Is it possible that Kerry will unconcede?

[Ugnmoose]

It is beginning to look more and more that K/E Campaign is going to take a more active role in the voter fraud investigations. I think that for the campaign to carry any credibility with the Congress on January 6th, they are going to have to commit to the fact that the election was stolen from them. Perhaps they are just using this period to make sure there is a solid enough case for them to do so. I can't possibly imagine the scene in Washington on the 6th should this happen. Can you say "Constitutional Crisis"?

[Goldeneye]

1. I could live with a constitutional crisis...

I hope they're just waiting and collecting evidence. I don't know though...

[WritersBlock]

2. That crisis would be much better than the crisis we're in now, wouldn't it

I hope you're right....

[MissBrooks]

23. Those repugs have a website...

Those repugs have a website for their Inauguration...

http://www.inaugural05.com/

We should put one up that is for the anti-inauguration.

[JoMama49]

28. There IS already an anti-inauguration website ....

It's called "turnyourbackonbush.com" or something like that. I heard them talking about it on the Randi Rhodes show tonight.

[newyawker99]

50. Hi MissBrooks!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[berniew1]

56. He's already unconceeded; if Arnebeck's suit wins, Kerry wins

But when he sees the extent of the vote machine fraud that is being uncovered, he likely will formally unconceed as well

[Chimpanzee]

45. Why is everyone so afraid of a 'constitutional crisis'?

It's a good thing. It's about revealing a problem and correcting it. I hope we have a constitutional crisis - BIG TIME!

[texpatriot2004]

3. I have thought "Constitutional Crisis" was very, very likely

I can see that they are becoming more active. I am glad that they are taking their time. I would rather they take time to gather as much data as possible and to build a case. I think they are making, in the words of a fellow DUer, a souffle. What they are doing takes time. It's like making a gourmet meal, or a fabulous sauce, it takes time. It's much better if you invest the time and create something savory. I am glad to see them active. More importantly, I am glad to see them well informed and apprised of this issue.

[politicasista]

4. Agree Tex

:hi:

[Chimpanzee]

46. Yes, it takes time, because it's HARD WERK!! j/k

[texpatriot2004]

5. You know, I can't believe that people are not responding to

this thread. They have been bemoaning the concession and demanding the un-concession for weeks. What's up with that?

[femme.democratique]

6. I think people are afraid to believe it might be possible

in case they are let down

[genieroze]

7. Why, has Kerry said he will unconcede? eom

[TexasChick]

8. texpatriot2004, I really don't know. But, I just wanted people to know

that I never blamed Kerry for unconceding. Disappointed, but never angry at him. This election was stolen from him. Imagined if that happened to you. Wouldn't people want to investigate to find out how it happened and bring the perps down in revenge? I would. I guess you got to take the good with the bad. You're never gonna make everyone happy. But I am still torn between Kerry's actual involvement or not. I guess I'm still a wait and see person with him. He's definitely eye candy to me and he is still okay in my books. That will keep me appeased until then, I guess. LOL!

[helderheid]

11. I didn't understand at first

why he did but do now. I hope he unconcedes but I doubt that will happen unless he feels the case is strong enough. I hope it is! I feel it is. By God, I certainly have seen enough!!

[meisje]

12. It's pretty much over, that's why!

No actual proof/hard evidence of fraud that would hold up in court, the BBV fiasco and a recount in Ohio that is going nowhere fast.

[Sideways]

38. Tell that to Cliff

Wanna write Cliff and tell him he has no proof? [e-mail]

I'm sure you can convince him he is wasting his time, money, and reputation. Who are you to drop this negative bomb here? Pfftzzz.

[madison2000]

9. We need an analogy longer than a souffle, shorter than fine wine

more appealing than refrigerator mold. Nothing's coming to me.
Wait a minute - how long does it take to brew beer?!

:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

[jsascj]

44. How about a good case...

I'm married to a lawyer and one thing I know for certain...it takes a long time to gather all the evidence, pull it together in a coherent manner and learn ALL of the answers to all of the questions that will be put forth.

"Never ask a question you don't already know the answer for."

It takes time to know all of the answers.

[Chimpanzee]

47. Hi Madison!

I was born and raised in Madison, now live in Mc Farland. There seems to be an awful lot of DU'ers from the vicinity of Madison here. It would be great to get together for a beer with a group of us to piss and moan and SCREAM!

[Barney Rocks]

10. If he is planning anything,

he sure hasn't breathed a word of it.

Last week a mutual acquaintance spoke to him at some big benefit for some musician in Washington--NOTHING.

In response to questioning about his future plans--Kerry did mention he was planning to attend another big benefit before Christmas (this one for the Carter Foundation) and then he is going to the estate in Sun Valley Idaho to snowboard and relax for 3-4 weeks.

It sounds like he plans to come back to Washington just a little before inauguration day.

I am sure that he is very happy for all of the people who are going to fight for him and spend their money trying to overturn the election while he rests and recuperates.

[Gloria]

15. Hasn't he announced trips to Iraq and Pakistan sometime in

January???

Or is that a head fake??

[TexasChick]

17. Gloria, it will be late January, like the 20th I think. eom

[femme.democratique]

18. Um hello...

"In response to questioning about his future plans--Kerry did mention he was planning to attend another big benefit before Christmas (this one for the Carter Foundation) and then he is going to the estate in Sun Valley Idaho to snowboard and relax for 3-4 weeks. "

The senate is in session in January?? Yeah sure like he's going to advertise his plans.

[Doctor O]

19. If the recount does not change the totals

then there is no chance Kerry will unconcede. More likely he will distance himself farther from the fray to portect his credibility. He is looking at 2008 and if he ges involved, he will dirty himself and give his opponents more to talk about.

Ater reading the complaint filed by Arnebeck I have some serious questions about how a court could even consider hearing this, since it has very little actual substance with evidence and if the court does not decide to hear this based on the complaint, then it is over folks. The US Supreme court will not take it if the Ohio Supreme Court throws it out.

Arnebeck made several mistakes by trying to be cute and trap Moyer. His timing sucked, and I still do not believe he has enough evidence for any court to overturn this election. His case is not helped by the fact that Kerry has not joined the recount and thus has little legal standing in the recount or in the lawsuit.

Therefore as much as fellow DU members want this to change, once the recount is over, the rest will be relegated to the state of Ohio and the GAO to sort out.

[pat_k]

27. Focus on the ballots they blocked from being cast, not counting those cast

We need a fraud audit, not a recount. I never thought the numbers would change in a recount.

Identify the republican ghost votes. Seek rejection of results due to discrimination.

And if the courts do not provide a remedy, we must demand a political solutions.

In fact, we are already demanding it.

http://thedeanpeople.org

[newyawker99]

51. Hi Doctor O!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[LittleClarkie]

20. It might be true. But otoh, would YOU spill your guts to an aquaintance?

Leak city. That wouldn't be terribly clever, would it?

[texpatriot2004]

24. pretty transparent posting, wouldn't you say LittleClarkie n/t

[Barney Rocks]

37. wait and see.

If one of the January issues of People magazine has pictures of Kerry snowboarding and hanging out with the Arnold in Sun Valley--well then you owe me lunch.

I feel on pretty solid ground here--Kerry and family usually spend the Christmas and New Years Holidays at their ski home. He has been talking about the upcoming trip since the week after the election--and he is obviously still looking forward to it.

Nothing wrong with that either. I love to ski myself.

Hey--how come some of the people who claim to be huge Kerry fans--and say that they have followed him all thoughout the years--but they don't know that he ALWAYS spends quite a bit of the winter on the slopes? Surely if they were such big and long-time fans they would be aware of that? I have a pic of Kerry on the slopes hanging with several celebrities! Nothing to be ashamed of!

[Barney Rocks]

35. true--but would you say--

"I am going to Sun Valley for a few weeks" if it wasn't true?

[LittleClarkie]

39. Hell, it's Christmas. I don't begrudge him going home

For the record, I've only been a Kerryite since June. This is my first Kerry Christmas, so I haven't established patterns yet. (geez, I sound like a stalker.)

But I guess I was reading into your post that since he didn't mention to your mutual friend anything about Ohio or the election, that he had no plans re: the fraud. I reckoned he doesn't have to be physically in Ohio to be planning something.

But then I'm not banking on an unconceed. Just a recount and an investigation with a nice fat slab of election reform on the side.

I don't have the energy for any kind of "act now or we're all doomed" reaction at the moment. My sleep pattern is still pretty fucked up from the election.

[madison2000]

25. I hope visiting the Carter foundation is a way of bringing

Carter into this. He monitors elections all over the world, I've been waiting to hear him speak up about this one.

[Barney Rocks]

36. It is just a plain old ordinary fund raiser

for the Carter foundation--I am going myself (as someone's date). As far as I know, Carter himself is not even going to be there but his wife will be--maybe if Kerry has a secret message for Carter she will pass it on to him!

it will be an intimate affair with several hundred people--not much secret head to head plotting with Carter could take place in any case. (even if he WAS there)

it sounds like a dull evening--I know one of the kids from American Idol TV show is going to sing--it is mostly a rich people raising money kind of thing....not a smoky dark room with Democrats plotting--although that would be much more cool.

[SammyWinstonJack]

52. self delete n/t

[bunny planet]

13. We've already been living through a Constitutional Crisis

for the last four years since His Fraudulency was selected the first time. I say bring it on. Hell yes, Kerry will unconcede. Can't wait to get those flying monkeys out of the WH.

[TexasChick]

16. "flying monkeys"! LOL!! Stop putting down the flying monkeys,

bunny planet!! LOL!

[tandem5]

22. haha nt

[goodhue]

14. no

eom

[KenCarson]

21. yes, it's possible..in the right circumstances

he seems to be one of those long range planners anyway

[selmo7]

26. Crisis is opportunity: Constitutional opportunity n/t

[texpatriot2004]

29. Is it necessary to "unconcede" or just actively participate in

the fight against fraud? I mean, is there really going to be, or is there a need to have a formal "I/We un-concede" speech? I don't know, I am just asking. I think we are likely to see, like the Rev. Jackson said, JK (and JE even) taking a more active role as more and more info is revealed. Just a thought.

[Ugnmoose]

31. I think he must unconcede TP

He has to show the American people and the Congress that he "made a mistake" by conceding so early...that the facts now show without any doubt that multiple frauds were committed to take the election from him, and that he owes it to all the people who voted for him to retract his concession and fight for his rightful election to office.
One thing the Repukes cannot say is "Sore Loser". No one is his right mind would expect him to do otherwise.

[texpatriot2004]

32. Ugnmoose, you're brilliant...there goes the "sore loser" card

right out the window because anyone can see that's the thing to do. I think you're right about this. I was mostly thinking out loud. I am glad he's not a people pleaser or approval seeker who jumped right back in before the facts were gathered. Either way I am with him. I think he's smart,a born leader and a fighter. My gut feeling is that many, many brilliant people have put much time and thought into this whole deal. You know what's beautiful, I mean, besides the sore loser card gone (that was killer for Gore) is that the Rethugs are going to look so bad. I mean, they are gonna be looking really bad, like commies that are against counting the votes. How do you PR or spin your way out of that perception?

[Chimpanzee]

48. Plus if he unconcedes - just think of the MSM - They'll be melting down!

[Niche]

30. CATCH UP WITH THE NEWS GUYS! WHAT IS GOING ON ON THIS

SITE? KERRY IS INVOLVED IN THE RECOUNT. HIS LAWYERS HAVE BEEN THERE SINCE THE BEGINNING. The threads are starting to really suck. The comments are getting so ridiculous. GO BACK TO W LAND.

[Der Blaue Engel]

33. Um, I think you're misinterpreting the post...or I am

I think Ugnmoose is saying that as Kerry is now becoming more publically involved in the recount, s/he believes Kerry will unconcede. This is a GOOD thing. :)

(Am I correct, Ungmoose?)

[LittleClarkie]

40. I think it was the thread as a whole

I do feel like slapping the occasional "Kerry isn't involved" bash/rant.

Not keeping up with the news is excusable, but to bash someone based on what the poster DOESN'T know is indeed ridiculous. At least the poster could conceed that there are things that he/she doesn't know about what is going on.

[garybeck]

34. cut the guy a break

look, there are all kinds of people in this discussion with all levels of knowledge of what's going on. If someone doesn't realize how involved the Kerry lawyers are, you shouldn't come down on them. It's not their fault. It's the media's fault. Be glad there are still new people coming in who are starting to find out what's happening. But please be more positive towards new people and encourage them to learn more. Be helpful, not critical.

[Imajika]

41. Why would he unconcede?

The provisional and absentee ballots did not give him anything close to the numbers necessary to shrink the gap between he and Bush, which might have made a recount meaningful in regards to whom the ultimate winner is. Said recount is not finding much difference from the original count to date. Arnebeck's lawsuit has been tossed, and if refiled it will surely be dismissed for lack of evidence (especially considering the makeup of the Ohio Supreme Court). Kerry would be a fool to unconcede without any reason to believe that such a step had any chance whatever of resulting in victory.

I fail to see why Kerry should embarass himself, wreck his future political viability, and generally be shredded by the media for what is almost certainly a futile effort. Would it make Kerry a hero for some on DU? I am sure it would. But the result would still be the same, and Kerry would destroyed as a serious politician with real influence and power both inside and outside the Democratic Party.

If there had been a reasonable chance he could win, Kerry wouldn't have conceded in the first place. So far, his campaign team have been right on the money. There simply were not enough votes in Ohio, or anywhere else, for Kerry to win.

With some real evidence, and I do mean real evidence, that massive election fraud occured, and tens of thousands of votes were really switched from Kerry to Bush, I am sure Kerry would be the first one leading the charge to fight it. If such real evidence existed I don't have much doubt Kerry would unconcede, but at this time there simply is no evidence to support these massive Ohio and nationwide conspiracies.

Imajika

[liberalpragmatist]

57. I agree - and such actions would destroy the Democratic Party itself

It's not just about Kerry - if Kerry had not conceded and proceeded to embarass himself in a futile effort, he'll tar the Democratic Party with the label of sore loser for having failed to acknoweldge 2 elections - which would also minimize 2000, which truly was a theft.

Moreover, we can't cry wolf. Next time there's a close race, even for President, if the Democrat is narrowly behind but can make up the difference with disputed ballots, they wouldn't be able to credibly claim they might win given what a disaster Kerry would have led us through.

That being said, as a voting rights issue, I do think there should be a recount and I do think Kerry should be more outspoken about it and say somethings publicly about the count.

[mattclearing]

42. He shouldn't have to.

We have to find the votes before he can unconcede. This is all a bit ahead of ourselves.

[lonestarnot]

43. CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS!

CONYERS prepared to challenge Jan 6. We must be there!

[mopinko]

49. yeah, here's what he will say

i, john kerry, join the congressional black caucus' challenge to the election. hopefully, he will be surrounded by other dem senators. it ain't no "crisis", it is the constitutional process that is meant to be used when needed. now would be that time.

[Yancey Ward]

53. Oh yes.

If Kerry is mentally ill, and has an IQ of 57, then there is a good chance of him retracting his concession.

[Tomasj]

54. I really doubt it! "n/t"

[texpatriot2004]

55. kick it for ugnmoose