I'll bet the "New" Triad machines are clean...

[Junkdrawer]

Piecing together the evidence coming in from the attempted Ohio Recount, my current Best Guess is that the machines used to count the votes on election night were rigged.

Technicians came in later and removed the evidence, replacing the rigged boards with clean boards.

So how are they passing the 3% recounts? Looks like the actual punchcard decks have been replaced by machine punched decks ( see http://www.cardamation.com )synchronized to the reported results.

Moreover, depending on when the rigged results were programmed into the rigged tabulators, there's a good chance that the vote totals won't match the poll books. This would explain why J. "Katherine" Blackwell is so protective of those poll books.

If I'm right, then the evidence is to be found by checking the new decks for a lack of fingerprints and, more importantly, by checking the poll books. The later should be pursued in all haste as Blackwell will be scrubbing those next.

PS: If I get a chance later, I'll link to the evidence I used to come to these conclusions.

[CantGetFooledAgain]

1. Interesting...

...when you say "Looks like the actual punchcard decks have been replaced by machine punched decks " - what evidence do you have?

I'm not being argumentative, I've though for a long time that this kind of thing might well be part of the plan. The question is, what evidence do we have, and what do we need to do in order to secure proof?

I still can't understand how they can legally withhold access to the pollbooks. If it's illegal, how can they continue to get away with it?

[Junkdrawer]

4. Well, start here:

Another strange behavior from the local police:
As you probably know, volunteers have been watching the Greene County BOE 24 hours a day since the mysterious "unlocked door" last Saturday morning. I have several audio recordings of the local Sheriff stopping by the BOE and talking very politely with Katrina while she watched the building Saturday night and Sunday morning.

Those that volunteered for watching the building on Sunday and Monday night also had polite conversations with the local law enforcement when they stopped by during the night to check the building.

However, on Tuesday night, before the recounts were to start in Greene County on Wednesday, Katrina says that the "police did everything possible to make sure there would be no one there". Katrina stopped by the BOE on Tuesday night to find that several Police cars had "surrounded" the volunteers watching the building and that "police were threatening to jail this person".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=172886#173648

Let me be clear: I'm not on the ground in Ohio. But much of the independent evidence pouring in points in the direction of fixed decks.

[Ms. Toad]

2. The 3% recount has no relation

to the reported results.

3% of the ballots are counted by hand. Those same ballots are then run through the card reader. If the two new counts match, the remaining 97% are counted by machine.

The total machine count could be totally different than the reported results - all that matters, for purposes of the recount, is that the 3% hand count matches the 3% automated count.

[Junkdrawer]

5. Exactly. But the rigged decks would have to be close to the reported...

results - as indeed they are.

[understandinglife]

3. Interesting and I did read 'somewhere' that the 'ballots'...

...in those random selected precincts came out of their boxes all nicely, neatly, tiddytiddy sorted. Some interesting commentary on that here:

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&omm=0&om=52&forum=DCForumID4408

What is so very amazing is how so tiddy these republicans are from EVERY shift away from exit poll projections going to Bush, to ......., -- I betcha not a single piece of lint can be found on Rove's desk.

Peace.

06012005 -- what will you be Doing?

"I'm a patriotic American, not a pro-fraud theocrat"

[Junkdrawer]

7. Probably the strongest argument for my theory..

When we first heard of the Sherole Eaton report ( see http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/121604Z.shtml ) people were thinking that a rigged tabulator we being put into place. But that makes no sense - why put evidence into place? The thing to do is to remove, as much as possible, the evidence of fraud.

[demodonkey]

8. Yes they did. I witnessed this myself in another county.

<<...in those random selected precincts came out of their boxes all nicely, neatly, tiddytiddy sorted...>>

There were pre-sorted by the vote that was on them for President.

And there were no hanging chads, not even one in hundred of ballots.



(Yes already reported to the Green party recount people for their records.)

[Junkdrawer]

16. "They were pre-sorted by the vote that was on them for President."??????

:wow:

Now I would have gone to more trouble than that. Gawd...

Subpoena those cards. ASAP.

[demodonkey]

33. Yes they were. eom

[understandinglife]

18. Please send to Congressman Conyers office in MI and DC by FAX.

Thank you.

[understandinglife]

19. I've forwarded this to Mr Arnebeck, AfD and NVRI (n/t)

[s-cubed]

32. That was reported by an observer in Cuyahoga County: a long

string of votes for Bush, then for Kerry, etc. Sounds like presorting ballots to get the right totals, or new ballots punched to get the right totals.

Also, the technician's (triad) coat was heavy: probably replaced the hard drive with a clean one, since there are all kinds of traces left on hard drives unless you reformat them, and that takes time & effort to do & then reload. Let's hope. Michael squeals loud and clear to implicate lots of folks.

[Junkdrawer]

35. My two choices are hard drive and wireless remote access cards...

During the examination of the Diebold touchscreen stuff, there was some specualtion about wireless access built right into the motherboards.

[General Paranoia]

47. If they were that lazy and stupid they might have

used a card punch to get what they wanted. Inspection of a ballot "voted" this way should show it wasn't voted by hand as the holes will not have any fuzz at the corners. In fact you could probably prove which card punch did it if you can find the punch.

If someone has access to the purchasing or repair records it would be useful to see if they have a card-punch anywhere in the whole department statewide. Also the recount watchers might be able to find one if they know to look for it. The presence of one should be enough to spawn an investigation by itself. If they do, subpoena the ballots and the card punch. Have a lab check the holes and total the votes for all the races on a separate machine. Calibrate the second machine with a deck (made up by the lab) that you hand count after doing multiple matching machine counts.

One of these days we will find a thread that unravels the emperors new mandate. It is fun to contemplate how many hairs the puppet master has left on his head after realizing how many incriminating threads there are out here.}( :toast:

[Botany]

6. I live in Columbus, Ohio

Please explain to me..
1. Why did the triad, diebold, and EES techs have to come in before the recount?
2. In Hocking County why did the triad tech say to post some #s around to look
like their is a match?

All we have now is strong reasonable doubt. We need proof. I hope somebody
on the other side gets some guilt and steps forward.

However I saw and hear election rigging 1st hand. I have given sworn testimony
about what I saw & heard. I have no doubt that the fix was in Ohio.

Also I think Shelby County has pitched it's records already.

God I hate these evil bastards.

[Junkdrawer]

9. Quickly, then I have to run...

1.) See post #7 - They most likely came to remove evidence.

2.) Someone said that in Hocking county, different precincts than the ones posted by the technician were counted. Think about it: What would Triad tell dozens of technicians that were told to go out and swap hardware? How about: "No one wants to count their whole county, so let's upgrade the motherboards so that the machines run as well as possible." Perhaps this particular tech just took that idea to the next level on his own.

[pgh_dem]

10. As far as I know

the official explanation for #1 is that the machines had to be reprogrammed to recount only the presidential race. I figure the reasoning in the law there is so that a discrepancy in the Dog Catcher race on the 3% handcount/machine match wouldn't trigger a full county handcount. It still seems stupid to me, and invites tampering. (edit: of course using this official explanation to cover removal of evidence is a reasonable explanation)

I don't think anybody's even given a BS explanation for the 'cheat sheet'...all coverage of the weirdness in Hocking seems to avoid mentioning that allegation...maybe it lacks confirmation from other BOE employees (whereas it's been acknowledged that Mystery Mike was there)?

[rigel99]

11. OF COURSE THEY'RE CLEAN

but come on guys, why are dems such novices at the art of smart retort? Take one of their clean machines and one of their old machines and run a test, test 1000 votes where the same person is voting the same exact votes on both machines.... WHEN THE TALLIES come up different, you have your culprit.. you can assume the software inside is not tallying the votes appropriately, better yet, you can determine the exact algorithm for how it's fudging the #'s... the trick is getting the old machine legally... good luck!

[Junkdrawer]

46. "the trick is getting the old machine legally... good luck!"...

Yep. If the party shoes were reversed, the press roar would be 24x7 and the FBI would be swarming all over Triad HQ.

As it is, we get one designated "journalist" on MSRNC.

[BlueDog2u]

12. Kick!

Clean, chadless, sorted ballots in preselected precincts + exact match recounts + sherrifs threatening to arrest watchers of BOE headquarters + slashed tires + unprofessional intimidation by BOE personnell = don't recount everything by hand.

Confiscated poll books that, when seen, do match the exact duplicated totals in the recount of the clean, chadless, presorted ballots from preselecte precincts...hmmm

Something stinks.

[Junkdrawer]

15. And don't forget technicians using BS excuses to swap out parts..

A representative from Triad Systems came into a county board of elections office un-announced. He said he was just stopping by to see if they had any questions about the up-coming recount. He then headed into the back room where the Triad supplied Tabulator (a card reader and older PC with custom software) is kept. He told them there was a problem and the system had a bad battery and had "lost all of its data". He then took the computer apart and started swapping parts in and out of it and another "spare" tower type PC also in the room. He may have had spare parts in his coat as one of the BOE people moved it and remarked as to how very heavy it was. He finally re-assembled everything and said it was working but to not turn it off.

...

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/121604Z.shtml

[lthuedk]

13. More likely, they swapped harddrives. What is more troubling

is the FBI was informed, having more than enough reasonable suspicion, if not probable cause, to impound every machine that had no paper trail. In effect they allowed the biggest crime in our nation's history to be buried along with Democracy.

I wish it weren't so but their actions seem to be easy to summarize:

http://www.light-to-dark.com/prism.html

Say it aint so, guys.

[Dancing_Dave]

36. Broadly speaking, Buschco controlls FBI

However, some local or specialized agents have some degree of investigative independence. It's possible that local FBI in Ohio impounded some machines at Conyers request, and still have not revealed this, pending some further results.

The State of California impounded some Diebold machines, and subjected them to forensic analysis, leading to a victorious lawsuit against Diebold for a cool 2.6 million. Maybe some of what they found could be helpful to other investigators.

But Diebold was pretty well busted before the 2004 election, so repukes moved more towards counting on other repuke voting machine scam firms like Triad to do their rigging this time.

[tandem5]

14. yeah as a rule of thumb...

if they let us look at something... if they perform a recount willingly... then they have already cleaned up their mess.

[katalyst]

17. You're hitting one of the....

nails PRECISELY on the head

[Junkdrawer]

20. Aren't you Katrina? If so, how are you guys doing?

:hi:

[katalyst]

21. Yep..

Doing a lot of documenting today to get things to the appropriate attorneys, busy but else well. I don't have a lot of time to post, but this ended up in my email somehow posted on a list I'm on, case ohio.
I thought maybe I'd go ahead and post a few things here that I've posted there today.. maybe to lighten the spirit somewhat

Quotes from my emails to case's list:

Go in with a tape (voice) rolling and just ask to see all of those. Tell them you would like to get copies. Make sure you get back and front so you have their information and the date filed. Not sure if I said that before. Giving them heads up sometimes gives them time to think. Also if you haven't got it yet, but wait until the end of your copying because it'll up their suspicions.. ask for the tabulator data from October through Nov 19th. Some people say the 2nd, but I like the 19th ;) If you manage to get all of that then see if you can get copies of the poll books, with signatures. In the poll books it lists if they have been challenged and why in some ways. Also you can ask for a list of re-challenged voters, challenged voters, and deleted voters in 2004. All of this is proving interesting.

These are the sheets, which will be many of many, that documents the tabulator issues, read counts of precincts as ballots came in, when 0'ing outs happened, reboots and error messages. Also try to get them to state if Triad or whatever company has a direct link into their system. Make sure to ask if it is just the tabulator or main ballot holding system or if they are online as well with the BOE records system documenting voter reg info, etc. In Greene county they have access to connect to the main tabulation server and the BOE LAN. That's highly disturbing, because not only can they get info on voter's but they can change records in the computers to make them invalid to vote for NUMEROUS reasons. So then getting the names... they may have received reg cards entitling them to vote and not even asked to vote provisionally in some instances, but in others made to but rejected because info didn't match up. If you can't get to the roll/poll books you can get the names somewhere off the ballot envelopes or whatever and then start the work to contact these people one by one and get signed statements of their casting for president and down the ticket. They may give you trouble but if you can tell them they definitely did not count and they check it out and find they didn't then maybe they will call you back or whatever. Make sure if you get to this point that you tell them this isn't about being a Dem, rep, green. lib or whatever.. they're all parties being affected here actually and whether or not we should just focus on dems I cant see as legitimate. Saying every vote counts includes reps too. AND, if we anger them against their own party then somewhere people start talking.. I've seen it myself. Be the sneak! ....and good luck :)

Further, I don't know who does any security for the BOEs but I can tell you that if all are like Greene County, its not hard to get to info. I'm talking about security as to their networks. If it is the women (which are all the employees in Greene) that attends to this then there is a big problem. From what I gather, when they have any issues at all with ANY of their systems they contact Triad. Big warning lights should be flashing here. Any decent sysadmin would know what I'm talking about here and all they'd have to do is be a lil sly and take in a laptop and in the name of democracy and goodness ask for a desk to sit at and get hooked in and to be honest it wouldn't even take that to get to their systems. So what am I saying? Kindergartners are their security admins?

[katalyst]

22. Further...

I suggest this to people not just in Ohio, but in all states, in each and every county. Fraud is widespread and this is in large what one can do to help. Make copies of the rejected ballots, poll books, get all the info and start putting it in a place where everyone puts theirs. The more that can be proven across the board the easier it will get. Some that are in states that are not even questioning anything then this is the perfect time. The records shouldn't be locked down and it should make it easy to get copies. Don't make the mistake of thinking something might not be relevant. What I thought two weeks ago that wouldn't have been I'm rethinking now. Remember not only do we want to be sure that every vote is really counted, but also even for those blue states and counties we want the real numbers. If in blue areas across the US there are number difference from such info then that's more to add that votes could be given. This ends to add to the popular vote. Do not think you shouldn't do anything locally if you're in a blue state!!

[Junkdrawer]

23. Could you use one of these?

The Pocket DV4500 is the first AIPTEK digital camcorder employing MPEG4 format to store video clips. The DV4500 is capable of recording much longer (3 times) than traditional AVI format devices. An additional advantage of MPEG4, is to keep your recorded files small while retaining video and sound in TV-quality. Being a multi-function camera, the Pocket DV4500 is an indispensable companion for you to create and enjoy movies, high-resolution photos, MP3 music, voice annotation, as well as online video conferencing.

http://www.aiptek.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=R-PKDV4&Category_Code=DC1#features

It's a tiny, pocket sized camera, video camera, and digital voice recorder.

If so, let me know if there's a Target store near where you're at.

Better yet, PM me.

[katalyst]

24. That would be incredibly useful...

I'm currently using a kodak easyshare cx6330 with a 128mb memory card in it. While it works very well and does great on video and sound, it forces you to upload it from it rather often. It has been working, but I am dependant on others like Link TV and others to get copies of stuff I couldn't tape in full.

[Junkdrawer]

26. PM me...

That's the symbol above my name in any of my posts...

They have them at Target and I can send you an e-gift card...I'll need an email address where I can send it...

[katalyst]

27. It appears..

I do not have enough posts to use the pm

[Firespirit]

28. Katalyst

:yourock:

I wish there was something I could do to help now. But I am having to put myself through graduate school starting in the spring... the 'rents are having financial problems. I have already decided what my Thesis (I will be in computer science) will be, though: Security and reliability of voting systems.

:hi:

[katalyst]

30. Get any sort of poll records possible..

at your local BOE?

[katalyst]

31. get any sort of poll...

records that you can at your local BOE.. that is always a help

[katalyst]

25. Ooops..

I didn't read the rest of your post beyond the url. While that would be extremely useful I couldn't accept anything like that. I'm trying to keep things to an absolute bare minimum. Only enough to keep people going. See, most of the people I'm dealing with that can help me are doing so because they have been laid off. So they have nothing to lose really and have the time while waiting to hear back from interviews and what not, but haven't the funds. I went as far as could. So now it's just trying to keep them going as I said. That's why I said about the gas situation when I spoke to David. I don't know where those posts are here. Somewhere there's a link in my mail, but it must be hidden with the tons of other mails. As to the recording equipment I'm hoping to send all those back to who ever sends them in as good as condition as they are sent as soon as they have completed their jobs. Unless I'm advised by those people who sent them to send them on anywhere else that recounts or efforts are going on. So while I see the rest of your post and that's a quite nice offer. I don't think it would be somehow ok to accept such. I don't know really. I would dislike to be responsible for too much equipment because I would then have the need to pay it back, buy another one, or what not if it was damaged in any way.

As to pm'in you, I can't seem to do that. Thanks so much for the offer.

[Junkdrawer]

29. OK...Have dzika PM me if you change your mind...

:hi:

[Junkdrawer]

34. Kick

:kick:

[Junkdrawer]

37. Again

:kick:

[Junkdrawer]

39. Once more

:kick:

[leftchick]

38. Prof. Doug Jones agrees...

The machines have been compromised, which means the recount effort has been as well!

~snip~
On Wednesday, December 15, U.S. Representative John Conyers posted an affidavit from Douglas W. Jones, a professor of computer science and a voting technology consultant. In Professor Jones' opinion, the bizarre behavior by the Triad Company, which provides computer software and voting machines in 41 of Ohio's 88 counties, may have tainted the entire recount effort. A Triad employee took apart a computer used in the recounting process and inserted new parts as well as alleged modifications of the software. "As a result, the incident in Hocking County could compromise the statewide recount and undermine the public's trust in the credibility and accuracy of the recount," Jones stated in an affidavit.

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/996

[xxqqqzme]

40. bump

n/t

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Junkdrawer]

43. Damn. Flamed and I didn't even get a chance to read 'em...

Don't you just hate that...

[Zan_of_Texas]

44. Thanks for this thread, Junkdrawer.

I wasn't snapping that they were probably CLEANING up the machines before the recount. "Okay, company's coming. Hide the dirt where no one can see it!"

Okay, let me throw out a stupid question. Sort of related.

If I didn't know anything about the Ohio recount, here's what I would do.

I would take the random (really random, not preselected) precincts. Hand count the presidential race.

Then, I would compare the totals to the PRECINCT RECORDS OF THE OFFICIAL CERTIFIED COUNT.

Why would a machine tabulation have anything to do with the 3% part of the recount? The point is to agree with the certified count, isn't it?

If Blackwell et al say that Precinct Z got 400 votes for Kerry, then the precinct hand count should say the same, etc.

If the precinct hand count says 300 votes for Kerry, and a machine tabulation courtesy of Triad says 300 votes for Kerry, that doesn't reassure me! Have I misunderstood what they're doing?

[Junkdrawer]

45. Well, their main goal is to prevent all county wide recounts...

and they're going by those parts of the law they find convenient. And the law says that the hand recount should match that day's machine count.

Now, in fact the counts I've heard about are only one or two votes away from the reported totals. But, once again, look at Post #8 and what follows. Looks to me like they really did get a machine to punch up a nice, clean, matching deck.

[Junkdrawer]

48. Kick - Especially relevant today

:kick: