If Bush is installed anyway, should we still have to pay federal taxes?

[buddysmellgood]

Is it possible to file a class action suit against the federal government on the grounds that it failed to provide a free and fair election? It failed to provide equal protection. It failed to provide an audit of the election. Because of the coruption in Ohio and other states, we cannot know the true outcome of the election. As a result, we are under no obligation to pay federal taxes until we know who is in charge.
Help me out. I'm no lawyer.

[slor]

1. I am not an attorney either...

but HOT DAMN I like it !

[bitchkitty]

2. I'm not a lawyer either -

but it seems to me that if it's an illegitimate government.....

[iamjoy]

3. Civil Disobedience

Refuse to pay taxes, go to jail -
and may the spirit of Henry David Thoreau be with you

[buddysmellgood]

9. Well first, before jail, everyone should file for as many extensions as

they can. Drag it out just as long as you can while we repeatedly ask who is in charge of the federal government. They say Bush. We say prove it. We have huge doubts. Answer our questions. They can't proove it. They can't afford to count all the votes. If you count the votes, Kerry wins.

[Freddie Stubbs]

29. That would cause a financial burden for many Americans

Many people get a refund when they file their tax returns. No tax return, no refund. Uncle Sam already has your money.

[buddysmellgood]

33. Yes it would.

[OKthatsIT]

4. Bush WANTS to end Federal taxes..

Causing the country to econommically collapse is precisely the Dominionists Plan.

http://www.theocracywatch.org/audio-video.htm
Check out the video called

"The Rise of the Religious Right" from TheocracyWatch.org

[Carolab]

5. I keep telling people

taxes are voluntary in the first place and they are interest on loans made by the Federal Reserve, which constitutionally should not be issuing currency (Congress should). Therefore, they are illegally demanded to begin with. Yes, we should revolt by refusing to pay taxes.

[BansheeDem]

45. Federal taxes are not voluntary ...

Please do not tell people that they do not have to pay taxes. You are doing them a great dis-service when you pass on inaccurate information that could very well land them in serious trouble with the government. The Congress has the power to levy and the Treasury department the obligation and right to collect personal income taxes. If anyone willfully refuses to pay, they could be subjected to criminal prosecution. Just that simple.

[zann725]

6. ...not a lawyer either. But "No Taxation Without Representation" ...

worked for our forefathers. And a Class Action might be a good placed to start. Plus I suggested on another thread that if the Admin. wants to "privatize" SS, then perhaps we should suggest "privatizing" our taxes, and decide ourselves "how we want our tax dollars invested" (like in a 'Cafeteria Plan')...as each of us has varying priorities, I think in the long-run all necessary societal needs would be more adequately met this way. Certainly would be a lot less spent on UNnecessary wars...and certainly more on infrastructure, social programs, science and research, the arts, affordable healthcare, etc.

[buddysmellgood]

10. Oooh, I like that. Haliburton wouldn't get a dime. We could really

privatize the military. We'd have a national guard supported by the government. It's job would be to protect the nation. You know, the one we live in. The private half could be the adventure force. Freepers could send their kids to work for the Adventure Force and they would go to strange lands and kill and be killed for oil.

[Turn CO Blue]

13. Amen.

I want to know this...Are they really going to be willing and able to give up that portion of my salary that is allegedly earmarked for Social Security? Won't they miss it, since they keep using SS money for other parts of their budget?

I want to have some say, as with your suggested cafeteria plan, where the money gets spent. The few elected Dems aren't able or willing to defend my interests.

[Clark2008]

22. So, instead of a Boston Tea Party

We could have a National Shrub Party and toss all the Bushies in the harbor?

:D

[Turn CO Blue]

7. No taxation without representation.

Since the government is illegitimate, and we have no representation or a very weak opposing party to express our opposition to the policies and agenda - then why should we continue to financially support an agenda opposite to our own interests?

I understand the need to pay to fix the potholes at the local level, but why the hell should I continue to pay for this evil empire to run roughshod over us and the rest of the world?

I don't want a red cent of mine going toward *'s salary or for drilling in Alaska.

[sportndandy]

8. Taxes are disputable in court However

You must file a complete and accurate return whether or not you pay the taxes indicated or not. You might be able to argue away the taxes or hold them for four years, but if you fail to file or file a false return than Uncle Sam will nail your ass.

[buddysmellgood]

12. Now we're getting somewhere. Everybody needs to do this. Push the

paper at them until we get answers.

[MissBrooks]

11. Don't pay them and see what happens...

Then, tell us what how it goes.

[lenidog]

14. I don't think its going to be pretty

Because in the end it doesn't matter who is president the IRS still expects you to pay your taxes and you can come up with a billion and one reasons not to and file all the lawsuits you want either you pay or they send you to jail and or take everything you own.

[Zan_of_Texas]

15. Well

If they can't count our votes properly, there's no reason to expect them to count our tax money properly. Right?

Plus, I seem to remember an old saying,

No Taxation without Representation!

A massive tax revolt would be one way to get their attention. However, the IRS and the feds would not exactly welcome this form of free speech protest -- I'm no lawyer, and I'm just guessing here but.....

Since withholding is automatic for most working people, it would not be easy to implement either.

Plus, I don't think most Americans would think we are at that point in our political disgust.

[genieroze]

16. What do you do, tell your boss not to take out federal taxes? eom

[BlueStateBlue]

39. I'm pretty sure

you can legally tell them to withhold as if you have say, 30 dependents, in order to see as much net pay as possible. The onus is on you to file honestly and pay what you owe come April 15. Also, many self employed people don't withhold, just pay quarterly.

[Yupster]

17. There used to be a movement among fringe

Republicans who refused to pay their taxes and argued the income tax was voluntary and unconstitutional (weird since it's an amendment in the Constitution) and I remember reading a few years ago that the leader finally was sent to jail.

Now I guess the fringe Democrats will take up the felled standard.

[Carolab]

19. As I understood it, it is unconstitutional because

Congress is supposed to issue currency and levy taxes on that currency. Congress does not issue currency and the taxes we paid are in reality interest on loans issued by privately held banks comprising the Fed.

Here's an informative article:

http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/fr2.htm

[Yupster]

18. You can certainly file a class action law suit

I've been involved in stupider ones for sure.

[illflem]

20. A first step happens in January

Get an IRS form W-4 and fill out "exempt" at the bottom and turn it into your employer.
This way the government doesn't get to borrow your money interest free for a year. Unless you owe a considerable amount of taxes for 2005 there will be no penalty and your paycheck will be bigger. Beware, you might have to come up with the money in 2006 to pay your taxes, save some.

[earth mom]

21. I had a friend go exempt

about 20 years ago. She and her husband joined some group-forgot the name-and didn't pay taxes for 2 years. They ended up having to pay the taxes plus interest in the end because the IRS made their lives a living hell. I wouldn't try it myself. But the class action lawsuit sounds promising.

[steelyboo]

23. "taxation without representation" only worked for our forefathers because

they were waving muskets around when they were saying it, and the Brits didn't have a standing army over here big enough to intimidate, lets get real. There was a post in the first few days of this election stuff unfolding here, where someone soberly asked if we, those of us espousing revolution, were willing to see it through. Lets quit beating around the "Bush" (all puns intended) and say it; "if we prove fraud and nothing is done, are we willing to take up arms to restore our government, including violent overthrow if there is no other choice?" Sadly, there used to be a time when you could discuss it, but with the present administration, I would pause before doing so in a public forum.

{oh, and if you Freeper Internet Nazi's wanna turn me in for sedition/treason/ whatever other trumped-up charge you can think of, its spelled s-t-e-e-l-y-b-o-o, and the "o" is for "O, go fuck yourself, you self-righteous prick, if you can have(i.e. "Michigan Militia" and all those other, self-admitted RIGHT WING whackjobs from the mid-90's) a militia, I can talk about starting one all the fuck I want."}

[genieroze]

24. Yeah, we'll fight with flowers and peace signs like they did in the 60's

.....NOT.

[steelyboo]

25. exactly, Im more a child of the Yippies, with 'Y', poilitics as theater

Lets toss cash at the stockbrokers and levitate the Pentagon, save the flowers for their graves :) IF, and I mean only IF, we PROVE, beyond a shadow of any doubt, not just reasonable, that this was stolen... and they still give us this "oh well, nothing we can do now" shit, THEN, oh baby, THEN, we can start talking REVOLUTION!!!!!

[genieroze]

27. I'm the youngest and my older brothers and sisters were hippies

one even went to the original Woodstock. I say the first thing we need to do is hit these suckers in their pocketbooks. I'm already boycotting WalMert, K-Mert, Dell go to hell, MSM etc... This is what we need to do right now. Do you listen to Ruppert? He says if they want to rig the votes show them how you voted by voting with your wallet. Put a hurting to them. Let's see how much these jerks want to support * when they are going broke. Come on guys, keep on outsourcing, kill the middle class and watch what will happen to your ass. You want to outsource work to India for ten cents a hour then let them buy your garbage, they can't afford it either, and neither can we. I hear luxury stores are doing great, well goodie for them. Rich people don't shop at Sears, who supports the republicans at the expense of the democrats and the working class. I used to like Sears until I found out who they support, won't step foot in their stores unless it's to take a short cut to another store. I think you are right if we find out there was fraud and the republicans say tough, I think we could have rioting.

[Zan_of_Texas]

34. We have found out there is fraud.

Proving it is harder. But there was fraud.

[genieroze]

37. It's the proving it that will be hard

especially as more and more time goes by, it gives these scumbags time to cover their tracks.

[Triana]

26. Taxation Without Representation...

...is NOT a Democracy. Truely, we were long away from any form of a Democracy well before Drinky Dumbass was appointed. Now, we're even further away and now, with NO chance of redemption (yes. being defeatist and cynical here. or, am i being realistic? you decide.)

Democracy in the US is Dead. We're peasants. We're taxed to support a small number of rich Mercantile Class, arrogant mavens. The rest of us can go to Hell. We're nothing but fodder to them - backs to glomb off of.

Period.

[Poppyseedman]

28. The IRS would love for you

to not pay your taxes.
After they hound you for a couple of years, they throw a lien on your income, property, home. Make your life a living hell.

After you pay a butt load $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ of dollars in penalties plus the taxes you owed, twice as much as you would have paid in the first place, they will leave you alone with a very nice letter in the mail telling you "Thank You" you can have your life back.

HINT: The IRS doesn't care who is President: elected, selected or stolen.

I say GO FOR IT. YOU ARE THE MAN I'm right behind you................following

[bitchkitty]

30. But what if hundreds of thousands, maybe millions

of people didn't refuse, but instead followed the advice of the above poster - file and contest your heart out?

[BoomerSoonerOKU]

31. They'd use

the money they made by confiscating and selling all of those people's property to build new housing for everyone who refused. They're called prisons.

[Carolab]

36. If enough of us objected

they wouldn't have enough prisons and resources to handle it all. Furthermore, to whom would they sell our properties?

[tintin99]

43. back taxes

It would be real easy to find buyers for properties if all they have to pay is back taxes.

[seriousstan]

32. Are these the same 100,00's that didn't come out for any of the protests?

I meant post-election but couldn't fit it in the header.

Don't get me started, when a city the size of Columbus Ohio can only get 400-600 people to come to a rally then where is the "taking the streets" talk taking us? ( Before people bitch and moan...I feel the same about your 1000 estimated ralliers, but since I saw it with my own eyes.....). Then the weak demo on the 12th, 60 tops. If you are waiting for the apathy of the masses to somehow melt into a torrent of popular uprising, I have some reclaimable swampland for you.

I have stopped waiting for the outrage to boil over. Hell, even people posting here don't get out from behind their computers to march. I know the excuses...it was cold....WELL it IS Dec!

So be one of the "100,000's" and find out how quickly that number is deflated to you and a few other "100's" stuck with the IRS on your ass until you fork over everything they wanted to begin with along with a stiff penalty for your trouble.

[Zan_of_Texas]

35. Too bad we're not all offshore corporations.

Those guys get the trifecta -- they get government contracts (paid for with OUR tax money), they incorporate offshore to avoid paying government taxes, and they donate a fraction of the money they make to elect more people to Congress and the White House to make more policies that benefit them and make us pay even MORE taxes. Oh yeah, and they expect us to send OUR kids to get injured or killed to support THEIR wars to defend their businesses and their profits.

[BlueStateBlue]

38. Let's get John Edwards to take the case

He's got a great record with class action suits!

[Razorback_Democrat]

40. Only if you've never paid taxes!

Apparently if one has never paid federal income taxes they are able to argue that they don't have to, but if you've paid them, well, then you're screwed and would only be in trouble if you didn't pay them.

and whoever is inaugerated on 1/20 (unfortunately it will be Bush)
is "in charge" until proven otherwise

[Silverhair]

41. Inventive - But very doubtful. Nice try. NT

[fearnobush]

42. Pay no taxes based on Equal protection. Middle classes not equal.

The middle income earners pay the most in Federal tax. Middle incomes are not subject to those wonderful tax loop hools the rich get to enjoy. Corporations don't pay tax either, why should we?

[tintin99]

44. Would ALL laws be null and void then?

Why just tax laws? Why not all the other laws? I don't like the direction this takes if you follow it through.