To spill the beans or to not spill the beans...

[Andy_Stephenson]

that is the question.

If I spill the beans...

The manure will hit the air circulating device.

If I don't I will seethe with anger and contempt.

What should I do?

[sabra]

1. SPILL! :-) It's going to come out soon anyway!!!

[onecitizen]

192. there is that rule ya know..........

that says if you mention something, you cannot NOT tell us what it is!! That's a rule here. So spill it......please. :-)

[RPM]

2. spill

gotta break some eggs to make an omlette.

[dweller]

3. Spill

or make chili...
you'll feel better for it.

:D

dp


edited for alternative suggestion.

[Goldeneye]

4. Do you really have beans to spill?

If they're big important beans, I'd hold off...

If they're not big big beans...please tell.

[sabra]

12. Good point, and I agree! n/t

[Andy_Stephenson]

15. Big old pot of beans

Counld gause major damage if spilled.

Should I wait till January?

[ohio_liberal]

19. Spill the beans

People should know what's going on.

[Goldeneye]

20. Don't do this to us

I'd crack for sure if I had to wait until January. Can you at least tell when we'll know whats happening?

[Pirate Smile]

21. January? What would be the point of waiting until January?

Is this different from whatever Kerry is going to do today?

[Andy_Stephenson]

26. Waaaaay

different.

Has nothing to do with Kerry.

[Pirate Smile]

32. Kewl!

[MelissaB]

36. Sounds like the shit needs to hit the fan. nt

[Chimpanzee]

42. You didn't trade your ma's cow for dem beans, did yer?

[senseandsensibility]

87. HaHa

Love the Jack and the Beanstalk reference.:-) However, remember in the story the beans really WERE magic!:bounce:

[sabra]

Nothing to do with Kerry?

Meaning it won't effect this election? Or has nothing to do with election 04, rather election 2k?

[tavalon]

219. Oh, come on folks

if you've been paying any attention, you know his beans are about Bev Harris.

[crispini]

24. Huh, damage to who/what? ;)

And would taking that person or entity down ultimately be of service?

[helderheid]

28. If waiting until january

would avoid major damage to our cause, yes wait.

[MelissaB]

30. Damage to whom?

The cause of election reform? Republicans? Democrats?

[electropop]

67. Better to seethe

unless the damage you refer to is damage to Rethugs. ;-)

[zann725]

88. ...Boston beans?

n/t

[adolfo]

94. A Recommendation:

Take a walk, clear your mind, then decide if you want to continue.

www.recountflorida.com

[Ladyhawk]

173. If it causes damage to the progressive cause, wait. :)

That's my position. :)

BTW, it's good to see you. I'm sorry you're so pissed, but it's totally understandable from what I've seen. I'm sure there's WAY MORE we don't even have an inkling of, but perhaps that's best for now.

[onecitizen]

193. NO! nt

nt

[sepia_steel]

5. I'd love to help ya

but I have no idea which beans you're talking about :)

[troubleinwinter]

6. Spill.

Truth sometimes hurts, but it'll have to come out.

[anamandujano]

7. breathe deeply

and decide if you might hurt the cause, whatever the cause might be.

[helderheid]

8. I agree

Remember the cause! :)

[Andy_Stephenson]

18. The cause would not be damaged

but...then again it might.

AP is calling and I don't know what to say.

[ohio_liberal]

22. Just tell the truth n/t

[troubleinwinter]

25. The truth.

[Andy_Stephenson]

31. Despite assertions to the contrary

I do tell the truth.

[ohio_liberal]

34. I know that

Everyone here has vouched for your integrity.

What I'm trying to say is that a lot of people donated $$ and time to you-know-who and they should know the truth.

[crispini]

33. If you're going to spill, spill in a very factual, non-accusatory way.

It's important that YOU not lose your cred because of your anger.

[ohio_liberal]

39. That's good advice n/t

[anamandujano]

40. If something's brewing

let it brew. Don't worry about trying to be a star in this drama (cause you already are). Decide if talking will do anything to advance the cause, if so--talk. If talking will do anything to hurt the cause--don't talk.

edit to add--maybe you should confer with someone about it--Pitt maybe or Conyers--I don't know.

[crispini]

49. Yeah, talk to Will Pitt or somebody like that. Good idea. n/t

[burn the bush]

72. Arnebeck talk to Arnebeck

[crispini]

You say "AP is calling,"

That probably means they're going to do the story, with or without you. If it's the story I think it is, they have plenty of other sources for their story, so I think it's gonna get out there with or without your input. If that helps.

[KyndCulture]

9. spill it.. The truth shall set you free. nt

[brainshrub]

10. What kind of beans?

I just talked to a freind of mine in Miami. She works for a newspaper in South Florida, and she has beans to spill as well.

Why am I the only one with no beans???!!!

ON EDIT: Made a quick change.

[crispini]

16. WTF, the (Major Newspaper Name Deleted)?

Did she give details on the beans?

So much for getting away from the computer today, sheesh!

Edit: removed name of newspaper per your edit.

[Andy_Stephenson]

23. Yeah that pot of beans sounds

far more interesting than my beans.

[brainshrub]

61. I dunno.

It was a "Merry Christmas" call. She called me from work, she's an intern reporter on the City beat. I mentioned to her that I heard on DU that Kerry was going to do something big today. (We were talking around 11:30pm)

She said: "that might explain why the editors are still here. I'll ask around." Then we talked about other stuff.

This morning she called me (10ish am EST) and said: "Well, something is definitely happening. But I wouldn't get my hopes up. It's probably going to be a letter calling for an investigation... but by the time anything actually happens it will be to late anyways." ...snip (see on edit comment) snip...

I asked her to elaborate, but she said she didn't want to "spill the beans." (Which is why this thread caught my eye.)

Sorry that I have nothing juicer.

ON EDIT: My friend saw this post and asked that I delete her opinions about Kerry. She also asked that I delete the name of the paper she interns for, so I have changed the earlier post as well.

[crispini]

83. Ah, confirmation of Will Pitt tease!

Not that we needed it. I love the internets. I love knowing the news before its news. Ahhhhhhhh.

[alexisfree]

167. I have pinto beans>>>>

I like them with corn tortillas..:9

[cyberpj]

11. Don't tip a hand too early - eom

[crispini]

13. Calm down, relax, and think about what's best

from a larger standpoint.

If you spill, don't spill because you need to but because the truth must come out in service of a larger cause. Sometimes it is necessary to make the shit hit the fan to make positive change.

[MelissaB]

14. I don't care what kind of gas they make.

At some point, I just want to know the truth.

[KaliTracy]

17. wait

[goodboy]

27. spill Andy !

[Kota]

29. Spill and run for cover.

[liam97]

37. If in any way it can help Rovian strategies

then don't!!!!

[aquart]

35. My mother would tell me

To write it all in a letter and then not send it.

We know you have a lot to tell. You also have other things on your plate that are affecting how you see things right now.

So write it all out. Get it down. Get it detailed. Work on the supporting evidence, documentation, whatever you need to avoid the he said she said. Chapter and verse. Have people you trust read it. Correct what needs to be corrected or clarified. THEN let it blow.

I once met two lovely people. I can't square anything that's happened with those impressions so I do need to hear from you. When you've got it cold.

Does that help?

I expect this is going to be a lousy Christmas for you, so I'll just hope that all the future ones are so much better.

[Andy_Stephenson]

43. Actually...aside from having no money...no job...facing the

forclosure of my mortgage...I am going to have a fine christmas.

I will be spending christmas with my friend Greatauntoftriplets. Granted I would rather be at home with termite...but I am going to be with a good friend ...someone I love and who I know loves me. Isn't that what christmas is about afterall?

[helderheid]

47. Yes

Andy, we all love you

:loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya:

:)

Whatever we can do to help, let us know!

:loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya:

[Razorback_Democrat]

50. Just PM us all what it is, then we'll tell ya whether to spill the beans!

n/t

[Ladyhawk]

176. LOL! Wouldn't that accomplish the spilling of said beans? n/t

[mopinko]

53. you're in chicago?

any plans for du-ers to get together?

[Andy_Stephenson]

59. I will be there

tomorrow night.

No plans but sundaymorning brunch would be fun.

[mopinko]

66. i have something to do sunday afternoon

starting at 2. it is not a really, really important things, tho.
lots of us here in chi.
lets do it.
i would vote for brunch at goose island. but open to suggestions.

[greatauntoftriplets]

76. Something further north, please....

I also have a 92-year-old mother to take care of (meal preparation, etc.) plus some grocery shopping will need to be done. Then it's to the airport with Andy.

Fireside up on Ravenswood?

[mopinko]

128. good one

or hopleaf on clark? bout the same N. more parking by fireside, tho not a whole lot. better beer at the leaf, but fireside is ok, too. good food.

[greatauntoftriplets]

132. Check the Lounge thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=2274401&mesg_id=2274401

[aquart]

137. Yes, it is.

Have a merry.

[Zan_of_Texas]

156. Andy, I wish I was rich, I'd send ya some $.

Meanwhile, interest rates are still low -- could you refinance your mortgage, roll in the costs, and lower your payments?

[carolinalady]

38. Can we play 20 question? Here is mine--does it have to do with

a recent qui tam suit?

[ahyums]

41. I think you have to do an analysis of the potential benefits vs the risks

of spilling, if you think that it will somehow be more beneficial to the overall cause by making whatever you know public then do so, but if not then don't etc. Telling may invigorate/depress people but if you think it's risky to tell and don't see any tangible benefit in doing so then it's probably better not to.

[Loki]

44. I think my father's words apply here.....

Gbnc - Do the right thing, and you know in your heart what that is.

[Andy_Stephenson]

51. Sadly yes I do know...

I want to spill it is not the right thing to do...but it would asuage my anger if I did. It would be for purely selfish reasons...that is not a good reason is it.

[valis]

56. If what you know can prevent others from making a big mistake

Then you should tell us what you know.

[helderheid]

57. Nope

but perhaps PMing someone you trust, such as Will Pitt, might alieviate the anger and not hurt the cause. Perhaps?

[Terre]

71. Well, there's your answer

I want to spill it is not the right thing to do...but it would asuage my anger if I did. It would be for purely selfish reasons...that is not a good reason is it.

It sounds as though you've made up your mind, and we'll just have to wait till January to hear about it. Not everyone will like that - seeing that we're all waiting with bated breath for ANYTHING that's really breaking news, but if it hurts our cause in the long run to tell now - don't do it.

[anamandujano]

75. channel the anger somewhere else

you'll be a stronger person for it.

From personal experience, everytime I hear myself say "I can't take it anymore", I have to laugh. I have been saying that so much, it's rediculous. Think how much you've been taking and how long. You can do it. One step in front of the other. That's all. Stay out of trouble.

Talking is the best way to get into trouble that was ever created.

[crispini]

79. They've probably got most of what they need already

There are plenty of other sources out there. But if somebody is not doing a good job, etc, and if you can spill in that spirit, I think most people would understand.

[VTGold]

45. Just tell us.

[femme.democratique]

46. I take it this is something NEGATIVE? (anger and contempt)

Please confirm...

[Andy_Stephenson]

65. Anger yes and no

clearing up some misconceptions and confirming other perceptions.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

162. WAIT! There is a war on-LIVES ARE AT STAKE IN THIS ELECTION!

The AP and other media outlets are all CIA-assets and they WEAPONIZE EVERY BIT OF INFO THEY CAN TO KILL PEOPLE BY SUPPORTING THIS REGIME AND DISCREDITING WHISTLE-BLOWERS!!

Don't play into their hands with your own desire to tell truths.
They will use anything and everything to MAINTAIN ELECTION FRAUD SO THEY CAN KILL AND KILL AND CONQUER THE WORLD!

They know how to 'Orwellify' anything into what they want it to be in the public's confused propagandized mind.

I know what it is like to be bursting at the seams with the need to regain your 'honor' etc. but know that you already have it with those who are capable of having a clue.

Your family here at DU supports you always, Andy. The press want to weaponize your story to use against the innocent in the war for oil.

Please please please don't pour fuel on THEIR fires lit under humanity.

peace to you and yours, brother.

[Pacifist Patriot]

48. Send me a private message with the information and I'll be

happy to give you advice on whether you should announce it publicly or not. ;)

[valis]

52. GBC: Do what's right for you.

[Chimpanzee]

54. I wonder about the story behind spilling beans

and how that became known as 'telling a secret'. Anybody know the history of bean spillage?

[in_cog_ni_to]

55. If it hurts the repukes...SPILL!

If it hurts our cause...DON'T! It all depends on that. :hi:

[Razorback_Democrat]

58. Is it about BBV and the board? n/t

[SueZhope]

60. everyone tune into this show thread here

John Conyers & other quests on this radio show

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x189521

[seemunkee]

62. Do what is right for the cause

It may be hard to contain but you need to do what is necessary to get the results you want. Don't spill if it is not the right time.

I'm not going to get any work done to today.
Refresh, check Du, Refresh, check DU, Etc.

[ohio_liberal]

69. The Cause, The Cause, The Cause

And what if everyone is putting all their eggs in the wrong basket?

[lavendermist]

63. I am just glad..

to see you posting again, beans or not.:hi:

[greatauntoftriplets]

64. Spill.

:)

[Andy_Stephenson]

70. I plan on telling you in person

anyway.

See my post above about no money etc.

[greatauntoftriplets]

81. I figured and I saw...

No further comment for now....

[sabra]

68. JUST ONE QUESTION?

Is it positive to our cause? That's all I care about... :-)

[lonestarnot]

77. DON'T SPILL!!!!

[GetTheRightVote]

85. Well you have been given plenty of good advice in thread but ...

this is a country based on freedom of press & speech, many a problem has been resolved thru the sharing of it, talk to your trusted friends or associates and move on from that point based on their advise but the final decision must be your own therefore your responsiblity as well.

[goodboy]

73. Spill, and I'll make a donation to DU right now.

who's with me?

[ClassWarrior]

74. What is it with DU "celebrities" playing these stupid...

..."I know something you don't know" games?? With all due respect Andy, either tell us or keep it to yourself. It's not fair to taunt people like this. If, as you said above, the right thing would be to keep it to yourself - then for God's sake keep it to yourself, and don't get everybody wound up for nothing!!

Thank you.

NGU.

[Andy_Stephenson]

80. Well first off

I am not a celebrity. Second I was asking for the opinion of my peer group. Perhaps you don't understand that.

[ClassWarrior]

86. Andy, you ARE a celebrity around here. Perhaps YOU don't...

...understand that. And do you really expect a rational opinion from a question like, "Should I tell you this really juicy secret??" For what it's worth, my friend.

NGU.

[Andy_Stephenson]

91. Well I don't consider myself a celeb...

what I have to talk about is not a "juicy secret" but more like clarification. I don't want to do it for selfish reasons. If I do it now...it will be for that reason.

Throw me a bone here. I am hurting...sad...away from the love of my life at christmas. Feeling a bit out of sorts and downright depressed.

If I make a statement now...it could be very damaging. That is why I am asking.

[suziedemocrat]

96. Go Ahead - spill!

It will come out anyway - and if it will be damaging - it will probably be less damaging with the holidays and snow storn, etc. taking up everyone's time. Spill - spill.


BTW - I've suffered from depression for years - but I have found two vitamin/mineral formulas which REALLY help. The dosage is 3 tabs a day - I only take one a day of the Rainbow Light - Nail, Hair & Skin connection (has lots of B12 and Choline and Insolitol - and lots of other stuff good for the brain) and I also take Rainbow Light's Advanced Mineral Plus (minerals greatly affect mood!) Emotions are just chemical reactions in the brain IMO and a GOOD vitamin formula can work wonders! I've been taking these just 2 months - and almost immediately my depression lifted!

[ClassWarrior]

97. Understood. But hear how it sounds to us, the uninformed.

You said yourself, elsewhere in this thread, that you know what's the right thing to do. I support you in doing the right thing - and if that means bottling up the anger, then understand that there are lots of folks who are only too glad to help you get through it.

Need a shoulder? You can count on me, Andy. I'm sorry to hear you're hurting, sad, and lonely. That's rough any time, but especially at this time of year. I wish you were near enough that I could invite you to spend the holiday with us.

And I know you don't consider yourself a celeb, but many people here who don't know you as well as others do look up to you as a former candidate and prominent BBV activist. I'm sure you realize that. I know that "folks is folks," but there are others who don't. Just be aware of that, okay?

And please, please feel free to PM me if you'd like to talk more. :hug:

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

228. I'm so glad my words of sympathy had an impact.

NGU.

[electropop]

99. What would the love of your life want you to do?

She would tell you to take the high road, and feel good now _and_ later.

[Andy_Stephenson]

118. Actually it is a he...

He is major pissed off. He is is firmly in the tell column...but it is personal to him as well.

[hlthe2b]

133. Andy... I've been reading...

quite a bit lately on dealing with difficult situations, people, pain, loss--from the Buddhist literature and particularly those from the Dalai Lama with western writers (who bring our own perspective to the table).

Now, I don't say this to send you to the bookstore/library or nearest Buddhist retreat. Only that the common sense that comes from it seems to apply, whether you are agnostic, Christian, atheist, Jewish, or whatever. I've had quite a bit of similar circumstance in my own life in the past 18 months to deal with and I too am struggling.

The essence to me as it applies to your issue, is that every action has repercussions and can intentionally or unintentionally result in hurt or pain for others. But, intent is important. If the "scales" weigh (in your own "pure" mind) towards larger benefit for more people, for the long term, and for the larger issues, than the pain you may cause the few--it may be justified. It is their karma, after all and you can't prevent that from happenng. But, if what you are pondering is truly a reaction from your pain, anger, hurt, and without larger benefit, then your "challenge" is to set the truth forth without that element or retribution to others-- or perhaps to let it be.

[BlackVelvet04]

187. My advice is

think about having spilled the beans. Try to imagine the consequences to you and everyone else. How do you feel about those consequences? If not very good then discuss it only with someone you trust to not repeat it, if you feel good about it then let it rip. I think deep down inside you probably have your answer.

I know that I'm still very new here and nobody knows me, but I still want to encourage you. My life was going really badly about 8 years ago. I'd had lots of surgery, I had a sham of a marriage and I was depressed, had anxiety attacks and was agoraphobic. I bit the bullet and made some big changes in my life not even knowing where I would live and having virtually no money. Within months of getting a divorce I not only wasn't agoraphobic anymore but I drove across country BY MYSELF. I have re-married and I have a great new job, a wonderful husband and a new house. I'm no longer depressed, no longer anxious and I'M ACTUALLY HAPPY. Remember that no matter how bad things seem right now THIS TOO SHALL PASS.

Merry Christmas to you and expect a better more prosperous New Year. There are a lot of people pulling for you.

[saracat]

200. Spill it. If your SO is telling you to do it, do it.

Just the fact that it will assuage your anger is not to say it is wrong. The truth shall set you free. It will also set the rest of us free. It accomplishes nothing for us to perpetuate lies. We have to move forward. Just choose your words carefully to avoid any perceived damage and go for it. If they are calling you ,it is better that you control the story then them. Trust me, you don't want them doing the story without you. Good Luck!

[bufftiger]

93. I agree. whats the point of "asking" this forum? n/t

[hlthe2b]

138. Sometimes it really is as simple as needing others to reinforce

what you already know... Advice can come from many sources and I don't think a generic "ethical" dilemma is off limits to discuss on a forum....:shrug:

[hlthe2b]

141. We are all desperate for that "inside" knowledge, but I don't think

most of the posters are intentionally throwing things out to "tease" us. It seems that way, sometimes, I know... but I'd like to know if something is in the works, even without the details--to watch for it.

But, I understand the frustration, ClassWarrior.

[Straight Shooter]

78. NO, NO, NO.

You said it in one of your posts, something about it will not accomplish anything, it was for your own satisfaction.

I want to share with you a quote I came across, perhaps this will help.

"That which begins in anger, ends in shame."

Talk to trusted friends, in confidence, and share your burden. Do not add another burden in this time when you are tired, frustrated, and prone to make mistakes.

Peace be with you in this season, Andy.

[Kota]

84. Yes when your with your family and friends at Christmas, talk

it through.You have a lot of support here too.

[dave123williams]

82. The truth will out; better to say it now than later.

[Oversea Visitor]

89. Hmmm which can

2000 election
2004 election
911 www.pentagonstike.co.uk
Depleted Uranium www.gulfwarvets.com

You guys want more site I got loads being doing research on all this

[Oversea Visitor]

90. Eratta

www.pentagonstrike.co.uk

[WritersBlock]

92. You can always tell later, but once it's told, you can never untell it.

I agree with those who advise caution, especially if you're tempted to do something out of anger and contempt.

[KansDem]

95. "The Musical Fruit"

Beans, beans, the musical fruit,
The more you eat, the more you toot,
The more you toot, the better you'll feel,
So, c'mon! Spill 'em before the noontime meal!

You'll feel better! :D

edited for poetic license...

[KoKo]

98. "Revenge is a dish best served cold...." but if the "truth" will set us

free" and not just you....maybe it needs to be told if it will help folks and not harm them to know whatever is making you so angry. :shrug:

IOW if it's personal might be best to wait...but if the harm has been done to many and needs to be told right now to stop something illegal or immoral from being done...then you need to do it.

[righteous1]

100. Jeeeez, cliche' overload

[valis]

101. Oh my!!! Just got a PM with the spill.... That is incredible!!!

:D

[ohio_liberal]

102. Do you have an OK to share?

[valis]

105. I cannot share yet, sorry.... I promised...

[ohio_liberal]

106. Well, shit

Tease!!! ;)

[valis]

108. it has to do with what you all are already suspecting.

just worse. That is ALL I can say now...

[ohio_liberal]

112. ....

I suspect so many things. :shrug:

[Ladyhawk]

179. Hell yes. After this election mess and BBV mess, I don't trust NE1. n/t

[troubleinwinter]

116. Unless the beans get spilled, there will just be TONS of speculation

[valis]

119. I agree... Not sure what to do about it, though...

[troubleinwinter]

122. Wild speculation is probably a worse thing than the truth out.

[valis]

123. Sorry...

[Maddy McCall]

127. Question.

Will I be vindicated? I've been labelled as the most critical of Bev. Will I be vindicated?

[valis]

134. Let's say that your chance of being vindicated would go up....

[JohnOneillsMemory]

189. Double play! TAG TEAM PSY-OPS. Very clever innuendo!

Consider that no matter the specifics of Bev Harris and her work that it is absolutely CRUCIAL TO THE NEO-CON MEN TO DISCREDIT HER AS THE MOST PROMINENT ANTI-BBV IN THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA.

'Kill the messenger' is also used against DU-ers, too. So many newbies signed up with DU recently and need to be educated to this tactic so they know 'trolls' when they see them in threads and in the mainstream media.

THIS INTERPERSONAL VAGUE INNUENDO IS CLASSIC DISINFORMATION TACTICS.

And so psy-ops disrupters will come into our DU pool to stink it up and turn away the confused and ill-informed who are vulnerable to that manipulation.

This is exactly how the White House plays the public.

Now I'm not saying you're definitely doing this but it sure looks like it. EXACTLY LIKE IT.

[valis]

197. Are you envious or something?

[JohnOneillsMemory]

218. Yes you do. You just did it. "Oh my!..." n/t

[sabra]

107. So why post ?

Can you answer if the nature is positive or negative?

[valis]

111. I can understand with GBC is conflicted....

[valis]

113. I mean, it could be construed the wrong way...

[sabra]

114. Can you answer my question?

Positive or negative for the cause...

[valis]

115. what's the cause though?... I'd say not good for the cause...

More mud going around...

[sabra]

121. That's what I thought :-(

[sabra]

103. That's not funny...

[New Earth]

104. that's not fair!!!!

i want the beans too!! :(

[Goldeneye]

109. I know how you feel.

The wait is killing me.

[Boredtodeath]

110. Who are you taunting?

Frankly, I understand you are angry, but I see this as nothing more than a taunt at Bev Harris.

I am no fan of the woman, but this kind of thing only fans the flames of the cross forum sniping going on.

Andy, if you need to tell the truth, just do it.

Knowing Bev as we all do will just result in new and nastier accusations at you over at her site and continue this ugliness in a more personal manner directed at you.

You know that's true, because you know Bev.

Don't subject yourself to more.

[Pacifist Patriot]

117. Dammit! I've got some beans to spill too.

But I've already cleaned my kitchen once today and I was considering making burritos for dinner tonight.

:evilgrin:

[Darkhawk32]

120. Damn, that sounds good... mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Burrrrrittoooos. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[carolinalady]

124. well you would not answer my question so I have one for the

group--People who followed bbv in the last year--Do you know if any of the BBV money was used in the qui tam suit?

[Maddy McCall]

125. I would bet my savings that it was.

[ohio_liberal]

126. For what?

Attorney fees?

[Maddy McCall]

129. Travel fees, hotel stays, transportation while in Cali, paper-filing fees.

All of the fees that go along with filing a lawsuit out of one's home state.

[ohio_liberal]

130. Ah, I see

This would be interesting to know.

[valis]

135. Not just that...

[ohio_liberal]

140. Oh?

So they were using it for other things as well?

[carolinalady]

131. yesterday I was reading David Allen's thread with links to

Yahoo--Jim March blatently swore that no funds were used therefore the money was his and Bev's personally--I tried search BBV but was unsuccessful(no surprise) to see if there was any supporting evidence. Apparently on the DBD message board they are claiming that if those BBV funds were used--the money belongs to the 501(c)(3). Given the timing of Andy's "beans" and his anger my theory is that it was and they are now claiming differently.

[Maddy McCall]

136. Utter bullshit, because she promised that she wouldn't accept the...

judgment and would force Diebold to go into discovery. Now, she and March are saying since no BBV funds were used, they own the settlement.

So full of bull and bluster. Either way, she lied.

[carolinalady]

139. link--follow yahoo message replies to get full story

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=182976&mesg_id=182976

[Maddy McCall]

145. No...what I am saying is that I fully believe that they will keep the...

settlement. I don't think she ever intended to force Diebold into discovery.

By accepting the settlement instead of forcing Diebold into discovery, Diebold pays a small amount of money out, and will now never be forced to reveal its corruption. Thanks Bev, you lying manipulator.

[Kelvin Mace]

153. Again, I can't say if stupidity was involved

or treachery, but what happened in California was yet another reason not to file a qui tam in the first place. (something Bev understood when she was falsely accusing other people of doing so, but quickly forgot when she filed).

If you file a qui tam and the government joins the case, THEY call the shots, not you. If they settle, you settle. So, Bev's claim that she would not settle was either disingenious or naive. She had no choice.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Kelvin Mace]

150. Supposedly not

I can't say definitively, but the suit was filed prior to the formation of the 501c and solicitation for donations. Supposedly Finley was taking the suit on contingency, so would get 25% of the money going to Bev and Jim, or $18,750 from each, leaving them $31,250 each. But there was also some provido in the settlement for attorney's fees, so I can't be sure.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[troubleinwinter]

152. I had read that Bev & Jim got $75k each,

so 25% each to the attny would leave $56,250 to each. ???

[Kelvin Mace]

154. Sorry, never use a calculator while talking to someone

on the phone and answering email and posting.

It get's confusing. You are correct.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[carolinalady]

155. sure but as pointed out above there's more than just attorney

fees and they could have been ongoing after the nonprofit was formed.

[troubleinwinter]

157. Are you saying that there is a possibility that

within the terms of the settlement, may have been a provision that Diebold pay the attny fees, leaving the full $75k each for Bev & Jim?

[Kelvin Mace]

214. It's possible

Since the settlement mentions attorneys fees.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[On the Road]

142. Just Like in Business

If the press calls and asks about a confidential plan, consider whether your largest competitor knows about it. If not, keep it secret until you're ready. If so, use the call as the opportunity to make a public announcement.

Also, avoid making forecasts or predictions on the grounds that we do anything publicly that we can't do well, and that nobody can forecasts consistently well. (Both pieces of advice from my Bible, Up The Organization.)

I think it's a good idea to present only facts which can be substantiated as well as opinions from any public person (for example, someone filing a lawsuit), labeled as such.

Making sweeping statements turns the press away. Giving limited, verifiable information is tantalizing and makes them want more.

You may already be doing this, but you asked for advice. Good luck.

[hijinx87]

143. Spilleth NOT.

It's the Thursday before Christmas; most of the country is either traveling or is otherwise occupied by the holidays.

The point is that no one will be listening, and any potential impact on the national consciousness will be lost.

[Maddy McCall]

147. Bullshit. People here will be listening.

And that's what matters.

[Maddy McCall]

144. Just remember what she said about you in a very demeaning, public way

The decision is ultimately yours.

However, there are many people who can ill afford to make contributions to Bev who are still doing so. They deserve to know to what they are contributing.

[libertypirate]

146. Is BBV a setup?

Are those the beans... Is that why she is so happy to file suit!

[JohnOneillsMemory]

166. PSY-OPS TACTIC: KILL THE MESSENGER TO DISCREDIT THE MESSAGE

The AP and other media outlets are all CIA-assets and they WEAPONIZE EVERY BIT OF INFO THEY CAN TO KILL PEOPLE AND SUPPORTING THIS REGIME BY DISCREDITING WHISTLE-BLOWERS!!

They know how to 'Orwellify' anything into what they want it to be in the public's confused propagandized mind.

Don't play into their hands with your own desire to tell sordid information to feel vindicated.
They will use anything and everything to MAINTAIN ELECTION FRAUD SO THEY CAN KILL ANYONE TO DOMINATE THE WORLD.

The COMPLICIT PRESS want to weaponize any anti-BBV/Bev Harris story to PROP UP THIS MURDEROUS REGIME LOOTING OUR GOVERNMENT FROM WITHIN.

Often, the truth doesn't set us free. It gets weaponized against us. How and when the truth is revealed determines whether it helps or hinders and whether people die needlessly as a result.

[libertypirate]

170. Shut UP!

It doesn't work if you have to post it more then once...

P.S. Tell Karl he is an asshole!

[JohnOneillsMemory]

174. Amusing. Yeah, that's why I've been waving Operation Vigilant Warrior

on 9/11 all over DU and highlighting the DuPont Coup of 1934 along with Prescott Bush's role in building Hitler's war machine and fingering media propaganda from Operation Mockingbird on through today.

Um, that sure makes * look like RedWhiteAndBlue Jesus, doesn't it?

Thanks for raising your hand. Duly noted...

[libertypirate]

184. Cover?

Do you always have to stick up for yourself?

[JohnOneillsMemory]

186. Fight back? Yes, informed liberals CAN fight back. Surprised? n/t

[libertypirate]

215. Let me just ask you this...

By keeping them quiet you hope to protect them? yes or no

Now how is that going to work...

If we don't know who, and we don't know what; and hypothetically they end up past tense... How the fuck does that benefit our cause?

The only thing time gives the bad guys is time to find who they don't know and what they know.

[troubleinwinter]

149. Yes, the truth is important... to know what they are contributing to.

[Maddy McCall]

148. Oh, and in the words of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

We will remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends -- Dr Martin Luther King, Jr


:-)

[Chimpanzee]

151. Spill the beans already!!! You're starting to piss me off!!

[valis]

159. Well, by now, probably hundreds of people have been PMed

either by BGC himself or by people who had PMed by him... I only hope BGC himself is the one who's gonna spill in public cuz I'm afraid this is gonna come out either way very soon...

[Cyclical]

158. Compromise?

How abut if you don't actually SPILL them, per se, but only drop, say, a couple of beans on the floor. Or at least tell us, in a general sense, what sort of beans these are.

I'm much more likely to become excited over, say, refried beans, than I am over lima beans, or anything made by Goya.

What sort of beans??

[Truman01]

160. Everyone this is pretty silly, don't you think?

Spill don't spill, we can wait. Bev's varacity has never been in much doubt to those willing to look at her honestly and not mix her with the cause.

TC

[valis]

161. You mean, it's always been clear she was a phony?

[troubleinwinter]

163. Yep, I think it is quite clear that she has no veracity

[valis]

164. Funny that just a cuple of months ago we'd be banned for saying so...

Things change...

[troubleinwinter]

169. She's done it to herself.

If one has arguments/disagreements/fights with dozens of people close to 'you', is it the dozens, or is it 'you' that is the problem?

It is just simply obvious that she herself is the problem. No straight answers ever come from her. It has become completely rediculous, and it's time for a strict accounting of money and actions. I don't know if it will ever be seen.

Having read posts by Jim, he seems pretty 'unique' to me, too.

[FloridaCrat]

165. Why do yourself harm by keeping it in? Let it loose !!!! n/t.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

168. NO! PEOPLE WILL KEEP DYING. THIS IS A PSY-OPS MEDIA REACH OUT.

The AP and other media outlets are all CIA-assets and they WEAPONIZE EVERY BIT OF INFO THEY CAN TO KILL PEOPLE AND SUPPORT THIS REGIME BY DISCREDITING WHISTLE-BLOWERS!!

They know how to 'Orwellify' anything into what they want it to be in the public's confused propagandized mind.

Don't play into their hands with your own desire to tell sordid information to feel vindicated.
They will use anything and everything to MAINTAIN ELECTION FRAUD SO THEY CAN KILL ANYONE TO DOMINATE THE WORLD.

The COMPLICIT PRESS want to weaponize any anti-BBV/Bev Harris story to PROP UP THIS MURDEROUS REGIME LOOTING OUR GOVERNMENT FROM WITHIN.

Often, the truth doesn't set us free. It gets weaponized against us. How and when the truth is revealed determines whether it helps or hinders and whether people die needlessly as a result.

DU-ers who urge Andy to spill strike me as rubber-neckers at the car-wreck of our democracy who revel in the bloodbath as spectacle for amusement OR possibly....

[libertypirate]

175. FEAR FEAR FEAR

[JohnOneillsMemory]

185. Pretty feeble attempt at Orwellification. Your insincerity is showing.

Fear of...what? Fear of revealing how the election was stolen AGAIN?
Fear of revealing who the OIL/WEAPONS merchants are in the White House?
Fear of revealing that the media has been a CIA tool for decades before FAUX NEWS?
Fear of revealing that the US military just wiped out 100,000+ innocent people to occupy a large oil spigot?
Fear of revealing that John Negraponte in Baghdad was instrumental in forming Reagan's death squads in Central America in the 1980s?
Fear of revealing that the Bill of Rights has been replaced with the torture manual issued at the School of the Americas in Georgia?

I can't even say 'nice try' to your efforts to discredit.
I hope you've already signed up to occupy Falluja. They need you.

[Capn Sunshine]

224. Just so you know

everything you mentioned is pretty mainstream info. Nothing there to be revealed.

It's just that no one cares any more, they're so numbed.

[FloridaCrat]

178. I hadn't considered that, JohnOneillsMemory, You're right. I retract my

advice.

Thank you for giving me a wake-up on this. Brain must be turning to mush from lack of intelligent life or conversation everywhere except for on DU and immediate family.

Thanks again.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

182. I'm balancing the principle of truth-telling with the pragmatism of saving

lives in my own actions, too.

I've been very critical of all who are complicit with fascism either knowingly or not and I'm adjusting my own instincts to throw everything on the table as I learn how clever the fascist propaganda is. Psychology is important and most are ignorant and/or naive about how it is used in the media 24/7.

Now I want to not just satisfy MY OWN urge to reveal, but ACTUALLY BE EFFECTIVE IN SAVING LIVES.

Being cautious is counter-intuitive to screaming bloody murder but learning not to hand out weapons to be used against us MUST BE LEARNED QUICKLY.

This has been hard for me to learn and I'm only just beginning to try.

[IndyPriest]

206. JohnOne.. You are a wise man. n/t

[Chimpanzee]

222. Whuh choo tawken bout willis?

[libertypirate]

171. I am pretty sure the whole thing has to do with....

double jeapordy.

[Ladyhawk]

172. If it's something that may cause problems among progressives, wait. :)

BTW, it's good to see you. I hope you're OK.

:hug:

[JohnOneillsMemory]

177. Thanks, LadyH. There are some sharks here yelling 'jump' to GBC.

It reveals either short-sightedness or something less innocent depending...

I've now been accused of being a Rovian for saying what you said so succinctly. Interesting, ay? A learning experience to say the least.

[Zensea]

180. Can we trust you?

Do you seethe with anger and contempt anyway?
Who should I believe?
When is the real truth going to be revealed?

[Garbo 2004]

181. As you already know, dealing with the press can be tricky.

What you say and what they report may not be the same. Or the context they give your comments may give an impression or spin other than you intended.

You can decline to get into a topic at this time or say all you will say at present is X. And not get into other matters until you are really ready and in a venue with which you are comfortable, in which you believe your words will not be twisted or spun by the reporter.

I myself prefer the truth to get out, whatever it is. But sometimes one must choose the manner, time and place for it to come out, rather than just react although it it's tempting to let loose.

Since you are speaking with trusted friends that should get some of the pressure off you to tell someone. And if you may have any potential legal action pending you may wish to take that into account. Once something gets out it's out and you won't be able to control the consequences. But the manner in which you choose to "go public" can perhaps make a difference and help "frame" the discussion somewhat. As someone previously advised, you can talk to Will Pitt. He can perhaps advise you as a friendly listener and a journalist.

But if you are going to PM the denizens of DU one by one add me to the list since you got my curiosity going. :7

Seriously, consider what's best for the issue and you, both short and long term.

[ChicanoPwr]

183. So has the beans been spilled yet?

[corbett]

188. Let Kerry's Presidency Be Your Guide

Toying with your options is all well and good but your ultimate determining factor has to be buttressing Kerry's looming inauguration.

[troubleinwinter]

190. What makes you think one has anything at all to do with the other?

[corbett]

227. If He Has A Salient Point But It's Not About Election Fraud Or Kerry

then this is the wrong forum – that's all.

[valis]

198. What the?....

[WilliamPitt]

191. Clear your name, Andy

If you need help, just ask.

[valis]

195. Andy's name is already clear though...

Will, are you saying that Andy's name is on the line here?... Why?... Bev is the problematic one...

[greatauntoftriplets]

196. Thanks, Will.

I know how highly he respects your opinion.

[Ellipsis]

199. Barbecued beans.

[valis]

201. Dunno, implying that Andy's name is somehow "dirty" is not nice...

[Ellipsis]

205. I couldn't tell you. I have not red his threads.

I posted on the wrong line... sorry,

k

[Ellipsis]

207. I agree with straight shooter Sorry, about the barbecued bean thing.

I understand who you are now, sorry for the smart ass quip!

This is True:

Emotions become heightened and distorted because of "Holiday Dysfunction." If this is not time sensitive, bite your tongue until after the holiday your angst might subside. A sounding board is good, looking for conformation on a decision made is reaching out.

"Deep breathly", Catch the sunset, meditate. Keep company.

Take the time, to take the time.

The world will still be here.

Peace to you.

[buddysmellgood]

194. Where can I get some of those beans? What kind of beans are we talking

about? These sound like personal beans. Personal beans can be served exactly as you please since you keep and make them for yourself. But if they are not your beans, if they are beans you share, then you MUST consider those you share them with. That's easy if the beans will only be shared with a few, but if the beans are shared by many and you are the keeper of the beans, then you have a much greater responsibility. If the beans have gone bad, you are morally obligated to spill them for all to see, no matter how painful that may be.

[Wonk]

202. Have you been taking "how to post a tease thread" lessons from Bev?

200 posts about nothing, or maybe something but maybe we'll never know. Sure is reminiscent of her style, not the Andy that I'm used to.

Let me know if you ever get around to actually posting something about "it", ok? Thanks.

[valis]

204. Not "nothing", let me reassure you... He's very conflicted.

And be nice to Andy. He's had a hard time...

[greatauntoftriplets]

210. Trust me, Wonk, this is something he has to think about carefully.

It'll piss off many people. Right now, Andy is up against a wall.

I am in the spill the beans faction, although I don't yet know what beans will be spilled. He is spending Christmas with my family and has promised to tell me in person.

[RevCheesehead]

203. Generally, when in doubt, SAY NOTHING!

1. If you are being attacked, defend yourself, but make NO accusations yourself.

2. If you have clear evidence of an illegal act, tell ONLY those who need to know.

3. AVOID THE MEDIA! Once you talk to them, YOU become the story.

Andy, we all know that you took more shit than any one person should ever have to in one lifetime. And many of us really DO understand and feel your anger, because we've gone through similar situations.

When I went through hell, I HAD to keep quiet (my entire career was on the line). I spoke ONLY with those I trusted to keep a secret. What got me through the character assassination was the belief that ULTIMATELY, THE TRUTH WILL BE KNOWN, AND ALL WILL BE EXPOSED.

It rarely happens all at once. Be the better person that we know you are, and do what you know is right.

Rev. Cheese

[NC Beach Girl]

208. Just another opinion...

You have a right to tell what you know and experience and don't let anyone convince you that it is a bad thing. Your anger and contempt will probably not subside much by spilling the beans, you'll have to chalk this up to a learning experience and let time take care of those feelings. However, spilling it would probably help other people avoid the same thing happening to them, no?

A cold, hard presentation of facts would let everyone know what happened and let them judge for themselves what to think about it and nobody could really accuse you of slinging dirt.

The cause will not be helped by secrets or protecting those who don't deserve protection...better to out that bad stuff now than let some repub jerk spew it on the news and paint all people who want voting reform with the same brush. Better for us to devote our loyalty, time and money to those who are truly fighting for us instead of those who seek to profit from our hopes and convictions.

And thanks, Andy...your devotion to voting issues is truly an inspiration. Merry Christmas! :)

[Eloriel]

221. Best post in the thread, bar none

I agree with every word.

I see lots of calls for Andy to STFU so as not to "harm the cause." That can too easily be simply a codependent way of dealing with things -- aka "keeping family secrets" (like the elephant in the living room), a tactic which helps NO ONE and disempowers everyone.

While I don't particularly relish seeing what may too easily seem like gossip, Andy should do what he needs to do, as long as it's truthful and factual (which I don't doubt it would be) without a lot of regard to what it does or doesn't do to others. Bev Harris is no longer "the face" of the voting machines issue, thankfully, and her continued marginalization at her own hand is proof positive of that IMO. Andy can't help or hurt that at this point, IMO.

(And yes, I realize he's already begun the bean-spilling.)

[NC Beach Girl]

225. Thanks!

I don't get the "shut up to save the cause" people at all and I really wonder how many more good activists would have to be strewn in BBV's wake before it would be OK with the STFUers to talk about it.

[valis]

223. Well said NCBG! You rock!

[NC Beach Girl]

226. Thanks!

:)

[salin]

209. which ever you do... just don't wear a beanie while doing it!

:D

Follow your instincts on this. Know that you have a huge number of folks behind you - whichever way you decide to play this. And also know that lots of us are really, really curious at this point ... (but we can wait, if we have to).

Glad you are going to hook up with friends while stuck here in the midwest winter storm holidays. Stay safe, Andy and many thanks for your ongoing work.

[Niche]

212. Bev Beans? What a waste of my time. I'm sick of Bev and all...

the nonsense about her on the board. I believed the cause - still do. I have no oppinion either way. Hope you have better thoughts and lighter moments with all this. Take care.

[salin]

213. lol... didn't know that beanie cap jokes

would strike such a nerve... :shrug:

[shiina]

211. take your time

This is a confusing thread.

But.

Take some time.
Tell a few people here that you trust.
See what they say.

I, personally, have had enough excitement today and can wait a few more days for you to decide.

Good luck.

[AmerDem]

216. This whole thread doesn't amount to a "hill of beans"

What a useless waste of space. I sit back shaking my head watching this nonsense accumulate endless posts but other very relevant posts like Raw Story's most recent fall like a rock. Sometimes you have to say :wtf:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=191485&mesg_id=191485&page=

[Must_B_Free]

217. two words: high road

if it deserves to be told of someone, tell. If it is merely damaging for spite, hold. If we need to know because it affestc us, tell.

You have been pretty high road so far, so there is no reason to stray.

[slutticus]

220. Hi Andy.

We're all here for you, whatever you decide!

:hi:

[drh]

229. Spill the beans

Go ahead, Andy. We've got your back!

[Kelvin Mace]

230. He already did, three threads worth.