as much as I want to believe that the recount efforts will work...I don't.

[UpsideDownFlag]

Why should i have any reason to believe they will? They own the media, folks. They own all the branches of the government. Nothing is going to come out that they dont want us to see, except maybe on blogs- and they're already working on discrediting those. I understand that negative posts arent the most popular, but the more i've seen of their tactics in the past couple weeks, and the more i've seen our leadership keep rolling over...I just have no reason to believe anything will come of it.

[liam97]

1. Recount efforts won't flip the vote

they will reveal fraud and manipulation

[UpsideDownFlag]

3. ..and what will become of it? you think that congress

will move against the administration, have some kind of hearings? I don't think so. No, I think it's time to sit down with lots and lots of good books, and some nice hot cocoa. I'll start caring again in 4 years.

[Old Mouse]

18. Those books had better be about yoga

to help us with the stress positions we'll endure in Gitmo is we don't turn back THIS election.

[Razorback_Democrat]

23. No Doubt!

I don't think anyone who dismisses the importance of this election and its outcome realizes how precarious a position our democracy is in!

Fascism has been creeping over the last several years. 9/11 helped move it along faster! another terra attack and who knows what the masses will accept from our "homeland" terrorists who want to strip us of our rights!

Never give up!

[jamboi]

29. Just you wait. First off this isn't only about flipping the vote, and 2nd

the momentum has just begun to build. We have to keep on it and make sure we wack election fraud for the sake of democracy otherwise there's no point in waiting 4 years because it will just be stolen again. We can't afford to drop it now.

[tridim]

13. And the fraud and manipulation will expose

the people who committed the fraud and manipulation which in turn will eventually expose those who ordered these people to commit fraud and manipulation. Think Watergate.

[Kellis]

16. There ya' go.

No Doubt in my mind that this is gonna blow sky high.


"They Can Run But They Can't Hide"

[bunny planet]

41. Yes, and if the election fraud scandal doesn't catch up to them first,

there are dozens of other potential time bombs waiting in line for them too. It's like a bakery, take a number!

[jamboi]

31. Yes! n/t

[UpsideDownFlag]

33. think watergate? watergate was brought about because of a

young, energetic, non-whore press. in order for fraud and manipulation to be exposed, this must exist. it doesn't, this time around.
'

[tridim]

43. I disagree

This is developing exactly like watergate. W&B were the only reporters covering Watergate until it blew up into a full blown story. DU, Olbermann, AAR and several other individuals are playing W&B this time, and every so often we get a blip of a story in a major newspaper. I have very little doubt that this will eventually explode in a major way.

[googly]

51. Watergate had a "deep throat", where can we find one in Ohio?

[IAMREALITY]

2. All I can Say IS

Don't Rely on Them. Rely on YOU.

And Rely on US.

[zann725]

6. Yep! That's it! It's up to 'we the people' this time.

Enough nay-saying! Get up from infront of your hot cocoa and books and do something NOW! Otherwise, four years from now it'll be their THIRD fraudulent victory...you can bet on it!:kick:

[Old Mouse]

17. Thanks IAMREALITY

I can always count on you for a reality check.

Conyers said it. It's all about PR now, not votes.

[wtmusic]

4. Something already has come of it

Depends on how you define "working". Ken Blackwell is being held accountable. Other Repub SOS's are on notice.

Unless something breaks wide open Junior will be president again, but that doesn't mean the recounts haven't achieved anything.

[Philostopher]

5. What I hope comes of it ...

is more scrutiny about how we vote and who's involved in handling that business. I never really thought any of it would affect the result, but what I do hope is that shining a light on the bugs under that rock might wake people up to the fact that their votes aren't worth a damn if nobody pays attention to this stuff, and that allowing partisans -- from either party -- to have this much control over a state's voting isn't to the benefit of the citizens of the state.

Whether it will have this ultimate result or not, I don't know, but I'm hoping it will help clean up the process, or at least make it somewhat more transparent.

[zann725]

9. Come on people...it WILL! What did Michael Moore say, 'quit rolling over.'

n/t:kick:

[katinmn]

12. Yah, lots of us are past the point of rolling over. n/t

[aforbes10]

7. I kind of believe

I would like to think that the recounts will show something...but so far all we see (in the first few counties reporting back) is counts that match the certified vote. This is not encouraging. Does anyone know whether these already-counted counties should really be confidence-killers, or were they not expected to show anything in the first place?

I kind of suspect that if there is to be any great revelation, it will occur through future investigative jounalism/congressional review and may happen long after * is inaugurated for the second of his zero legal terms of office.

[Dr.Phool]

8. Unfortunately

I'm forced to agree with you. I wish I didn't have to.

I live in the Tampa-St.Pete area, and get the St. Pete Times delivered every morning. Since the election, the irregularities in Ohio have been mentioned one time. And that was just last week in a small article pooh-poohing the idea. Conspiracy theories, get over it.

Kenneth Blackwell and the Republicans are just as brazen now as they were 6 months ago. They don't fear any consequences for violating the law. The MSM rides merrily along, ignoring the story, but have minute to minute coverage of Laci Peterson. Why the hell should I care anymore about Laci, than the woman who was murdered by her husband 5 miles from here, and got a 2 inch article.

Let's face it. The fascists have won.

[zann725]

11. Tell that to the Ukrainians! Come on people!

:kick:

[Dr.Phool]

15. How can you mobilize

A bunch of brain-washed Wal-Martians, that think Herr Bush was annointed by god? The worthless media in this country didn't even cover MILLIONS of anti war protesters. Acording to the MSM, the March for Womens Lives, in April, with a turnout of 1.1 million, was a quiet Sunday afternoon picnic.

[UpsideDownFlag]

27. we are definitely far, far away from the kind of situation ukraine was.

for instance, the media over there actually covered the fraud issue. also, most countries refused to acknowledge the election. can you see France or Germany refusing to acknowledge the results of this election?

[jamboi]

32. Hold on, we have to B patient and keep watching. This has just begun. n/t

[Joe Chi Minh]

26. You don't have to.

(Post #8: "I'm forced to agree with you. I wish I didn't have to").

Isn't there a strong suspicion, probably to be investigated, that false ballot papers were printed? Why is it you people always pick up on the negative things, but never the positive correctives? Do you have some kind of agenda we should know about....?

Or has the possibility that even statistical proof of such post facto printing being found, been comprehensively refuted?

[Joe Chi Minh]

46. It never varies.

A string of blandishments, from reassuring to exultant, then the downer: "(but, we we've done our darnedest, and we have to) move on, now".

There'll be other threads in the same vein, after this. I guarantee it.

[katinmn]

10. What next? Impeachment, what else?

We're never giving up.

:)

[burn the bush]

14. yes, impeachment

I don't think we will change the outcome of the vote. If we had a real democracy it would change. However, we are no longer living in a real democracy.
However, people, be very proud of what we have accomplished. We had to bitch and bitch and seemed to not be heard, yet we have made a difference. We have made a huge difference in the future of America. A huge step towards bringing our country back to democracy.
I am convinced that our work has at least opened eyes and will cause new regulations and perhaps national continuity on voting laws. It's a big step and we should be proud.
Unfortunately we won't get what we really want out of it and that is Bush out of office. I know that it bothers all of you as much as me to have to have such negative feelings about our government and the direction our beloved America is going. We much continue to try to save America and stop the global war that this administration seems to want. To this end we must work to impeach shrub. People die each day he is there and so it is not against our country that we dissent but against the thieves who planted themselves at the head of our government. We are protecting our country and our world and we will continue
After the innaugeration (ok badly mispelled) I hope that all of us can join together to find a way to remove the madmen from the helm of our country.
Be proud of what we have done so far. It is a lot more than you realize.

[impeachthescoundrel]

19. I lived during Watergate

So I can't lose hope. I was only 16 years old when rumblings of the scandal began. Granted the putz was inaugurated. Back then I didn't think too much about it.

But the similarities are beginning to show. Forgive my foggy memory, because I can't remember the day it happened, but one day the lid blew off HARD. Like the top of a pressure cooker hitting the ceiling.

I remember being dumbfounded by the lengths they would go to to win an election. I remember hating them that day, and every day since. No I will not wait four years. I would be so happy to see this election overturned, but that doesn't mean it will be. On the other hand, that doesn't mean all our work and hopes are for nothing.

Every day in the MSM news this week, some more than others, I've been seeing members of this fraudulent administration being put down. It is oh so gratifying!

So remember Watergate. Do not despair. The evil presence cannot stand forever, or indeed, for much longer!

[BlueCentrist]

20. That is very encouraging.

Thank you for putting things in perspective.

[katinmn]

21. I remember Watergate, too. I was in junior high and my

perspective is that impeachment is not unreasonable at all.

And if it's the only mechanism left, well.

It can be avoided. * could step down.

People just have to start telling the truth - starting with the war in Iraq. Just yesterday I heard an NPR reporter refer to it as being caused by "flawed" evidence.

Come on, it was a bit fat lie.

And here we sit.

No, impeachment is starting to look doable.

[impeachthescoundrel]

22. Thank you

Rolling over and giving up has never been in my nature.

[malatesta1137]

25. but obviously

it has been in Kerry's.

[UpsideDownFlag]

38. impeachment is starting to look doable?? with Tom Delay...

..owning the house? :puke:

would that it could be true.

[saracat]

40. Sorry. Impeachment by whom?

We don't conrtol either house. It is not to the adantage of either party to impeach. And the people don't care. Even if mass media covers it, they don't care. They are more concerned with Survivor and American Idol. This is not the Ukraine. Who is going to care???

[mcscajun]

30. Just for 'fun'

...I took a look for something about the timeline.

Like you, I lived through Watergate and watched the kettle come to boil. But memories do get foggy.

For anyone interested in the anatomy of a Presidential scandal, review the timeline here:
http://www.msnbc.com/onair/msnbc/timeandagain/archive/watergate/timeline.asp

[mcscajun]

34. Whether we give up or not...

...it'll take a Miracle to impeach this president.

When Watergate was the big scandal, the Democrats controlled the Senate. We control Nothing now...not the Senate, not the House, not the Mainstream Media. Nothing is on our side. Except Time. And Miracles.

[malatesta1137]

24. and the main reason they won't work

is John Kerry's cowardliness. The man was the wrong choice, he's part of the problem. I now believe those who said Karl Rove could not have been happier with his nomination.

[UpsideDownFlag]

28. i hate to agree with you about that...but his conceding certainly didn't

help anything. what was it he said? he wouldnt have conceded if he thought there was any chance he could win? gee, thanks.

[jamboi]

36. Yes, in some ways it made it tougher and in some ways it worked in our fav

or. It took the heat off of all of us to slip under the radar. We'll see where it goes.

[jamboi]

35. Like a guy who charges RPG gunner is really a coward. Ha! Wait and see

this is just in infant stages. A very careful chess game is playing out.

[UpsideDownFlag]

37. very careful chess games are usually not begun...

..by the eventual winner decapitating his queen, and handing it to the enemy.:argh:

[malatesta1137]

47. thank you

[UpsideDownFlag]

48. welcome

[malatesta1137]

50. infant stages?

are you for real? GAME OVER! Kerry won't do ANYTHING about the theft. At the most he will burst a blood vessel screaming in some useless speech around 2007/8, the same way Gore did in 2003/4.

[fshrink]

39. I think so-called "negative" posts are important for one main reason:

They generate articulate anger. Articulate anger is good because it allows anger to cool down and become productive. Nothing as efficient as cold, structured anger.

[katinmn]

42. I agree!

There is broad-based resolve to follow this through. The strategies and tactics will change as the situation warrants.

What won't change is the committment to get these people out!

[impeachthescoundrel]

44. Ditto

[UpsideDownFlag]

45. well, thanks.

:toast:

[bitchkitty]

49. Hope

It is a cliche, but hope springs eternal. After 2000 my heart was dull and broken - not so much painful, just utter silence in my soul. I was cynical and bitter, but now I am hopeful, again. I know how you feel, but give the forces of good the benefit of the doubt. I am not a religious woman in any strict sense, but I do believe that god will give you the desire of your heart, and this is the desire of so many people.

edited for dumb-assedness