and that needs to change. We need to start encouraging others who we think would be quality leaders to run for office.

Who says you are not a part of the leadership as well? You obviously want to do something productive. Thats a great start right there.

There are so many places to put our energy. And that can be overwhelming at times. If you can, take an issue and make it your pet issue and go from there. Sometimes the best place to look about where to make a difference is right in front of us, and it is probably locally.

Just a few thoughts.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

16. Thanks! I appreciate you! I am an project planner in my

real life. And I think when you do that for a long time it becomes second nature and you want to make sense of it all and organize it. I agree with all your fine points but what I was speaking specifically about was immediate leadership now -- to take control of all of our efforts and focus us on specific tasks. Maybe just imagining that if someone was in charge how much more of an impact we could make. If our leader said write a letter to the editor of NY Times and everyone on here actually did it -- I just know we could make a break in this whole election scam. A few letters here another few there get lost. And I still believe our biggest problem is that the vast majority of the general public democrats still know nothing about this.

[shance]

21. You bring up great points. That is where I wish there was a leader

as well that could organize things from the top down. Personally I think Howard Dean best exemplifies our leader these days, but that is simply my opinion.

I would imagine that until we have that, the best way to do it is through local Democratic offices (?), Democracy for America, (attending meetups and getting to know people inside the organizations), and other groups out there working for progressive politics as a whole.

[jamboi]

24. Idea: organize ourselves using our polls to vote for leaders. I tried to

organize some stuff and ran into a hail of fire, so I set it aside till a little later. But that idea could work. There are certainly leaders here like yourself who are suggesting answers. We just lack focus, and maybe making a little campaign we could identify the leaders and let people follow whichever solutions they are most comfortable with. What do you think?

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Not to sound trite

You know how many action alerts are posted on DU every day? DO YOU write a letter when you see one apear? Do you check the activism boad? We are 60K, what happens when all of us write a letter to the MSM?

Problem is, most people are waiting for those mythical leaders, many of us have told peoople asking for them... you are that leader. We are at the begiining of a hard long slog... but the movement is out there... in teh streets, in groups of ten, or fifty, or three hundred... but they are out there.

Some people ARE stepping up to the plate... how bout you?

[KoKo]

20. The puzzle still is, just as with Gore...where are the other members of

our party taking the lead. Where is the DNC? Why is McAuliff not out there bringing these discoveries to a discussion? It's always left to the Black Caucus to question our voting. They can't do it alone without help from the "Powers behind the DNC/DLC."

We weren't helped in 2000 and Kerry saw that. I'm kind of giving up that it's a "strategy" with him. It's beginning to look like a conspiracy..of silence. There's no way if this was a Democratic win in Ohio and all these incidents were coming out that the Repugs wouldn't be filling the airwaves day and night and their columnists would be all over it.

Where is our liberal media? Mostly silent except for some "Move On" articles and a bare mention of "Voting Machine" problems that need to be addressed to standardize our system.

Where is Salon Magazine, the Nation, American Progress? Some mention but nothing like 2000.

Either the incidents in Ohio are not correct and folks think it's much ado about nothing...or what? Those voting machines should have been impounded but where do you get a court order to do it. Blackwell seems to have all the power and the Democrats don't want to challenge him, just as they haven't challenged the Chimp. How could we have not found a TOP LIBERAL Civil Rights Lawyer who could blow this open? Because they don't exist anymore. There were very few persons of color at our Raleigh Protest on Sunday. Maybe two... What does that mean? They've given up. It's hard for me to keep going after years of this now. Going to meetings, sendin e-mails, faxing phoning. It hasn't worked. Doesn't mean we give up but where is the help?

Somethings wrong with this Arnebeck lawsuit, I think. The evidence didn't hold up...or he was called off. He was so determined and ready to go...and all of a sudden Jesse Jackson seemed to take the whole proceeding over. I thought they were going for the Civil Rights Voter Disenfranchisement issue rather than fraud when I watched Conyers hearings last week. It seemed the interest had switched from Arnebeck to testimonies of Voter intimidation with lack of machines causing terrible lines and hardship. Then Arnebeck delays his lawsuit until this morning after Kerry sent out a press release last night.

Maybe the Dem Leadership doesn't want to talk about fraud because they know it could effect some of their own dealings? What else can we think? It would blow apart so much fraud going back to 2000 Election that it would bring up the issue that Gore is really the President?

Then you'd have to go after Jeb and Florida and Ohio and all of it. It would open up such a huge rotting carcass that maybe no one wants to touch it. In the meantime the vote fraud and disenfranchisment will live on through 2006 and 08 and forever. Nothing will be fixed.

It's all too odd. Media complicity, our own liberals complicit and we are the "fringe folks." It's ups to us to keep on this...but until we can do our OWN INVESTIGATIONS what can be exposed? We don't have the power to find a lawyer who will help us..there don't seem to be any with some real Government experience and the will to expose it all.

:shrug: I don't know what we do except keep throwing rocks. The Media Lockdown though is what's so suspicious...even though they are owned...what else is at play. Passing up a big story for ratings in the Print and TV Media..is nothing I've ever heard of in my reading of the history of the press or my own experience..

[shance]

25. You know Im with you on this. I guess right now we have to value what

we are doing and know its important and continue to do it and attract others to get involved. I think we need to be tabling nationwide about election reform in every city right now, and have been trying to get that speerheaded here in L.A.

Im pretty cynical unfortunately when it comes to national because they are so disconnected from what is really going on. There are Dems that are involved in election fraud as well, however, I cannot figure out the avoidance of the issue of electronic voting like has been seen with the Kerry campaign.

However, there are the few leaders, like Conyers, Kennedy, Byrd, who actively keep connected with America at large and are not as encapsulated and disconnected as some of the less popular Congressional leaders.

[Stop Shrub]

14. amen

please read post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x142725

we have to organize!

[garybeck]

15. I nominate Jesse Jackson

I don't know how to say this without sounding racist, but I think this is one of those times where playing the "race card" is warranted.

Where's Johnny Cochran when you need him?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

18. You know the sad part though, the African American democrats that

I have spoken to, knew immediately that the election was a scam but are oddly complacent. They have a defeatest but non-emotional attitude about the whole thing. They are not angry, which surprised me. I worked for JJ in 1988. He has so much charisma -- when he walked into a room it was palpable.

[Griffy]

22. works for me, he always wanted o be he next ML King nt

[Griffy]

17. THEY HAVE.. they said PROTEST... watch cspan hearing..

Jesse Jackson and members of congress have said it.. what are you waiting fo .. sirens?? January 6th.. BE IN WASHINGTON DC!!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

19. I work in DC-and will be there. Hope there are more people than

at the electors meeting in Ohio today (10)

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. SHHHH... YOU ARE THAT LEADER

By the way, YOU NEED TO WORK LOCALLY

What are you waiting for? AN INVITATION?

Now let me add what YOU CAN DO.

Orgamize marches

Go out into the streets

WEAR ORANGE... EVERY DAY... a black armband... be creative

WRITE TO THE MEDIA

GO to your local Democracy for America meeting to CONNECT.

And god dammit, join us in the streets... we need you.

Oh and speak, speak to people at every chance you get.

Talk to people.

Write

LEAD.

Mostly LISTEN, if you do, you will hear incredible stories, lady today, old lady, Holocaust survivor, we drove her to tears... because we were THERE in front of the Federal Court House with Signs...

[senegal1]

27. We need a functional strategy more than we need leadership

Functional Strategy Suggestion:

1. Broaden the message: We need to move closer to disadvantaged groups and to ignored groups (read bigger numbers of people) and get them to care. We can't do this by talking only about election fraud. Many of these groups care in an abstract way but are way too busy trying to get through everyday life to take action unless they get really really off or they feel threatened. We need to link election fraud with closer to home issues like the draft for students, like the budget deficit for struggling single parents, like disenfranchisement and ??? for minorities, like treatment of our soldiers and lack of health care for our kids for poor democratic and republicans (Kerry strategy here). We need to get people who are already unhappy -- we need to get them off. Then we need to get these people connected through their church, through their support groups, through student meetings... (some of the things that MoveOn did are excellent examples). We need to build a coalition -- not just hope that with enough evidence -- that when it is clear as the light of day people will finally care. They won't.

2. But these people still won't do anything because first inertia is hard to overcome and they want someone else to do it and second they have objected to issues before and seen nothing come of it so why waste the effort now. So we need to show that they are jumping on board with a winning ticket or with a whole lot of other folks who are ready to object strongly. Open to suggestions here...We need big guns to get on board -- we need to target people who are change makers -- how about Oprah??? Why isn't she off??? How about Jay Leno-- people who get the idea into the mainstream??? We also need to find the right republicans and get them on board.

3. We need to understand that history is full of situations where what the people thought turned out to be more important to the outcome than the actual truth. So while we need to keep amassing evidence and pursuing the truth ,we also need to understand that besides the truth we are also trying to build a "belief". Often times beliefs are stronger than truths (unfortunately). We need to build the belief as well as the truth. Use "guerrilla marketing tactics" whisper it, freeway blogger it, protest it, more suggestions?????

4. We need to build a financial base with socially responsible companies and angel funders.

5. We need to realize that we are in this for the long haul. If something happens before Bush gets in office fine but odds are it won't AND we can still be committed AND we can still strategically move to create a ground swell to deal with the election fraud issues NOW,NOW,NOW AND we can still make the election in 2008 more fertile ground for real voting democracy. Strategic committed persistence can and will win the day.

Anyways these are just my thoughts on your question. Please don't anyone flame me.

[whirlygigspin]

29. where the hell is Dennis Kucinich?

Ohio is his town, isn't it?

[njdemocrat106]

30. Where's Al Gore when you need him?

Perfect choice for a leader, IMHO.