Can Someone Please Explain What is Happening??????

[trayfoot]

I have read the various threads about "suits", and I am more confused than ever! Have we come to the end of the "prove fraud" process? Are we "screwed"? Simple, SIMPLE language! Thanks!

[NMDemDist2]

1. read this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=199763&mesg_id=199763

[Daisey Mae]

2. We have a lot of evidence of fraud of all kinds of things in Ohio vote

[Doctor O]

3. Sorry but the lawyers here are saying that based on what they have

seen to date there is little solid evidence of fraud, simply indications that it may have occurred.

[New Earth]

6. the lawyers here.

[Jo March]

13. Faye, some people say...

Some people.

[jazzjunkysue]

21. lots of evidence exists

With video and sworn testimony of thousands of blacks in line for several hours, and with the actual pamphlets that were handed out telling Blacks to vote on the wrong day, or in the wrong prescinct, we have tons of evidence of voter supression. Add to that the tampering at the recount and Blackwell's refusal to follow the law, and there are truckloads of evidence. The Triad people, alone, warrant a suit. Just the fact that Blackwell was the co-chair of the Bush re-election campaign was enough. Then, there's the inviation to the fund raiser where Diebold's owner Odell promised to deliver the presidency to Bush. It's all there. Nothing missing but a judge who doesn't want his grandkids dying in Iran or Syria for his cheap oil and tax cuts.

[EVDebs]

4. If the evidence of vote fraud is accumulating, it begs the question

as to how coordinated it was. If there was a Texas Strike Force making phone calls in OH, etc, etc, etc, they didn't just do that from whatever hotel they were staying at ON THEIR OWN. It must have originated with CREEP and Rove...

I smell a conspiracy to subvert Election 2004.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

10. Or.....

Wayne Madison says he's on to a bunch of "prayer groups" that may have been more like meetings (think freepers in a real life room) where these fundies 'cohorted' together. :tinfoilhat:

[pleiku52cab]

5. We have all the smoke but not the gun

Hopefully by collecting all the smoke we can find a gun. The election results cannot be changed without it and neither will the other 80% believe the FRAUD without the gun. I think our best hope is frying Blackwell. Get him under oath and and break him.

[Firespirit]

7. Things HAVE been moving fast

And there are a lot of (IMO) unnecessary tangents and flamefests going on as well. But here's the situation, as I understand it.

There are three BIG lawsuits:

1. Moss v. Bush is the Contest of Election suit, filed by Arnebeck, Bonifaz, and Truitt in the Ohio Supreme Court. It is the suit referred to in any threads that mention Bush, Rove, or Cheney being subpoenaed. It has been delayed by OH Chief Justice Moyer.

2. Moss v. Moyer is a Contest of Election suit, filed by Arnebeck, challenging the re-election of said Chief Justice. Because they were too vague in it, they have till 1/7 to "put up or shut up" on it.

3. Yost v. Cobb (not sure about the actual name) is the Federal case filed by the Green Party, Libertarian Party, and with K-E 04 as an Intervenor-Defendant. Bonifaz is involved with this case as well. The motion filed by Kerry's lawyer relates to this case, and apparently the judge who will handle it is said to be friendly..... They've requested a computer forensic investigation of Triad equipment and expedited discovery.

[Firespirit]

9. #3 is key

IF they can get expedited discovery and an investigation of the equipment and ballots, that can provide the needed smoking gun and help Moss v. Bush, although it's a separate case. The delay isn't necessarily bad, provided it isn't too long.

[intheflow]

12. Thanks, Firespirit.

That was the clearest explanation I've heard about any of hese cases so far. Really didn't even know to differentiate Arnebeck from the K-
E 04 entry on the scene.

Welcome to DU! :yourock:

[trayfoot]

15. Thanks Firespirit - that helps a bit!

[Firespirit]

16. You're welcome.

I just remembered something. IIRC, the original Cobb motion also demanded an expedited hand count of ballots wherever equipment had been messed with. I am not sure about this. BUT, if it is true, then the Kerry motion also asks for that, because it is worded to "adopt" the full Cobb motion as its own.

I hear that the reason why the Cobb motion didn't work was because Cobb could not demonstrate a chance of "success on the merits" and this is the same reason why Kerry filing the motion gives it a much better chance... he could demonstrate that probability. At least, that's what Will Pitt says. He's our oracle. :) Seriously, he was aware that the thing would be filed several days before it happened.

[Dancing_Dave]

17. Why the hell did Arnebeck shoot himself right in the foot?

By going after an Ohio judge who would be involved in deciding the case????

I don't care what they've got on him, that dumb move dropped their chance of success against Bush to 0% too.

Maybe they didn't really want to win, but wanted the outcome to clearly show judicial corruption??? I don't quite get it.

I guess all we've got to hope for is the Green and Libertarian case, even though it's probably to narrow to expose most of the illegal election rigging in Ohio, and thus unlikely to produce numbers that could change Ohio's electoral votes.

[Firespirit]

18. I wondered why he touched that election myself.

Good question. It seemed to be a loss of focus. Maybe he has his reasons, but I'd like to know what they are.

I'm sincerely hoping that he is taking advantage of this delay to gather the smoking guns for Moss v. Bush. Some of the recount volunteers were in contact with him, and lord knows there was enough illegal activity during THAT farce.

Additionally, Yost has the potential to provide good evidence. And it seems to be the most likely to get somewhere on its own merits.

[New Earth]

19. that's what i didn't understand

[mordarlar]

20. here is a good site to catch up on the cases...

it is not quite current last i checked but shows documents.

[intheflow]

8. Hi Trayfoot.

It can get overwhelming, can't it? Are you really new, or did you lurk for a while? Just asking because all this legalese reminds me of the weeks right after the election when I tried to follow the statistical analysis. Both law and stats are so technical and academic they give me a headache. :crazy:

So I'm sorry I can't enlighten you, but I wanted to welcome you to DU! :hi:

[trayfoot]

14. Not terribly new - but I do lurk and read a lot!

I have posted quite a few threads - just not on a consistent basis. I am totally confused about what is happening. Seems the more I read, the more confused I get! Thanks for the welcome!

[mordarlar]

11. in very very simple terms as i understand it...

there are two separate lawsuits in Ohio. At first they were combined. The judge who was assigned to them was named in the suit. He threw them out. Said they needed to be separate. There are certain things that needed to be included in the one suit. For some unexplainable reason, they were not included. The judge gave a certain amount of time for this to be repaired. The attorney now needs to prove without evidence (i think) that there was in fact fraud. He cannot simply say there is reason to believe there is. If anyone finds this to be inaccurate please respond to it. I am still more than a bit confused myself.