Fraud in Lucas County OH

[Stevepol]

Bev Harris is focusing on fraud in Lucas County OH where the numbers are ridiculous as to the turnout in the counties that favored Bush vs those that favored Kerry. In the townships w/i the county that favored Kerry by a good margin, turnout was around 50%. In counties where Bush had greater support, the turnout was 80% or higher. You can check it out at <www.blackboxvoting.org> at Harris's site, which has a new look, just having been updated evidently.

[Brundle_Fly]

1. Well I hope she has something tangible.

We've all been "banking" on Bev, and as of now....she has produced nothing.

[Stevepol]

3. The problem with proving fraud with the machines is that

you can't have anything "tangible" other than wildly impossible statistics, unless you can actually count the votes and compare the results with the published totals. This is impossible with touchscreens and next to impossible even with scanners where the paper is there but the willingness of the people handling the elections to allow recounts and audits is not there. The recalcitrance of the officials in Lucas Cty with regard to allowing the release of materials asked for under the FOIA and the many resignations and shake-ups in the elections officials are just two more indirect pieces of evidence, the only kind of evidence possible under the circumstances.

[burn the bush]

2. hmmmm, I don't see this as a plus for Ohio anymore

what happened in Florida? After all that hoot'n & holler'n? Is she done with Florida now? Surely not? Is there a bigger chance of recognition now in Ohio?

[Doctor O]

4. Bev probaly needs a new way to collect more money from

people for her own gain.
She claimed to be the white knight and then showed us noting.

[Eloriel]

5. Did she give up on FL? Abandon it? Was her work "done" there?

Or what?

[New Earth]

13. maybe she's trying to get a 'piece of the pie' in Ohio

:eyes:

[IndyOp]

6. The study with the most impact that is posted here is actually by

Richard Hayes Phillips and is posted on FreePress.org
<http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/979>

I'm glad they posted it -- I hadn't seen it.

Also a nice OpEd in ToledoBlade

<http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041226/OPINION02/412260348/-1/OPINION>

Unfortunately, Americans tend to lose interest in recount issues as soon as an election is called, whether that call is accurate or not. The result is that badly needed fixes in an obsolescent election system never do get made. That in turn leaves a system that is open to unintentional error or, in some cases, intentional tampering with the votes.

The latest shake-up of the board of elections staff in Lucas County has never been adequately explained, which means, in effect, that past errors may simply be repeated in future election cycles.

Too much error is creeping into a cumbersome and complex election system. As a result, many observers at home and abroad are beginning to believe and sometimes slyly suggest that the United States, like many Third World countries with little experience in democratic elections, may need the help of foreign observers. At any rate, there simply is no excuse for the miserable performance of much of the American electoral system.

:-)

[Stevepol]

8. The Phillips article is also posted on smirkingchimp.com which gives

the following as the original site (I think the site just given above): http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/1037

smirking chimp is of course: <www.smirkingchimp.com>

[ohio_liberal]

7. Well duh.....

You could pick any one of 88 Ohio counties and find something screwy about this election. So glad they've decided to jump in the fray.

[Kelvin Mace]

9. Out of the supposed 3000+ FOIA's

she raised money for and filed, she has come up with ONE county for people to examine 58 days after the election?

At this rate, she'll be through posting the info by AD 2480.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[troubleinwinter]

10. I have not been able to figure out how many FOIAs were actually sent.

The comment on her site was that "The first wave" of 3000, nationwide, had been sent. At first I assumed it meant 3000, but on reading it more carefully, I can't tell if "the first wave" consisted of 10 or 35 or 400, or what. ????

[Kelvin Mace]

11. Ealier postings (since erased)

mention the 3,000 number and the need for money to file them.

This was a dumb idea becaue:

1) It is a waste of limited resources.
2) It is an invitation to be buried in data that will take years to sift through.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[LiberalHeart]

12. Bev's reasons for linking Lucas County to fraud.....

...look pretty paltry to me. Perhaps there's gold in those Freedom of Information files that she has also made available, but I don't have a clue how to read them or interpret them.

I hope, if Bev truly has good solid reasons for the fraud charge, she will pull those reasons out of the files (or whatever proof she has) and post them in plain English along with her so-far not very persuasive list. Resignations and suspensions at the BOE are par for the course in what has been a troubled operation for some time now, and I don't think the miscount of a single vote is going to get us very far in the election fraud movement.

[berniew1]

14. Richard Phillips has documentation on his site about Lucas co. fraud-

http://northnet.org/minstrel/alpage.htm

and for other counties as well

[Kelvin Mace]

16. So, once again

Bev is making her accusations based on someone else's work.

Then she comes over to DU to try and get people to do more work for her, which she will then try to peddle as her own "research"

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[ccarter84]

15. ok, I understand that there was suppression, but is it possible

that there would be less turnout in the higher kerry districts due to economic (job hours) conditions and other?

ok now hoping that's wrong, here's my theory
they padded the heavy bush precincts
they actively suppressed and took away some of the kerry margin in the heavy kerry precincts and then smoothed things out when the 'totals' were in the central tabulator