I worked the elections in columbus ohio......ask me anything

[seriousstan]

I might answer you.

[Patsy Stone]

1. Well, then

How exactly *was* it stolen? :)

[seriousstan]

3. lol ,OK you have me there. I can promise you nobody in my precinct

did it.

[Patsy Stone]

4. Thanks! That's one down! :) n/t

[Razorback_Democrat]

2. Did you see any evidence of fraud?

voter intimidation?

intentional voter suppression?

anything out of the ordinary?

[seriousstan]

5. No fraud, no suppression the only thing was some campaigning in line.

Sorry to say, nearly all Dem based which was a shame because I worked a heavily Dem precinct. I had to throw a group named League of Pissed Off Voters out of the building and of the property for campaigning and handing out lit. I also had to escort one fool out for repeatedly campaigning for Kerry and sneaking back into the building. We had both a Dem and Rep challengers who did nothing. We had extremely long lines. Very late, after 9 pm, we were besieged by Rep lawyers who apparently wanted to make sure nobody was allowed in line after 7:30. I threw them out an made them go 100 ft from the doors. Everyone in line had a very positive attitude and it sort of became party like.

[berniew1]

7. Apparently you don't understand what suppression is. it was documented.

There was well documented voter suppression in Columbus of minority voters. It was systematic and intentional, and even you admit you had it without apparently realizing it. Long lines; but low official turnout; they go together and were well documented.
http://northnet.org/minstrel/columbus.htm

[berniew1]

10. Voter Suppression: STEALING VOTES IN COLUMBUS

The Free Press on Election Day posted a disturbing story, later confirmed by the Columbus Dispatch. The Free Press reported that Franklin County Board of Elections Director Matt Damschroder deliberately withheld voting machines from predominantly black Democratic wards in Columbus, and dispersed some of the machines to affluent suburbs in Franklin County. Damschroder is the former Executive Director of the Franklin County Republican Party. Sources close to the Board of Elections told the Free Press that Damschroder and Ohio’s Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell met with President George W. Bush in Columbus on Election Day. The idea was to discourage turnout in Democratic wards by forcing voters to wait in long lines at the polling places. Such a strategy would be far more
effective than encouraging turnout in Republican wards. Elections are all about margins. There are 74 wards in Columbus. George W. Bush won 12 wards, with a margin of 7.35%.
John F. Kerry won 62 wards, with a margin of 37.62%. Affecting Kerry’s turnout would greatly reduce his margin of victory in Columbus, giving the Republicans a much better chance of overtaking Kerry given a strong enough showing in suburban and small town Republican strongholds.
In order to investigate this matter, I obtained from the Franklin County Board of Elections all the data I needed in order to calculate, ward by ward, and precinct by precinct: (1) The ratio of registered voters per voting machine. (2) Percent turnout, calculated as total ballots cast divided by the number of registered voters. (3) Percent for Kerry, calculated as votes cast for Kerry divided by votes cast for president. (4) Margin of victory or defeat for Kerry, calculated as the difference between the vote totals for Kerry and Bush.
All 36 of the wards at the bottom of the list of voters per voting machine were won by Kerry, and they include most of his strongholds. In 29 of the 36 wards, Kerry exceeded his city wide share of 62.22% of the vote. However, these wards suffered a low voter turnout.It is important to understand what these numbers mean. The polls in Ohio were open from 6:30 A.M. to 7:30 P.M. That is 13 hours, or 780 minutes. If there are 400 registered voters per voting machine, and turnout is 60%, each voter has less than 3.5 minutes to vote, and that is assuming a steady stream of voters, with no rushes at certain hours. It also assumes no challenges to voters at the polls. If there are 550 registered voters per voting machine, and the turnout is 60%, each voter has 2.4 minutes. All of this amounts to theft of votes. It has been shown above that the Kerry precincts enjoyed a voter turnout similar to that of the Bush precincts when supplied with enough voting machines.
Thus I conclude that the withholding of voting machines from predominantly Democratic wards in the City of Columbus cost John Kerry upwards of 17,000 votes. A more detailed calculation could be done on a precinct by precinct basis, but that is not necessary here.
The purpose is to illustrate the magnitude of the conspiracy. Matt Damschroder did not act alone. There are 74 wards and 472 precincts in Columbus, Ohio. It is not possible for one person to have delivered all the voting machines, and it is unlikely that nobody else was involved in planning where to deliver them. Anyone who associated with Mr. Damschroder on or shortly before Election Day should be investigated for possible complicity. Richard
Hayes Phillips, Ph.D. 4 Fisher Street Canton, New York 13617 [phone] [e-mail]
http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/columbus.htm

[righteous1]

13. The man was there, I don't think he needs patronizing comments

from you. Maybe everything went well in his precinct. Jeez somebody does not state what YOUR reality is and you turn on him like a rabid dog, settle down and be a human being

[read the law first]

32. right on righteous1 !

"Just because you were there and actually took part in protecting the vote doesn't mean that you know better than I (a thousand miles away) what happened at your precinct, freeptard plant." <-sarcasm.

Reminds me of our Staunch Democratic African-American Board of Election Chairman in our county 80 % African-American when they were certifying the vote (two days after election day, not thirty mind you): "I spent all day election day on the phone with lawyers from out of state accusing ME of INTENTIONALLY disenfranchising black democrat voters ." He was quite po'ed about being accused in such a flippant way by people who didn't know what they were talking about.

[New Earth]

35. don't you have some laws to study or something

[read the law first]

47. Actually the DRE regulations but this is more interesting

:toast:

[berniew1]

39. how is supplying documentation being hyper or rabid?? But thanks also.

But I appreciate his willingness to share info. Thats helpful.

[seriousstan]

18. Low official turnout??? Did you read my post?

We had over 2 times the highest turnout our precinct had in the last 15 years. I was very proud in the way our voters braved the weather and the long lines.

[MarkusQ]

42. Do the math

You had enough equipment for 424 voters in the allotted time, assuming that they arrived evenly spaced throughout the day.

You say you had almost twice that many, which means that you must have had lines (on average) of much more than six hours long.

That means that anyone who couldn't wait six hours to vote wasn't allowed to vote. There are all sorts of reasons they might have had to leave without voting; maybe they couldn't miss a whole day of work, leave their kids alone all day, etc. Whatever the reason, you didn't see them, so your comments about braving the weather and high spirits doesn't apply to them.

They were the suppressed voters, not all the cheerful, brave and patient ones you did see.

--MarkusQ

[New Earth]

9. lolll

you smell too!!!!!!! wtf

[Razorback_Democrat]

11. How come when I post something like that

my posts get deleted???

I agree though

[New Earth]

15. i didn't know it was against the rules to tell someone they smell

:(

[Razorback_Democrat]

17. Hey ya got me Faye!

I post something about someone maybe not being what they say they are (which is how I interpreted your post, but maybe I need to couch my posts with more ambiguous terms) and I get deleted.

[ewulf]

67. 9 pm is pretty late,

I would say that qualifies as suppression, at least on some level, no? Why didn't the precinct have more machines, could it have been that it was a Democratic precinct?

[seriousstan]

79. 9PM? our last voter voted on Wed. Nov. 3

I explain the voting machine allocation for our precinct below.

[LisaL]

146. Isn't it kind of hard to have a party

when it was raining all day?

[seriousstan]

152. We were all inside. Actually, I think it had a bit of the fatigue, group

punishment bonding effect. Like everone was suffering the same...say Breakfast Club type effect.

We also passed around a lot of food and left over Halloween candy.

[Zeebo]

6. OK...

In what capacity did you work?

What precinct?

How many voting booths were there? How about 2000?

What type of voting method? Punch? Optical Scan?

Were you involved in the tabulating for the precinct? Any observations regarding the tabulation process? Were you privy to the tabulation result prior to sending it to the SOS office?

Thanks.

[seriousstan]

12. I was an election judge, that is a poll worker

you know, the people that take your name, sig and let you vote.

I like my anonymity, so just say I am very close to the OSU campus area, the poorer south side not the richer Clintonville area.

We had 3 booth, same as 2000

We use an electronic booth that is not touch screen but instead has a plastic overlay over buttons. People have refered to them as the ones with the flashing red lights.


We remove the paper tapes and the magnetic cartridges from the booths. We send these and the provisional votes to the BOE pick up area. We can see the vote total for each machine but we do no math.

Let me expand on the number of booths. We used to have 4 but our voter turnout over the past 8 years has been so low, as low as 150 on 1 election, that they decided we could make do with 3 booths. Three have worked fine for the last 5-6 years. We usually have less than 350 voters. Each machine can handle about 150-200 votes per election day if people don't park their butts in the booth (meaning less than 5 minutes).

[jamboi]

16. Did you work the primary? How did your voter numbers compare? n/t

[seriousstan]

20. I have worked the same precinct for over 15 years.

We had about 280 (give or take) at the primary and we had almost 800 at the general election. Also we had 300 more registered voters in Nov than we had in MArch.

[jamboi]

25. Okay, how do these primary numbers compare with past elections? n/t

[seriousstan]

28. Comparable, we had a slight rise when McCain was running

in the 2000 election but we had never gotten over 400 voters before. In 2000 we only had about 1000 registered voters. We usually do about 30 percent or less for primaries and never over 35 percent for presidential. Other elections are real low, 25 percent and down to 15 percent.

[jamboi]

34. Question posed at #55: Arnebeck on machine reduction. n/t

[seriousstan]

58. We lost our fourth machine in 1998. We have never missed it

until now. We lost it because of low voter turnout.

One thing to remember is that every extra machine reduces the line by one hour. We would have needed 6 more. In our polling place, we would have had a hard time finding space for that many....but we would have given it one hell of a try.

[MarkusQ]

137. How do you figure? The math doesn't work on that.

One thing to remember is that every extra machine reduces the line by one hour.

Every machine increases your through-put by about 12 voters per hour. If you had only one machine, adding another would double your through-put, but if you had twenty machines it would only increase it about 5%.

The existence of the line is determined by the rate at which people arrive vs. the rate you can process them. If they arrive faster than they can vote, you will have a line; if they get through the process at a greater rate than they arrive, there will be no line.

The line length (once one exists) is a function of the people's mental state. Some people (e.g. trying to vote on their lunch hour) may not stay if there is even a very short line; others would stay for anything up to a seven-day long line (e.g. people buying concert tickets). There is a gradient in between, and the length of the line is determined by the point at which it stops growing--that is, the point at which it is long enough to suppress enough voters that the remainder can be handled.

So "each machine reduces the line by one hour" is nuts.

--MarkusQ

[jmknapp]

149. The BOE and its apologists don't understand queueing theory

That's obvious.

[seriousstan]

155. I work the elections as a poll worker, I make no apologies for them.

I do it because I believe I can do it better and fairer than someone else might. This is how I try to affect the voting process. I guess I could just take an example from you and simply sit behind a keyboard and make baseless accusations but I would rather get off my ass and have a real, physical effect on the system.

As for the math, I am probably wrong about the hour. The poster made a valid point. I now think that 1 machine might have taken about 2 hours off the wait. The fact remains....WE COULDN'T GET ONE!! So I was forced to deal with the reality. You should try it some time rather than sit behind the keyboard stomping your virtual little feet on the floor.

[jmknapp]

160. Oh, I get out, quite a bit.

And the point stands: neither you, BOE apologist, nor the BOE, understands queueing theory.

The best way to remedy that is through education, not the tantrum you just threw.

Another good point made in this thread was that you said you saw no vote suppression, but you reported long lines, evidently not recognizing the connection beween the two.

[seriousstan]

159. I was only talking about how it would effect our poll.

You are right about the percentage as relating to the number of machines. On further thought, I guess it would have taken at least a couple of hours off the wait. I never really gave it too much thought because I couldn't get any more machines that day. I just had to deal with it as best I could.

[MarkusQ]

161. The key though isn't the wait...

...the very fact that you had lines meant that some voters were suppressed. And the longer the lines, the more voters you lost.

So when you say you saw long lines but didn't see voter suppression, it's like saying you saw ashes but no sign of fire. What you saw (long lines, ashes) being the visible residue of what you didn't see (voter suppression, fire).

--MarkusQ

[Razorback_Democrat]

19. Do you believe there was fraud in Ohio? n/t

[seriousstan]

22. I can only speak for what I saw at our precinct.

The rest, I hope, will come out from other peoples experiences. Our voters were heroes. They braved the weather and the long lines to vote well into Wednsday morning.

As the old joke says, we had Dems vote on Wed.

[Razorback_Democrat]

26. Surely being in Ohio, being a judge, you have some ideas

about whether there was fraud or not?

you've seen the claims here and other places I'm sure

open up

[seriousstan]

30. As election judges at the polls we do no tabulations

so I am as far in the dark as the rest of us. The night of the elections I started work at 5:30 AM and got home at 2:00 AM the next day. I was wiped out. As for speculation, I leave that to other more qualified people. Serious.

[Helga Scow Stern]

8. Did the voting results meet with what you experienced on that day? n/t

[seriousstan]

14. I don't understand.

[kerry2win]

21. Can I use the voting card I got in mail Nov. 3rd

for the revote on tueday January 11th. Had to make my 300th post a pipe dream.

[seriousstan]

23. I won't be there

:)

[kerry2win]

31. I hope you meant the revote and not my dream

that would be J.E. Hoover scary

[Carolab]

24. What is the "BOE pickup area"?

Who picked up? Did you witness anything? Where did the cartridges go? Who signed off? What were the security safeguards? Did anyone report problems with selecting Kerry and seeing *?

[jamboi]

36. How would you describe the demographics of your precinct? n/t

[seriousstan]

41. College students and low rent. Less than 20 percent home ownership.

About 30 percent black. Income under 30K, maybe 50K per household.

[seriousstan]

37. The presiding judge takes the tapes and other material to

the Ohio State Fairgrounds and drop them off to the officials working the pick up area. I am our precinct's presiding judge, so I was the one delivering them. We are a heavily Dem area and I have had this position for over a decade.

I witness no irregularities other than the ENORMOUS turnout, that really warmed my heart. I was very proud of all the people who stuck it out.

The cartridges go in a plastic pouch. If you are asking about after I hand them over, I don't know.

Every poll worker signs off on the paper printout when we open the machines in the morning and then we sign at the end of the tapes after we take them out of the machines at the end of the day. We also sign the seal on the provisional ballot envelope.

Other than out signatures, we record protective counters on the back of the machines at the beginning and end. We also record all seal numbers opening and closing the polling booths.

We don't have those kind of machines. We have the blinking red light, plastic overlay with buttons underneath type. When you select a candidate or issue and press the button next to his name, the red lights that were flashing change to a solid red light beside your choice and disappear from beside the one you didn't push. We had no complaints.

We do always have some Luddites that think they need to mark the overlays with the write-in pencil. :)

[jamboi]

40. self delete and asked again below

[jamboi]

44. Please see my questions in post #34, and #36. n/t

[Terre]

27. What precinct were you assigned to

and was there more than one in the building?

[seriousstan]

29. I like my anonymity,

so just say I am very close to the OSU campus area, the poorer south side not the richer Clintonville area.

[americanwoman]

33. Thanks for your offer to respond.

What was the procedure for ensuring the precinct tally was indeed the tally used in the official county-wide and state-wide counts?

What were the tallies for president at your precinct?

How many provisional ballots were given out at your precinct? How many absentee? How were they counted?

Did the total number of votes for president match the total number of people that voted at your precinct?

How late did your precinct stay open?

What type of voting system did your precinct use?

[read the law first]

43. Thoughtful questions all

Did you post a tape with the results at the precinct before you transmitted your data to the county tabulation center?

Was that tape available to the public for examination?

[jamboi]

45. Did you ever see any technicians from the machine co.? What machines

did you use?

[read the law first]

50. Good question! a follow up

And if there were technicians did they have ids to show that they were authorized to touch the machines?

[seriousstan]

51. Never did or have in over 15 years.

Sorry, I should look that up. As I said, we always call the the red blinking light ones. I will try to find one on the web later.

[jamboi]

53. Red blinking light ones?Do you mean that as a reference to the model?n/t

[seriousstan]

63. It is the best physical description I had.

They fold up into a box about 4 ft by 4 ft by 2 ft.

[seriousstan]

122. Here is a picture

[seriousstan]

62. Yes, one copy of the tape is posted in the window for the public

to see. It is also signed by all of the judges.

[read the law first]

69. Did you check your total against the "official" results?

Did you check your total that you published when you closed to what the official results were? Maybe just out of curiosity? If so, did your totals change or did they stay the same from when they left? There has been some suspicion that some funny business was going on at the server level. It seems like comparing the public precinct tape to the official results at the server would either confirm or refute this suspicion.

[seriousstan]

71. The numbers I saw reported in the Columbus Dispatch

for our precinct were right on the money....except for that write in for sweaty Mcbutt

[read the law first]

73. Is that write in vote for real? n/t

[seriousstan]

80. Yep, and the tard had 2 other tries at comedy that he had crossed

out before settling on that gem.

[read the law first]

84. that's funny

[read the law first]

38. Did the outside observers treat you respectfully?

Did you have outside observers?
Did they treat you respectfully?
Or did they try to bully you?

If they tried to bully you, what did you do about it?

[seriousstan]

48. We had a Dem and Rep witness.

They both wanted to see the poll books during the election. I shut that down before it started. As presiding judge, I have the final say. After calling in to whoever their handlers were, they both respected my authority (Too South Parkish?)

The Rep witness and later the Rep lawyers that swarmed after 7:30PM tried to test me but I don't scare easy and the police at the poll does what the Presiding judge says.

[jamboi]

49. Did you have anybody that was turned away or had to vote on provisional

ballots? How did that go?

[seriousstan]

54. We sent a few lost souls to their proper polling places.

The BOE gave us an almanac of all the streets and corresponding polling places in the entire city of Columbus.

We had over 50 provisional ballots. Meaning, we were issued 50 and had to request more wen we got below 20. The extras arrived promptly.
Most of these were newly registered people or those that had recently moved. We normally use about 20-35 because we have a lot of college students and rentals.

We have all worked together for a very long time and we run the polls like a well oiled machine. Everyone at my poll can handle the provisionals with ease.

[read the law first]

57. Were provisional voters mad or happy?

Were provisional voters mad that they had to vote provisionally or were they happy that they got to vote and not go home without voting after standing in the line in the rain?

i.e. were they relieved or po'ed or both?

[seriousstan]

60. We had only one person question if his vote would count.

I assured him it would. He was a first time voter who had registered on a sidewalk booth. Others were very happy to simply vote. We had very long lines. We tried to not send anyone away and did a damn good job of that by patrolling the lines all day and informing people where they were and where they should be. Anyone with questions were talked to within a half hour of getting in line.

We were there to get people voted.

[jamboi]

64. In your estimation how up to date were your registration books? What was

the cut off date if I'd registered in your precinct that I could expect to show up on the books?

[seriousstan]

75. They were very up to date. I know because I know someone who

recently registered. However, I heard from some voters that they had registered the week before and expected to be in the book. I think some people doing the registering were uninformed of the cutoff dates. When we have people vote provisional, we automatically register them again.

[read the law first]

52. heck yeah, pj! n/t

[jamboi]

46. In the run up to the election did you get any of the false flyers, phone

calls and other craziness that others report?

[seriousstan]

65. I work days and never got any of the calls.

I really felt left out by not getting any celeb calls.

[jamboi]

66. See any flyers, hear of anyone else getting this stuff? n/t

[seriousstan]

83. The only flyers I saw were being handed out to people standing in line

by a group called the League of Pissed Off Voters. I had to run them off 3 times inside the building. I saw lots of election material left in conspicuous places but it was all Dem. We are vastly predominately a Dem precinct. We cleaned all material up every half hour.

[jamboi]

55. Can you corroborate or refute the following Arnebeck quote from your view

34. Can you corroborate or refute the following Arnebeck quote from your view:

COLMES: Was there a purposeful lack of machines in black urban areas and more machines in Republican suburban areas? Was that on purpose?
From Hanity and Colmes yesterday:

ARNEBECK: Yes.

COLMES: How do you know?

ARNEBECK: From the evidence.

COLMES: What evidence?

ARNEBECK: The -- Well, there's a spreadsheet that they have where they show that they reduced the number of machines in the black and high performance Democratic precincts and increased machines in the -- in the Republican precincts. And you can see this graphically.

I'd be happy to provide -- to provide to you the graphs that show the ratios and show a clearly -- a clear discriminatory effect.

Now one of the comments in defense of this is that, gee, this was approved by a bipartisan election board. Well, what happened is somebody on the Republican side, a good political consultant, came up with a formula that he could say -- "Well, we'll get into it as we conduct depositions."

[jamboi]

56. Was it raining? How hard, for how long? All the time? How long would 1

40. Was it raining? How hard, for how long? All the time? How long would 1



person have to wait from when they started to when they got to the booth?

[seriousstan]

68. Our line was in the building. It was raining light to very hard

from about 6PM on. We had lines that started from the opening of the polls and were about 1 hour almost immediately. They then stretched to over 6 hours and the last person voted well after midnight.

[jamboi]

59. Questions about techs and machines. Asked again since I didn't understand

The answer above:


Did you ever see any technicians from the machine co.? What machines
did you use?

read the law first
50. Good question! a follow up

And if there were technicians did they have ids to show that they were authorized to touch the machines?

[seriousstan]

70. I have never seen a tech in all my years working there.

[jamboi]

72. How do the votes get tabulated? what is the procedure to get them to the

county?

[seriousstan]

93. See post 37

[jamboi]

96. Thank you! n/t

[jamboi]

61. Are your machines some kind of punch card gizmos? n/t

[seriousstan]

77. No, they ar more like push buttons under a plastic overlay

with, once again, red...blinking..light. lol

[Griffy]

74. How do I know you really work on Ohio elections?? nt

[seriousstan]

76. lololol I guess you can't, I don't know what else to say

except look at the detailed info I am posting. I have done this for over 15 years. Always at the same precinct.

[read the law first]

82. would you label yourself nonpartisan, bipartisan, partisan but fair...

would you describe yourself as nonpartisan, bipartisan, partisan but fair, partisan but unfair, partisan and zealous, partisan but ambivalent or some other description?

[seriousstan]

85. I am a Dem election official.

so I guess that is partisan. You have to be afiliated with one of the 2 parties to get this job.

[read the law first]

88. Do you believe that partisans can be trusted to run elections fairly?

Would you trust someone who is nonpartisan (if that's actually possible) to run the election better than partisans?

Do you think partisans can be trusted if there are partisans from the other side and you all are watching each other?

Do you think partisans are inherently corrupted in running elections because of their bias?

If you saw your own side cheating, what would you do?

If you saw a repug cheating, would you call the ambulance after you shot him?

[seriousstan]

98. We have 3 judges from each side. Even during lunch there are

reps from both the Dems and Reps always present.

Actally, we have worked together for so long that our only goal is to get the voters in the booth and out the door. I have never seen any friction between the parties. I highly doubt voters even know which of us is which.

Anyone cheating would be removed with a boot in their ass no matter who they are.

I think it is the best system we have for now.

I don't believe in Boogiemen or nonpartisan people.

[jdog]

78. Do you believe the precinct you worked in was

typical in terms of no problems? Please explain any feedback you may have heard from other precincts regarding complaints, repair people visits, disenfranchisements, etc.

Finally, are you answering these questions because you want to reassure us about the election? Or do you believe there is still a lot of information yet to be uncovered, and it really needs to be looked at?

edit typo

[seriousstan]

86. I used to have relatives working other polling places but they

have moved or died. So I have no inside line to anything other than my poll.

I started this thread just to answer questions, give insight and help people understand the process from a viewpoint they may not have access to.

I guess it doesn't hurt my post numbers or my typing practice either.

[AntiFascist]

81. Do you know if your precinct(s) is one that is called into question...

in the Ohio hearings? If not, then why is it really productive for us to ask you questions, except to gather general info. about elections in Ohio?

[jamboi]

87. I'm just asking for general info. n/t

[seriousstan]

90. I have not heard my precinct mentioned in the Ohio hearings

by name. I have seen complaints posted on some voter feedback sites but I am proud to say that they all were about the length of the lines and never about the workers. One post even said that we made the long wait somewhat, and I dare say a very small somewhat, more pleasant. We tried to stay upbeat all day because we realized that all of us were in for a very long day.

If you don't find it productive, don't ask questions. I answered why I started this post above, to disseminate info.

[AntiFascist]

102. I'm just curious about what can be drawn from this thread....

it would be good if Jamboi could post a separate message summarizing the interesting facts he has learned from his questions. Also, it would be good to know what security holes could be exploited if someone in your position is not as experienced/ethical/or "on the ball."

[seriousstan]

107. I am not sure I could change the vote but voters could.

We have both parties present at all times, so no judge could ever vote repeatedly. There is no other way I know of to change the numbers.

Voters voting many times at different precincts is possible but, as I have mentioned, most election officials have worked the same precinct for years and we know MANY of the voters. Trying to impersonate another registered voter could easily get you caught if we knew the person you were claiming to be.

[AntiFascist]

113. Here comes the tin-foil hat question....

suppose the judge and both observers were corrupt (I know we don't like to think about these things in our society) or one observer may have gotten distracted for a period of time. Would it then be a fairly easy matter to defraud the results at the precinct level by switching ballots, allowing faulty results to be modemed in, etc; not necessarily simply voting as someone else, per se?

[seriousstan]

115. Nope, on the machines we use there is no input port.

Every openable panel is close with a numbered seal. There is no physical way to access, touch or control the count. Here are the machines we use ...



The provisional ballots could possibly be thrown away but we count the envelopes and compare that to the number of provisional ballots at the end of the night. So, even if someone did that, we would know it was done.

All numbered unused provisional ballots are returned to the BOE.

[jamboi]

89. In your county was the 3% recount random? Was your precinct one that was

recounted?

[jamboi]

91. Please see my questions in post #72 also. n/t

[read the law first]

94. good question! n/t

[seriousstan]

99. I believe the law says it is random.

I don't know if they chose mine.

[read the law first]

92. What identification did you require of voters, if any?

Did anyone have difficulty in presenting an id?

If so, what did you do?

[seriousstan]

100. We only had to ask 3 people for IDs. They all had their IDs.

There were several rules for what they could use and how they could get it. We had all the rules written out clearly in an indexed booklet. We never had to open the book.

[jamboi]

103. What causes a person to have to show ID? Does everyone show? nt

[seriousstan]

109. The only time we ask for ID is from those that registered online

or by mail or in person AND didn't show ID or give the last 4 digits of their SSN at the time.

You show it at registration or you are asked for it when voting.

Personally, I would like to see IDs mandated.

[seriousstan]

110. This is the machine we use.

[jamboi]

95. What kind of tapes are the votes recorded on? Paper, magnetic? And

what are the cartridges that you talk about?

[seriousstan]

104. Both paper and magnetic. It is redundant.

There is one magnetic cartridge in each machine. Each cartridge has three independent registers. These are read out at the close of the polls on a paper tape.

[read the law first]

97. were the lines that you experienced this time the longest in your memory?

were they about the same for a normal presidential year?
were they longer than a normal presidential year?

did the last person in line wait later than normal? about the same as normal? or did the last person in line leave earlier than normal?

[seriousstan]

105. HUGE. Never saw this many voters or lines.

We had over twice the voters we had ever had. The last person in line voted early in the morning Nov. 3. Just before 1AM.

[ewulf]

124. 1 AM!?! 1 AM!?! Now THAT is late!

Sounds like voter supression to me.

Thanks, seriousstan, for your response to my post above :)

[seriousstan]

127. You are welcome

[jamboi]

101. As a Democratic Official do you think most Ohio Dems are avid about

getting the recount done? If so, why aren't they more vocal about it. Where's Kucinich? He made some statements at first, but we haven't heard much from him since.

[seriousstan]

I was at the protest downtown Sunday.........about 60-75 people.

I posted pictres Sunday night. Pathetic.

[read the law first]

106. You are kind to answer our questions. Thank you and good night. n/t

[seriousstan]

108. My pleasure.

[jamboi]

111. Thanks!!! n/t

[seriousstan]

112. Did you get this???

Our machines are just like these

[AntiFascist]

118. My last question....

is that a Triad machine?

I do appreciate your time.

[seriousstan]

119. I don't think so, we have had these for over 10 years.

I recall something like "Shouptronics" on it, but I can't be sure.

On edit: I googled and, sure enough, that is a name of a voting machine. I don't recall the model number but the picture I posted looks just like it.

[jamboi]

123. Okay, I figured out that the company is Daher, formerly Shouptronics

Here's a link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15310-2004Oct7_5.html
Oct. 12: Bye-Bye Buttons

" Bernalillo County, N.M., might join the touch-screen bandwagon. The Albuquerque Tribune reported that the county commission was scheduled to vote on whether to buy new voting machines made by Sequoia Voting Systems to replace its old push-button Danahers (known popularly at one time as the Shouptronics), by early next year. The county would have to request a $3.6 million no-interest loan from the state to buy the machines, the paper reported, noting that another $1 million or so would come from federal funds authorized by the Help America Vote Act."

AND
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:tbcwJEp4-cUJ:www.abqtrib.com/politics/110900_global.shtml+Shouptronics&hl=en&lr=lang_en
"The Shouptronics had been sold to the county by Election Services International, whose president was Ron Gentry, then the Democratic state representative from Belen. Gentry said in 1996 that the delay in Bernalillo County was caused by Woodward's failure to instruct election workers in the proper way to unjam the machines quickly.
The Shouptronics are "direct-entry" voting machines. Voters push buttons rather than mark paper ballots. At the end of the voting day, cartridges recording the votes must be extracted and hand-delivered to a computer at the county clerk's office for tabulation."

AND
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE3/
"While researching the book, "VOTESCAM", the Collier brothers actually managed to videotape members of the League of Women voters forging ballots, and found hard evidence that Shouptronics and Printomatic vote machines were rigged in the Dade County Elections. In the Shouptronics, the wheels of the mechanical counters were shaved to cause miscounts. In the Printomatic machines, a malfunction revealed that the paper tape with the voting results had been pre-printed before the voting even started! The Colliers, along with attorney Ellis Rubin, handed the evidence to the assistant State Attorney for Florida. Sadly, that assistant State Attorney was Janet Reno, who in a pattern we have all become too familer with, killed the investigation. 60 Minutes taped a segment on the Dade County Vote Fraud, but never aired it."

[americanwoman]

125. Argh!! Shouptronics??

Isn't that the machine from Ransom Shoup, and wasn't he convicted of vote fraud? (A long time ago.) I'm just saying ...

[americanwoman]

126. Ransom Shoup Ref...

http://residentbush.com/Aftermath-2004_Angry-Girl.htm

"Last year, two of Diebold's top executives, Howard Van Pelt and Larry Ensminger, moved over to Advanced Voting Solutions, which is the new name of the scandal-ridden voting company Shoup Voting Solutions.

In 1971 Shoup Voting Machine Co. had been indicted for bribing politicians in Florida. In 1979 Ransom Shoup was convicted of conspiracy and obstruction of justice during an FBI inquiry into a Philadelphia election. Shoup got a mere three-year suspended sentence."

Damn, we are so broken. I'm ready to join you in that drink, seriousstan.

[seriousstan]

128. i'll pour

[jamboi]

131. Hmmm... how is AVS related to Daher, which is the current name of

Shouptronics according to the article I referenced above.

[jamboi]

130. Hmmm... interesting. Links? n/t

[jamboi]

120. Thanks, do you know the manufacturer? n/t

[seriousstan]

121. shouptronics

Dont expect that fast typing response. I have definitely been drinkin. :beer:

[americanwoman]

114. Thanks, read_the_law and jamboi

for sticking around to follow up on the questions. And thanks, Ohio elections person for answering them.

[seriousstan]

116. Your welcome.

[seriousstan]

117. I need to get a drink, I will check back tomorrow. I hope I helped.

[sharman]

129. A few questions

1) How are the pollbooks secured? How do you know that the official reports from your precinct matched the numbers you saw when you folded up your tent election night--did you keep notes?

2) You seem to have a great familiarity with this precinct. And you were very impressed with the turnout--clearly, the electorate in this neighborhood was very motivated. Did the offical results match your expectations? Given the twofold increase in turnout in a heavily Dem area--did that translate into a greater percentage of Dem votes than previous elections, same distribution between Dem and Repub (equal turnout efforts) or?

3) I take it that you get your voter totals from the machine tabulations? Or is there some other way that you keep track of the number of voters casting votes? I assume you don't check it against the voter sign ins?

4) Was there a significant variance between number of voters voting, and total votes cast for president? How did this statistic compare to previous elections?

5) You and fellow judges were obviously surprised and not completely prepared for the large turnout. Do you attribute the turnout to new registrations, or greater turnout from previously registered citizens who did not vote in previous elections?

Very much appreciate your lending your special knowledge and time to us enquiring minds

[seriousstan]

132. The poll books are always kept with the presiding judge.

No I don't write the numbers down, but I always remember the numbers of our precinct so I can discuss the outcome with my family and friends.

We were even more overwhelmingly Dem this last election than ever before. I didn't really expect this but it didn't surprise me. It appeared that almost all of the extra registered voters voted Dem.

The voting authorization slips are numbered. We begin with number 1000 and proceed from there. So if someone in line has a vote authorization slip numbered 1780, they are the 780th person to vote in our precinct. The machines also keep track on a red display on the back of the machine.

In my precinct, almost everyone cast a vote for president. There were a few idiots who cast a writein vote for fictional people, like Sweaty Mcbutt.

New registration. We had a major influx of people who said this was their first time voting ever.

[lonestarnot]

133. How far are you from Fairfield County and are you big enough to go sit

on the machine that is miscounting that they want to remove and replace with another?

[seriousstan]

134. I am less than 50 miles away and I don't appreciate the comment about me

weight. I am big boned and retaining water......like Hoover dam. :evilgrin:

[lonestarnot]

162. Well sorry about the weight, but I was inferring SIZE, like in big enough?

:hug:

[BushSpeak]

135. According to Arnebeck, long lines caused a 20% loss in votes

This came out in the Columbus hearings on Monday. Arnebeck called someone to testify who did a door to door canvas in a couple of Columbus precincts to do documented study on the the effect of long lines on voter suppression. The figure they cite is that 20% left the lines without voting?

I don't know how this applies to your precinct, but I feel deeply saddened for all the people who had their enormous hopes dashed by such practices.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

148. At this precinct there would have to be "walk offs" from the line

The last voter cast their vote at 1AM???!!! There is no way that that many people would wait for 6 to 7 hours and nobody would leave.
The question is how many left?

[seriousstan]

156. I have no idea.

[unpossibles]

136. first off

thanks for the hard work and info sharing.

this is what bothers me (and bothered me in my own precinct)

"HUGE. Never saw this many voters or lines.
We had over twice the voters we had ever had. The last person in line voted early in the morning Nov. 3. Just before 1AM."

why, if there were twice as many (and my polling location in Columbus had possibly more - the line at it's shortest was 1.25 hours, and at the longest 3-4 hours).

So if the lines were so long all over the city, why wasn't turnout higher? I can't wrap my brain around that one - and it's one of the first things which made me question the results.

[seriousstan]

138. Do you have a link to total voter turnout in Ohio

for this election and in the past? I hadn't heard about an unusually low turnout. Thanks.

I found thid on the Dem party site http://www.ohiodems.org/index.php?display=ReleaseDetails&id=190561...

"In a close election, John Kerry set a record for a Democratic candidate in Ohio receiving 2,659,644 votes. That was a 21 percent increase over the amount received by Al Gore in 2000."

So if bush got even more votes than this, that would look like an over 20 percent increase in voter turnout.

[unpossibles]

139. it's around here somewhere.

I just meant that if the turnout (which was higher than usual - don't get me wrong) was up roughly 12% yet the lines were three times longer, it just seems... funny. I do not expect there to be 300% turnout, but it just seems strange and I am trying to understand it.

[kk897]

140. yeah, I know, and it's not just in Ohio

I remember seeing coverage on election day of lines in other states, like I want to say NC and FL, people lined up around the block.

Yet in the end, the turnout wasn't a record high for Ohio and I don't think anywhere. For those who were around for the record turnout election (I think it was the Kennedy election? does anyone know?) were the lines that long?

[seriousstan]

141. We only missed the record by 2 percent.

I believe we had a 68 percent turnout and the record was 70 percent.

[Celebration]

142. why not a record?

There certainly was record voting across the country. So why not a record vote in your precinct? Oh, no, couldn't be the lines.........How does the two percent decrease from the record in this particular precinct compare to the GOP precincts in Ohio? And how many hours did they have to wait? Yes, it is voter suppression. Just because there weren't guns placed at the head, it doesn't make it less so........

[seriousstan]

143. I was referring to the state wide totals. This was a record for our

precinct. The wait started at about an hour and quickly grew to four and then six hours. The last voter voted about 1AM Wed. Nov 3. I have no problem if you see this as suppression. My intent with this post was to give insight into the working AT the polls. That is all I do, work the day of the election...at the polls. I make no decisions about the number of machines. I tried to get more machines and couldn't so I did the best I could and tried to keep people as happy as possible. I had no time to stand and watch the line to see people leave, so I can't tell you how many left. I am sure there must have been some. Most of the people I saw were getting close to voting and were pretty darn happy about it.

I didn't have time to form any conspiracy theories at the time.

[AntiFascist]

145. What also seemed strange was....

how the MSM immediately started spinning stories about how the youth vote didn't show up, yet the religious Right had somehow become activated and was showing up. :wtf:

[insane_cratic_gal]

144. what precint?

What was the number of Poor/or minorty/young voters you saw come through.
Or where you working the suburbs?

[seriousstan]

150. I like my anonymity,

so just say I am very close to the OSU campus area, the poorer south side not the richer Clintonville area.


College students and low rent. Less than 20 percent home ownership.
About 30 percent black. Income under 30K, maybe 50K per household.

[insane_cratic_gal]

154. If you'd be so kind 1 more

How Many provisional ballots did you pass out that day?

Are you aware of how many provisional ballots at your polling station were passed out that day over all?

[seriousstan]

157. I think we had about 70 or so provisionals

We had over 50 provisional ballots. Meaning, we were issued 50 and had to request more when we got below 20. The extras arrived promptly.
Most of these were newly registered people or those that had recently moved. We normally use about 20-35 because we have a lot of college students and rentals.

[bobbieinok]

147. thank you very much for your willingness to do this - very interesting

[seriousstan]

151. Your welcome

[Hamoth]

153. What do you think of hte question in this thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x168179

[seriousstan]

158. I believe the Triad machines are the machines that read the punchcard

ballots. Only provisional ballots are punchcards at our precinct. We vote on a machine from Shouptronics. I have posted pictures of it in the thread.

The machines we use have flashing red LED's that go solid when you push your choice.

Our precinct is heavy Dem. About 700 for Kerry and 100 for Bush. From what I know about the demographics of our precinct, that sounded about right.