what are we (this forum)gonna do after Jan 20th? We need to stick together

[New Earth]

The majority of us in this forum have become quite close, as close as can be on an online forum.....i'm just wondering, what are we all gonna do when this is all over, at least, when the 2004 election is 'officially' over?

Do you think we should petition for a "DU Group" forum (at that time), so those who always posted in this forum have a place to stick together? We have been thru so much together, I can't imagine what it will be like without you :cry:

I mean, the Lounge is fun, but it's just not the same people, and we 'tin foil' peeps have become so accustomed to eachother that us just melding into the Lounge will not be the same. What do you guys think? We need to have a back up plan ahead of time so we are prepared :hi: :grouphug:

[FXDS]

1. think 2006 n/t

[New Earth]

3. fuck 2006

not the same. pffffffffffffffffffffffft

[politicasista]

5. LOL!

[Karenca]

2. I think we should just keep this

forum going like it is.:grouphug:

[New Earth]

4. the only problem i see with this forum

is that mods don't allow us to go much off topic. i mean, i would rather sit here and tell THIS forum how my day went, or what i'm eating for dinner, rather than people in the Lounge that i don't know :shrug:

[pacalo]

10. Maybe the moderators can eliminate the word "results" from the title

& simply call this forum "2004 Election". Discussion about the stolen election will be relevant for the next four years.

[stillcool]

8. Me Too...

I'm a newbie since DD-Day...and you all have helped me out immensely. I don't feel like its time to move on anywhere, but stay centered at least in one area of my life. Things evolve here, why force dispersion?

[IndyPriest]

6. Whether Kerry in to the WH or not, there will be LOTS to do

So, my vote is we stay right here!:toast:

[intheflow]

7. Do you really think Election 2004 will be over 1/20?

Faye, the fight will just be beginning! We'll be working on litigation in Ohio for forever.

We could morph this forum into a hugely powerful voting reform machine. I kinda like that thought. Fairly unfreepable topic (though they never cease to amaze me with their vicious denial).

:hug:

C'mon, sing with me:

We go together like ramma lamma lamma ka dinga da dinga dong
Remembered forever as shoo-bop sha whada whadda yippidy boom da boom
Chang chang changity chang shoo bop that's the way it should be
Waooo Yeah

We're one of a kind like dip da dip da dip do whap de dobby do
Our names are signed like boogy boogy boogy boogy shooby shoo wap shoo wap
Chang chang changity chang shoo bop we'll always be like one
Wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-one

[New Earth]

9. I vow to stay in tihs forum

as long as mods vow to let us go off topic

[bones_7672]

78. On 1/6 the congressional Dems will turn their back on the '04 election

[No Exit]

11. I'm only a newbie, but I for one

will keep reading every day about the latest advances in the Election Fraud story, b/c that is THE story that I am following in the news, and I'm something of a news junkie.

I expect that there will be continued strides forward in the investigation and in the lawsuits. I will be watching. I will be waiting for the day--whether it's before or after Jan. 20--when at last the truth breaks into the public consciousness. After that day, George W. Bush will be toast (figuratively speaking) because after that day, even his cultists won't be able to blindly follow him.

That day WILL come.

[Turn CO Blue]

25. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[No Exit]

30. Happy New Year, and thank you!

And may Bush/Cheney go the way of Nixon! Soon!

[SharonRB]

39. I totally agree, No Exit

This is your second post I've read and I agree with you once again. I've only been here since a couple of weeks after the election, but it's easy to get hooked.

[No Exit]

62. Thanks! And another thing!

I'M NOT GONNA VOTE ON ANY TOUCH-SCREEN BLACK-BOX COMPUTER VOTING MACHINE!

On Nov. 2, our precinct had ballots that you fill in the little circles with a pen. Then you'd hand the ballot to the little old lady, and she would feed it into the (gulp!) computer-scanner thing.

Okay, I realize that that is computerized. But AT LEAST we didn't have to have that experience of touching the screen for Kerry, but having it "accidentally" register Bush, and have to call the precinct people over to help us get the vote to read correctly. I know if that had happened to me, I would have gone away plagued by doubts that my vote for Kerry would have even existed.

I am one of those who actually wants to see this thing pursued in the hope of getting Kerry into the White House... barring that possibility, I would settle for its getting Bush out of the White House... if that's not possible, I'd have to settle for the majority of Americans, even the politically-comatose, knowing darn well that BUSH IS NOT OUR ELECTED LEADER.

But I have to also agree with those who say "never mind Kerry for now, let's just be sure we are able to vote!" That in itself is certainly reason to keep on!

[SharonRB]

63. Once again, I agree with everything you say here

Where I vote, we have the ballots that you connect the arrows with a marker and then the ballot goes into a machine and they get counted. I've always felt confident that our votes get counted properly (prior to having these, we had the old fashioned pull machines with the curtains). If we ever switch to touch-screen in Michigan, I'll do absentee if I have to.

I also want to 1) get Kerry into the White House on Jan. 20, 2005, or 2) somehow get Bush out at a later date, however, exposing the problems to the general public and effecting major changes in the process are of the utmost importance as well. We need a uniform process for national elections and whatever this process is, it needs to have a paper trail and need to be as untamperable as possible. I think the easier, the better. Either all mail-in like they do in Oregon or paper ballot and a writing instrument -- check-off your candidate and have the votes counted by hand. Sometimes the KISS principle is the best -- Keep It Simple, Stupid! -- and the least expensive.

[No Exit]

66. Yes, and the politicians shouldn't be allowed to get away

with telling us, "Oh, mistakes happen in any system..."

As some people have said, if they say "mistakes happen", we should reply, "oh, really--I guess, then, if I often pay about $10.00 less than is due on each of my bills, then it doesn't really matter much, does it?" I mean, mistakes happen in any system, right? What's $10.00 here or there, now and then? Let's see that many mistakes happen in people's payments to Chevron, and see if the powers-that-be are STILL as willing to "forgive a few errors". Ha--that would be a horse of a different color. Their money (every cent of it) is FAR more important to them than are our votes.

[bush_is_wacko]

71. Ask them if the IRs would be willing to overlook that many mistakes on our

tax returns.

[No Exit]

72. Yeah! "Oops, sorry, that decimal point should've been

wayyy over to the right!"

"Interest? Penalities?! What??"

[bunny planet]

69. Yes, Welcome to DU

[No Exit]

73. Thank you! Here's to a Happy New Year, and a regime change!

I'm glad I found my way onto this site!

[Raksha]

74. Election fraud is THE story for me too.

In fact, this forum is the reason I've focused on DU rather than some other liberal website since the election. I've been convinced that the election was stolen ever since the wee small hours of November 3, 2004. After that I shopped around for a while at several other discussion boards, but this was the only one where I found a group of people who were really passionate about it and who seem to realize how absolutely crucial fair and transparent elections are to the democratic process. To me it seems self-evident, but even most other liberals don't seem to want to discuss it.

So I suggest we change the name of the forum to "2004 Election Results and Impeachment Process" after January 20th and keep it the way it is...unless of course Kerry is inaugurated on January 20th! Then we can change it to "2004 Election Results and BFEE Prosecution" and keep it the way it is!

[Left coast liberal]

12. I'm staying right here.

Surely the mods will keep this going, change the title or something. You guys know more how this works than I do.

This has been a source of incredable solace and strength for me and I'm not going to let it go. And, I don't sound like the only one.

Faye, go off topic all you want. I love it.

You are my people.

Cheers!

:hi:

[RadicalMom]

13. I'm still fairly new, but read and post in most forums. They are

great groups, too. Why not just consider having the forum renamed, along the lines of "We're watching them," or something you think works better for your new focus?

[KaliTracy]

14. how about a forum for "tin foil peeps" j/k

[googly]

24. LMAO n/t

[Amaryllis]

15. It won't be over Jan. 20. No matter what happens there will be plenty of

work to do on this and future elections. The GAO investigation is coming up. We have to keep them honest. We need election reform. W have to deal with the e-voting and tabulating issue in 2006. We keep this forum.

[jdog]

16. Oh NO!

Do you mean to tell me I'd have to do without you guys? PLEASE say it isn't so!

[roenyc]

17. the king may be crowned

but the fraud investigation will still go on! so, we will need this forum to stay in touch with the fraud updates and letter writing stuff. right?

makes sense. there ya go! i like it in here. its neat and compact. :bounce:

so the name can be changed to Watergate 05. or votergate 05. something like that. lots to do. this is not over. i like floodgates 05 cause there is also the 9/11 investigation that is in the hands of Eliot spitzer and lets not forget Abu Garaib. many haven't.

[marions ghost]

43. We have Focus and Purpose...

How I see the goal: To confront the lurking "Votergate" monster NOW--even as B**hco proceeds to execute it's relentless "mandate." Nothing else seems logical.

Group solidarity like this leads to validation of concerns and action. After being here a few weeks I'm not at all worried about groupthink--there are too many independent thinkers here. But we can do infinitely more by sharing resources than by plodding along alone. As others seem to feel--there is a lot more research, correspondence, vigilance, brainstorming, action, and group support necessary on these issues--at least 4 years worth, and more. Gotta create and support new media in addition to direct political action. Gonna be hard work. Bringing Democracy to America.

How I see us:
A natural affinity group, without limitations of geography and other barriers. The Coalition of the Stubborn. Unable to buy the lies, drink the kool-aid, or lie in the poppy field anymore. Unable to just "get over" the biggest insult to Democracy in our lifetime. It just hurts TOO much. We are most likely instinctive fighters who yell and retaliate rather than suffering silently with pain.

Most likely also we tend to be synthesizers, expansive thinkers who can also handle details. If I had to give everyone here a battery of psychological tests, we'd come out as a combination of completely insane and incredibly sane. These times can make anyone crazy, and it might be more prudent to walk away. But somebody has to IMAGINE the worst right now. We have the ability to bridge the gap. Not everyone can do that. I feel I do this for my friends and family who can't spare the time or energy (or tolerate crazyness) but are in support.

Call it Election Discussion or Election Reform. Whatever--as long as we can stay connected. Thanks Faye, for putting the need for this forum upfront as we get on the rollercoaster leading up to Jan 6.

[roenyc]

46. I think that is the key

we have to keep our thoughts on election fraud solid. there was fraud. its true. thats it. there was discrimination - thats it. its true.

we know these things to be true. and while we are independent thinkers we all agree on these two points.

what we dont know is who perpetrated the fraud and how we are going to prove the fraud.

we also need to keep the issue alive. alive among us and among others.

[troubleinwinter]

18. We will still have projects and issues here in this forum after 1/20

If the DU Admins try to close us, we'll just have to take to the streets and protest!!!

[crispini]

A move into "Voting Issues" might be appropriate?

Why not post in ATA and ask the head honchos what they're thinking, eh?

[troubleinwinter]

23. I don't see why not keep the same title?

[crispini]

19. delete, dupe

[sepia_steel]

20. There will be a lot more to discuss.

I don't think this forum would be going anywhere; so much of this election 'stuff' has only just begun.

[ClassWarrior]

21. Stick together we must.

I second crisp's idea of shifting the focus to Voting Issues. Wait - make that Voting FAIRNESS.

(Cuz Lakoff reminds us it's about values, not issues.)

NGU.

[googly]

22. Get rid of repug-lite!!!!

[Patsy Stone]

26. Thinking about that myself this morning

After a while, the 2004 Election Results and Discussion forum is moot.
What's gonna happen?

Happy New Year, all! :toast: :party:

I like you guys, where are we gonna go?

[Patsy Stone]

27. And p.s.

You are all welcome to join crispini and me in our "We Love Keef!" thread whenever and wherever it goes.

:)

[crispini]

29. LOL, Pats! n/t

[gkhouston]

31. I'm not sure I want to go some of the places your "Keef" threads go ;-)

but then I'm still smoochy in love with my husband, which puts me at something of a disadvantage as a KO admirer. I'll give him props, though, for being a member of the endangered species of "news anchor capable of understanding the words coming out of his mouth".

And I still haven't seen anything on CNN about Conyers' letters to the senators, fancy that. They're sure to let us know about the hangover concierge service in New Orleans, though. As if hangover service in New Orleans is something that is only needed on New Year's Day???

I usually don't see your Countdown threads until the next day (we tape the early showing and watch it after the little one is in bed) but I get a kick out of reading them. I'll happily follow your floaties wherever the DU admins land us.

Gina

[Patsy Stone]

32. You are welcome anytime

While I, too, love my husband, he knows better than to mess with my celebrity crushes (Jon Stewart, Johnny Depp, anyone?). Also, I think he's still likes him himself since the days of ESPN. After 20 years, nothing I do surprises my husband.

The media is sick and needs help badly.

:)

edited to include Johnny Depp -- never a waste of time to do that, IMHO.

[Miami Liberal]

40. Oh yeah, Johnny Depp and Jon Stewart

are sizzling! Good taste Pats. I'm a single gal so I don't have to feel guilty about my floaty hearts for Keef. ;)

[north houston dem]

28. wherever and under whatever name

I'll still be lurking around!:D

I don't know if I could take any more upheaval.......... :scared:

[MellowOne]

33. I agree with those who say the fight has just begun

If we can keep fighting for truth and exposing the corruption, we should have lots to talk about.

[Patsy Stone]

34. Maybe

We can rename it the: "Fighting for Truth, Justice and the American Way Forum?"

[Firespirit]

35. If this forum is locked up...

I'll be spending most of my time in Voting Issues. This is my #1 cause now.

But I really think that it should be renamed to "Election Reform," since that's what it's become, and kept open. There is a lot of material in here that I would hate to see get lost.

[Patsy Stone]

36. Excellent!

My goal is Election Reform also. Once I get answers to 2004, I'm putting all of my energy towards free, fair and non-partisan controlled elections.

Truly my New Year's Resolution for 2005.

You, GO!

[mopinko]

37. let's just change the name to

[elizm]

38. Where ever you go....

PLEASE DON'T LEAVE ME OUT! I might go bonkers...:crazy:

I think Election Reform is good, too. After all, that is what it's about.

[Patsy Stone]

41. "Wherever you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai n/t

[Patsy Stone]

58. Strike that, reverse it... No matter where you go, there you are. n/t

[understandinglife]

42. Depends.

If, on 6 Jan 2005, a successful challenge to at least the OH electors is launched we will have a constitutional crisis.

If, on 6 Jan 2005, a successful challenge to electors from several states (imho, the more likely situation) is launched we will have a constitutional crisis.

If, on 6 Jan 2005, Congressman Conyers does not receive the support from a large number of Senators and members of the HR, we will have a constitutional crisis.

In other words, I suggest renaming the forum "Constitutional Crisis" at 0001 EST 6 Jan 2005.

We are not going to be able to walk away from this catastrophe; we will either be embroiled in extensive nation-wide debate as to how to proceed to re-vote or we are going to be embroiled in the reality that our elected representatives acquiesced on 6 Jan 2005 to aiding and abetting crimes against our fellow citizens.

This one ain't going away.

And, while "2006," "2008," "election reform" etc are all worthy issues, they are dead on arrival if we don't face, immediately and persistently, what happens starting at 1pm EST on 6 Jan 2005.

My opinion is that since 3 Nov 2004, many of those showing dedication, analytical brilliance, investigative skills, activist passion, infrastructure building, and camaraderie in this forum, have really been 'warming up'; 'training'; getting ready to rock.

Show time is 1pm EST 6 Jan 2005 -- and it is not a 2 hour, 2 act show no matter how much some folk want to pretend otherwise.

Peace.

"Its about American -- final gasp or resurgence: your choice"

[troubleinwinter]

49. There may be more issues than Election Reform and Constitutional Crisis...

I suspect Conyers may well pursue Rove as having violated the Hatch Act for campaign activities (he wrote the Special Counsel 10/2004 accusing Condi of violating it, and called for her to be removed from her post).

I would not be surprised if he calls for a Special Prosecutor relating to election fraud 2004 (he called for investigation into Rove's involvement into the Plame case, which brought Fitzgerald on board).

I think Conyers is nowhere near done with this.

ISSUES relating to the 2004 election will be on-going for some time I believe, and lots to keep us busy here.

[marions ghost]

52. excellent post

you really put it well, understandinglife. We have been "warming up" to face the implications of Jan 6--yep, I concur.
------------
So maybe this is bigger than just "Election Reform" --which does lack the full scope of the massive overhaul that is needed. It implies there's just some tinkering to do...

Wider concepts:
"Free and Fair Elections" might work. Some other more abstract suggestions here in this thread: "United We Stand" and "Truth, Justice and the American Way," which conjures up the noble image of Superman saving Democracy...

You suggested "Constitutional Crisis" which is also a more comprehensive term. "Crisis" is certainly not overkill at this point.

Not that it matters a whole lot what it's called, but interesting to ponder the nature of this fledgling movement. We are holding the tail of the Elephant...but can't see the whole animal yet.

[suffragette]

44. reason I joined this forum

This group is the reason I found and joined this forum. Although still new here, please count me in on sticking together with you in whatever move the new year brings.

[Chimpanzee]

45. I ain't goin' nowhere!

Just change the name of the forum to 'United we Stand' and keep keepin' on!

[sickinohio]

51. I don't post very often but do read everything here. I went to

Columbus a couple times and protested, went to both Cleveland and Columbus to watch the witnesses of voter disenfranchisment, etc. Prior to the election I spent all my evenings afterwork and on weekends registering voters, manning the Kerry/Edwards campaign headquarters in my county, phonebanking, door-to-door canvassing and basically giving my all to make sure that there would be a change of occupants in the White House come November. That didn't happen, and I do not believe Bu&h won without there having been having been "FraWd".

Anyway, my point is I love reading here and occasionally posting and would love to stay here also. I also think that the name Constitutional Crisis is an excellent suggestion.

[keepthemhonest]

47. Good idea Faye

I really had not thought about that,but we do need to have somewhere to go.We will still be talking about fraud and election reform and all that.There were several good ideas above.I guess as long as a bunch of us still keeep coming here ,they will probalby leave it but if it peter's out then maybe they will try to close it down.

i would love to be an activist in election reform so that wuld be a good transition. We cannot let these issues rest.

[Time for change]

48. As far as I'm concerned, it's not over after Jan. 20th

whether Bush is inaugurated or not. A lot of people think that it's going to take longer than that to bring out the best evidence. In any event, stopping the election fraud is a major priority regardless of who is inaugurated on the 20th. So I think we need to keep on going with this forum.

[troubleinwinter]

50. Yep, me too!

[Nothing Without Hope]

53. Whatever happens Jan 6 and Jan 20, this is a long haul

and we absolutely MUST stick together here and elsewhere. Getting the information, analyzing it, and getting it where it needs to be seen to assist and stimulate investigations is going to continue to be vitally important.

This is going to be a PROCESS, not a quick victory and a walkaway. Given the current situation with the MSM, people like us have to be there to make a difference.

The truth is there, not only for racist voter suppression and election fraud but for other ugly Bush cartel scandals. We need to help get it out.

We cannot give up, no matter how heartsick events on Jan 6 and Jan 20 may make us if they don't go the way we hope for.

[marions ghost]

54. right-- keep cool Jan 6 and Jan 20

do whatever u have to do to survive w your sanity. That will mean different things for different people. But to all of us who have been paying close attention, it might feel like serious aftershocks of Nov 2-3. Let us come together around those events and support each other in looking beyond--don't underestimate the impact, but never let it stop us. Whatever happens on Jan 6 the implications are significant.


:kick: Jan 6 :kick: Jan 20 :kick: movin' on to a better day

[Nothing Without Hope]

55. I agree. Another reason why this forum is important

If I didn't have DU and a few of the blogs, I'd be hard-pressed to avoid despair, and that would be a diaster for a lot of reasons. The fact is, we are not alone and isolated, we are a force to be reckoned with, and we have the truth, the law, and people of integrity on our side.

We have to keep pushing for the facts and getting them analyzed and sent to where they need to go, whatever happens Jan 6 and 20.

And if things are not the way we hope on those two days, we at DU will need each other all the more to keep our spirits up.
:pals:

[bear425]

56. Whatever the forum evolves to, I will be there.

I think it should stay the same name, though. Happy New Year, peeps!

[floridadem30]

57. That would be a great idea. We should seek to have a new forum so the same

group can post.

[Melissa G]

59. FraWd Fighters, Rove Wranglers, * sh*t Busters....

What ever you guys name it..I am there.
Never Give Up!

[zapped 1]

60. I am staying

...after having lost my mother shortly after the election, this forum has helped keep me together. You folks rock!

[troubleinwinter]

61. I am so sorry for your loss...

and WELCOME! :pals:

[lonestarnot]

64. I am sorry also.

[seito]

68. I am so sorry for your loss

We must continue to support each other through whatever the future holds.

[lonestarnot]

65. DU ROCKS!

My pitchfork and I will be here!

[bunny planet]

67. This is the only forum on DU that I have really posted in.

Once in awhile in latest breaking news or the Kerry group.I can't imagine going to the lounge.

[bunny planet]

70. I'm sticking with youse guys.

[thingsarelookingup]

76. sticking around too

Although it's my first time to post I've been reading since before the election. I don't know what I would do without my daily fix here. I tried to give it up for one day yesterday but after getting home from the parade I couldn't help myself.


Tonight hubby was watching the news and as I walked through the room something came on about Jeb B* going to the tsunami sites with Powell. I mumbled something about the B* administration and gave the tv a 1 finger salute - then I had to come and check in here.

Reading these posts has given me better direction for my activism. And it's reassuring to know I'm in such stellar company. Much more to do and you know what they say about synergy: 1+1=3.

[genieroze]

75. This won't be over until that idiot * is out on his butt. eom

[earth mom]

77. I feel the same as everyone else does

I'm new, and lurk a lot because there is so damn much to read around DU-and maybe also because I feel a wee bit overwhelmed by it all.

But this is the forum that resonates with me the most. Because it is every issue all at once-it is the core of democracy. It is here that I can come in those moments when I've lost all hope...and have that hope renewed because of the sheer determination, energy and grit of the brave souls who post here.

I can't help but feel that if this forum is closed, then it will feel like * has "won" in a way...and that not only has he once again stolen from all of us, but ripped our hearts out as well.

Sorry if that sounds melodramatic, but I am holding on for dear life here...