Email from NYTimes: Election Fraud Coverage in Ohio is NOT Over

[Helga Scow Stern]

I just got this in response to my email of 12/13. They must have just sent out over 700 of these!


At 03:07 PM 12/13/2004, (Ojai Person) wrote:

What is this, a coup by the Bush administration?

Here the ranking Democratic House Judiciary Committee Member holds two hearings at the request of many disenfranchised voters, and no one even cares? What is with you guys?

As a news consumer, I want to see this covered. This is history in the making. You should be reporting it, investigating it, not pretending it is a joke, an outrage, or that it isn't happening.

Thank you very much.

Sincerely,
XXXXXXXXX

They replied:

Dear XXXXXXXXXX

Over the past month over seven hundred other readers have raised similar concerns requesting more coverage on this issue. You may be interested in the following articles:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/22/politics/22poll.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/15/politics/15ohio.html

I raised reader concerns with Mr. Okrent and a few days ago he asked me to let you know that he does not believe The Times's coverage of the voting in Ohio is over.

The following articles have since appeared:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/29/politics/29ohio.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/24/national/24vote.html

Mr. Okrent wanted me to write you back asking that you please stay tuned.

Sincerely,
Arthur Bovino
Office of the Public Editor
The New York Times


http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Ohio-Vote-Challenge.html

December 28, 2004

Ohio Official Refuses Interview Over Vote
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 9:21 a.m. ET

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- The secretary of state, who declared President Bush the official winner in Ohio, is seeking a court order to keep himself from being interviewed as part of a court challenge of the Nov. 2 vote.



http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Ohio-Vote.html

December 28, 2004

Ohio Recount Ends, Shows Vote Closer
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 7:41 p.m. ET

TOLEDO, Ohio (AP) -- Election officials finished the presidential recount in Ohio on Tuesday, with the final tally shaving about 300 votes off President Bush's six-figure margin of victory in the state that gave him a second term.

snip--

Attorney General Jim Petro has called the challenge frivolous and argued that the state Supreme Court does not have jurisdiction over a federal election.

Cliff Arnebeck, an attorney representing the voters in the challenge, wasn't taking much stock in the recount effort. He questioned why there was no independent investigation into the accuracy of counting machines to determine whether the machines had been tampered with.

``You're allowing the original error to be repeated a second time, so it's not a meaningful recount,'' he said.



http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Election-Poll-Data.html

December 21, 2004

Michigan Congressman Seeks Exit Poll Data
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 11:00 p.m. ET

NEW YORK (AP) -- The top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee has asked The Associated Press and five broadcast networks to turn over raw exit poll data collected on Election Day so that any discrepancies between the data and the certified election results can be investigated.

Rep. John Conyers Jr. of Michigan said in a letter released Tuesday in Washington that the polling firms that conducted the polls on behalf of the news organizations, Mitofsky International and Edison Media Research, had declined to share the information with the committee.

snip--

The AP and the five television outlets -- ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, and Fox -- formed a consortium called the National Election Pool to conduct exit polls for this year's election after disbanding a previous exit poll group called the Voter News Service, which had problems in both the 2000 and 2002 elections.

Edie Emery, a spokeswoman for the National Election Pool and a CNN employee, said the poll data were still being analyzed and that the group's board would decide how to release a full report on the data early next year. ``To release any information now would be incomplete,'' she said.

snip--

The exit polling was conducted for the AP and for ABC, a unit of The Walt Disney Co.; CBS, a unit of Viacom Inc.; NBC, a unit of General Electric Co.; CNN, a unit of Time Warner Inc.; and Fox News, owned by News Corp.

``Like Congressman Conyers, we believe the American people deserve answers,'' said Jack Stokes, a spokesman for the AP. ``We want exit polling information to be made public as soon as it is available, as we intended. At this time, the data is still being evaluated for a final report to the National Election Pool.''

Officials from ABC and NBC referred calls for comment to the National Election Pool, where CNN's Emery responded for the group. A CBS spokeswoman declined to comment, and officials at Fox could not be reached.

Earlier this month Kerry asked county election officials in Ohio to allow his witnesses to inspect the 92,000 ballots cast in the state in which no vote for president was recorded.

Despite improvements since 2000, when the presidential outcome was delayed for weeks by problems counting ballots in Florida, the nation's voting system remains a locally administered patchwork whose lack of national uniformity distinguishes the United States from many other democracies.

Most complaints have come from Democrats and third-party candidates, but Republicans and bipartisan groups have acknowledged problems. The Government Accountability Office is investigating election problems. Rep. Bob Ney, R-Ohio and chairman of the House Administration Committee, will oversee an inquiry next year.

The U.S. Election Assistance Commission, created in 2002, is also scrutinizing the outcome. It plans to publish in January the government's first report on the voting, which will serve as the basis for congressional recommendations and reforms.



Doesn't this seem like GOOD NEWS? :wow: :bounce: :wow:

[NVMojo]

1. I am loving this! Thanks for your hard work!!!!!

[Helga Scow Stern]

3. Heck, me and over 700 hundred others! I'm so happy they are noticing!

:hi:And thank you! I am so enjoying all of your hard work too! Everyone's!
I feel like a mini-celebration is in order, for a few seconds:

:party: :grouphug: :party:

Now back to work!

[aquart]

8. Thank you.

[SlowDownFast]

2. goody, goody........n/t

[EFerrari]

4. Great! I cancelled AND emailed Okrent AND Letters AND

filled some poor phone bank guy's ear. They did publish a one sentence letter of mine re "Directions for Democrats": Count our votes.

Definitely, good news.

[illflem]

5. It's very encouraging that you got a reply

whenever I write the media I never get response. Alway makes me wonder if my efforts are falling on deaf ears.

[thanatonautos]

6. Great work ... the 12/29 article by Albert Salvato has some good lines.

Daniel Trevas, a spokesman for the Ohio Democratic Party, said Democrats supported the recount but found that county elections officials sometimes ignored requests by recount observers to see rejected absentee and provisional ballots, and were not informed about procedures used to recount and reject ballots.

"Some of these boards did not give us full access during the recount," Mr. Trevas said.

He said that in one county, Clermont County, in southwest Ohio, numerous complaints were filed by Democrats and the two independent parties when access to recount procedures was ignored.

"We have to continue to be more persistent so we bring satisfaction to the voters of Ohio," Mr. Trevas said.

This nicely makes the point that the count was flawed,
and the battle continues!

[Helga Scow Stern]

7. Yes, it is legitimizing the effort and bringing questions to light.

That's to be appreciated, even though it plays the fraud angle hardly at all. It's paving the way for what may come.

[angel54321]

9. Good job Ojai n/t

[Hekate]

10. Excellent work! Have you written the Los Angeles Times?

Have they said anything?

Kudos to you and the 699 others who wrote the NY Times!

Hekate

[Helga Scow Stern]

21. Yes, but no response. A friend here in Ojai called them and talked to a

reporter, who said that they would be covering the story soon. Then the article with Arnebeck saying maybe Kerry isn't joining in because he belongs to Skull and Bones came out.

That article by LA Times was quite dismissive of Arnebeck and of fraud. But I wondered at the time if it served a purpose.

[Clark2008]

11. Got the same, identical e-mail in my inbox

this morning.

Was coming here to report it.

[hlthe2b]

12. Yours is a Great email... Professional, but to the point!

Kudos!

[berniew1]

13. Support the case; Give Media and Arnebeck more info; here's how:

I have gone through the EIRS election incident reports at
www.voteprotect.org to document widespread vote machine fraud patterns that occurred in Florida. http://www.flcv.com/fraudpat.html

But in doing so I saw large numbers of cases reported of obvious partisan actions that resulted in vote swings by officials and poll workers. This is malfeasance and should not be tolerated as it is contrary to the possibility of a democratic process.

People should go through the thousands of EIRS incident reports at http://www.voteprotect.org to compile obvious cases of partisan malfeasance, which resulted in people not being able to vote or their vote being recorded for someone other than their choice(both commonly happened). These should be reported on this list and to Arnebeck and authorities, as malfeasance should not be tolerated in officials.
Go to reseeach/maps click on state of choice and counties of choice
compile cases of malfeasance or indications of fraud if seen.
Such will be useful to Arnebeck, etc.

[JD Lau]

14. Yeah. At least you are now engaging in a dialogue with

one of the potential major players.

Great!

[henslee]

15. Okrent is a tool.

[Helga Scow Stern]

22. Is he? I'm not that familiar with him. n/t

[henslee]

27. I know he used to write for SI. He's into baseball. He had no problem

taking off the whole month of Aug -- during this election year during which the P.E. pen was silent. Not cool.

Here's his own short bio in his own words on his first day at NYT:
(snip) "I'm a registered Democrat, but notably to the right of my fellow Democrats on Manhattan's Upper West Side. When you turn to the paper's designated opinion pages tomorrow, draw a line from The Times's editorials on the left side to William Safire's column over on the right: you could place me just about at the halfway point. But on some issues I veer from the noncommittal middle. I'm an absolutist on free trade and free speech, and a supporter of gay rights and abortion rights who thinks that the late Cardinal John O'Connor was a great man. I believe it's unbecoming for the well off to whine about high taxes, and inconsistent for those who advocate human rights to oppose all American military action. I'd rather spend my weekends exterminating rats in the tunnels below Penn Station than read a book by either Bill O'Reilly or Michael Moore. I go to a lot of concerts. I hardly ever go to the movies. I've hated the Yankees since I was 6."

[MellowOne]

16. ``You're allowing the original error to be repeated a second time,

so it's not a meaningful recount." That's what I've been saying for awhile!

I found it interesting that 60 major papers backed Kerry but when people were shouting fraud, they didn't want to cover that issue. Hopfully, they are now seeing the writing on the wall.

[frictionlessO]

17. right the fuck on!! gotta go check my email!!

My anger grows and my belief grows everyday!! I believe I believe I believe!!!!

[FogerRox]

18. what was on the front page? Dear NY Times.

http://www.51capitalmarch.com /
[e-mail] /

[frictionlessO]

19. ? not sure what youre asking for here?

:shrug:

[FogerRox]

23. The times coverage that is noted---where was it? Front page?

The value of a front page head line--"KErry enters Ohio recount fray "
in large letters.

[frictionlessO]

25. ahhh true, I see what youre saying now...

still when you consider where we were a few short weeks ago, Ill take it as a starting point if nothing else...

[FogerRox]

32. yes I know - when you get fish soup with just bones it--and then one day

you get a fish eye in your soup--that might be sumtin to cheer about--NOT

[frictionlessO]

36. geeze louise!! I was trying to be nice!

Im not where you are at I guess... Ill take all and any hope I can get these days.

Whether its front or back its a little hope... and not exactly false...

sorry if my enthusiam upset you in any way.

[FogerRox]

41. apologizes--I come on too hard sometimes SORRRY

I lump the NY TImes into the same group of lying scum MSM that we all know too well.
They didnt say dick cheney about Ken Star representing International Paper When IP Sold the land to the Mcdougals and Clintons, he was there back in the 70's and the times didnt lift a finger --let alone call a spade a spade.

[FogerRox]

42. UR absolutly right--it is a start--but please MR NY Times

Shift it into hi gear and TELL THE TRUTH--

[floridadem30]

20. Thanks for the post. N/T

[Pithy Cherub]

24. Great letter and thanks for writing.

No responses for me so far, but will keep sending! It gives one extra incentive to keep writing!

[davidlynch]

26. Great News Ojai Person--Thanks n/t

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

28. It's time to beat that dead horse again..

"The secretary of state, who declared President Bush the official winner in Ohio, is seeking a court order to keep himself from being interviewed as part of a court challenge of the Nov. 2 vote."

WHAT ARE THEY HIDING?

[Vidar]

29. Thanks for posting, Ojai. The response is encouraging.

[EFerrari]

30. I just got something different.

Here is their reply, then mine:

NYT: At 04:54 PM 12/11/2004, you wrote:

> Mr. Okrent
>
> I personally think it's outrageous that the Times
> failed to cover the Conyer's hearings.
>
> And now, Mr. Blackwell is sabotaging the Ohio recount
> in violation of OH state law.
>
> Is the Times going to ignore this whole story? I'd
> like to know so that I can reconsider my subscription
> options. If the Times won't cover the news, I have to
> find a paper that does.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Elizabeth Ferrari
>



Dear Ms. Ferrari,

In the first few weeks after the election several readers wrote us about this issue. Mr. Okrent responded to these concerns on his web journal. I include the entry below (see post #35).

http://forums.nytimes.com/top/opinion/readersopinions/forums/thepubliceditor/danielokrent/index.html?offset=36&fid=.f555e99/36

dokrent - 5:40 PM ET November 21, 2004 (#35 of 40)

The Times and Covering Allegations of Election Fraud

Sorry to have been neglecting this spot for so long; I could give you a list of excuses, but none of them
is especially good.

Now, though, my mailbox has begun to overflow with criticisms of The Times for not looking more deeply
into allegations of large-scale vote fraud in Ohio and Florida, a story (if true) that no one can ignore. In some
of these messages, writers say that "now that the theft of the election has been proven ...," The Times must
reveal this to the wider world.

Were the assertion even nearly so, I would do more than recommend that The Times reveal it ­ I’d be
demanding it publicly, loudly and frequently. But the evidence I have seen to date proves nothing, other than
that there was a certain amount of error in certain counties, and an aggressive effort by some partisans in
some areas to challenge some likely Democratic voters. To my knowledge, no one in the Kerry campaign’s
vast on-the-ground operation, or in its armies of well-situated lawyers, has made the argument that what
happened in Ohio (or Florida) could have changed the result of the election. Similar views were explained
in "Vote Fraud Theories, Spread By Blogs, Are Quickly Buried," by Tom Zeller (Nov. 12).

And more, I expect, will be explored and explained in future articles if meaningful allegations can indeed
be established as facts. Both Matthew Purdy, the head of The Times’s investigative unit, and Rick Berke, the
paper’s Washington editor, assure me that reporters will continue to look into the issue. I’m confident that if
they find something, they’ll publish it. A good investigative reporter (much less a whole staff of them) turning
away from a story like this one ­ if true ­ would be like a flower turning away from the sun. Careers are made
by stories that detail massive election fraud.

But: the operative words here are if true. Wishing doesn’t make it so. Although it would probably pain him to
have someone from The Times touting his work, David Corn of The Nation, in a recent column, offers plenty
of reason to examine the allegations before I, or anyone else, should leap to give them credence. You can
find Corn’s column here.

Since then, over seven hundred other readers have raised similar concerns requesting more coverage on this issue. You may be interested in the following articles:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/22/politics/22poll.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/15/politics/15ohio.html

I raised reader concerns with Mr. Okrent and a few days ago he asked me to let you know that he does not believe The Times's coverage of the voting in Ohio is over.

The following articles have since appeared:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/29/politics/29ohio.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/24/national/24vote.html

Mr. Okrent wanted me to write you back asking that you please stay tuned.

Sincerely,
Arthur Bovino
Office of the Public Editor
The New York Times

* * *

My reply to the PE's Office today:

Mr. Okrent,

I appreciate your office's response to my letter. And
respectfully submit:

1) The Times do not serve Mr. Kerry or his interests,
but the public's or put another way, the electorate's.
Whether the Kerry organization wishes to investigate
this matter or not, and their filings show they do,
the public interest in the integrity of their
elections is the issue here.

2) The Times is not a court of law, and therefore
need not know the "truth" of the questions swirling
around our last federal election, just as they could
not know the "truth" of the claims of WMD before the
war. But the issue was raised.

No one (I hope!) is asking that the Times report a
question as a fact. But many of us would like to see
the fact that many are raising questions (holding
hearings, etc.) reported. And we'd like the Times to
ask some questions of their own about the work that
has already been done in the many investigations
ongoing, conflicting as it does with (in particular)
Mr. Ken Blackwell's official story.

Thank you,
Elizabeth Ferrari

[Helga Scow Stern]

31. Interesting--they left off the poo-pooing part in our shortened versions.

Without that web column from 11/21, the post is hopeful. Stay tuned for more coverage sounds good to me.

Your response was excellent.

[EFerrari]

33. Thanks. I've been practicing ever since Jessica Lynch .

[AntiFascist]

34. That's the best news I've heard all day! nt

[EFerrari]

35. They're definitely feeling it. Let's keep the pressure on. Okrent

seems to be a very careful and fair minded guy. Under corporate pressure, no doubt.

The good news is, we're counter balancing that pressure. Awesome. Good for us!

Cheers,
Beth

[peacetalksforall]

37. Interesting tid-bit for follow-up by legal minded soldiers...

"The state has become an emblem of continuing ailments in the nation's electoral process, because of Election Day events like seven-hour lines that drove voters away from the polls, malfunctioning machines, poorly trained poll workers who directed people to the wrong polling places and uneven policies about the use of provisional ballots, which were given to voters whose registration was contested."
This was a paragraph in the one of the respsonses from the NYT. The phrase that caught my eye is this -

"...poorly trained poll workers who directed people to the wrong polling places..."

Has anyone reported on this - would it not be possible to interview these poll workers to ask if they were aware that they had given out wrong information and whether they agree that they gave out wrong information and how they discovered it and when and who gave them the wrong information - names, date, places. Follow it up the heirarchy?

I call these mistakes possible intentional bigotry and theft. The statement about mistakes should be investigated.

[KaryninMiami]

38. I got one too- someone forwarded my newsletter and they wrote back to me!

Same thing as listed here- same "form letter". Not sure whether it means good news or whatever, but it is funny that so many of us have received the same exact response from Mr. Bovino.

Now I can't help but wonder how many of these were sent out and what they must be thinking at the NY Times to have received so many emails prompting this reply.

[s-cubed]

39. Thanks - I copied your e-mail in a letter to the WashPost,

and suggested they were behind the eight ball. Maybe competition will work, where nothing else will

[bush_is_wacko]

40. Good! n/t

[yojon]

43. On the value of the NY Times Response

Well at least they responded. That is good.

I would rate the value of the response as two out of ten wet fart noises.

That would be approximately: "Blat... blat...."

[Debbie13]

44. Great