Is BBV pivoting to the right?

[smartvoter]

Bev claimed on her site that Republicans are receptive and that Shrub bought her book. She said on the radio today that it is Dem operatives who are trying to quash her work and Dems likely benefited as much from election fraud.

Is this an attempt at strategic realignment as she's been "found out" here? It looks like she may to try to spin this from supporters holding her accountable for her behavior to an argument that the Dems were all for her work until she uncovered their own dirt.

This would be a last-gasp, desperate type of move, but then so is the defensive notice on the front page claiming support from the BOD.

[grumpy old fart]

1. Gone 'round the bend....

The poor woman seems to have gone off her medications....or she's been a deep Rove operative all along. Only two choices I can come up with.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

3. *ting!*

n/t

[jamboi]

21. I've long posted that IMO BBV doesn't seem focused on short-term resolutio

n of this election and flipping it (as much as we might want that), but rather rooting out the fraudulent BBV problem and long-term investigation. When I realized that, I set aside my hopes for what I would otherwise consider timely action to effect recounts and election results in this cycle. I think in Harris' mind that is the meaning of non-partisanship. I can buy that even if I don't like it. IMO I think we need to move immediately on every instance, Dem or Repub. or Al Queda attempt to rig BBV, and its a matter of preserving our democracy. However I can see Harris' approach without casting aspersions on her motivation. I think that approach is legitimate, even if I feel it is naive in light of the slo mo coup that appears to me to have occurred.

I do have a problem with her seemingly erratic behavior, but that's a different matter and as I've said before, I don't think attacking her is the way to improve the situation. You catch a lot more flies with honey than you do will with vinegar.

[dogman]

2. Why rob banks?

That's where the money is. Has she played out the left? She needs to give answers.

[geomon666]

4. I think she's lost her damn mind.

I no longer have any interest in what she has to say. Go away Bev. Go take a nice vacation or something.

[ohio_liberal]

5. I have a feeling

that she truly believes everything she said. And yes, I would say that BBV.org is making a shift to the right in order to "tap" a whole new audience and set of donors.

[OKthatsIT]

9. She wont make a dime off of the Reps

WHAT A JOKE....Reps are not invested in cleaning up the voting system. She's really lame, if she thinks that.

Well, she's started her own demise now.

[ohio_liberal]

11. Well you've gotta figure

that after she got banned on DU, slapped by Keith Olbermann, and handed her ass by Randi Rhodes her donations are drying up on the left.

[smartvoter]

20. Agree. It's about $$$. nt

[LittleClarkie]

15. I believe she believes too but I suspected

something was wrong when they seemed equally paranoid about both sides, and reported Kerry lawyers being told to destroy evidence, which in the context of what was going on didn't make sense. Kerry is a lousy actor. If he didn't really care about this election, I don't think he could ekk out fake emotion about it and be believeable. So I had trouble with some of their reports.

Maybe the Republicans have changed tactics and are now blowing sunshine up her ass. Perhaps she's like a moth going toward a bug zapper, liking the light but not realizing the destination means her destruction.

Or maybe she's just gone darkside on us.

[ohio_liberal]

Or maybe

People are right and she's just lost her damn mind.

[Generator]

41. Is that John Conyers in your avatar?

Cool. A new American hero.

[ohio_liberal]

44. Yeah

I wish I could have an avatar of everyone who gave testimony in Columbus. :)

[DireStrike]

6. I'm beginning to suspect this is all a publicity stunt

Is she just after money? If so, I'm sorry I bought her book.

On the other hand she is getting the story out, one way or another. If the BBV issue gets fixed... even if "dems" get a little damaged... it's still to our(and everyone's) advantage.

[Kelvin Mace]

13. I don't think she's in it for the money

Otherwise a lot of folks wouldn't be complaining about uncashed checks.

Fame and glory, however, are equally alluring.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[ohio_liberal]

22. True that

about the uncashed checks. Her adoration from the left is drying up too.

[alexisfree]

7. she's pivoting to something!!!

bev-"bunch of people with fakes names" :crazy:

[OKthatsIT]

8. I agree...this sux BUT

the problem here is...this could also be a Rove tactic to break us all up. The dishonesty of the Reps has become so commonplace that its hard to know who/what/where/why

[Us vs Them]

10. If this is a Rove tactic, I'm personally flattered.

Honestly, I didn't know we were that imperative!

It would take more than one easily discredited woman to cause damage to this movement.

[Kelvin Mace]

40. For the nth time

Why give Rove credit for Bev's ego?

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Freddie Stubbs]

12. Does anyoen really believe that Bush bought her book?

It doens't get much more far-fetched than that.

[ohio_liberal]

14. Um, no n/t

[smartvoter]

16. No, for too many reasons to even begin to cover-- poor attempt at lying.nt

[LittleClarkie]

17. Were there goats in it?

Or pretty pictures? Or pages he could color? Fun activities he could do with all the BFEE?

If not, then no.

[smartvoter]

18. LOL!!! nt

[Kelvin Mace]

42. I offered to marry my cat if solid evidence

could be produced that Precious Leader ordered a book.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Freddie Stubbs]

45. I'm sure that Rick Santorum would love that

[robbedvoter]

19. Uh, in case you missed her WNYC appearance:

"Whoo boy. Bev Harris turning on Democrats"
Anyone else hear her interview just now on WNYC? After a few minutes of letting her spew about the problems in Florida, the interviewer asked her about her credibility problems--he mentioned Keith Oberman and Democratic Underground. She really went off, and said that it's mostly Democratic groups trying to discredit her and that as far as she's concerned, just as much vote fraud in Florida was perpetrated by Democrats as Repubs.
Since the time I learned of the Clinton cigars, way back, I never believed she was a Democrat. Now, that's being confirmed.
http://bartcopnation.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&f...

[arcos]

25. What's the thing about the Clinton cigars?

I've seen it mentioned several times, but don't know the story.

[robbedvoter]

26. From her old site - moneymaking during Clinton time

http://web.archive.org/web/19991112034903/http://www.talion.com/cigar.htm

[mattclearing]

23. Who knows? Does she have to be a Republican to be discredited?

She has embarassed herself and us enough times for it not to matter.

[OKNancy]

24. Bev's politics

Bev never really posted politcal opinons on DU. She did say on her old website that she was an independant and only thought about voting for Gore because her "website was hacked" ( I've heard that before)
She thought people were trying to get GW's TNG records, which is weird because they were all over the net at the time.

The only real political opinion that I saw her write was:
"abortion is murder"

Personally, I never really thought of her as a liberal or even a Democrat.

[Old Mouse]

27. boy, am I going to get flamed

There are a half dozen threads on DEMOCRATIC Underground calling her a psychotic embezzling madwoman.

I could sort of see how she might possibly somehow sort of get the idea DEMOCRATS have turned against her.

I'm just sayin...

[AmerDem]

31. as someone who has sided with her in the past

What has come out in the last few weeks caused me to back away from this women. We get the same story from people who have no relationship to one another what so ever. Keith Olberman, Randi Rhodes, Skinner, the past employee she smeared and fired yesterday they all say phone calls not answered, arrogance on her part, threats on her part etc.. She then responds the same way, those people have it wrong, they are mistaken, they don't have their act together. The women has no credibility left. I mean look what she said today during the radio interview, all of a sudden people here at DU are no named antagonists and the Dem party is more interested in the vote suppression angle rather then voting fraud because they probably benefited from it as much as the repukes. Look, I don't need to hear this kind of smear attack on my party or as a member of DU. It's beyond bizarre. I'm pissed I went out on such a limb for this women. I thought she was very creditable. Maybe I trust people too much when they say all the right things. Oh well.

[bunny planet]

33. People, who happen to be Democrats, are turning against her because

she has sucker punched us. I don't like it when anybody does that. We are not turning on her, she is pulling something on us. It is abundantly clear that she is an unbalanced person. I posted something a couple of weeks ago right after she was banned from the board but can't find it now. Too long to rewrite. If any of you have a copy of 'The Artist's Way', it has some very interesting pages on a personality type called a 'crazymaker'. Bev is a card-carrying 'crazymaker'. I can only find my posts for the last 24 hours, is there a way to access back posts so that I can repost my 'crazymaker' observation about Bev?

[Old Mouse]

34. Creating crisis?

You think a martyr syndrome of some sort?

Thank you for flaming with tiny, friendly matches! ;)

[robbedvoter]

28. This one was coming for weeks:

Update: SUNDAY, DEC. 5, 2004: Black Box Voting is honing in on seven investigations right now. To the surprise of some, five of the counties we are investigating are Democratic. A national investigation we are doing trends Republican. Our members just want clean elections. We want answers, not theories, statistics, or potentialities, and therefore we are concentrating on areas which have anomalies, and where we believe we can get the facts.
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

Of course it's only our fault. had we kept worshipping her and subsidizing her, she'd still be promissing us smoking guns on weekly bases

[LisaM]

29. Or maybe she is gullible

the right-wing talk show hosts have been parroting talking points for weeks re the Democrats trying to steal elections. We are supposedly trying to "steal" the gubernatorial election in Washington State. What's going on in Ohio has been re-worded to Democrats trying to "steal" it away from *. Maybe she is falling for the rhetoric. Who knows? All she'll get from them is a lot of words - carefully crafted phrases - and complete stonewalling to try to change anything.

She seems conspicuously absent from Ohio.

[bluedeminredstate]

30. This whole thing is embarassing.

When I think back on the dramas played out and the huge reaction to them, we look like fools.

[saracat]

32. Bev Harris has gone over to the Dark Side.

There is no question in my mind. The question is , has she been there all along? What is frightening is if she isn't psychotic! She manages not only to defame the entire electoral fraud movement, but everyone who has given her the benefit of the doubt! KO had to shut her down. She made him look bad. She mad Randi look like a fool for supporting her. She put tinfoil hats on Duers. I think there is more to this and it isn't just about money. She may have gotten us to discredit ourselves by our support of her!

[Not_Without_A_Fight]

35. Merely partisan fight or an effort to establish fair, honest elections?

Are we going to be so partisan that even our vote fraud investigators have to declare party allegiance first?

I haven't been following the BBV/BH thing, mainly because I was more interested in Ohio. Still am.

Maybe BH is a crazy RWinger -- but at least she is working on this issue that is supposedly so near and dear to our hearts. And from what I read she seems well educated on the e-fraud issue.

Right now, in Ohio, Team Conyers is fighting a very uphill battle to get the f*ing Republicans, on the Juduciary Committee, to do anything more than laugh at them. If we are really serious about this issue -- we must be willing to at least steer clear of the extremely polarized US v. THEM routine.

Yes, Republican's policies and platform are, in general, abhorrent to us. But, we won't change their 'totally wack' mindset with election reform. Don't confuse these two issues. Fair honest elections is a separate effort than trying to get the Republicans to understand that 'taking the fight to terrorists -- so you don't have to fight them at home' -- might be a reasonable philosophy -- but only if you can find the terrorists when you get there.

Or -- are we just like the Republicans -- only interested in the vote tampering story if the other team takes it in the head and we put our man in office? If so, this story is going to be a revolving door and we all will tire quickly of it and both just advance our expertise at vote tampering and e-fraud.

For our effort to have any meaning to our country, we have to be willing to take the long view and clean up the system -- not just partisanly hammer the other guys (as completely tempting as that is -- remember Frodo being tempted to keep the ring for himself rather than throw it into the fire and save the world?).

Dems have participated in vote tampering before and we will do it again. And, as a proud liberal, I, personally, am prepared to 'get a little of it on me' in the effort to secure fair and honest elections in this country.

P.S. Calling the opposition the dark side is creepy. Team Bush may be the dark side, but the people who voted for him may just be misguided. My best friend in one of these people.

I apologize, in advance, to any I have offended -- but I have to ask -- so, guys, what's it going to be? The good news is -- I have nothing further to say on the BH issue. :party:

[Der Blaue Engel]

36. It's not about a partisan double-standard at all

If dems are tampering, I want them out too. (But how lame would we have to be at tampering to end up with results like this election?)

The issue is not whether she's "on our side" in the sense of being a lib or dem, but whether she's on our side in actually exposing the election fraud or has just gone round the bend and will only do damage to the cause.

Make your own assessment.

[absolutezero]

38. Hi Not_Without_A_Fight

Welcome to DU :hi:

[Not_Without_A_Fight]

39. hi right back

:toast:

[Psyop Samurai]

37. So, let's see if I have this right...

1. Unverifiable elections, hard-wired into fanatical right-wing power grid.

2. Individual elbows her way to front of issue, becoming synonymous with it.

3. Individual systematically alienates Democratic allies, then defames them, defending the nonpartisan nature of her work.

4. Individual doing important work (will be revealed in time), but out of the loop in Ohio.

5. Individual, MIA with respect to media presence, belatedly shows up on same show as Congressman Conyers.

hmm...

I can't quite put my finger on it, but there's something odd here.

[n69n]

43. RANDI RHODES STARTING NOW!!!!

RANDI RHODES STARTING NOW!!!!