If you had five minutes to explain the VOTE FRAUD story ...

[Stephanie]

Say you had five minutes on-air to explain what's going on - what would you say? The story is so intricate and technical and involved at this point I wouldn't know where to start. If you wanted to get people up to speed on this, in a nutshell, what would you say?

Please give me your best five minutes on where we are in VOTERGATE.

[displacedtexan]

1. We know they cheated, but we can't prove it definitively.

Because there is no paper trail where most allegations of voting irregularities took place (not to mention the obvious voter suppression tactics cited by numerous witnesses), and because the machines can be accessed remotely (from untraceable cell phones and/or modems), we will never be able to prove to the world that George W. Bush actually won the election.

You'd think that Republicans would want definitive proof that George W. was actually elected this time, wouldn't you?

[propagandafreegal]

2. I would say it was approached in a multifaceted manner

then do quick bullets on each aspect

- Voting machines hacked
- Voter supression/intimidation
- Voter Rolls purged
- Retirement homes bribed to have all their old folks vote Bush.

etc.

[Goldeneye]

3. I hadn't heard about the retirement homes

where'd that happen?

[propagandafreegal]

28. Yes, it was reported on Michael Moore's election fraud site and when I

discussed it with friends a girl I know said that when they went to see her grandma in the home she had an I Voted sticker on. The grandma is senile.

[Stephanie]

31. First I have heard of this

Any more info? Who would do this? Was it organized?

[propagandafreegal]

34. The only link I had was on M.Moores site but he removed it...

But my friend had this happen to her granny.

[skids]

53. I'll attest to that.

I read a story in MM's electionstories about a nursing home director coercing a granma to sign a Bush absentee ballot despite her enfeebled protestations. Even in her dementia she knew she wanted to vote Kerry.

And Micheal has taken down the link. We should get on him about that. We need that data and anything else he left unused in his inbox, because it wasn't punchy enough.

[AmerDem]

39. preying on the sick and weak

I can't wait until these bastards meet their maker. I guess it's more of that all loving moral value system they so talk about. Sad indeed!

Thanks for sharing this I wasn't aware.

[zann725]

43. At least in Ohio. I remember hearing an account of a Woman whose Mother

had Alzheimer, and unbeknownst to her daughter, was shuttled to the polls in a van by Repugs (along with other's from her mother's retirement facility). She learned that later in the day when she was later told that the Repugs further accompanied many of the Elderly INTO the voting booth to 'help' their unsteady hands with the vote. She was so irate that her Alzheimer mother was no doubt duped into voting for Bush.

[intheflow]

5. Retirement homes?

I've missed this story somehow. Do you have a link to this retirement home allegation?

Gracias,
intheflow

[KittyWampus]

7. Good Idea Breaking It Down Into "Old Fashioned" & "New Fangled" Fraud

IMO.

I'd start,

"Well, there's old fashioned fraud like purging Democratic voter roles, tossing out Dem. Registration and not sending enough machines into Democratic areas on Election Day even when there were spare machines available. All that was done on a massive scale in multiple states...

And THEN there's the new fangled Fraud centered around Electronic Voting equipment... Electronic Voting Machines with no paper ballot to verify voter's intent in case of recount and Electronic Voting Tabulators... both of which were built by GOP-donating companies... both of which built with massive security faults that INVITE fraud.

Then there's WHY it's probable there was fraud- Exit Poll discrepencies.

And all the occurances of cover ups since Nov. 2nd.

[EFerrari]

54. That's what I did when I was to present 5 minutes on the topic

here in SF late November.

It was a good exercise because I had to come up with a handout. So, I broke it down into low tech, high tech and combo fraud. It works really well. Even better now, that so much more has come out.

[mattclearing]

4. Some talking points...

Exit polls - The media consortium that commissioned the exit polls will not release them. Why?

Ohio recount - Kenneth Blackwell has waited until the absolute last second before electoral voting in Ohio to begin the recount. Why?

John Zogby, who has stated his confidence in his polling that predicted a Kerry victory, sent a representative to John Conyers' forum. Why?

Katrina Sumner, who brought allegations that overnight tampering may have occurred in Greene County, was run off the road by three large Chevy Suburbans on her way home from staking out the Elections Board there. Why?

An election worker in Ohio has filed an affidavit stating that she witnessed a TRIAD election technician post a cheat sheet to ensure that totals would agree with the official count, making a hand recount seem unnecessary. Why?

A recount in Ohio that failed to match totals was chalked up to machine error after discussion with Secretary of State Ken Blackwell's office, rather than triggering the full recount that such an outcome is supposed to trigger. Why?

[Stephanie]

19. Those are great

Thanks. Blackwell's obstructionism is the key, IMO. If he has nothing to hide, why is he hiding? Why not answer Conyers' questions?

[MarkusQ]

37. Some more

This is not a partisan issue. If we have crooks selecting who runs the country everyone suffers. Even if you like the person they gave you this time, what makes you think you'll like the next one?

Selective distribution of voting resources causes more lines; by suppressing/capping the votes for the candidate they don't like, they can swing national elections. This has been very well documented.

Election officials have been caught throwing out poll tapes, ballots, and other public records.

--MarkusQ

P.S. IIRC it was two suburbans.

P.S. Also see (if you want a funny approach) my What if they ran banks the way they run elections? riff.

[mattclearing]

42. Thanks for the correction.

My bad.

[EFerrari]

55. Comedy, btw, is a great way to get people to think about this. n/t

[OKthatsIT]

6. Do a Ross Perot.....show graphs.

simplify using statistics, demographics, with simple statements.

E.B.White and Flash MX!

[bearfan454]

8. I would simply say this:

Bush got more votes than there are voters in several precincts and counties. That is impossible.

[LiberalEsto]

9. There is growing evidence

being compiled by Democratic and third-party investigators that vote counts in the recent presidential election were tampered with in order to give Bush artificially high numbers of votes, leading to his declared victory.

In some states, particularly in Ohio and Florida, statistical analyses show that electronic voting machines may have been rigged to switch Kerry votes to Bush, fail to count Kerry votes, or create nonexistent votes for Bush.

This theory is supported by studies indicating that post-election results in voting districts with electronic machines differ significantly from pre-election polls and exit polls showing Kerry in the lead. Results these poll numbers. Suspicion is increased because some of the key manufacturers of these machines are Republican donors.

In addition, many would-be voters allege that they were discouraged from voting due to intimidation or long waiting lines. This happened in districts with high numbers of minorities who traditionally support Democrats. In some instances the waits were created because not enough voting machines were supplied by Republican election officials.

There are other instances, including the post-election lockdown of machines in Warren County, Ohio, that seem to show a strong pattern of illegal efforts to change election results for a Bush victory.

[BR_Parkway]

11. Great language, but if I might suggest one change

the first line:

Independent investigators and All political parties except the Republicans.....

[LiberalEsto]

13. Thanks, I wasn't aware there were others

but are you sure about all political parties? I think there are some right-wing parties that wouldn't be behind this.

[BR_Parkway]

23. Most folks have never heard of them, but the Greens & Libs are

it will make folks think at least.

[Junkdrawer]

10. I'd focus on the "Republican takeover of the nation's vote counting"...

angle.

It started with the Urosevich Bros. and the right-wing extremist Christian billionaire Howard Ahmanson in the early 80's. And now the brothers Urosevitch et al count 80% of the votes in this country. And it's clear that, in several key states, the Republicans have placed the chairman of Presidential re-election campaigns in the Secretary of State position. The result? Story after story, coming from whistle blowers, has shown that every method fair or foul, legal or not, is being used to throw the vote.

[oscar111]

12. "Top 2O vote Outrages": thread exists already...

In it, i call for "fishers" to go into the fact tidal wave, and especially the DU Project Team massive threads... to pull up the very best facts and put them in one place. A place that "bubbles" with constant new Top 2O items, dropping some and adding better ones as new ones appear.

The Team workers who assembled the massive threads might just recall the outstanding ones.. no need for anyone to re read the huge mass.

I also list my top few, and link to other attempts at this.

Democratic Underground Forums - "Top 20 Vote Outrages" needed.BEST is lost in tidal wave of info.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=154748

[Stephanie]

16. Also, the "privatization" of the vote

Talk about unprecedented!

[TumorSupressor]

21. Make sure to drive home the point that

the republicians are hell bent on privatizing every aspect of our government. They want to give way away much of the public commonwealth and now they are pivatizing our vote! Frame the arugument by showing what they already have given away and what they want to continue to dole out to their friends. They are literally giving away our democracy and we need to fight for it. Even if the media won't.

[MarkusQ]

45. I'd keep it non partisan

I'm having the best luck convincing Republicans, but only because I'm keeping the pitch very non-partisan. When I have to mention party politics I do so obliquely (e.g. red-team / blue-team, or "a faction within the xxx party") to avoid triggering knee-jerk reaction.

Don't talk about changing elections, talk about saving our democracy. And talk to everyone. It works.

--MarkusQ

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

14. see garybeck's excellent work----the one-page flyer thread

[Stephanie]

17. Just printed, thanks

Very helpful.

[BeFree]

15. Votingland..

There's nothing wrong in Votingland.

Everybody's vote is welcomed, and all available means are used to make sure everyone's vote is counted.

Why, they have these fancy machines made to count the votes just right. In fact, they are so developed there are only about 15 different kinds of machines now used. Or 20, I forget.

Anyway, you know, voting has now become so perfect that there are hardly any questions asked anymore. They have it down to a science, I tell ya. No problems.

Remember the talk about how the Vote might have been stolen in past years? Well that don't happen no more. Our good and faithful Congresscritters passed a really good law, really quick, called HAVA, which gave a boatload of money to the companies that make the 15 or so different machines, and we can trust them, eh?

It's such a great system that, soon enough, even our credit cards will use the same process and we can do away with paper evidence altogether. Think of the trees we will save!

Thank Gawd, that we can finally put away our fears that the only right we have left, (actually it's not a constitutional right, the right to vote for our rulers), is in safe hands.


Computers Rule!

[New Earth]

18. when you do this, can you be sure to say Election Fraud

please?

[Stephanie]

20. Vote Fraud does not equal Voting Fraud

"Voting Fraud" implies the fraud was done by the voter. Vote Fraud implies somebody messed with the votes. IMO. Election Fraud, Vote Fraud - same difference.

[New Earth]

29. i don't think so

maybe it's just me. i know i'm being a pain in the ass about it, but it's not just 'vote' fraud, it's all around fraud. and still with just the word 'vote' in it, could imply it has something to do with the voter making a 'fraudulent vote'.

[Stephanie]

30. Well then we disagree

.

[IAMREALITY]

40. You're Right Faye! People Really Need To Keep Reading Your Thread On It!

[jbond56]

22. The party of old white men...

did everything they could to suppress americans from voting. They knew people would not wait in line more than a few hours and if they did they could still challenge thier vote. They only needed to discourage 10-15 voters per poll location. They have done every thing to slow down the counting of votes. They know with 30% of the vote that can never be confirmed and as long as they are in power they win. People believe what they see on tv and if someone disagrees on tv they are the target of a massive campaign to discredit them. Republicans will even ignore/disagree/spin video footage. (i.e. video of soldiers breaking the iea seal on explosives)

[ImfromMaine]

38. Old white men

My father is an 85 year old white man who has voted Democrat forever.
Unfortunately he is no longer able to vote. There are/were millions of people like my dad who voted for FDR and continued to vote Democrat until they died or lost their ability to make sound judgement. Wether or not fraud can be proved the Democrats can no longer count on these votes as the boomers are moving to the right. What I mean is there are dozens of factors that swing election results and you will see if you look at "other" websites that those holding the opposite point of view also believe that fraud was comitted except in reverse.

[jbond56]

48. no offense to your dad but

the repub party is and has been ruled by old white men. The dem party has been more inclusive but still is dominated by men. I challenge you to prove the repub party did not engage in voter suppression. Election fraud is a great American tradition and I do not dispute that both sides are guilty. The fact that one party strives to keep people from voting is hard to dispute. If you know of such cases "in reverse" please point me to where I can learn about it. In my opinion if you are a citizen and pay taxes you should automatically be registered and allowed to vote. I believe restricting ones right to vote is the most unamerican thing you can do.

I think the repub party hates America. Think about it. When they are done we will have to legalize freedom.

I think the dem party has major flaws and needs some serious help.

As far as boomers moving to the right, I think the 30 year campaign by the right has been very effective. Most of the boomers think social security is in crisis. Not because they researched it. I think it has to to do with hearing they will never see the money they pay in a couple million times. The GAO says it is solvent till 2052. A small change like moving the cap from 86000 to 100000 or maybe having it kick back in at 2000000 would make it solvent for your grandchildren's children.

The fact that 30% of the pres vote was on machines that have no paper trail means you cannot prove who won. Much less prove fraud. That will continue to be the case until someone wins by a 31% margin.

I hope I wasn't rude and truly meant no offense to your father.

[tex-wyo-dem]

24. First of all, let's get the terminology right....

It's not "VOTERGATE," it's either "VOTEGATE" or "ELECTIONGATE" or whatever. "Votergate" makes it sound like corruption was committed by voters.

I've been wrestling with this myself. The story and details are so multifaceted, broad AND specific that it's hard to explain it in just a short description.

I would start with a verifiable fact that will, at the beginning of the discussion, knock their socks off.

My idea has been to start with the electronic voting machines and tabulating databases and stating that:

- The fact that the security of these systems is laughable and can easily be compromised by any average hacker.

- The fact that the newer systems have no paper trail.

- The fact that our voting systems are run and controlled by four or five companies, every one of which have heavy Repuke ties.

- The fact that the design of these systems is "confidential" to these same companies...not even the government has reviewed them.

- The fact that there is no government oversight on the specification, design and security of our voting systems.

These facts alone should make even the most skeptical understand that our votes are up for wholesale.

After you break the ice with this, then you start going into the details of 2004 (i.e. exit polls, studies, voter suppression, etc.).

[renaissanceguy]

25. With all these valid points....

I don't know how anyone of sound mind could possibly brush it all off and call the election fair. Many Dems are guilty of this too....like the ones that tell us just to move on.

----------------------------------------
Buy liberal, anti-Bush, and other outspoken political merchandise at www.cafepress.com/liberalissues

[Stephanie]

26. Point taken re: Votergate

It's the details of 2004 in a nutshell that I am looking for. So many stories, and only five minutes. Triad, Blackwell, NH, NC, NM, WA, FL, let alone OH, 10 hour lines, registrations lost, machine shortages, Conyers hearings, Blackwell obstreperousness, Arnebeck suit, Kerry joining suit, exit polls, polling place lockdown, etc. etc. Too much information!

[AtLiberty]

27. I usually start explaining electronic vote fraud by asking...

Have you ever wondered the GOP wasn't remotely concerned with electronic vote fraud before, during or after the election?

Why is that?

Could it have anything to do with the designers of the voting systems and software contributing to Republican campaigns?

(Then I discuss a brief history of Diebold, ES&S, etc.}

And that's why the candidate who was favored to win by all indications lost. That's how a guy who couldn't find a coherent sentence in the debates even if he used two hands and a flashlight won.

Then I usually end with the zinger, "Next time, let's not bother holding elections. It's a waste of time, money and effort. Let's not listen to another smear of a decorated war hero. Let's just annoint the next numbskull the Republican party chooses and be done with it."

[november3rd]

32. Suppression and Tabulation irregularities

All this in a partisan, conflict of interest managed election.

REVOTE!!

(15 seconds)

[GuvWurld]

33. Re-Frame It - Conditions Do Not Exist For Elections Beyond Question

We CANNOT continue to maintain the burden of proof for demonstrating fraud. This burden does not rightfully belong to us and every ounce of energy we invest is met with equal or greater diversionary tactics. Here is the re-frame: Right now conditions do not exist for us to have elections that are beyond question. This is another way of saying we have no BASIS for confidence in the legitimacy of US federal elections. There is not one change that will singlehandedly make our elections legitimate beyond question. In the No Confidence Resolution there are eight specific positive developments which, taken together, could restore a BASIS for confidence. They are:

1) all private corporations are divested of ownership in election machines, and
2) clean money laws keep all corporate funds out of campaign financing, and
3) any future mechanisms for voting conform to a uniform national standard and produce a verifiable audit trail for every vote, and
4) all votes are cast on the same day, designated as a national holiday, with the exception of absentee ballots which will be granted to applicants meeting a narrow list of federally determined criteria, and
5) all votes are counted publicly in the presence of citizen witnesses and credentialed members of the media, and
6) equal time provisions are observed by the media along with a measurable increase in local, public control of the airwaves, and
7) presidential debates contain a minimum of three candidates, and are run by a non-partisan commission comprised of representatives of publicly owned media outlets, and
8) ranked choice voting, also called instant runoff voting, is implemented for federal elections (see H.R. 5293);

Learn more about the the strategy and talking points of the No Confidence Movement.

Also see related thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=154267

[s-cubed]

35. I use a variety of the points, mostly the massive and deliberate

disenfranchisment, and then point to where where is incontrovertible evidence, like Volusia County, and now, the technicians tampering with the machines before the recount and telling poll workers how to fix the recount. Then I offer to send them the e-mail I have prepared which goes into much more detail and has enough links to keep them busy for days. Anyone want a copy of the e-mail, let me know.

[berni_mccoy]

36. Before e-Voting, having an affect on the outcome of a national election

Required coordination of a massive (tens of thousdands) number of people. With e-Voting with/without paper trails... the outcome of the election can be manipulated by a much smaller group (100-200) of people if you plan carefully. It's a matter of scalabilty. Think about it... before Napster, it was very difficult to affect the sales of record companies because copying and distribution required a great deal of work. Now, with the Internet and tools like Napster, a record company's sales can be directly affected. This scalability factor is why Napster was outlawed. And this scalability factor is exactly why e-Voting ought to be outlawed.

[Duncan]

41. I would start with the exit polls...

Why are they a valid indicator in Ukrane but not here? Why hasn't the raw exit poll data been released or subpoenaed?

No time to think more, I'm at work.

[Stephanie]

46. Well don't think at work!

Unless they give you a raise!

[smartvoter]

44. What are they hiding? nt

[wiggs]

47. I start with...

...the fact that Bush, Kerry, and the issues were all fraudulently described during the campaign by the republican campaign.

The basis of democracy is a well informed public (Lincoln). The public was lied to repeatedly by the republicans. This is no different than saying in a commerical that product x cures disease y, when it doesn't. It is fraudulent advertising.

The first fraud was dishonestly with respect to Bush, Kerry, and state of the nation. Second was voter suppression, third was vote tampering.

[Jo March]

49. A bulleted list would be great to develop

People like stuff in bite-sized chunks and if we have a bulleted list, then we can be to the point. We can also make it into a flyer for posting and sending out.

My two cents, anyway.

[proud patriot]

50. "it would be in bush's best interest to dispel the doubts

that half of America has about the conduct of the
election officials that co-chaired his campaign . If
there is nothing to hide why are Laws being broken
to keep public information hidden from non partisan
investigations ? "

[skids]

51. You don't get 5 minutes.

On TV, you get quips. Everything has to be done in a 25 second sentence that can be said without taking a breath, at relatively high volume, and with rehearsed clarity. If you try anything more, the opposing guest or the host will cut you off. On Faux, that's 10 seconds, not 25.

So what our TV representatives have to do is boil it all down, put stuff on flashcards, and memorize them:

"Poll workers were calling for machines because there's were broken down, disappeared since the primary, or just weren't where they needed to be to start with."

"X machines (ed - i forget the number) went unused. Unused, while voters stood in the cold rain. Unused, over the protests of poll workers."

"Republicans seem to be intent on treating laws as policies, policies as guidelines, and guidelines as meaningless."

[EFerrari]

57. Good point, really important

It's not unlike interviewing for a job, where you have about 30 seconds of the interviewers attention before the whole outcome of the interview is pretty much decided.

When I was teaching, I used to have students do a "30 second ME" commercial about themselves. They had to script themselves AND memorize it.

Then, I had them recite WHILE playing catch in teams of two with oranges. lol. They all thought I was nuts (probably true) but, they got really good at saying their lines without self-consciousness or stiffness.

There is a window of about 30 seconds. No time to explain anything, just to present maybe three clear, simple ideas.

[BlueOhio]

52. thats like trying to explain TiVo to someone in 5... cant be done. eom

[drh]

56. short summary of voter fraud

Try going to election.solarbus.org. There are is a one page and a three page summary of events to date.

[HEAVYHEART]

58. ...

:kick:

[McCamy Taylor]

59. Remind them that GORE WON FLORIDA but we didnt find out until...

....too late because George W. Bush's allies on the SCOTUS stopped the recount, then tell them George W. Bush's Ohio Campaign manager and SOS Ken Blackwell took 6 weeks to count around 100,000 provisional votes in order to run down the clock so that we wouldnt have time to recount the Ohio election until it was too late.

That should take about 60-90 secs depending upon how slowly you say each word. Repeat as often as possible on each of the major news networks, until everyone in America has heard it a half dozen times.

That is how a story gets planted in the consciousness of our country nowadays.

[henslee]

60. How bout 4 syllables... WE DONE GOT HOSED.