FreePress: Another third rate burglary - at Ohio Dem Offices

[dzika]

Another third rate burglary

by Richard Hayes Phillips, Ph.D.
December 25, 2004

On December 9, 2004, I posted an article on Lucas County. I noted with deep suspicion the voter turnout data for the City of Toledo. Of the 495 precincts in Lucas County, the 88 precincts with the lowest turnout, all in the City of Toledo, were won by John Kerry. Of the 8 precincts with less than 50% reported turnout, 4 are located in 2 wards. Of the 29 precincts with less than 55% reported turnout, 20 are located in 4 wards. Of the 63 precincts with less than 60% reported turnout, 34 are located in 4 wards, 39 are located in 5 wards, and 43 are located in 6 wards.

When the precinct numbers are combined into totals for each ward, a clear and unmistakable pattern emerges. The 14 wards with the highest reported turnout were won by John Kerry by a margin of 11 to 7 in the aggregate. The 10 wards with the lowest reported turnout were won by John Kerry by a margin of 6 to 1 in the aggregate. The more competitive the ward, the higher the reported turnout. Conversely, the less competitive the ward, the lower the reported turnout.

It was, and still is, my professional opinion that the election in Lucas County was rigged. I speculated that someone may have gained access to the central counting devices for the optical scanners without anybody at the precinct level knowing about it. The vote totals for candidates could be altered in this manner. But at each precinct there is supposed to be a count of total ballots cast, and it was difficult to imagine how access to a computer could have altered or affected the reported voter turnout without serious risk of exposure.

Shortly after I posted my article I received a phone call from Toledo. My source, who had been an observer at polling stations on Election Day, told me of insecure and chaotic conditions there. I was also referred to a newspaper article in the Toledo Blade, posted online at:
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2004410130378


The article, written by Robin Erb, published October 13, 2004, is entitled: “Thieves hit Democratic Party offices; computers containing sensitive data removed.” I take the liberty of abbreviating it here:

continued...
http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/1037

EDIT: subject

[LiberalHeart]

1. The break-in was not political, police say....

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041021/NEWS03/410210423&SearchID=73194084533299

I live in Toledo and heard broadcast reports after this story ran ... bottom line, it was just another garden-variety break-in, nothing more.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. How convenient...

They said the same thing about Watergate.

After all, how would they know that the break-in was not political? Are there specific indicators that one should look for in a political break-in? Perhaps campaign buttons, from the other candidate, left carelessly behind?

[EFerrari]

52. LOL! That's right. Exactly what they said. Listen to what they deny.

[dzika]

3. Did you read the FP article? You know what they say about hindsight...

"...The burglary gave the thieves exclusive possession of two months’ worth of Democratic voter canvass records. It allowed them to target specific wards and precincts for voter suppression operations, and left the Democrats unable to prevent it. The reader will forgive me for not having imagined such a technique for adversely affecting voter turnout.

Since learning of the burglary I have examined the Election Day incident reports for Lucas County posted online at
https://voteprotect.org/epc/index.php?display.

Many of these reports are precinct-specific, and I have obtained from the Board of Elections a list allowing me to correlate the polling places mentioned with the precincts they served. Altogether, 31 of the 88 Kerry precincts with lower turnout than any Bush precinct (62.72%) are identified in the incident reports..."

He concludes:

"I have no way of knowing if the burglary at the Democratic headquarters was directly connected to voter suppression activities. But I cannot imagine another motive. "

[henslee]

4. Sorry, but dems who got burgled, have to be jackasses to not protect

sensitive data. We all knew months ago it would come down to Ohio.
On edit -- hope someone gets caught and the dots are connected.

[dzika]

6. Sensitive data should be protected....

...but that doesn't change the point that Richard Hayes Phillips is trying to make.

EDIT: spelling.

[LiberalHeart]

5. Police know who did it. It's not Watergate.

The headquarters is located in a high crime area. It was not a sneaky or sophisticated burglary. A window was broken. The building sits close to the sidewalk; the broken window was in an easily seen part of the building. The items taken were things that could be moved easily on the street for a quick buck. Very common in that area.

There were many reports about the burglary on local TV. At first it looked like a juicy who-dun-it, but that theory fell apart fairly fast when the facts became known. Within a few days the police announced that they knew who did it and it was not political. You can blow this into something it wasn't, but it's really a misdirection of your energy. If anybody would have loved to have turned this into a political drama, it would have been all the Democrats who were all over the news when the reports were being aired. Soon even they were reassuring the public that it was an ordinary crime like so many others in that area.

One of the spokespersons from the Dem Headquarters appearing in the reassuring reports was a fellow mentioned in that article cited above: Jerry Chabler. Mr. Chabler is an ex-cop and knows a thing or two about solving crimes. He was satisfied with the local cops' investigation.

Another thing about Mr. Chabler is his well-known tendency to raise a ruckus when he smells a rat. He used to be on the board at the Port Authority and routinely (and rather dramatically) brought issues to the forefront in the local media when he thought there was wrong-doing at the Port. Had there been anything hinky about the break-in, Mr. Cabler would have been all over the media, making noise about it.

One thing that could have attracted thieves to that particular building: They had recently purchased new equipment and the discarded boxes were on the property.

[stirringstill]

9. Perhaps. Perhaps. Perhaps.

If they KNOW who did it and have arrested them and have verified the motivation of the criminals and know the chain of custody of the stolen computers it would be possible to say that this was not political and just "an ordinary crime." I have had my car broken into once in my life and on that one day I had an empty gateway computer box sitting in my back seat so I know first hand that thieves are attracted to computer boxes. Perhaps Chabler and other local Dems are satisfied with the investigation. Perhaps.

[McCamy Taylor]

13. Pardon my skepticism, but this IS Watergate until proven otherwise..

...and Ohio police (who have threatened recount people with bodily harm) saying "We are positive this was not politically motivated" does not constitute proof in my book.

[Dancing_Dave]

28. So give us the names of the burglers

And the court date and location of their trials. Who has been publicly cross-examined about this so far?

Distractions don't work here.

[stirringstill]

7. Of course it was

Well, I don't live in Toledo but the article you referenced provides no insight into whether the break-in was garden-variety. Perhaps evidence exists to suggest that the break-in was not politically motivated but the Sgt. who makes the claim offers no evidence to the reporter in support of this claim. We are all entitled to our own opinions, but in the absence of additional evidence, the bottom line you sum up in your post is "nothing more" than a GUESS. These particular computers stolen may not have contained any sensitive information on them, but if they did, one must assume all information on these computers has been compromised until PROVEN otherwise.

[LiberalHeart]

8. I'm not guessing....I'm telling you what was reported.

I saw MANY reports on local TV when this happened and in the days that followed. The article I provided was the only one I found, and it is not as thorough as later TV reports are. I would have loved it if I could have blamed the Republicans for this .... but the facts are the facts.

The big thing that was stored on the computer was info on contributors to the Democratic party.

If you want to get upset about something, concentrate instead on the recently announced resignation of the Lucas County BOE director (Toledo is in Lucas County) -- her last name is Noe, and she and her husband are heavy hitters in the Republican party. The local rumors are that she and her hubby will be getting jobs with the Bush administration. Maybe it's some kind of thank you.

[dzika]

10. The article you provided is....

nearly as old as the article referenced in the Free Press article.

"Shortly after I posted my article I received a phone call from Toledo. My source, who had been an observer at polling stations on Election Day, told me of insecure and chaotic conditions there. I was also referred to a newspaper article in the Toledo Blade, posted online at: "
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%202004410130378

Clearly, Dr. Phillips has an additional newer source besides this old link. He indicates that his information from this source came after the election.

If you know of a newer source regarding this break-in then please post it.

EDIT: They are not they same articles. My mistake... sorry.

[LiberalHeart]

11. I don't know if an arrest was ever made, but....

...it looks to me like the police are confident of their information:

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041021/NEWS03/410210423

Edit: trying to make my link work. If it doesn't, here's the story:

Police: Democratic office break-in not political

By CHRISTINA HALL
BLADE STAFF WRITER

Authorities have a suspect but no charges have been filed

Toledo police said yesterday they don't believe the break-in and theft of three computers from Lucas County Democratic headquarters last week were politically motivated.

"We are pretty certain it was not an 'inside job,' nor was it any outside agency trying to take the computers," said Sgt. Bob Baumgartner, a burglary detective.

He said investigators believe greed - taking the computers so they could be sold - was probably the motivation for the theft. Police have a suspect in the break-in, he said, but he declined to provide any further information and emphasized that no charges have been filed.

The case remains under investigation, and police are still trying to locate and recover the stolen computers, which contained sensitive information needed by local Democrats for federal, state, and national campaigns.

The computers were taken from party headquarters at 1817 Madison Ave. in the city's Uptown neighborhood between 11 p.m. Oct. 11 and 7 a.m. Oct. 12.

County Democrats are offering $1,000 each for the immediate return of the three computers - no questions asked. Police and party officials said getting the computers back as soon as possible remains their top concern. The computers are worth about $5,000.

The Democrats originally offered a $5,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of those responsible for the break-in.

Despite the revised "no ask, no tell" reward offer, Democratic party spokesman Jerry Chabler said he hasn't received any word about the computers' whereabouts.

He was hoping the reward may motivate whomever took the computers to simply return them.

Sergeant Baumgartner said information obtained by police has "pretty well eliminated" any rumors or speculation of possible political motivation for the theft.

He said police are pursuing the information they have received, which the sergeant said has been determined to be reliable. Investigators have received reports of similar break-ins in the downtown area with similar entry and items stolen.

Mr. Chabler confirmed he has heard the rumors and speculation that the thefts could have been politically motivated or even an "inside job."

He said he hopes the latest report from investigators quells any such rumors and "brings the case to a speedy conclusion."

He said the party was able to recover most of the financial records and other data from backup sources and from people who have been coming forward with information - including those who were in leadership positions before Mr. Chabler and his faction of the party took control last spring.

E-mail information on the computers has not been retrieved, Mr. Chabler said.

Contact Christina Hall at
[e-mail]
or 419-724-6007.

[dzika]

12. So, we have....

2 articles from the Toledo Blade written in October.

Article published Wednesday, October 13, 2004
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041021/NEWS03/410210423&SearchID=73194084533299

Article published Thursday, October 21, 2004
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2004410130378

Dr. Phillips was referred to the older article but there still unresolved questions in the later article:

"He said investigators believe greed - taking the computers so
they could be sold - was probably the motivation for the theft."

"The case remains under investigation, and police are still
trying to locate and recover the stolen computers, which contained
sensitive information needed by local Democrats for federal, state,
and national campaigns."

"Despite the revised "no ask, no tell" reward offer, Democratic
party spokesman Jerry Chabler said he hasn't received any word
about the computers' whereabouts."

"Mr. Chabler confirmed he has heard the rumors and speculation
that the thefts could have been politically motivated or even
an "inside job."


We can't confirm (with the knowledge we have here) that the "sensitive data" on the computers did not end up in the hands of someone that used it to influence the election.

I don't have access to the information that Dr. Phillips has but I'm keeping all options open as he claims to have access to newer information.

I don't put anything past the R* operatives.

[LiberalHeart]

14. But look what else Chabler said...

After Chabler said he had heard the rumors, there's this:

He said he hopes the latest report from investigators quells any such rumors and "brings the case to a speedy conclusion."

As I said earlier, Chabler is one who'll make noise when there's a reason to. Also, I know Sgt. Baumgartner who worked this case. He's the straightest of straight arrows.

I don't put anything past the R* operatives either, except, well, this particular burglary. I recall reading about burglaries, vandalism, and even shootings (through windows) at other political headquarters during the campaign season. Both sides were the victims in these incidents.

For the Republicans to have messed with the vote in Lucas County, I don't think it would have taken a burglary to do so. In fact, I would think tinkering would take place at the BOE, not at an individual party's headquarters. I have a friend who worked the Lucas County recount and she reported to me in the early days of that project that the numbers were working out pretty well. It's not over yet -- there's still something that has to be done on Tuesday before we'll know the final outcome of the machine count that followed the 3% hand count. But the last I heard from her, she said if the election was messed with, she thinks it was at some other level in the process, such as software alterations. She has no basis to make charges in that regard; it's just what looks more likely to her than the counting end of things.

I think our county had something like a 50% or higher rejection rate on provisional ballots, which I thought was pretty high. I also had trouble making the turn-out reports match what I had seen at polling places. Official turn-out was high, but I expected it to be even higher given the long lines at various polling places I checked throughout the day. Now that I've learned about the shortage of voting machines, I'm wondering if that's enough to explain why there were such long lines rather than a huge up-tick in turn-out. I've been voting in Lucas County for decades and *never* saw lines before except for one year when we had a highly controversial school levy on the ballot -- and even then, the lines were much shorter than on Nov. 2, 2004.

We did have problems with machines not working on election day. Also, in one case, the machines were locked in an office at a school that was a polling place. Voters who came early either couldn't vote or they had to wait for school to open so the machines could be moved into the polling room. I heard of another place that ran out of pencils, which caused a delay. All the incidents I heard about on the news took place in precincts that were heavily African-American.

[roseBudd]

31. Regarding Chabler, anyone could be on the take, the proverbial dirty cop

Bribery or extortion.

We cannot claim to know for sure that anyone, dem or republican is not in on it.

[chalky]

15. And what about this paragraph in the Oct. 13 article?

"Two other computers, holding less sensitive information, were untouched, as were a petty cash box that usually holds $80 to $100, televisions, portable radios, and other electronics. Moreover, other offices inside the building, 1817 Madison Ave., were not entered. Files, papers, and pamphlets remained in neat piles, and campaign signs leaned, apparently undisturbed, against a wall."

I don't hang out with many thieves, but surely they would have taken all the PCs and the cash?

[dzika]

16. A fine point. n/t

[LiberalHeart]

17. Police said they had *a* suspect....

How much stuff do you think one person can haul out of a building? Remember, this building is on a downtown street -- a building that is very close to the sidewalk. I think hit and run burglaries are very commonplace. He took what he thought he could sell. I doubt he'd stick around to pick through all that was there.

Just a few nights ago somebody broke into a neighbor's car. I heard the window break. I turned on my porch light and looked out in time to see the door open very briefly, then go closed. All the guy took was the storage box/arm rest between the front seats. He ignored everything else in the van. Several weeks ago someone broke into my car and took nothing -- apparently because a quick glance made him think there was nothing of value there. I had a few empty boxes in the back and I think he figured that was all that was there. He missed several antiques I had purchased and not yet taken into the house.

[dzika]

18. Thanks for your comments! n/t

[chalky]

20. And the computers taken just HAPPEN to be the ones with the sensitive data

Damn, but I'm getting tired of coincidences.

[LiberalHeart]

22. Don't you think all the computers there....

.....would contain sensitive information? I don't know what they'd need computers for unless it would be campaign and party related information.

Really, I think if you knew the area you would not see anything coincidental about that particular building being broken into. Very near to that building a restaurant-converted-into-a-church for the homeless was burglarized and a bunch of blankets that had been collected for the homeless were stolen. The cop quoted in the paper said there'd been similar burglaries in the area. There's a nearby hospital. A friend of mine was walking from the hospital to her car in the daytime and had her purse swiped out of her hand by a guy running by. The whole area is known for street muggings, break-ins, and prostitution. It has been like that for years. Decades ago I lived about four blocks from the Dem headquarters on that same street and it was bad back then, too. There are frequent police patrols, which makes me think the burglar would have spent very little time doing his thing.

Suppose someone did take the computers to get donor info and strategy information -- what then? Do any of us think that if the election was rigged, it was rigged with info fitting that description? Again, I point to the illogic of saying there's a connection between a *party* headquarters break-in and funny numbers on election day. If the break in had taken place at the Board of Elections, I'd be abandoning my version of reality in favor of yours. There it would make some sense in terms of this juxtapositon of theft and odd voting results. But that's not what happened.

[dzika]

24. liberalheart, you have made your position clear.

over and over and over again.

Thanks for your comments!

zzz...

[LiberalHeart]

25. So sorry dzika.

I'll bow out now and perhaps you'll perk up again.

Thanks for the warm welcome to DU on this, my first day.

[Bouvet_Island]

30. Heh,

I got the "warm welcome" too.

I take it a hit and run by a regular suspect is a good and relevant explanation.

It doesn´t rule out this fella being paid twice though, someone lifting the information from the PCs while in his posession without his knowledge, or similar deep conspiracy.

There are practical and economical problems when organising different types of fraud and suppression. The machines could either have information that would be either expensive, unpractical or difficult to aquire without raising suspicion by the republicans. It could also be that the lawyer where onto something good, that he was the target.

Risk vs value, stuff like high benefit positions in Washington is generally "priceless".

I doubt though that there are anything to gain by the vote protection movement by pursuing this story, without any new evidence.

[newyawker99]

38. Hi Bouvet_Island!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Bouvet_Island]

47. Ah, thanks

I toast back with our very own Norwegian christmas homebrew! cheers!

[Fly by night]

33. You're welcome to stick around, if you can fix the broken record

"Me thinks, he protests too much" is pretty good (though circumstantial) evidence here on DU that a poster is not what she/he seems. So are very few posts from an otherwise insistent and repetitive poster or, conversely, 800+ posts (of gibberish) in one week which one bouncing dingbat has bored us with over the past week. Of course, I could be wrong, but I don't theenk so.

Stick around, you may learn enough to change your stripes. You'll meet many other former Republicans here who are as disgusted by the theft of this election as many real radicals and liberals and progressives and moderates and "middle of the roaders" and conservatives and libertarians are. It's still ALL our country, and we're going to fight together to keep it. Naysayers, dissemblers and distractors are the least of our problems at this moment.

[LiberalHeart]

44. Fly by night: about my "broken record"...

My first post was also the first response to the orginal post that started this thread. I provided more timely info on the break in than was in the original post.

Second post: I provided information on the Dem party spokesperson and some sense of the crime scene based on my first-hand observations.

Third post: I was accused by someone of having guessed that the crime was not political. I responded by correcting that charge because it was based on my having seen many reports in local media telling the public it was not political. I am a local news junkie. I watch channel 13 at noon, then at five, six, and eleven I tape channel 13 and shuttle back and forth between channels 11 and 24. This was big news at the time. There were also many reports on WSPD radio locally, the station I tune to for news during the day -- but not the right wing programming between news casts. In that post I also provided into on what those reports cited as the most valuable info on the computers.

Fourth post: I provided a news article that contained quotes from Chabler and police regarding the crime and the suspect. Unfortunately, I also broke a copyright rule because I posted the whole article -- something I will not repeat on DU. I posted it because I couldn't get my link to work at first, as my edit note indicated.

Fifth post: Someone re-posted a remark from Chabler that was taken out of context from the above cited article, which altered the point Chabler was making. I re-posted the rest of his remarks to correct the record. I also emphasized Chabler's history as someone who wouldn't sit still for a cover-up. And I called into question the break-in's ability to influence voter turn out numbers (which was a suggestion in the original p;ost that launched this thread), and I suggested other more likely ways the election might have been influenced.

Sixth post: I responded to someone who said much of value was left behind at the crime scene by pointing out that the police had a single suspect, not multiple suspects, thus it didn't surprise me that not everything was taken. I provided examples of grab and run thefts I had experienced first-hand as victim and witness.

Seventh post: I repsonded to someone who thought it odd that only computers with sensitive information on them were taken -- I pointed out that any computer in the Dem headquarters would be likely to have sensitive information on it. It's the nature of the beast. Thus, I hardly think that makes it a targeted theft, other than targeting electronics in general. I asked for theories on how the type of info on the stolen computers could have influenced the funny numbers (i.e. the voter suppression mentioned in the original post that started this thread).

Eight: In self-defense, I responded to what was for me a hurtful post by dzike.

Nine: I provided follow-up information on the personnel changes at the BOE that someone else had posted.

And now this post: I am apologizing for having bored people or appeared to have been a broken record, but I believe I stayed on topic and merely responded to what others had posted. In your post you made a comment about other Republicans. I am not a Republican, former or otherwise. I am decidedly left of mainstream Democrats. I came of age in the '60s and the liberalism of that time has never left my blood. I believe that conspiracy theories re the break-in are exactly that: conspiracy theories, and not a productive avenue for those of us who are interested in examining election 2004 to explore. If that sounds to you like I'm protesting too much, well, then so be it. But the fact is I'm every bit as eager as everyone else here to see the GOP pay for any transgressions it might have been guilty of in this election. I think it's important to stay focused on the real issues and not get sidetracked by things that appear to have the makings of a grand scandal if, in fact, the makings aren't really there. If I made that point more than once, it's because I was challenged more than once in various ways regarding the details of this story. The link in the post that started this thread seemed to provide something juicy to pursue. I just wanted to bring folks up to date based on being in the community where the break-in happened and having followed the coverage.

I've been lurking at DU for several weeks and thought you folks looked like a friendly, like-minded crowd. I had no idea that you would be as suspicious of me as you are of the break-in. It boggles the mind of this commie pinko broad who cares so deeply about the deplorable damage the GOP has done to this country. I had thought, and hoped, I was among friends here.

[jayctravis]

26. modus operandi?

I don't suppose that if someone wanted that computer, it would defy logic to suggest hiring someone to break in who if found out would suggest a hit-and-run robbery? Surely it wouldn't be a squad of Republicans wearing sunglasses and yelling "go go go!" into headsets, right?

[chalky]

27. Although I'm sure the area is hell on earth

and that there's constant mayhem in the street, who am I to argue with an actual quote from the article that states, "Two other computers, holding less sensitive information, were untouched."?

And again, I'm not one to hang around with robbers, but from all accounts they're usually looking for the easily totable items such as "portable radios, and other electronics", and not putting an effort into disconnecting a PC and juggling the various components out the window. Of course, the PC could have been a laptop, but that would free up all kinds of carrying possibilities, so why were the other valuables left behind?

Then there is the fact that a "petty cash box that usually holds $80 to $100" was also left untouched, which is another fact that at the very least should deserve a raised eyebrow. And too, I hear that break-ins are usually messy affairs, and it's rare to find (again, I refer to that pesky quote) "Files, papers, and pamphlets remained in neat piles, and campaign signs leaned, apparently undisturbed, against a wall."

Also, the assertion that there was a link to the "funny numbers" and the burglary was not mine. There are plenty of reasons to break into a Democratic headquarters (see, "political scandal", Watergate.)

[sickinohio]

35. I wouldn't say constant mayham on the streets. I work in the

Healthcare building a couple blocks away. I am not afraid to walk outside for my afternoon breaks. Also, many of the emplyees walk the two or three blocks around the facility during luch for exercise.

[Moderator]

37. LiberalHeart

Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
paragraphs from the
copyrighted news source.


Thank you.

DU Moderator

[Carolab]

21. Article about multiple personnel changes in Lucas, including Noe

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041204/NEWS09/412040418

[LiberalHeart]

23. The personnel thing was all about one vote.

People were suspended from both parties, and the problem came down to just one vote that was miscounted. I can't remember how many ended up leaving because of it, but I know it was at least one, and maybe two of the four. The reason it involved so many was because some were supposed to be supervising the others during the count and apparently didn't notice the mistake.

Hudson-Hicks really had been intending to leave for some time, and that was known at the BOE.

The Lucas County BOE has a long history of bad management, which is all the more reason why I would think that someone wanting to mess with the election would have started and ended there.

Here's a link to a story about Noe's resignation:

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041223/NEWS09/412230417&SearchID=73194112444786

[Blue Diadem]

49. Rumor about Noe's resignation

was all over local TV news the other day. She reacted rather strangely and basically avoided answering the reporters questions. I get the impression the rumor is true, because one of the reporters mentioned he'd known her hubby for years. He(the reporter) seemed very excited with trying to get her to talk about it.

It's in the other article about her:

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041222/NEWS09/41222014


snip:Ms. Noe acknowledged there had been rumors about a role in the Bush administration for her and her husband, Tom Noe, who was chairman of the President’s reelection campaign effort in northwest Ohio, but she said she would not comment on that.

[sickinohio]

32. I live in Oak Harbor Ohio and work only a couple of blocks from

the headquarters. I son't reacall seeing "MANY" reports fro "days" about the break-in. Besides, I don't believe anything the MSM does or doesn't report on - they lie or tell only half-truths.

[The Doctor.]

36. So.... Where'd the computers go?

Who had them?

Were they simply pawned off and their hard drives wiped clean?

If you can't answer these questions, you can't know this wasn't tied to supression... just like we can only 'suspect' that it is.

[Vinca]

29. Odd they left the money

if it was a garden variety burglary. And if they chose the computer with the information and left another computer, that's pretty incriminating. Wonder if the Toledo police bothered running the fingerprints through the FBI database.

[bunny planet]

42. Oh then that must be true. LOL

[corbett]

50. Many Of Those Cops Voted For The Shrub!

Just look at the way they conducted themselves around recount volunteers!

[Niche]

19. But why a burglary there? Also, the same kind of # appear

in Nevada too. 100% reps vote turnout vs. 70% dems - across the board? It's weird the numbers don't add up...

[Amaryllis]

34. Have you sent this to Conyers?

[genieroze]

39. Sound like Watergate. eom

[Pithy Cherub]

40. Curioser and Curioser

there is a white rabbit around here somewhere!

This is all eerily similar to Watergate, plumbers re-election funds, records at Dem HQ's, must now go reread All the President's Men...

[Nederland]

41. Could be meaningless

Did you look back at the historical record and see if this election's turnout and voting patterns were different? You need to find out.

[Beyond]

43. A reward for a job well done perhaps.....

..for gathering information on registered Democratic voters?


<snippet from toledoblade.com>

Lucas County Republican Chairman Bernadette Noe this morning announced her resignation as head of the local party and Chairman of the Lucas County board of elections.


'Ms. Noe acknowledged there had been rumors about a role in the Bush administration for her and her husband, Tom Noe, who was chairman of the President’s reelection campaign effort in northwest Ohio, but she said she would not comment on that.'


http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041222/NEWS09/41222014

[alternative2]

45. Maybe they went the same place these computers went . . .

I'm sure I'll get flamed, perhaps even booted, but some of this conspiracy stuff has really started to get to me. Ok, so you want to believe this was a political theft, fine. But then you have to accept that this was as well:

3 computers stolen from Bush's Bellevue (Washington State) campaign office

By David Postman and Ashley Bach, Seattle Times staff reporters
Saturday, October 02, 2004, 12:00 A.M. Pacific

BELLEVUE — Three computers loaded with confidential campaign plans were reported stolen early yesterday in a burglary at President Bush's Washington state campaign headquarters.

Someone threw a rock through a window of the campaign's office in a suburban business park, taking laptops belonging to key campaign workers from the desk of the Bush campaign's state director, Bellevue police and Republican Party officials said.

The Bush campaign and local Republican officials say they're convinced the break-in was politically motivated. They say it appeared to be a targeted burglary and was suspiciously similar to a break-in four years ago at Bush's Bellevue offices.

"Whoever did this was clearly looking for a body of information," said local Bush campaign spokeswoman Leah Yoon.

Police said their investigation was still in the early stages. But so far, said department spokeswoman Jessamyn Poling, "there's no indication that it was politically motivated."

State Republican Party Chairman Chris Vance called it a "Watergate-style break in," and said he suspects Democrats are behind it.

Read the rest at:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002052153_breakin02m.html

[GetTheRightVote]

46. They stole computers, etc, but not money or other valuables

I believe this makes it appear to be political not greed related.

:grr:

[dzika]

48. "...31 of the 88 Kerry precincts with lower turnout..."

In this article, Dr. Phillips writes:

Since learning of the burglary I have examined the Election Day incident reports for Lucas County posted online at https://voteprotect.org/epc/index.php?display.

Many of these reports are precinct-specific, and I have obtained from the Board of Elections a list allowing me to correlate the polling places mentioned with the precincts they served. Altogether, 31 of the 88 Kerry precincts with lower turnout than any Bush precinct (62.72%) are identified in the incident reports.

Can anyone explain the importance of this correlation?

I'm just trying to understand if it is significant enough to suspect fraud or does it only be come significant when paired with the other mounting evidence in Ohio.

[dzika]

51. I'm still looking for an answer...

...to the question in the above post. Thanks!

[witchhazl]

54. Well you're a very patient and persistent poster.

(Nice alliteration,huh?)

I don't know that I have a useful reply, but -- is he saying that when he reviewed all the incident reports in the voteprotect.org database that 1) 31 out of 88 "bad Kerry" precincts were cited as having "incidents", and 2)more importantly, that *all* the precinct-specific reports were only from the suspicious "bad Kerry" precincts?

If (2) is true, that would seem suspicious.

[EFerrari]

53. The problem here is the articulation, the sentence. Where

does he get 62% from 31 of 88?

[dzika]

55. yeah, it seems like some information is missing.

So, we can't really confirm Dr. Phillips numbers with the information that we have.

I don't really want to just drop it because eventually we are going to pull on the right thread. Maybe this is nothing but I don't know that yet.

I'll be happy to contact Dr Phillip but I don't even know what to ask him and I don't want to waste his time.

Any idea? I'm not scared, I'll call him and muddle my way through it if that's what it takes.

Thank you for responding!

[EFerrari]

56. I would contact him and ask for clarification. He's probably

still working on it and would be clarifying for himself as well. fwiw