A plea for brainstorming help: Suppose you could convince

[Jackpine Radical]

a large number of the public at large--not necessarily a majority, but a large number--that the election was stolen. What action would you want those people to take? What could they do that would help?

If we can't come up with some simple, concrete, do-able, effective actions for people to undertake once they are persuaded, then why bother trying to convince them at all? At most, you'll end up with a lot of frustrated people. At worst, you may convince them that they are helpless, that nothing they do matters, thus playing into the hands of the Repugs. Insight must be paired with action. What is the action?

Is bombarding politicians enough? Democrats probably already know what happened, and Repugs have apparently figured out how to get elected without the help of majorities, so maybe that isn't the answer.

The fact of the matter is that a large number of people already believe that the election was corrupt, but have no idea what they can do about it. We already have a large base, but no idea what to do with them.

Let's brainstorm this for a bit.

[MarkusQ]

1. There very existance forms a market

And markets cause (sympathetic) media coverage.

And media coverage needs a story.

And getting a story requires research. So the media will either 1) get off their duffs and investigate, 2) demand that someone else do so, or 3) give airplay to those (such as Conyers) who are doing so already.

This will make the investigation harder to stop.

That's why we want people interested.

--MarkusQ

[Jackpine Radical]

4. I'm more cynical than you are.

I don't think the media are ignoring this story simply because they don't perceive any interest in it. Rather, their parent corporations profit mightily from having Bush in power, & they are out to maintain the dictatorship. There is no free press, there is no fair press, there is no investigative press. There is only a corporate toady press. They did everthing they could to get Bush (s)elected for the benefit of their masters, and they aren't backing down now.

[MarkusQ]

5. The invisible hand

You may be totally correct, but I assert that it doesn't matter. If enough of the market moves they have to follow, or they lose to whoever does.

The motto of the media might as well be "I must catch up with the others, for I am their leader."

--MarkusQ

[Jackpine Radical]

6. Adam Smith's "invisible hand?"

Nope. Too many potentially dynamite stories get buried every year, stories that would blow the sox off the public, but they're buried anyway, because they don't fit the plan. Nobody dares to lead, nobody dares to follow. Adam Smith's theories only work if there's a free market, but that assumption is not met very many places in today's version of capitalism. Certainly not in MSM.

[MarkusQ]

7. Stories yes, markets no.

They can afford to ignore stories 'till the cows come home. That's not the point. If enough people take up election fraud as an interest, they become a market. That's what the MSM can't afford to ignore. At that point it doesn't matter if there's a story or not--if they ignore it, the market they are ignoring starts going elsewhere to get there news. Once that process goes too far, it's irreversible. Read (for example) "The Innovator's Dilemma"--anyone doing corporate strategic planing has already read it; it's a core part of the culture.

The MSM can, and will, ignore stories for which there is no pre-existing market. The must (and will) provide stories for existing markets (even if they have to make them up). The point is to get enough people tuned into this issue that we become a market demographic that shows up on their radar.

--MarkusQ

[No Exit]

8. Hello Jackpine Radical... I agree with you that there is only

a corporate toady press, as far as the "mainstream" is concerned.

But you know what? Just since Nov. 3 or so, I've been keeping a log of internet sites which put out a message which mirrors what people here are feeling, and there are so many such sites that I can't keep up with them all! That's our media--and it's available even to those who are trapped in "red" states. It may not have the noise or insidious presence of a loud TV, but it's still out there. And it's this internet media from which I get all my news now--not the TV.

I hope the TV, AND the spewing radio talk shows, AND those newspapers that give only the corporate message, will soon find themselves entirely marginalized, as news-followers begin to read internet news sites that tell us the truth. I hope it makes the "mainstream" media and their advertisers lose big money. If they lose money, they WILL notice.

[Jackpine Radical]

9. Yes, the Net is where it's happening, and I get almost all my news

from Net sites. But no matter how much activity there appears to be out there, it still doesn't include a majority of the public. Maybe half of America is connected, bost people actually don't stray far from AOL, Yahoo, etc. & therefore don't get much more than they would from MSM. And I'm afraid that when we start getting successful, we'll get shut down one way or another. I can tell you for sure that right now, most Dem politicians still equate "Internet" with "Wacko." Like when my wife brought up some fraud info to a Dem Congresscritter, he said, "What's that? Some kinda Internet conspiracy stuff?"

[rdmccur]

11. Yet I know

many people who either don't use the internet (they don't use a computer) or, if they do access the internet, they don't go to the sites
where the 'truth' is news or they believe this news is coming from nut cases (because it's absent from their tvs and radios and paper sources).
Talking to people can help if one has good credibility with them, but I think strangers or casual acquaintances will generally be dismissive.
On the positive note: I just do what I can to communicate electronically and talk to selective people. Existing progressive organizations can do a lot, especially if they have good connectivity with portions of the public or even local news media. Most localities probably have these.

[libertypirate]

2. I suggest simply opening your mouth and talking to people

about it. It works if you aren't picking fights!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x208164

[Senior citizen]

3. In Washington state the recount made Gregoire governor.

Here in San Diego we're wearing orange, waving signs (rally Sunday, 2:00 p.m., 4th & Broadway, rain or shine), and filing law suits. Our illigitimate mayor said that just because people wrote in Donna Frye's name for mayor, he can't tell what their intent was if they didn't fill in the bubble next to the line where they wrote her name. And he's supposedly a college grad.

Another thing you can do is join the Consumers Party http://freewebs.com/theconsumersparty or organize a chapter in your state. An anti-corporate political party that doesn't ask for or accept donations, can't be bought. In any area where registered Consumers outnumber other parties, we will track every vote. How can we do this without money? Because we're not a corporation, so we don't have to reach out to consumers: we ARE consumers. And we want better choices, including parties and candidates that represent our interests instead of the interests of big corporations. If you think that raising money will get money out of politics, you probably haven't thought about it very much.

[Fly by night]

10. Organize 1/6/05 protests outside Congresspeoples' offices

in all cities in your state that have local offices for the Congresspeople. And do it early enough on 1/6 so that that the local offices can report to DC that you're there. And come prepared with a signed petition to reject the electoral vote that the local offices can fax to the Congresspeople.

We will do this in Tennessee and want our Senators and Representatives to get simultaneous calls from ALL their local offices on the day of the vote. In the meantime, we are writing and calling like mad, are getting radio air time to discuss the election theft (on nine radio stations so far, for no less than 30 minutes apiece) and continuing to have large meetings to attract the press. Our third Gathering To Save Our Democracy is this Sunday and (hopefully) will draw 300+ people. (There's a thread describing the Gathering further down in the pages.)

[berniew1]

12. Its just a matter of getting the documentation out to more people

There's lots of documentation the election was stolen in Ohio, New Mexico, and Florida;

Free Press site has lots of documentation of systematic suppression of minorities and both machine fraud and other types of fraud in Ohio,
along with affidavits from voters, experts, officials
http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19

as does Richard Phillips site: http://northnet.org/minstrel/alpage.htm

and documentation of widespread vote machine fraud and suppression of minorities in Florida and New Mexico at
http://www.flcv.com/fraudpat.html

[berniew1]

13. If Congress contests the electors and investigates, many more will hear

about the widespread suppression of minorities, dirty tricks, and fraud of many types that was at the core of the Bush campaign in swing states. Then given Bush's already bad credibility and ratings the majority will believe something should be done.