anyone find it strange that marines will be in Ohio?

[roenyc]

i know nothing about Ohio, and i realize its a large state, so someone clue me in. i just dont trust anyone! and and its a day after the vote thing. :shrug:

Marines will stay close to home for urban training
Unit to use downtown Toledo

By DALE EMCH
BLADE STAFF WRITER

The Marines will take over parts of downtown Toledo as sounds of gunfire will echo off buildings when training exercises are conducted next weekend.

A Marine Corps unit based in Perrysburg will stage the exercises from 9 p.m. Jan. 7 to about noon Jan. 9, Maj. Gregory Cramer said.

Major Cramer said most of the 130-member unit - Weapons Company, 1st Battalion, 24th Marines - will take part in the exercises.

"We're looking for an urban environment to do our training," he said. "Urban training is one of the proficiencies we're required to maintain."

Major Cramer said Marines will be dressed in green and will be carrying rifles through the streets, but the exercises should have a minimal impact on the downtown area. He said the Marines will be firing blanks and conducting operations throughout the area.

"The only request we would have of folks, if they happen to be near where an exercise is taking place, is to stay away as much as possible," Major Cramer said. rest of article...http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2004412290352

[Carolab]

1. If I were in Toledo I'd be all over this, calling the radio and TV news

to find out WHY. Have they EVER done this before? Taken over a downtown area for "urban training"? What the fuck IS THIS?

[TrustingDog]

2. wouldn't have something to do with demonstrations, huh?

welcome to the beginning of the fast end.

[TexasChick]

Yeah, I saw this article posted in LBN the other day and it is scarier

than sh*t! Could this be the beginning of this martial law stuff that we have been fearing? Scary times, folks, scary times!

[nashville_brook]

8. containment -- they'll do anything to avoid actually declaring

anything like martial law. probably -- they want protesters to know the marines are there and NOT SHOW UP.

[TexasChick]

10. That makes sense too. n/t

[Doctor O]

12. Its a fucking reserve unit from Ohio based in a suburb of Toledo!!!!

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

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[rockedthevoteinMA]

20. Lol TexasChick!!!

:toast:

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SammyWinstonJack]

40. LOL

:bounce:

[ChicanoPwr]

59. A Texan with spunk, gotta love it

You and I may be in a Red State, but I am gald you are on our side.

[femme.democratique]

23. "Doctor O" my ass... yeah, right, Doctor of Obloquy (look it up, genius)..

Why do they need to train in American urban environments? Ask yourself that question. There is NO REASON they need to train there unless:

1) They believe they will need to fight in American cities
2) They need to know how to control American cities
3) They want to prepare to subvert any protests stemming from the Election issues coming next week.

[Doctor O]

25. Perhaps they are preparing for deployment to Iraq where

Urban warfare is used. Perhaps it is part of their normal training cycle.

And why should I have to look obloquy up?? If I already understand its meaning.

[femme.democratique]

31. Urban warfare in Iraq....quite dissimilar to downtown Toledo IMO

and, the military has facilities to simulate urban warfare. As someone who seems to have such keen knowledge of military operations, you should know that. So, I beg, what could possibly necessitate "games" in a city where LIVE people are actually trying to live their lives?

So what does it mean? I'm waiting....

[rdmccur]

83. Yep, duhhh

[Chimpanzee]

46. Have you ever heard of such a thing before? I haven't!

Instead of showing concern, you just show contempt for anyone that would question this or the motives involved. Hmmmm where have I seen that attitude before.....:boring:

[Blue Christmas]

47. For the record...

I did have to look up "obloquy" (and to think I was an English Major - how embarrassing). For those of you too lethargic to look it up yourselves, according to my Webster's New World Dictionary and Thesaurus it means:

1. widespread censure or abuse
2. disgrace or infamy resulting from this

Well. Glad we cleared THAT up! And thank you, femme.democratique, for enriching my word power! :D

[femme.democratique]

53. Hehehe....I was going to use a more generic word...

but had to use an O word to match "his" username ...

From dictionary.com:

ob·lo·quy
n. pl. ob·lo·quies
1) Abusively detractive language or utterance; calumny: “I have had enough obloquy for one lifetime” (Anthony Eden).
2) The condition of disgrace suffered as a result of abuse or vilification; ill repute.

[Horse with no Name]

89. Give me a break...Ohio?

How disimiliar can you get to Iraq? Urban warfare is not used in Iraq--guerilla tactics are used. Big difference.
I know the army sent troops to the Nevada desert to prepare for deployment...but unless Toledo has untold desert and suicide bombers--then the reasons are very suspect as to why they chose this location.
And by the way...it's NOT part of their normal training cycle.
They have bases for that.

[BoomerSoonerOKU]

26. What's the difference

between a building in the U.S. and a building in another country?

[femme.democratique]

29. the difference is not in the "buildings" its in the environment.

why do they need to train in a city with actual live citizens just to fight in Iraq?

[BoomerSoonerOKU]

32. I would imagine

because many of the battles are in the cities. Would you rather them spend a ton of money building cities so they could do their training there? This isn't a new phenomenon.

[femme.democratique]

33. Come on, they have simulation environments for this.

I don't buy it for a minute. As some of the other posts in this thread have noted, this is happening across the nation.

[BoomerSoonerOKU]

36. I doubt

a 130 member unit based in a suburb of Toledo has a simulation environment available to them near-by. I've seen military exercises by a lot of the armed forces near or in cities around here throgh the years. I don't think it means they are gearing up to declaring martial law or massacre U.S. citizens.

[merh]

52. There are bases in Louisiana & Mississippi that have been set up

for the "urban" training that you allude would be the purpose of the training of these marines. They use it all time, why Toledo?

[BoomerSoonerOKU]

54. Probably because

these guys are based right outside of Toledo. They are reserves so only train one weekend a month and two weeks a year. It's probably just a weekend exercise.

[merh]

55. Yes, and guys from Toledo and all over the country come to

Louisiana and Mississippi for their weekend training at the specialized "urban" warfare mock training camps that your tax dollars and mine have paid for.

[BoomerSoonerOKU]

56. So they

fly them down on Saturday and fly them back on Sunday?

[merh]

61. Just goes to show you how little you know.

No, they require that they be at a particular base by a certain time on a particular day (usually Friday evening they have to report to the base). Sometimes they fly them to their training sites and sometimes they just require that they be there and the reserves have to find a way to get there (a lot of them will car pool).

[BoomerSoonerOKU]

62. Just shows how rude you are...

I didn't claim to know. That was the reason for the question mark at the end of my last post.

[merh]

63. Can't stand the heat, then don't ridicule other posters for their

curiosity regarding the "whys" regarding the marines mission in Ohio, the state that just happens to be the same state that is the center of the election fraud controversy.

Explaining away our government's actions relative to the use of the military is not an easy thing to do on a forum that contains a group of folks that (a) doubt every move made by the bushco admin (b) opposed the military action in Iraq (c) know that the election was stolen (d) believe in democracy and our nation, not necessarilty her leaders.

[KerryOn]

30. It is in downtown Toledo, not suburb, n/t

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bemis12]

68. Tactfully

I'd have to suggest that this post has less sanity than most.

[TexasChick]

71. Umm, well, thanks, allmighty! I'll take that remark with a grain of salt.

Now, I'll go cry in my effin' corner because that hurt me so much and that remark has just crippled me with its intellectually thought out sarcasm by the bum who emitted it from his rotten mouth.

[AngryOldDem]

81. Or...it could just be routine training

A military reserve unit did this in Dayton (200 miles south of Toledo) last summer. There was a vacant school surrounded by open land that was well-suited for the exercises they were doing. They spent the better part of a weekend, I think, there.

I really don't think Toledo or Ohio, for that matter, is in any danger of being under martial or any other kind of law.

[KaliTracy]

64. I'm from the Toledo area... my Mom lives there now... I don't ever

remember anything like that - (more likely down here in Cincinnati way with Wright Patterson and such....) ?? I'll send this to her and ask her if she knows anything...

[Beyond]

3. This is nuts....

...and has a very bad "smell" to it.

[SammyWinstonJack]

41. Pretty much like the last four years . n/t

[Alizaryn]

4. At least it is not on the 3rd.

[jimshoes]

5. Tin soldiers and

Nixon's coming,... If you were told to shoot at your fellow citizens, would you do it? Just a rhetorical question.

[Vinnie From Indy]

6. Neil Young......Line ONE!

Four Dead on O Hi O!

We need some more modern protest songs on the air. Instead we get Toby Keith wantin' to put his boot up people's asses.

[nashville_brook]

11. American Idiot --

Green Day

Ex-Americans -- Ike Reilly

[hootinholler]

27. I want someone to do a twised tune cover of the Bangles

Walk like an Egyptian...

As March like a Ukrainian.

-Hoot

[Patchuli]

49. Steve Earle

The Revolution Starts Now is the cd of the year and will fit the
bill nicely!

[Mistress Quickly]

7. They did in Macon GA a few years ago.

Military exercises.

[Doctor O]

9. Why would it be Strange? Duh, Let me see!!!!!!!!!!

The unit is stationed in Perrysburg, OH, a suburb of Toledo.
The unit does training on weekends. Its a reserve unit.
They are doing urban warfare training.


What The F* is strange?

Paranoia runs rampant again.

[nashville_brook]

13. well, that's exactly the kind of info that is useful

thankyou for that.

but i wouldn't blame the paranoid for their paranoia in these times. if you're not paranoid, you're not paying attention.

[TrustingDog]

17. I always expect the worst from those creatures of the dark...

anything less is a pleasant surprise.

[Zhade]

76. Maybe a little, but think of it this way...

They stole the election in 2000 and likely did so again this year.

They lied us into an illegal war against a country that did not even THREATEN to attack us, wherein up to 100,000 innocent Iraqis have been killed for having the bad luck of being Iraqi.

They've allowed, cordoned, and PROMOTED the use of torture.

They have committed treason and high crimes against this country's and the world's citizens.

Maybe some "paranoia" is warranted, eh?

[catnhatnh]

85. Why is it strange.....

....Hmmm....lets see.In '72 when we did that kind of training on post,though at the time it was a simulation of villages with thatched huts.We'd walk through line abreast and fire up every freakin' thing that moved including pop up targets of women and children....Which was something the Base Commander very much wanted to keep from the public purview....Otherwise there were perfectly suitable sites available in the delta country of several US states...See, even in these backwaters John Q Public might have shown displeasure with soldiers indiscrimenantly killing EVERY LIVING THING,so we kept this to ourselves....BUT if you were trying to impress on people your meme of "fighting terrorism" while subtly squelching thoughts of dissent this trick is the balls! Since you can't really climb over abandoned vehicles and debris in the streets and every door breach entry is apt to be met with heart attacks and legal suits,it ain't much real good as training but can be used to make CERTAIN points...

[roenyc]

90. well you wonder why the paranoia?

during the RNC in NYC more then 1000 PEACEFUL protesters where arrested. plain cops road their scooters into the crowd. over and over again into a woman as she tried to back away he kept riding that scooter into her.

i saw the video tape on NY 1, it was on my TV and on their web site. i didn't save it. big mistake. it was gone within hours. because when a man came to that womans rescue and hit that cop they needed that tape for his defense. oh did i mention they were not in uniform?

of course this was just the poor peoples march and you know them. they just like to beat up cops. right.

What went on during the RNC was despicable. so that is number 1.

what goes on at all demonstrations. rubber bullets? wtf?

it doesn't matter if the demonstration is peaceful anymore - the cops still fire rubber bullets. yeah no one dies like at Kent state, yet!

OK so now all of a sudden this is going to take place on Jan 7th. hmm, guess its because when no senator stands up on Jan 6th they are worried that the minorities (you know how they are) are going to riot. and god i wish they would. so they want to have the guard there to "control" things. cause you know shrub has to have control.

hey they might just go into the voting places and steal the voting machines. (that would be a good thing). or kick Blackwells ass. who knows.

so yeah i would say that state needs some Marshall law yup thats it.

[Dr.Phool]

14. Inauguration in 3 weeks

Lots of protests expected. Training for urban warfare.

Naaahhhh, nothing to worry about.

[Doctor O]

15. Urban warfare training and Riot Control are diffferent trainings.

[TrustingDog]

18. what diff does that make if the uniforms are the same? n/t

[redacted]

22. Come On! Anybody who thinks this is "normal" is as crazy as the Bushies

[Kansas Wyatt]

19. Did anyone get any strange reactions from freepers....

Before the election?

I always asked them when Shrub was going to declare martial law, and they would bug-out and ignore me for awhile.

[mordarlar]

21. I live pretty close to there. It is not an overly large city....

There are a large number of empty areas there. It is not really as strange as it seems.

[KnowerOfLogic]

24. It's probably to whip up 'patriotism' and squelch any possible unrest

over the bogus ohio election, by equating those who want to unseat bush with being against our fine upstanding men and women in uniform.

[Al-CIAda]

28. Its happening all over-

NEW ORLEANS (Dec. 6, 2004) -- The Marines and sailors of the 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit may not have sailed down the Mississippi River to keep British traders out of New Orleans like the Continental Marines of 1778, but they made their presence known in the Crescent City Dec. 4 as troops and aircraft arrived for the unit's Training in an Urban Environment Exercise.

During TRUEX, the 26th MEU will hone its war fighting skills in a realistic and unfamiliar urban environment during several situational training exercises throughout New Orleans.

The MEU commander Col. Thomas F. Qualls stressed that this exercise is an
essential portion of the MEU's pre-deployment training program. It provides the MEU
the opportunity to fully integrate and evaluate its complex capabilities that are required for urban warfare.

"This is the one particular exercise that we hope to bring everything together that focuses primarily on the Maritime Special Purpose Force and their ability to do surgical-type operations," said Qualls, "much like those we would expect to encounter in the Iraqi and Central Command areas of operation."

The elements of the MEU that are participating in the training are the Command Element, Forward Command Element, Marine Medium Helicopter Squadron-162, MEU Service Support Group-26 and the Maritime Special Purpose Force (MSPF).

The MSPF is a force that provides precision action when circumstances preclude an all-out assault by more conventional infantry methods.

The Marines are operating from Joint Reserve Base New Orleans in Belle Chase. New Orleans was chosen because it has a large, dynamic infrastructure and numerous commercial and industrial areas........

http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/ac95bc775efc34c685256ab50049d458/40712f24e9ec807385256f630006cd5a?OpenDocument

[sunnystarr]

34. And I thought I lived long enough to see it all lol

I have to wonder why using a city anywhere is necessary when our police departments all over the country train in designated training areas that have simulated buildings with simulated situations.

Do our cities now belong to the military? I can't believe that the military doesn't have training areas like our police departments. Something sure is very wrong with this. I can't believe anyone would think this was normal.

[ConstitutionGuy]

75. This is one of the most inane responses I've read on these boards

Police training to deal with a couple of entrenched bank robbers or a couple of hundred protesters is nothing compared to door-to-door, rooftop-to-rooftop fighting with well intrenched insurgents possessing large caches of automatic weapons and occupying the better part of most of the city.

[fooj]

38. WTF???

We need to get this out...this is absolutely unbelievable!!! Those SOB's are out of control!!!!


WHAT ARE THEY HIDING???:think:

[The Judged]

39. Politically deny 57,000,000 + & perfect urban warfare = popular support?

[Al-CIAda]

77. Police State U$A

Alex Jones' Newest Documentary



http://www.prisonplanet.tv/articles/december2004/021204martiallaw.htm

In the early years of the 21st century, terrorism was used by governments across the world as a pretext to scare their populations into submission. Life became a surveillance grid nightmare, with every individual's actions ruthlessly catalogued and recorded by the state.
----


Do you know where your FEMA camp is?

[The Judged]

82. What convinced the military of the immediate need for urban warfare?

[anamandujano]

43. "The only request we would have of folks,

if they happen to be near where an exercise is taking place, is to stay away as much as possible," Major Cramer said.

Hope nobody gets shot.

[HeeBGBz]

66. I'd be all up in the middle of it.

If I couldn't, I'd be taking shitloads of pictures.

[shiina]

44. They've been doing it for a long time....

Operation Urban Warrior, Okland, 1999 :

"MISSION STATEMENT: To support the national military strategy of preparing for the threats of a new century and a changing enemy. To enhance domestic national security. To conduct and refine disaster relief and humanitarian assistance operations for use in the United States and abroad. To conduct urban combat operations and ready Marines for the likelihood that battles in the 21st Century will be focused in the world's rapidly expanding urban areas."

(http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/urbanwarrior/)

It's damn friggin' scary, but it's not new.

[mikelewis]

45. Relax, this is a normal exercise... creepy but normal

The people in our military are not going to go around blowing Americans away. This is simply a mind-fuck exercise to keep the paranoids sounding paranoid. They actually do recieve valuable experience from this training and if you read the following article you will see what I mean. I do agree that it is a little creepy but you must believe our soldiers are not at all prepared to start a war on civilians, just yet. Regardless of how unjust the Iraq war is, they really are concentrating on winning. Quit worrying. George Bush has more on his plate right now than fucking around with a few hundred demonstrators in Toledo, Oh. So chill out. He does have a lot of power and influence but it is in no way absolute. We will take this bull down, he will fight but not with our soldiers.



http://www.groups.sfahq.com/7th/train__new_york_city.htm
7th Special Forces Group (ABN)
NEW YORK Army News Service by Paul Morando

April 24, 2001
Special Forces train in New York City


In an effort to tactically train in one of the world's largest cities, soldiers from the U.S. Army's 7th Special Forces Group (Airborne) came this month to Fort Hamilton, located in Brooklyn, N.Y.

Military Police soldiers from Fort Hamilton took part in the training as role-players in the urban-environment exercise, which is standard training for the Special Forces troops based at Ft. Bragg, N.C.

The training mission at Fort Hamilton was two-fold: to reinforce training in Special Forces Advanced Urban Combat by using a realistic metropolitan environment and to provide the MPs of Fort Hamilton an authentic look into the world of urban warfare.

"Fort Hamilton is providing a special training venue for us and its very rare to find people to support this type of training," said a soldier from the 7th SFG.

The 7th SFG usually works with constructed MOUT sites for Military Operations in Urban Terrain, but the soldiers said they appreciated the opportunity to train in a realistic setting.

"It's a higher level for us to come out and hone our skills in the real world instead at a controlled training site," said a 7th SFG soldier. "We draw our people from all over the United States and working in an urban environment allows us to deal with the cultural and linguistic diversity as well as the urban terrain."

The difficulty of working in an urban environment, is figuring out who the enemy is and keeping an eye out for civilians and non-combatants, according to a spokesman for the 7th Special Forces unit,

The exercise began with a meeting of the soldiers on the roof of a high-rise where they geared up and loaded their weapons. For practical and operational purposes, Special Forces units use M-4 carbines, which are shorter, stronger versions of the M16/A2 rifle. The M-4s are modified with "Simunition" kits to fire 9mm paint bullets providing realism during training. Team members and role-players wear goggles during the whole exercise for safety.

Positioned on the roof, the 7th SFG unit 'stacked up' and slowly made their way down to the apartment where the criminals were hiding out.

The main objective was to take down the assailants in any way possible with minimal damage and loss of life. The seven soldiers charged through the door where tense fighting took place and successfully completed their mission.

Sgt. Tim Morgan, a Fort Hamilton MP, said the Special Forces team worked fast in bringing him and his fellow role-players down. "I got a good insight on how a mission like this is carried out," Morgan said. "They knew where the targets were-who's to the left and right. It was definitely good training for us."

"Fort Hamilton has everything you need for an urban theatre," said a soldier from the Special Forces team. "A city environment is hard to recreate and most Army posts cannot provide such a training site."

The 7th SFG is one of seven Special Forces groups -- five active-duty and two National Guard units. Each group is regionally oriented and culturally attuned, officials said. They added that on any given day, it's possible for 800 Special Forces soldiers to deploy into approximately 40 different countries around the world conducting unconventional operations in support of American security.

[Chimpanzee]

50. Is training at Ft. hamilton the same as in the streets of downtown Brklyn?

[musette_sf]

58. I'd like to see how long they'd last in Downtown Bklyn

with their little paintballs. I think there are ruffer tuffer people down on Fulton Street.

[roenyc]

92. if they really want training they should

go to the south bronx at around 2 am. all the gunfire they want. fit right in!

[roenyc]

91. good point

ft. hamilton is surrounded by water and trees. lovely really. lol

[musette_sf]

95. do I sense another

Cannonball Park hanger-outer?

[sunnystarr]

51. Fort Hamilton is a military base.

How does that compare to say having their exercises in Manhattan?

[lonestarnot]

93. Not NORMAL!

NOT NORMAL AT ALL!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

48. It's nothing. Just sounds like they're training for martial law,

that's all.

Come to think of it, one more thing....motus operandi...there might be some sort of terrorist attack nearby. That has been known to happen while "training" exercises are being held.

[musette_sf]

57. You mean like some time around 9/11/01? (eom)

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

60. You're very perceptive. :)

[LiberalHeart]

65. I live in Toledo & this is what I wonder.....

Why isn't the local broadcast media warning Toledoans why they will soon be hearing gunfire (albeit blanks) in the downtown area? The only thing I have seen about this event -- and I watch news on three local stations -- is in a story posted elsewhere (from a source not in Toledo) and the story here. A local official claims this sort of training has been conducted here before, but I have lived in Toledo all my life and never heard of it happening before.

Our downtown is not exactly a thriving metropolitan center, but it's no ghost town either. There will be business people on the street during this exercise and I'd love to know how much info they'll have about it ahead of time. It's also an area that folks on the east side of Toledo must pass thru to get to the rest of Toledo unless they travel via the expressway. I don't think it's a good idea to have them driving into a mini-war without warning, or knowing what it is that's going on.

The only simulated stuff I recall going on here is EMT type stuff, responding to fake emergency situations.

On edit: The local paper did publish this info (the link is in the original post). It's just the broadcast media I'm faulting.

[The Judged]

84. Warnings dispel fears & fears are the preferred response FEAR FEAR FEAR!

[madison2000]

67. Blackwell doesn't live in Toledo, does he?

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[BernieBear]

69. They want people to get used to seeing combat in our cities

Happy 2005.

[Lerkfish]

70. 9/11 occurred during scheduled "training excercises".

draw your own conclusions. What better way to completely control evidence than to have the military in control of the environment.

My suggestion: anyone living in Toledo arranged a holiday elsewhere for that day.

MIHOP

[Rose Siding]

72. Who "granted permission" for this?

snip>
Jean Atkin, administrator for the Lucas County Common Pleas Court, said the unit was granted permission to use the courthouse grounds. The unit, though, won't use the interior of the courthouse.
...................

I checked Posse Comitatus, but that only involves restrictions on the military for law enforcement, not use of "use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid, surveillance, etc." -I guess that includes public streets/facilities :shrug:

"POSSE COMITATUS ACT" (18 USC 1385): A Reconstruction Era criminal law proscribing use of Army (later, Air Force) to "execute the laws" except where expressly authorized by Constitution or Congress. Limit on use of military for civilian law enforcement also applies to Navy by regulation. Dec '81 additional laws were enacted (codified 10 USC 371-78) clarifying permissible military assistance to civilian law enforcement agencies--including the Coast Guard--especially in combating drug smuggling into the United States. Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid, surveillance, etc.) while generally prohibiting direct participation of DoD personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and arrests). For example, Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detachments (LEDETS) serve aboard Navy vessels and perform the actual boardings of interdicted suspect drug smuggling vessels and, if needed, arrest their crews). Positive results have been realized especially from Navy ship/aircraft involvement.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/comrel/factfile/Factcards/PosseComitatus.html

I don't ever remember reading about this kind of thing before. US cities are very different than those in Iraq, from all the pix and video I've seen- The terrain is different, as are the buildings, the weather, the communications systems...what am I forgetting? Aren't military bases more similar?

Yesterday, the Army said oh they had nooo idea they'd be facing an insurgent population in Iraq and that's why they didn't arm more Humvees. The two branches wouldn't like the comparison, but this seems to be a similar case of overlooking basic needs for preparedness.

[ConstitutionGuy]

73. Really not that unusual

Just seems that way because communities around reserve units aren't used to seeing this kind of pre-deployment training and activity. Areas near large active duty bases see all kinds of activity all the time. A couple of years ago we had a 10,000+ marine amphibious landing exercise right here on the beaches of Northwest Florida. They stormed ashore and literally took control of the local roads, highways, etc. This went on for a week.

We have only one north-south highway through our county that frequently gets shut down for hours at a time while the Air Force conducts hazardous operations near by...people just sit in their cars and wait for the road block to be lifted.

AC-130 gunships, equipped with 150mm howitzers, 40mm cannons, and 20mm gatlin guns, circle at a few thousand feet high and a couple of miles from my house pounding targets on the ground until midnight every night.

This is nothing new guys. This type of stuff has been going on in and around active duty communities for years.

Anyone who knows anything about ground combat (the stuff the Army and Marine grunts do) knows that urban warfare is the single most difficult and deadly form of fighting they engage in. And yes there are urban simulators where small squads can get a taste of the environment but if you're going to train a unit as big as this, which includes not just building-to-building, door-to-door fighting by dismounted troops but also traffic control, coordination of vehicle movements, communications (very difficult in a large urban area congested with buildings and other impediments to radio operations), etc, then you need the real thing.



What ever your opinion of the war, at least grant that the people that are going should be as well prepared and well equipped as absolutely possible. Remember that most of the guys in this reserve outfit are light years behind their active duty counterparts in terms of preparedness, training, conditioning, etc and this is probabably the most expeditious and effective way they can spin up for the mission.

[mordarlar]

74. I agree i think this is nothing to stress over.

[lonestarnot]

94. IS UNUSUAL! VERY UNUSUAL!

I was in the military. I don't recall the use of a city in which to conduct urban warfare training ever!

[RaulVB]

78. Don't you know it?

Toledo, Ohio, "looks a lot like Fallujah"...:wtf:

[MileHiStealth]

79. My huge concern is ....

some nutcase dressing up like
one of the reserve troops and
joining the exercise with real
ammo. Things would go insane
quickly ...

[Lerkfish]

80. no, my concern is some nutcase RUNNING the troops...

not impersonating.

[The Judged]

86. Ah! PsyOps military exercises used to instill fear in the general public!

So they won't become "dissidents!"

And so the military is ready in the event that they do!

[Lostnote03]

87. UnnnnFricknnnn Believable!!!!!!!

.............I wonder if MODERATE Christians can derive any symbolic relevance in this action........

[EuroObserver]

88. Hmm, I'm not sure I should have been reading

this thread, as a brit furriner <g>.

Lots of our guys got in plenty of, quite live, training in urban (developed world) warfare (or should that read _policing_) in northern Ireland - sometimes maybe useful, I guess, but, all the same,

very worrying.