Question to All, What Ya think, Did Kerry Concede because

[Up2Late]

Did Kerry Concede so quickly because of his "Skull and Bones" connections with *, or was it because of a pre-determined, "we knew they were going to cheat, so we have a plan..." strategy? :shrug:

I'm conflicted, I was confident for weeks that he had a covert plan, but these long weeks of silence have started to wear on my confidence.

Thoughts? Theories? Opinions? :think:

[New Earth]

1. if anyone believes that skull and bones bullshit

that is just fucking ridiculous in my honest opinion, no offense to you.

He just filed a motion to have potential evidence in Ohio preserved and secured :hi: Sometimes actions speak louder than words :hi:

[Visioneer]

13. Oops. Responded to the wrong post

I would like to take this time to clarify my position that the Repubdickans are all about conspiracy but it would be a plus IMHO if we could get some clarification about just how far Senator Kerry is involved in the Skull and Bones legacy. He has been silent AFAIK.

[malatesta1137]

28. wake up

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0122-10.htm

[saracat]

29. Some people just don't know anything about S and B , So they make it

whatever they want it to be. this theory is as silly as believing that the Catholic Church is a cult that will place the power of the presidency in the hands of the Pope if a Catholic is elected President. And yet there are people who were that ill informed and still are today. Take a bonesman to lunch or something before you jump to conclusions

[malatesta1137]

31. go get informed first

then respond to a post of mine.

and read this while you're at it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=222167&mesg_id=222281

[saracat]

33. I don't need to read junk posted on a web board or any of the stuff

by the conspiracy theorists. I have first hand experience. Do you know any bonesman? Thats why I said, take one to lunch. Talk to one . You might be surprised.

[malatesta1137]

59. junk on a web board?? lol look who's talking!

Another DUer living in fantasy land. If you consider published authors Amy Goodman and her guest on Democracy Now 'junk', you are sort of hopeless.

[saracat]

123. Do you personally know any S+ Bers?

I'll bet you don't. Why not try "real" sources, the people themselves?

[malatesta1137]

146. real sources?

what makes you think a member of that secret society would be telling the real truth about them, ARE YOU INSANE?

That's why I linked to Amy Goodman's interviewed of Alexandra Robbins, the New York Times bestselling author of "Secrets of the Tomb: Skull and Bones, the Ivy League, and the Hidden Paths of Power".

Alexandra Robbins went to Yale herself, was a member of another Yale secret society and she herself interviewed several Bonesmen for her book. She's a GREAT SOURCE and I agree with her:

"I don't think that the elected officials (like John Kerry) who represent our country, and especially the president, should be allowed to have an allegiance to any secret group. Secrecy overshadows democracy. We need a transparency so we can hold elected officials accountable. I don't think its coincidence that this government, which is the most secretive in America today since the Nixon era, is run by the world's most infamous secret society. That's something we want to avoid in the future."

[saracat]

148. I don't think. I KNOW. And my sanity is not in question here.

Some people read books. Great and you know what? I don't care by whom. They don't have any direct knowledge. That makes them and those that read them gossips. No primary source , no evidence to prove an anti Kerry tirade.

[malatesta1137]

149. your blind allegiance to John Kerry

is robbing you of your senses. But don't feel bad, you have tons of company here on DU.

You are either diverting the attention from the issue at hand or you simply have absolutely NO clue about secret societies and their rules.

[saracat]

150. This isn't about Kerry. It is about

some posters lack of primary sources for rumors they perpetuate!

[merh]

45. Some people just don't give up on spewing crap!

Can't wait for the day they have to eat crow! That being said, for all those that tout the skull & cross bones connection, I ask them to review history, mainly Senator Kerry's history relative to actions that negatively affected skull & cross bones folks. Ah, you may ask WTF am I talking about, well, the BCCI investigation comes to mind and is something that he pursued despite the efforts of former S&CB members.

[malatesta1137]

61. did anyone actually go to jail for Kerry's BCCI investigation?

did anyone actually go to jail for Kerry's Iran-contra exposure?

Don't give me this bullshit about 'actions that negatively affected skull & cross bones folks'.

The ones calling Skull & Bones bullshit are the ones who are actually either blind or terribly ignorant, ignorant of American history and ignorant of the politics that go behind the paths to power.

[merh]

81. No, they didn't go to jail because POPPY pardoned them

They would never have faced indictment and charges if it had not been for Kerry and Heinz. Heinz died in one of those plane accidents that seem to happen to people that the BFEE don't like.

Kerry faced opposition from the WH and took on Poppy and his clan to pursue and keep alive the BCCI.

You ought to go study some history and stop living in the fantasy land on the internet.

[malatesta1137]

103. oh another Skull & Bones member pardoned them?

how convenient, and how well coordinated.

I know more history than your brain will ever be able to retain.

[BrightKnight]

142. David Lyle Boren's Iran-Contra Intelligence Committee rulings

"David Lyle Boren (S&B 1963) was assistant to the director of the Office of Civil and Defense Mobilization, and a propaganda analyst for the U.S. Information Agency, "

"Though a Democrat (who spoke knowingly of the ``parallel government'' operating in Iran-Contra), Boren's Intelligence Committee rulings have been (not unexpectedly) more and more favorable to his ``Patriarch'' in the White House."


http://www.tarpley.net/bush7.htm

[malatesta1137]

145. thank you

[merh]

46. I know of one bonesman I would love to take to lunch.

John Kerry! God, that would be one hell of a lunch.



DU BELIEVE? I DU BELIEVE!

[LittleClarkie]

141. Oh dear

I don't think I can even post where my mind went just now. Something about hands, and feet, and what they mean... proportionately.

And bones.

Ahem.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, be thou cool, Kerrycrats, lest the Testy-ness of a certain poster make thee malcontent.

It's only Testy being testy, after all.

[merh]

143. LOL, you are so right, thank you for the slap of reality!

testy will be testy, will be testy! And, you know that Teresa is so lucky to have her bonesman!

[peacetalksforall]

92. Au contraire...if you have a secret society, an outsider has every right

to believe anything they wish about the entity.

Whoever thought that Bush Sr, North, Poindester, Elliot, Rice, Powell and a bunch of other current administration and support officials would have conducted a secret sub-government involving guns and drugs to carry out their own secret mission in the 80's? What is the extent of the Illuminati in Washington? Who would have thought Freemason formalities would be so solidly founded in Islamic beliefs and that followers hold secrets. Do attendees at the Bohemian Grove only play cards?

Secrecy reigns in kingdoms and dictatorships.

[seito]

2. O.M.G.

After careful manipulation of the delete key...

Here ya go :tinfoilhat:


I Believe

[WildEyedLiberal]

3. If you seriously entertain any sort of Skull and Bones theories

Then you're further gone than I can help. Have you not noticed all the shit going down in Ohio? Kerry's team is very much a part of the action. Just because he himself is not physically holding a press conference reassuring the DU worrywarts of his intentions doesn't mean he isn't doing anything. Crikey. It took two years to damn Nixon with Watergate, and Watergate was a piss in the cup compared to massive election fraud. You want instant gratification, but that's not how it works, especially when the cards are stacked against you. I don't care how long they have to dig, frankly, before it all comes out, because I'd rather have a protracted investigation that yields results than a vain and futile hissy fit that will be shot down in flames by the repuke powers that be.

[fearnobush]

11. Damn!!!! Thats a nice Pic!!!!

[WildEyedLiberal]

14. Thank you!

I rather like it myself. :D

[roenyc]

39. He's Hot!

[Blue_In_AK]

91. A heartfelt "right on"

[moggie12]

4. because there's no proof

At first I thought there was outright fraud but now I don't think there was. The "evidence" people have come up with is strongest in Ohio but, even there, they haven't come up with a dang thing we could bring into court. At first, I thought there was something fishy going on in Florida, but then I heard the head a pro-Dem 527 say they pulled out of Florida and concentrated their efforts in other swing states because their internal polling showed Bush too far ahead in Florida to catch. So, I guess what I'm saying is, the reason Kerry isn't challenging the results is that he simply doesn't have the grounds to do so.

[Clark2008]

7. Link?

Do you have a link to said Dem 527?

And, I don't think Florida was way far ahead for the Bushoviks. Don't know what internal poll to which you are referencing, but, then again, you again, don't provide a link.

[moggie12]

9. 527

It was said during a panel discussion on C-Span a few weeks after the election. I think it was Bill Zimmerman from MoveOn who said they pulled out of Florida (Erik Smith of the Media Fund was on the panel as well, but i think it was Zimmerman that said it). I've been looking for a transcript of the Dem-527 panel discussion but haven't found it yet (it was sponsored by the Annenburg Foundation). It's well worth your time if it ever becomes available -- the Republican 527 people were even more interesting to listen to than the Dems. Boy, did they have their "act together": Totally focused on message, etc. After listening to Dem 527 people and Republican 527 people, I realized why we lost.

[Debbie13]

41. In Miami I heard that college kids had to wait hours and hours

and hours to vote. How many do you suppose could not wait that long? If that is not election fraud, what is?

Also, I'm in Florida and people did not like Jeb. How did he ever get re-elected?

The state of Florida's election system is one sown-up and under the control of the crooks. Make no mistake on that.

[flordehinojos]

5. for the life of me, i can't understand such a quick concession but, to me

it feels like a full blown betrayal!

[marcologico]

6. He conceded because he lost. Whether he really did or not

is another question that won't be known for months, if ever.

If he hadn't, he'd have been smeared by Murdoch and Rove as a cranky cheat who thought he could win on a technicality -- losing the popular vote but winning the electoral vote -- by Al-Goring Ohio.

Do you know that hard-core GOP types (like my dad) complain that he should have conceded the night before?

[pacalo]

8. Kerry knew what he was dealing with before he entered the race.

The wheels of justice may not move fast enough for us, but the silence of the Democratic leadership speaks loudly to me. I'm proudly in the number of those who have faith in the heroic man I've come to know.

[Visioneer]

12. Skull and Bones is not bull

A truly wise man, or woman, first has to admit that they are not even close to knowing everything that goes on in this world.

It amuses me that there are tens of thousands of posts here that wildly speculate about election fraud, yet barely any that support a *well* documented fact that lays right out in the open about a secret society of which both contenders are part of.

I am all for Democratic values, but ignorance of fact just ain't right.

[pacalo]

23. So you think WhatsHisFace & Kerry are tied to the hip because

of their Skull & Bones connection. Why, then, was WhatsHisFace's campaign conducted so underhandedly & below-the-belt against his fellow Shull & Bones member? His campaign was nothing but lies -- he couldn't even recite them publicly without his face twitching.

Your contention is that Kerry was loyal to his Skull & Bones allegiance but WhatsHisFace was not -- is that right?

[saracat]

27. Clearly yet again, someone who knows nothing about fraternities.

Are you the same one who posted about how a bunch of rich drunken frat boys were going to seize world power? Do you even personally KNOW anybody in Sand B? If not STFU!

[Visioneer]

32. Try again

>>>Are you the same one who posted about how a bunch of rich drunken frat boys were going to seize world power?>>>>

No. Not me. In fact, I do not believe that *anyone* can seize world power. World power is never seized. World power is slowly garnered, methodically and carefully. Maybe you can sort of sneak up on it sideways and sidle into the deal, but you cannot seize it.

>>>Do you even personally KNOW anybody in Sand B?>>>

No. I was a 3rd level Knight (K of C) and I know damn well that it would take some serious torture to get the initiation rite details to pass by my lips even though I am sickened by the rabid, irrational, *hypocritacal* blind allegience to the anti-abortion message.

>>> If not STFU!>>>>

No. Democrats ***NEVER**** STFU. STFU'ing is more of a pansy, obedient right-wing thing. Try again. This time with feewing.

[saracat]

34. ROTFL !

Did you just mention Sand B in the same breath as the Kof C? You are kidding , right? My Dad was a Past Grand Knight and even I know that isn't that big a deal! And so you don't know any S and B and it doesn't sound like you were a Frat Boy either or you would have mentioned it rather than Kof C ! I still say that if you know nothing about something ,you shouldn't jump to conclusions. You need to take a bonesman to lunch as well!

[Visioneer]

35. I will try to take a Bonesman to lunch

>>>>You need to take a bonesman to lunch as well!>>>>

There seem to be >800 left. Do you have any suggestions on how I may accomplish this feat? I will start the search myself but any help is appreciated.

Don't pooh-pooh the K-of-C initiation rites BTW. There are a million of them who have internet access compared to 800 S+B yet there are no posted rites for either.

[ebayfool]

38. Are you the same one who posted about Mad Cow update/info?

with such 'feewing'? :freak:

[Visioneer]

115. No Mad Cow posts from me

>>>Are you the same one who posted about Mad Cow update/info?>>>>

Due to my interest in the mechanics of conspiracies, both proven and unproven, I can assure you that Mad Cow disease is off my radar. If you get a second, post a link to the thread, if you can. I'd like to see the similarity or whatever caused you to make a connection.

I am not trying to push the S&B issue as some sort of "truth". I am extremely interested, however, in the parallels in the realm of conspiracy and conjecture when compared to the election fraud theory. The facts are just barely proveable at best in both cases IMHO, but the people factor is through the roof. It does not get any better than this... well except for when something breaks and you get to watch people backtrack, cover, and spin. That rarely happens though.

My apologies if I seem like some sort of troll. This topic interests me and I am not one to march along in lockstep when in a crowd but rather I am much happier as an observer. I like searching for truth, and while my manner may be a bit selfish by way of not having a "Bush Sucks" avatar or an upside-down flag graphic sig, I feel that something can be learned from both theories even if we may never know all the facts of either.

>>>with feewing>>>

Random Kentucky Fried movie quote. This is why I don't post so much.

[Up2Late]

163. I'm afraid you missed most of the action and good info

Most of that happened from December 1, 2004 until before Christmas.

You should try to read some of the "HOT" threads (the one's with the flaming icons) from that period, before they escape into the ether.

Also, I found a really good LIST of Conspiracy Theory's yesterday at Rotten.com at <http://www.rotten.com/library/conspiracy />
This 'ill smok'em out, if we have any S & B watching us.

"...Super-hot-babe journalist Alexandra Robbins wrote a book on Skull and Bones in which she delved into the group's kinky secrets, just like in the movies! She described the group's initiation ritual to CBS News thusly:

There is a devil, a Don Quixote and a Pope who has one foot sheathed in a white monogrammed slipper resting on a stone skull. The initiates are led into the room one at a time. And once an initiate is inside, the Bonesmen shriek at him. Finally, the Bonesman is shoved to his knees in front of Don Quixote as the shrieking crowd falls silent. And Don Quixote lifts his sword and taps the Bonesman on his left shoulder and says, 'By order of our order, I dub thee knight of Euloga.'

According to Robbins, the Bonesmen take on secret and occultish names such as Magog and Boaz. Robbins claims Magog was the name traditionally given to the member with the most sexual experience, such as (incredibly) Bush Sr. In a telling anecdote related for the Atlantic Monthly, Robbins wrote:

George W. was not assigned a name but invited to choose one. According to one report, nothing came to mind, so he was given the name Temporary, which, it is said, he never bothered to replace; Temporary is how Bush's fellow Bonesmen know him today.

Sigh..."

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

63. I agree with you, it isn't bull at all. There are books out there about

the history and I think it would be the educated thing to do to learn about this nefarious society before neatly placing those who know how powerful they are into the tinfoil hat section.

Here is a link to Wikopedia's info on it. There are good sources to go from there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_Bones

[Up2Late]

101. Good Post

Thanks
and Welcome to DU :toast:

[WildEyedLiberal]

17. I love that picture

I love his pants.

[pacalo]

20. They're back in style!

I love it, too -- it shows how Kerry meticulously studies the opposition.

[zann725]

22. What a great JK pic! Thanks for sharing! Never saw it before.

n/t

[pacalo]

24. YmorethanW!

I love it, too. :)

[Old Mouse]

10. Your theories are not as far fetched as some might say

I do not think there is a Skull and Bones connection, but given the circumstances, all possibilities should be considered. By contrast, the levels of fraud and voter intimidation we speak of regularly here seem ridiculous to the average American. I think the other posters meant the idea has already been throughly discussed and summarily dismissed in previous forums.

What I have been told, and now believe, is simply that he did not think the fight could be won. The people rose up and gathered evidence, calculated odds, and made gains in the media enough to get him peripherally involved in the issue once again.

[malatesta1137]

15. the ones calling Skull & Bones 'bullshit'

are either blind or terribly ignorant, ignorant of American history and ignorant of the politics that go behind the conquer of power.

They think America is a free society with leaders chosen directly by the population. They can't see that elections are an illusion set up by the ones in power, the candidates that really offer choice are never allowed to be in a position to win.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Kerry and Bush were still connected by Skull & Bones or call it whatever you want to call it. I said this back when Howard Dean, the true alternative to Bush, started losing to Kerry in the primaries. Everything happening now does NOT contradict a word of it then.

[Visioneer]

19. Well put

When Kerry's campaign spokesperson was asked about it, she said, quote, “John Kerry has absolutely nothing to say on that subject. Sorry".

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0122-10.htm

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

64. Thank you. n/t

[Not a Sheep]

16. I don't think that he conceded because of.....

.......a Skull & Bones connection.

He conceded because it was apparent to him and his people that he wasn't going to make up the vote difference to win Ohio. It's two months later and despite what people on this forum would like to believe, we still have no "smoking gun" or "proof" of fraud. Yes, we have all kinds of evidence of potential wrongdoing and Blackwell has done many things to cause suspicion but unfortunately still no proof of fraud.

Kerry did not have reason enough to believe that there was fraud on the 3rd so he conceded.

[pacalo]

88. He didn't have the evidence at that time.

The former prosecutor couldn't flail his arms up chanting fraud or he would have closed his legal options. The election would have been decided by Scalia's (Cheney's hunting buddy's) SCOTUS.

I think his focus at the state level was a good move. Look how incriminating Ohio's Chief Justice Thomas Moyer's ruling is in regard to the suit filed by 37 Ohio voters:

Imagine reading this through the eyes of SCOTUS:

{¶7} Contestors claim that I should be disqualified from presiding over this presidential election contest based on their assertion that I have a conflict of interest and bias or prejudice against them. Contestors assert that this conflict of January Term, 2004 interest, bias, and prejudice are established because (1) allegations of deliberate election fraud in this case are similar to allegations in the separate election contest involving the chief justice election, (2) it is possible that I acquired knowledge of deliberate national and statewide election fraud and that contestors may decide it is necessary to depose me, (3) as Chief Justice, I have an economic interest in this presidential election contest because it could contribute to the loss of the income I earn from the position, and (4) I did not grant contestors’ December 17, 2004 motion for emergency expedited hearing and emergency expedited relief to prevent spoliation of evidence and to preserve documentary and electronic evidence.

{¶8} Because the General Assembly has vested the Chief Justice with the responsibility to hear and decide statewide election contests such as that now before the court, it is my ethical obligation to do so. Canon 3(B)(1), Code of Judicial Conduct (“A judge shall hear and decide matters assigned to the judge except those in which disqualification is required”). Having reviewed contestors’ motion, I conclude that it is without merit. I am grateful for contestors’ generous statement in their motion to disqualify that they “have not made (and do not at this time make) any allegation that Chief Justice Moyer personally did anything improper on or before election day (November 2, 2004) or in any way participated in the deliberate national election fraud and deliberate election fraud in Ohio.” Their further statement, however, that “it is possible that Chief Justice Moyer wittingly or unwittingly acquired knowledge of deliberate national and statewide election fraud” is wholly without foundation and totally lacks any degree of veracity. Its speculative and ungrounded nature does not constitute grounds for disqualification.

Does this not stink to high heaven?

The link for the justice's ruling can be found in the article here: http://www.breakfornews.com/articles/MoyerDeniesKnowing...

[Up2Late]

105. I'm getting a "link not found"

when I click on it, and also,

couldn't we add 'R' to SCOTUS? because it is, or will soon become the Supreme Republican Court of The United(?) States. That would make it SCROTUS (Latin for Scrotum, or not) :evilgrin:or the less fun, but more accurate SRCOTUS

[pacalo]

139. Hey, "SCROTUS" works for me, Up2Late.

Good call! :hi:

[super simian]

18. Has a plan

After that first kicked in the head feeling subsided on 11/3, and then reports of serious election fraud began to emerge, I have believed that Kerry conceded and then stayed out of the spotlight because strategically that is the best position. Looking at how fast those thousands of Sore Loserman signs started waving around in front of the cameras in 2000 it is clear to me that they had warehouses full of those signs printed up even before the election. Also it was amazing how well-coordinated the Brooks Brothers riot was on such "short notice."

So now they have four years to plan the coup in 2004 and I am sure there are warehouses full of Sore Kerryman signs and hundreds of Brooks Brothers on notice with their suitcases packed to fly to Ohio or wherever and dance around in front of the TV cameras. Plus all the press releases were written in advance and all of the right wing pundits had their scripts ready. If Kerry had tried to stand up and make an objection the media response would have made the Swift Boat Vets for Truth look like the John Kerry Fan Club.

There have been times when I have lost heart and thought I was giving Kerry too much credit and also fooling myself because I want to believe that there is still hope that the injustice that occured on 11/2 can be rectified. On the other hand, I truly believe that Kerry and Edwards are both very smart and savvy guys and they also had their strategy about how to deal with election fraud worked out way in advance.

I never believed that skull and bones wheeze for one split second. Anyone who saw the way that Kerry conducted himself if the debates couldn't really believe that he saw himself as being in the same club with Chimp.

As for what will happen, I can't make any predictions. I believe that Conyers and Arnebeck have evidence that they aren't sharing. I don't believe they would have gone as far as they have if they didn't have something pretty solid. I think Jesse Jackson is one person who might know what is really going on with John Kerry.

In order to disable the shitstorm that the GOP has ready to throw at Kerry the minute he even whispers the words "election fraud," it's important for him to stay out of the picture. After all, his campaign for election is over, and it is now up to the voters. That's us, and I am so grateful to all of you folks for staying on this. Thanks!!!


:bounce: :hi: :dem: :kick:

[Visioneer]

21. I disagree

>>>I never believed that skull and bones wheeze for one split second. Anyone who saw the way that Kerry conducted himself if the debates couldn't really believe that he saw himself as being in the same club with Chimp.>>>

Kerry could have toasted Bush's ass in a split second at any given moment in the debates.

Count me as one of those HIGHLY disgruntled Dean supporters. Something stinks with the whole Kerry deal and this thread has got my Irish up bigtime.

[super simian]

25. This works well for the Irish...

I know from personal experience, so have a couple on me...

"Time will tell who has fell and whose been left behind." (Bob Dylan)

:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :toast:

[merh]

48. HE DID

"Kerry could have toasted Bush's ass in a split second at any given moment in the debates."

LOL

[super simian]

87. Hey, that's what I'm saying!

B*sh in that first one gave a whole new meaning to peevish arrogance and it wasn't just because Kerry wasn't helping him out!

:bounce: :hi: :bounce:

[Blue_In_AK]

94. You got that right.

I don't see how anybody could have watched those three debates and voted for Bush. He looked totally ignorant.

[FULL_METAL_HAT]

49. My analysis/belief too :)

There's many signs and portents pointing to serious background action.

"Stealthy Team Kerry" has a plan to fight against ALL THE ODDS and its coming together nicely it seems.

[flyarm]

62. i am with you on that!!

remember the so call faux pas that kerry made with the media saying these people in this admin are evil or really crooked..i can't remember the exact quote...but remember it..when kerry was supposedly caught on the record wispering to a group of men at a rally..well that was no faux pas...he wanted that to be heard...i do not believe anything with this campaign was done by mistake...this brilliant presecutor knew exactly what he was doing...every step of the way!!

i was a delegate and had a field rep living with me throughout the campaing..everything was scripted to the t....
in pinellas fla we had a huge office and the young man in charge lived with me..the efforts here were phenominal...the data bases built with soe records was unpressidented...(sp?)

and all those data bases were sent directly to Kerrys offices in d.c.
he even brought in an election guru from minnesota..to over see the last month of record keeping...all registrations were kept on records and data bases..and all absentee ballot records were kept on data bases..kerrys people had a guy just here to be in charge of the data base computers...do not put anything past the brilliant kerry!!
i dont want to spill beans i shouldn't but please..there was nothing taken for granted!!
Kerry knew the fix was in..he had experts swarming around us down here in fla...we had no less than 200 volunteers a day working..but kerry had a slew of field reps working here..all under the young lawyer who was the head rep who was living with me..i can assure you..every drop of info from here was going directly to d.c. and kerrys offices!!
we had so many computers and printers sent down here that was unbelievable..and cell phones up the kazoo...and all the reps he sent down here were all expert in one area of campaign they were specialized...and compartmentalized..
the data bases that were being built was phenomenal!!
while i was working the data bases i guess i was naive...at the time but in hindsight ..i now see it was not just for the election..it was for post election...and i can tell you it was brilliant!!

fly

[FULL_METAL_HAT]

70. "These Guys Are the Most Crooked, Lying Group I've Ever Seen" - JK

Kerry, thinking he was off-mike, said this to some union members.

"We're just getting started. These Guys Are the Most Crooked, Lying Group I've Ever Seen"

He _knows_ it!

Fly, thanks for piping up with some inside details -- most people don't have any basis for BELIEVING since they rely on the notion of, ahem, "the Media", and "the Courts" ...

Kerry knew they were both compromised as a vietnamese fishing boat with no nets!

Any other tidbits for public consumption you have as day-after-new-year's hors d'oeuvres? :)

All the best in the new year Flyarm!
{B^)
FMH

p.s. your arm isn't from a nasty teleportation experiment gone awry is it?? ;)

[flyarm]

74. yes thats the quote!!!! thx!!

and the arm is my initials!!!..or since i was a flt attend you could see the " arm " as my wings!!!lol

thanks for the good cheer ..i wish you a happy new year as well...gosh it can't be worse can it??..i am pinning my hopes for a good year on jfk...he knew what was going on..don't let anyone tell you otherwise!!

and do remember who left the 9/11 commission to help his campaign..

Max Cleland!!
they knew exactly what they were up against!..AND THEY PREPARED FOR IT..jFK IS NO ONE'S DUMMY!!

FLY

[merh]

85. Welcome to DU flyarm!

Glad you have joined our discourse. :hi: I love a good chess game, don't you!

<>

[flyarm]

99. why ..thank you merth!!!

I was too busy working the campaign to post before..i was a delegate here in fla, and i had speaking engagements many nights and working for the campaign headquarters here in fla...i also have worked the 9/11 stuff..of which my main goal has always been , to get to the truth..as my co-workers were killed on 9/11 because of this evil administration...my main goals were always to educate...as many as i could reach with truth, and to force people to ask the right questions..
after all wrong questions only disguise the truth! we can see this daily with this non media we have!
i have worked with a group of people for 3 yrs now ..doing daily research and they have been on a mission to post the info all over the internet ..to educate americans ...


... my mission is truth..and i will fight to the bitter end for truth and my nation...as i can see most here do as well!!..and i thank all of you for your endless fight and research , and your stand for truth!!

pass this one on and ask why did jeb do this?? check out the date!! 4 days before 9/11!!



EXECUTIVE ORDER NUMBER 2001-261 This is the order he signed on 9-07

http://sun6.dms.state.fl.us/eog_new/eog/orders/2001/september/eo2001-261-09-07-01.html

i leave you with my favorite quote!! happy new year!!

Dissent

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
-- Margaret Mead

[merh]

104. I have seen that before. There are several threads that discuss

9/11. Some LIHOP (let it happen) and others MIHOP (made it happen). There is a forum full of the threads.

I love that Margaret Mead quote.


DU BELIEVE? I DU BELIEVE!

[saracat]

121. Hi again, flyarm!

You are a "real" truth seeker" unlike some who live in a negative la la land. It is great to see you again!:hi:

[flyarm]

131. thank you Sacacrat!!!

hello to you as well saracrat!! you seem to be a great truth seeker as well and i appreciate that!!!
HAPPY NEW YEAR AND MAY IT START ON JAN 6TH!!

FLY:party:

[Withywindle]

26. Because he thought he lost

That alleged 3 million popular vote margin may have convinced him that Ohio would not be worth another, much worse "Sore Loserman" nightmare in the spotlight that would have been spun as a PR disaster not just for him but for the whole Democratic Party.

I don't think he knew how widespread the fraud was on November 3rd, honestly. I do believe he does now.

[jmatthan]

30. Kerry conceded because he knew he had failed

The fight he had to make was BEFORE the election not after. Without that groundwork he had no option but to concede.

He ignored all the evidence before him that the election was going to be stolen.
He did not defend himself appropriately in the Swift Boat accusations.
He did not call Bush a liar on the issues that were before him.
He vacillated on the Iraq troops issue.
He tried to play nice guy when the other side was killing him and his character!!
He monopolised the Democratic convention and there was only ONE speech, Al Sharpton, which called the true tune, and Al was going to be done to death for it till Kerry realised that Al had the audience on his side!!

There are many more instances which showed Kerry to be not the right material for a President..

He reported for duty and was doing what his Commanding Officer told him!!

The question is as to who was his Commanding Officer - Bush, Theresa,...

As I watched his campaign unfold, his whole run for President was a tale of shambles. He connected with no one but his ardent supporters (which were few) and the whole election was an Anybody But Bush campaign rather than Kerry for President!! That is why there is no ground-swell against the stolen election!! Ground Swell would be there if you had a Leader who was willing to FIGHT on behalf of the troops or his election base. Kerry knows that it is not his election base but an ABB one.

Even at this stage you can see that Kerry's fight is on the coat tails of others - not of HIS making!!

The only SWIFT thing he did was CONCEDE!!

Jacob Matthan
Oulu,Finland

[KoKo]

44. Well said....in hindsight it sure looks like the scenario you post is the

correct one....much as I wish it had been otherwise...

[lonestarnot]

51. Conceded because race deligitimized by the CHEAT!

In a horse race when horses are being pulled and your running neck and neck with someone out of the know, a cutoff can be seen in tape of the race and a horse disqualified. Back in the day there were no video tapes and the race was just over. We are living a back in the day in our "free world" elections. The thing about back in the day, when horses were pulled, there were many ramifications of the fight after the race. Ostracized jockeys, marginalized trainers/owners within social circles and future races affected with another pull or worse yet dead horses, barn fires etc. :nuke:

[librechik]

53. so let's throw down and fight it out now, before

all the evidence is destroyed! That's what MY CANDIDATE would have said (unlike Gore, unlike Kerry)

I didn't have a horse in this race, just tagging along with th rest of the herd. Sad.

[lonestarnot]

80. ok

[flyarm]

75. I BELIEVE YOU ARE WRONG! N/T

[malatesta1137]

107. correct on

each point.

[Visioneer]

36. Everything you wanted to know about Skull and Bones

http://www.parascope.com/articles/0997/skullbones.htm

[merh]

50. Explain to me why Kerry pursued and kept alive the BCCI

investigation, despite his bonesman connections to parties that were negatively affected by the investigation?

Get a f*ckin grip.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

66. Did George ever get even indicted in connection to his insider trading

and BCCI? I think not........

[merh]

82. AHHHHH, who was the president and in charge of the executive

branch during that time????????????????????????????????

COULD IT BE POPPY?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

110. Yes, it was Papa Bush. Still George should have been prosecuted.

It's no different with Iran-Contra. Papa Bush remained unscathed.

[merh]

112. That does not make the efforts to see poppy & his evil minions

pay for their crimes was not legitimate and hard fought. If it had not been for Kerry, that Iran-Contra crap would never have been pursued. As for the idiot son, well, he wasn't even on the radar then. He was considered a billy carter if you will, just a hapless, idiot child. Poppy protected him and poppy pardoned all involved in the crimes of his admin.

That does not negate Kerry's efforts to take down the BFEE.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

116. Nor does it prove that he did the best he could.

[merh]

118. If he and Heinz hadn't pursued it, it would have been buried.

Gee, it wasn't enough that Olie North and others were indicted. Hard to get convictions when the pres is the guy with his hand in the cookie jar and is granting pardons.

[Kansas Wyatt]

67. Kerry even brought up BCCI before the election...

Shrub was having a photo-op at the U.N., and Kerry had a news conference right after Shrub's photo-op. Kerry said that with him as President, he would chase down the money trails leading to the terrorists, like he did with the BCCI. Not sure of the exact quote, but it caught my attention because of the Bush family's traitorous background.

[BrightKnight]

37. More S&B information

http://www.tarpley.net/bush7.htm

Someone als suggested "Kitty Kelly's book for good, thoroughly researched information on the whole sleazy bunch." I have not read this yet.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

69. An excellent book that goes into the history is

Fleshing Out Skull and Bones

http://www.fleshingoutskullandbones.com/

[roenyc]

40. What was your first thought?

when he came on that TV after john Edwards said they were going to count every vote and Kerry says he is conceding. Your immediate thought as to why?

me: i thought why? how could he, he owes it to the people, he promised! i must have sounded like a 10 year old who's dad just broke a promise.

my daughter: he has a gun to head. trust me. he was threatened.

my next thought: he is a gentlemen, S&B brothers make a promises they know secrets blah blah blah.

i just couldn't wrap myself around anything logical because i didn't want to think he conceded because he thought he actually lost and didn't care about the people who were disenfranchised. i still have a big problem with that. so.

I cried my daughter cried. no one understood our pain. or why we were so upset.

Now i understand, he cant prove the fraud. but perhaps if he was involved at the start in Ohio he could have. and we need to ask ourselves that question. if he was involved in Ohio from day one with the glibs would Blackwell have gotten away with what he did.

and i ask you all why. he didn't have to make noise but he could have filed with the glibs instead of just sending lawyers that hung around and did nothing. and according to Andy may have hindered Florida. what the f is going on one asks. damn i woke up in a bad mood.

[Warrior4Peace]

52. My first thought

while watching JK's facial language upon announcing concession... like your daughter: someone's life was threatened (Edwards' kids, etc).

Later, my theory was S& B

Now--dunno what to think. Either he hasn't the integrity i thought (i.e., if S&B or if whole race were a sham) or more is going on by his lawyers in OH than we know. Had some hope return a week ago w. their Triad filings.

And WHY would he have trip to Iraq planned for Jan.6 if he were interested in contesting or getting other Senators like Kennedy to?

So, I can't believe he would've folded so soon (i.e. accepted myth that Nov.3 there wasn't enuf evidence or counting provisional ballots wouldn't make a diff.) unless 1 of my 2 theories OR he had a secret (even to date, w no Senator saying that they'll contest) plan.

And not utilizing our campaign money to help Glibs, such as in NM--what's up w. that?

Unless he redeems himself, JK is "dead to me" now. As are the Dems.

Give me Al Sharpton at this point.
O/T, but anyone know whazzup re Kucinich???

[Up2Late]

111. It's the silence of Kucinich

that makes me think something very DEEP, is in the works. At least I hope Dennis is involved:shrug:

[pick_a_dilly]

135. The Democratic Party is also ...

DEAD TO ME ---- if they do not fight this one ----- here and NOW. The way I see it is that if they remain silent they are complicit, PERIOD. They are no better then the THUGS.

I have sent many messages to all my Senators and Reps with a simple message . . .

"I AM OUTRAGED THAT YOU ARE NOT OUTRAGED!
If however something is happening on the QT and the retreat was a tactical one ----- then BLESS YOU! Fight the good fight!!!

[flyarm]

65. my very first thought was...the plan is now in motion!!

the plan to now expose this rotten bunch in this white house!!
and to stop the theft once and for all!!

fly

[merh]

95. What makes you think fraud can't be proven?

What, have you been reading those kooky lawyers post about evidence and admissability crap? Notice how it is that those guys are posting to slam Arnebeck and the legal efforts, but they fail to post any type of response to the question as to whether or not Rove is subject to the Hatch Act. That is a good one to get an opinion on, but they don't want to do anything more than give opinions on how badly the legal case is going and how it ain't worth a doodoo. Things that make you go hmmmmm?

Just wondering what you have read that concludes that fraud cannot be proved.

[roenyc]

108. its not what i think that matters

its what is being thrown around. Kerry is saying he cant prove fraud so he cant join in on this.

now theory is if they could prove it Kerry would be screaming from the roof tops right?

so? there ya go. i on the other hand dont know what they can or cant prove. i am too far removed. i think its a shame that Kerry didn't get involved earlier and its a travesty of justice that the judge who may not have even been legally elected is allowed to hear these case.

[FULL_METAL_HAT]

42. 100% Pre-planned ...

"Stealthy Team Kerry" has stratergerized lots of possible options and they knew the if there was massive election piracy, there would be only one path to victory.

That started with taking the "oxygen" away from the fire of the MSM kill-machine.

_Everyone_ expected the 17 million lawyers to swoop down and make for a fantastic 3 ring circus.

NO ONE expected the instant disappearence of JK.

I heard even * was surprised by the "Kerry Concession Event". If shrub&co. were surprised we know JK was one-step ahead of them.

FWIW, at the moment of the KCE, I instantly put up the Skull & Bones scenario on my wall with a note that if this were true, then that is a "terminal node" of analysis since it would mean there was so much other fizzlefazzle at foot that it wouldn't matter, and I would take my hat off to anyone who could pull of such a stunt.

"Stealthy Team Kerry" has a plan to fight against ALL THE ODDS and its coming together nicely it seems.

That's my belief and I'm sticking to it!

All the best,
FMH

[corbett]

54. Chimp And KKKarl Won't Know What Hit 'Em!

Your analysis is perfect! When the dust settles and Kerry is President #44, the repukes will feel just like they did when Slick Willy won in 1992, "How could we have lost?"

[FULL_METAL_HAT]

72. Oh, they'll KNOW :)

Check out my posts over here for a breakdown:

If the Repub MSM Machine is NOT nailing Conyers then they know somethin
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=216096

Why Election Reform Can't Wait! ... Strong Statement Worth Reading!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=216921&mesg_id=217494

All the best in the New Year corbett!

{B^)
FMH

[Up2Late]

114. One thing you over looked

The silence re: J.Conyers could mean they are gathering facts, to then put out a slew:puke: of Slanderous statements regarding Conyers, and why the "Good Christian people who Love America" shouldn't believe anything he says. :evilfrown:

[corbett]

127. Quite Right - What I Meant Is

They won't know where the grass roots zeal which will strike them was. I was a volunteer poll monitor in Florida on Election Day and got an earful from a voter who had been dropped from the rolls even though she had voted in the primaries, hadn't moved, hadn't changed her name but had kids living with her who were still on the rolls. She stated very matter-of-factly, "He ain't gon' git away wit' it 'gain!"

She was right, of course, and I only wish to channel her energy.

Thanks for driving me toward a greater degree of accuracy with my posts!

[dkofos]

71. 100% preplanned???

IMHO only 50% of the planning was done.

If you knew there was going to be FRAUD, and I'm sure JK knew, (he did say these are the most corrupt people he had ever run against), wouldn't you want to have not just an army of lawyers, but an army of FBI agents, prosecuters, and judges just waiting to jump on any piece of fraud that was uncovered.

I personally expected more out of JK than what I am seeing.
If the same inept people that ran his campaign are running this alledged
fight, we have lost.

[FULL_METAL_HAT]

73. I hear ya, BUT...

As we've learned in the past four years, all the "regular" routes to justice are tainted at best, ENEMIES at worst:

• FBI agents - Asscroft... need I say more? (but there _ARE_ good-guy FBI agents who ARE helping behind the scenes I'm sure)
  
  
• prosecuters - Ken Starr... need I say more?
  
  
• and judges - SCOTUS BENT OVER IN 2000... need I say more?
  

I still say ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of ELECTION PIRACY PLANNING was in place before Nov2.

Kerry's been against a lot of foes ... he KNOWS!!!

All the best in the New Year Dkofos!
{B^)
FMH

[flyarm]

76. YOU ARE DEAD ON IT!!

KERRY IS NOBODYS FOOL..HE WAS PREPARED , AND SO WERE THE DEMS...BUT THEY WERE NOT GOING TO GET CAUGHT IN THE ROVE FLY TRAP TWICE...THIS WAS PLANNED AND IS NOW BEING PROCECUTED BRILLIANTLY!!

[flyarm]

77. READ THIS ..I KEPT IN FILES THIS WAS OUT BEFORE ELECTION ..

THINK KERRY DIDN'T KNOW??? oh come now!!

sorry the link no longer works...so here is full text!! check the date!!! fly


Lynn Investigates
Could the Associated Press (AP) Rig the Election? (Check updates at bottom)



by Lynn Landes 10/22/04



The Associated Press (AP) will be the sole source of raw vote totals for the major news broadcasters on Election Night. However, AP spokesmen Jack Stokes and John Jones refused to explain to this journalist how the AP will receive that information. They refused to confirm or deny that the AP will receive direct feed from voting machines and central vote tabulating computers across the country. But, circumstantial evidence suggests that is exactly what will happen.



And what can be downloaded can also be uploaded. Computer experts say that signals can travel both to and from computerized voting machines through wireless technology, modems, and even simple electricity. Computer scientists have long warned that computer voting is an invitation to vote fraud and system failure. An examination of Diebold election software by several computer scientists, including Dr. Avi Rubin and his staff, proved that secret backdoors can be built into computer programs that allow votes to be easily manipulated without detection.



ES&S, the nation's largest voting machine company that will reportedly count 50% of all votes, describe on their webpage how "accessible" their results are, "At ES&S, we know election administrators and the public want fast and accurate election results. That is why we have developed several election management system software solutions to make the reporting process easier, more reliable, and more accessible." Diebold, the second largest voting machine company, advertises a similar service. Both ES&S and Diebold have close ties to the Republican Party.



But, can't the AP be trusted? Isn't it an objective non-partisan news organization? Some say no. The AP is batting for a Bush presidency.



In Online Journal, Stephen Crockett and Al Lawrence, the hosts of Democratic Talk Radio, wrote, "...the Associated Press ran a story that was widely published in newspapers and on the Internet, headlined "Bush Leads Kerry In Electoral Votes," that could have been written by the Bush campaign. The assignment of states to candidates, the headline and the conclusions were all simply wrong. The Associated Press should print a retraction and work to see that it is widely published."



And on WBAY TV in Green Bay, Wisconsin ran an AP article reporting that Bush has won the election, weeks before the election is to take place. The AP reported, "At this hour, President Bush has won re-election as president by a 47 percent to 43 percent margin in the popular vote nationwide. Ralph Nader has 1 percent of the vote nationwide. That's with 51 percent of the precincts reporting." According to reports, the AP is now saying the article was a "test article," a never-heard-before journalistic practice.



Who is the AP? The Associated Press was founded in 1848. It is a not-for-profit news cooperative, some would say ‘monopoly’, that rakes in about $500 million dollars a year. The AP is owned by its 1,500 U.S. daily newspaper members. Their board of directors is elected by voting ‘bonds’. However, it is not clear who controls the bonds. AP spokespeople would not give out information on who sits on their board, however AP leadership appears quite conservative.



Burl Osborne, chairman of the AP board of directors, is also publisher emeritus of the conservative The Dallas Morning News, a newspaper that endorsed George W. Bush in the last election. Kathleen Carroll, senior vice president and executive editor of AP, was a reporter at The Dallas Morning News before joining AP. Carroll is also on the Associated Press Managing Editors (APME)’s 7-member executive committee. The APME "works in partnership with AP to improve the wire service's performance," according to their website. APME vice president, Deanna Sands, is managing editor of the ultra conservative Omaha World Herald newspaper, whose parent company owns the largest voting machine company in the nation, Election Systems and Software (ES&S).



Many Americans believe that polling organizations and the broadcasters will raise the red flag on any election shenanigans. But others have their doubts.



The Collier brothers, authors of the book, VoteScam: The Stealing of America, wrote about vote fraud and the role the news media and polls played. In 1970, Channel 7 in Miami projected with 100% accuracy (a virtual impossibility) the final vote totals on election day. When asked where they got their exit poll data, both Channel 3 & Channel 7 claimed that the League of Women Voters sent it in from the precincts. But, the League's local president tearfully denied it, saying, "I don't want to get caught up in this thing." The broadcasters then told the Colliers that a private contractor used the data from a single voting machine to project the winners, but the contractor said he got the data from a University of Miami professor, who in turn denied this. In the end, the news broadcasters appeared to have got the polling numbers out of thin air.



One thing is clear. The air will be thick with distrust and doubt on Election Night 2004.

UPDATES:


Nov 1 - The AP announces results BEFORE the election AGAIN - http://election.rockymountainnews.com/results_races.cfm) Sorry, folks, but I grabbed this page without getting the date and who sent me this info. I'll try to find it.
Nov 4 - Votes Downloaded to AP - Confirmation that the Association Press gets direct feed from voting tabulating computers - read Christopher Bollyn's article. (For more on the AP: http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=97&contentid=1624)
____________________________________



Lynn Landes is one of the nation's leading journalists on voting technology and democracy issues. Readers can find her articles at EcoTalk.org. Lynn is a former news reporter for DUTV and commentator for the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC). Contact info: [e-mail] / [phone]

[Up2Late]

126. Here ya go

This might not be where you saw it, but here's a link to it at Online Journal (an excellent info site BTW)

<http://onlinejournal.com/evoting/102304Landes/102304landes.html>

P.S. Your great :hug:

[Up2Late]

125. I hope you're right

Sorry about your Friends on 9/11. I found a good memorial page to the victims (I think it was at Bradenton.com), but I can't find it now. Here's on that not too bad.

Peace O8)

<http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/victims_list.htm>

[myschkin]

43. I think

he don't wanted follow Al Gore's destiny... He wanted to do it in a more clever way - and didn't know about the extent of fraud...

[impeachthescoundrel]

47. "we knew they were going to cheat, so we have a plan..."

Is exactly what I think the reason is.

[forgethell]

55. Because he

was behind by over 3 1/2 million votes. Fairly or otherwise. Nobody gives up the Presidency because of an old college relationship, that is absolutely ridiculous. Why wouldn't it apply equally to * ? And whatever strategy he had, it wouldn't be the Rube Goldberg option. AS some famous World Champion of Chess said many years ago, "Nobody ever won a game by resigning."

Kerry conceded because he thought he lost. He has made no credible attempt to contest the election. He hasn't even "unconceded". This may have been a mistake, 'cause time is running out.

:shrug:

[slackmaster]

56. Kerry conceded because he lost

n/t

[rodriguez94]

57. lost my ass....

Kerry only lost the election if you consider all the fraudelent voting machines....my vote was erased and has yet to be counted along with another 4300 votes in Carteret County, NC

[slackmaster]

58. Is there any chance at all that NC's electoral vote will be overturned?

Really?

According to CNN, Bush took NC by 427,103 votes. Even if all 4,300 as-yet uncounted votes in Cateret Co. go for Kerry (and what is the probability of that happening?) that's less than 1% of the difference.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/NC/P/00/index.html

Every incident of fraud and vote-fixing should be rooted out and dealt with, but at the end of the day it's not going to change the outcome of the election.

[rodriguez94]

60. outcome won't change here alone...

NO, there is no resolution...the NC BOE voted to hold a new statewide election for the Agri Comm. only...and that is being disputed in court...

and you are correct...if all the votes were counted and went to Kerry it would not change the outcome for NC>>>but if all over this country 4300 votes were stolen in these little peon counties where no body will listen to little folk......then just how hard is it imagine this election was stolen

[flyarm]

68. wrong..kerry conceded because he was ready for them!! n/t

[slackmaster]

78. Them?

Invasion of giant ants?

[flyarm]

84. the cons!!!!!!!!!!!..or ants ... whatever!! lol..n/t

[McCamy Taylor]

79. I have given up trying to second guess him. Here's a list, take your pick

1. His family was threatened by the Bush mafia

2. He was told by Rove that Dean really won key priamries, but electronic fraud "selected" Kerry and if Kerry uncovers GOP election fraud, Rove will tell the world that Kerry wasnt really the Dem's choice, ruining Kerry's future

3. Kerry never really conceded and he has a secret plan for Jan 6

4. He is afraid that there will be rioting in the streets and a second American Revolution if people find out that what Rove did and so he is "protecting" us by hiding the terrible truth from us.

5. He is a cynical politician who doesnt really give a s**t.

6. Rove has had him poisoned, the same way that the Ukrainian dude was poisoned with dioxin, so he is not in his right mind.

7. His wife is being blackmailed by Rove.

8. He is afraid of being labeled a Sore Loserman

9. He tried to contest but when he contacted the networks and Mitofsky to get exit poll data they told him that the data they would release to him would show that Bush was clearly the winner of the exit polls and that their coverage of the contest would portray him as a Sore Loserman.

10. Bill Clinton wants his wife to run and win in 2008 so he gave Kerry some really bum advise.

11. He is so absolutely disgusted and disillusioned by what he has witnessed this election that he thinks America is beyond saving and he is considering immigrating to Canada.

I feel bad for him. No decent human being should have to go to war in Vietnam and then have to put up with the Bush Cabal Sleeze Machine in one lifetime.

:cry:

[Imajika]

86. Fantasyland....

LOL. The things people will believe when they don't want to face reality. Geeze.

Perhaps the real reason Kerry conceded is that he and his campaign believes he lost, and because there is no actual evidence of any vote fraud conspiracy that resulted in Kerry having been robbed in Ohio or anywhere else? Couldn't it just be that simple?

But, as long as were just attributing hairbrained theories to Kerry's concession, how about the following:

13. Kerry has been made aware that a Godzilla like beast has been spotted in the Pacific, and that the giant lizard probably can't be stopped when it reaches the West Coast sometime next year. For the sake of national unity, Kerry conceded.

14. Rove has been employing an alien race, discovered originally at Area 51, as unstoppable assasins and special operators. Kerry was flatly told that the aliens will take all his loved ones away to a distant planet to work in the mines if he didn't graciously concede.

15. Kerry never wanted to be the actual President, he just got bored in Washington and wanted to get away for awhile by hitting the campaign trail.

16. Kerry is a communist agent, captured and brainwashed by the North Vietnamese while he was commanding Swift Boats. FBI counter intelligence has known all along, but allowed Kerry to continue spying because they had been feeding him bad information and using Kerry to throw the Vietnamese off of Bush's secret plan to reinvade the South East Asian nation. Iraq was just a diversion. Kerry was confronted after the election along with most other influential Democrats. Kerry and the party agreed to keep quiet about "the fraud" or else the GOP would expose the Democratic Party as a bunch of commies.

17. Kerry is really a Rove plant. His entire life is a lie. His anti-war activities were a clever undercover action to move into the left mainstream and run for political office. Kerry knows he won, and is even to this day laughing with Bush over how his pretend candidacy actually beat the boss. Kerry's early reward was being allowed to marry into GOP weath and knowing he would be living high on the hog for the rest of his life. The entire thing is still a big inside joke in high-up Republican circles.

18. Kerry decided Bush would be the better President and decided we were all better off allowing Bush to get away with "the fraud".

I dunno, those are my alternate reality theories on why Kerry conceded. I think these are about as believable as some others such as the Jan 6th secret plan theory.

Imajika

[McCamy Taylor]

96. This one makes me think of "A Primitive Like An Orb"

No way I'm gonna type this whole poem, even though it is one of my favorites. Here are a couple of excerpts.

"One poem proves another and the whole,

For the clairvoyant men that need no proof:

The lover, the believer and the poet.

Their words are chosen out of their desire"


"That's it! The lover wrires, the believer hears,

The poet mumbles, the painter sees,

Each one, his fated eccentricity,

As a part, but part, but tenacipous particle,

Of the skeleton of the ether, the total

Of letters, prophecies, perceptions, clods

Of colors, the giant of nothingness, each one

And the giant ever changing, living in change."


My, I feel much better now! :party:

PLease excuse me while I go visit Doohickie's "I Believe" Thread.

[DemonFighterLives]

98. Good post

I've been feeling like a flip flopper, I mean pick a reason for JFK to lose to the d*nce. I'm still hoping for the secret plan, but if we are left hanging then the S&B may have a connection.
Best link I kno of is:
http://www.ctrl.org/boodleboys/

Part 1:
http://www.ctrl.org/boodleboys/boodleboys1.html

Part 2:

http://www.ctrl.org/boodleboys/boddlesboys2.html

[yurbud]

83. not after anti-Vietnam, iran-Contra & BCCI probes

Kerry is no friend to this Wall Street Skullduggery based on the kind of investigations he did in the Senate.

My hope is he's holding his cards close to the vest.

He had a lot of shots he could have taken at the retard dauphin in the campaign and definitely during the debates that would have been devastating.

He could have held back because he feared a panicked faked terror attack and martial law power grab, or because it was too big a pill for most people to swallow--so terrible they couldn't believe their president could do that to his own people, OR some combination of the above PLUS setting a trap and playing his cards close to the vest.

There wouldn't be much advantage to fighting in the open since the press has fallen to essentially echoing the right wing talking points,so whatever he tried to get out to the public would be muddled and distorted.

[Carolab]

89. He's an empty suit n/t

[McCamy Taylor]

93. "Snow Man" by Walace Stevens

OK I must be really bored, because Im doing poetry now. The list of possibilities made think about "13 Ways of Looking at the Blackbird." and He's an Empty Suit made me think about "Snow Man"



"Snow Man" by Wallace Stevens


"One must have a mind of winter

To regard the frost and boughs

Of the pine-tees crusted with snow;

And have been cold a long time

To behold the junipers shagged with ice,

The spruces rough in the distnt glitter

Of the January sun, and not to think

Of any misery in the sound of the wind,

In the sound of a few leaves,

Which is the sound of the land

Full of the same wind

That is blowing in the same bare place

For the listener, who listens in the snow,

And, nothing himself, beholds

Nothing that is not there and the nothing that is."

[mzmolly]

90. Sharing my thoughts and opinions would be against the user rules.

Sorry, wish I could oblige.

[peacetalksforall]

97. This thread is all about Kerry, but in the end it is the other Senators

and House members who will make the difference. The Dems have a chance. We can only hope that what some people are saying here is true, that a case to prove fraud has been building. Other than that, we need Hagel of Nebraska to confess that his company committed fraud by a joint consiracy to rob citizens.

[bunny planet]

100. If any of you are still thinking that this Skull and Bones loyalty has

anything to do with John Kerry's life and purpose in this world you are deluded!!!!! I can't say this enough. This is a man who went to VIETNAM. That is the 'club' he has allegiance to, that is the seminal event that changed his life forever. That is the experience that made him devote his life to public service and forever altered his world view. Skull and Bones is just a secret club for rich boys held in a building without windows. GET REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Stop perpetrating the 'Skull and Bones' myth once and for all. Why do I have to get so froggy with you people who insist on bringing that up.

[New Earth]

102. hahahah

you can get froggy while i get

[DemonFighterLives]

109. It's OK Bunny and Faye

You can get as mad as you want, but it won't change history. :-)

[bunny planet]

120. I wasn't even mad about the changing history part dfl, I am sick of

hearing this bogus crap about Skull and Bones. That is what my rant uppthread was about. As for history, a defeatist attitude would probably never change it, you are correct about that. Lucky for me I don't have one, so I might just have a shot.

[Vektor]

106. At the time...

He probably believed that he rightly lost. No investigations had been done yet. This was only hours after the polls closed. He had no way of knowing they'd uncover so much.

[NVMojo]

113. It would be so great for you if it was that simple, right?

A comic book explanation to a very complicated national situation that is not about ONE MAN. Sigh....

[WilliamPitt]

117. Incredible bullshit

Anyone who thinks Kerry wanted to do anything but win needs to get in out of the rain, find a hobby, seek therapy, up their medication, learn a little more about politics, or any combination thereof.

[New Earth]

119. hahaha w00t!

:bounce:

[saracat]

122. Thank you Will. I get tired of repeating myself. Maybe it will mean

something coming from you.There is a bit much of this on this thread.I need hip boots! Happy New Year!( I still think they need to take a bonesman to lunch! Giggle.) Whatever happened to primary sources?

[Raster]

124. Agreed. Concession legally meant nothing. And let's face it, once all

the anomalies, occurrences, coincidences, software glitches, equipment failures and acts of suppression started popping up all across the country, it became pretty obvious that no democrat candidate was going to fairly win this election. Kerry's concession bought time. We all knew this election would be dirty.

[Laurab]

130. He conceded cause he had no reason not to?

Sure he had an idea what was going on, but no proof. Being too smart to be a pawn in the right-wing media attack that would surely be forthcoming, he conceded and "went on with his life" - or at least, appeared to.

I've become a conspiracy theorist of the worst kind - I believe JK has been monitoring this from the day he conceded - well, probably even before, and getting together the evidence needed to contest a stolen election. I believe he knows EXACTLY how these people need to be dealt with, and is playing the game accordingly. I'm with Full Metal & all the rest who believe in THAT particular "conspiracy theory". It makes perfect sense to me, and continues the pattern of how he's fought the other battles in his life, when he's been dealing with lying, cheating scum.

With that being said, and acknowledging that I am indeed a conspiracy theorist - the Skull and Bones thing makes me laugh. Reading those posts, I can understand how even freepers can laugh at us, because it's just downright ridiculous.

[Raster]

137. At the time, concession was the right thing to do.

Kerry had two options. Come out swinging or concede and back off. There was no in between. If Kerry had come out swinging he would have been hit from every angle by *EVERYTHING* in the kkkarl rove dirty tricks arsenal. Think about it. The media circus would have rapidly degraded the national discussion into anything negative about Kerry and and his legitimacy as rightfully elected. Sadly, the Supreme Court might get their chance to throw yet another presidential election bush*'s way. I believe Kerry made the only logical choice. He had to buy time. Besides, nothing is *OVER* until the election is certified by Congress. It's a given that there will be challenges in Congress. It's also a given that the Electoral College Election Pageant, which is usually symbolic and under publicized, will be in PRIMETIME this year, and watched by the entire world. Kerry didn't need to do anything but make a little speech that meant nothing and hunker down. The constant barrage of negativity has stopped and he isn't living his life on the defensive.

[corbett]

128. Nobody Works 100 Hours A Week For 2 Years And Not Want To Win

WILL THE MAN!

[Up2Late]

134. To Which Bullshit do you refer?

I'm not a mind-reader, so feel I should ask, :wtf:What Bullshit are you referring to?

Are you saying my Question was bullshit? It seems obvious that the variety of opinions expressed here would indicate you're wrong. I posed an honest question. That's what sites like this are for; exchanging ideas. :grr:

Or is it the idea of secret societies and clubs are Bullshit? I turned down the opportunity to join Lambda Chi Alpha in Collage because, I thought it was Bullshit, at the time, but later came to realize their might be some advantages to being a member of such clubs, so I might agree with you on that point.

But seeing how many of the "people in power," in our government, past and present, as well as governments and corporations around the world are past members of these groups, I think any intelligent person would want to ask questions like this.

Groups like Skull and Bones are, by their very nature, practically the definition of conspiracy.

Just as is this 2004 Election Fraud, by all the different aspects of which have been reveled here at DU, is a conspiracy.

If anyone here thinks any of this stuff is new, they should check out this bit of recent history at <http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id462/pg1/>

or "Votescam 2000" by Jonathan Vankin in Disinformation's new book, Everything You Know Is Wrong. The Presidential theft of (or 2004) 2000 was nothing new!

[merh]

136. Since you began this discussion, I pose my question to you.

How can you explain Kerry's alligence to the bonesmen when he was the senator that pursued the BCCI investigation, despite the pressure to drop it that was put on him by poppy's admin? How do you explain his involvement in the investigation that exposed another bonesman's criminal activities?

:shrug: Just wondering, and if you answer like others on this thread that no one was prosecuted, keep in mind who was in charge of the WH at that time.

[Up2Late]

151. I think they were the actions of a Young, new to the Senate...

...,thought he could change the "Status Quo,":silly: didn't realize how deep the conspiracy was when he started the investigation, Senator.

I'm not one of those people who think every person who has ever been a part of "Skull and Bones" is Bad or Evil, but I'm sure the "dark side" is more powerful and influential that the lighter side of that Club. He may have been hoping to clean up the Clubs reputation. I, un-like some Democrats and most Republicans, understand that John Kerry was "doing the right thing" when he testified before Congress re: the Vietnam War.

I saw "Going Up River," a few months ago, the documentary about John Kerry's Anti-Vietnam efforts. It clearly demonstrated, to me, the conspiracy to demonetize John Kerry in the early 1970's, which the Nixon White House and the current Swift boat Jerk, John O'Neill :freak:, were heavily involve in, to try to spin Vietnam as right, and Nixon as THE guy, that "got us out of Vietnam." :puke: I wish more people had seen that movie, though it wouldn't have made any difference, against this computer fraud.

I think he is and was a very honest man, but was probably a little idealistic in the 1980's. He might have thought he had seen the bottom of the well, when he started the BCCI investigation. I'm sure he did everything in his power during the BCCI and Iran/Contra investigations that the time alloted and the other 99 Senators permitted, but he ran up against a bigger, more powerful force in the VPOTUS/POTUS and the dozens of co-conspirators, who never faced scrutiny or the long arm of Justice.

I never meant to say that I thought JK was part of the Election Fraud, or that he had "crossed over to the Dark side," I'm just wondering if he saw the massive "Buzz Saw" he was up against, or if he was threatened or pressured by other "respected members" of the "business" community:eyes:, or is he hard at work, executing a well thought out plan to bring back the integrity of the U.S. Election process.

I hope it's the latter because, as a victim of 2 major Diebold "AccuVote TS" Election Frauds here in Georgia (2002 and 2004), I've completely lost faith here, unless some major changes are made to the Georgia voting :puke: process.

[merh]

152. Fair enough!

But I believe he hasn't lost faith or his desire to see the end of the BFEE and the actions of the BFEE on Nov. 2 have just made his resolve even stronger!

Never Give UP!

[spooked]

129. Remember KERRY'S NERVOUS LAUGH when he said

"sorry we're a little late, a little short"...

when I heard that nervous chuckle, I KNEW KERRY DIDN'T BELIEVE IT FOR ONE MINUTE.

HE KNEW when he conceded that he had actually won the election, but was helpless to prove it.

[McCamy Taylor]

132. The Important Thing Isnt WHY Does Kerry Do What He Is Doing...

....Kerry is Doing What He Must Do In Order to Be True To Himself.

The Important Thing is that we are all projecting upon Pres. Elect Kerry the reasons for him doing the things he is doing that we must project upon him in order to be true to ourselves.

I hope that clarifies my last two rather obtuse posts.

Now back to Dohickie's "I Believe" Thread.



:loveya:

"Everything possible to be believed is an image of the truth"

William Blake "Marriage of Heaven and Hell"

[maddiejoan]

133. yet another LOTR analogy

Just remember --Gandalf and Saruman were also part of the same secret society ;)

[bunny planet]

144. Good one maddiejoan.

I just love the LOTR references. They are disquietingly appropriate in our current circumstances.

[berniew1]

138. It seems the Dem leadership is afraid of the Repub Smear Machine

But letting them get away with fraud and suppression is not going to
help his image with the public. There is a solid case for widespread fraud and minority suppression in Ohio, Florida, New Mexico. If you understand the case, and make your points you can't be hurt by telling the truth. Thats the only way to fight corruption.

Documentation of the widespread Florida and New Mexico vote machine fraud and suppression is at: http://www.flcv.com/fraudpat.html

Documentation for Ohio is at: http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19

and http://northnet.org/minstrel/alpage.htm

[Up2Late]

156. God, I wish I was still as idealistic as you

:crazy:I guess you've never been forced to listed all day to Right-wing "Hate" radio :mad: or tried to watch Fox News all day, they can brainwash just about anyone with that crap.

You should take the knowledge of the facts that you have from here, and TRY to listen to "The Neil Boortz Show" for a week. Here's his web site to get you started. <http://boortz.com/>

But make sure your friends monitor you, and take your radio away when you start thinking like them.

:scared:It's scary how powerful the GOP Hate Machine is.

[Freddie Stubbs]

140. Neither. He thought that he lost and he said so.

No one one to take this man at his word unless it fits into their narrow little world-view.

[GetTheRightVote]

147. In the end, I have finally choosen to believe in the man I voted for Kerry

and Edwards, because I believe I was right then just I am right today. He conceded not knowing if he could prove election fraud but I believe he is still hoping to have something come out of it. I believe he is surprised that we are still fighting for it. Look at it from their point of view, hard as it may be, when I we fought for anything lately ??

I am sure he wants to be President and I am sure he was elected on Nov 2, 2004, put my life on it in fact. I do not know what keeps this faith alive in me but it lives on. They, our gov't officials were not expecting us to notice or jump in as we are I am sure of this as well.

But we are jumping in, we are showing our love for Democracy, we will demostrate thru rallies that yes we are noticing for once, we are ready to participate in our Democracy, we are up out of our homes, we will carry signs and scream at the top of our lungs, today I live and breathe the air of freedom so that Democracy lives as well.

[theboss]

153. He conceded because he lost.

There, I said it. Somebody had to.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

155. I'm pretty sick of reading this again and again in the face of all

...the evidence to the contrary. I find it hard to take statements like yours seriously in the face of 1000s of incidents of voter suppression, 100s of thousands of spoiled ballots, illegal lockdowns of polling places where votes were tabulated, illegal activities surrounding the recount, statistically impossible patterns in exit poll discrepancies in areas with e-voting that do not exist in areas with paper trails, 1000s of incidents of computer voting machine "malfunctions" and "glitches" that amazingly favored bush in about 99% of the cases, and so much more...

[Up2Late]

157. Thank You

My thoughts exactly:headbang:

[eowyn_of_rohan]

154. We've hashed this over for the past 8 weeks

over and over, thread after thread.

[Up2Late]

159. Over 150 posts

in just over a day says, People still want to talk about it:think:

[eowyn_of_rohan]

160. Yes, I see you are right, unfortunately

It just seems to be going downhill around here...

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the center cannot hold

[Up2Late]

161. I think people are starting to get discouraged

The News isn't breaking fast, like it was before Christmas.:evilfrown:

After the next 2 deadlines pass this month (Jan 6,2004 Protest and the 2nd Shrub :puke:Inauguration fiasco) I think it will really get dead around here for a few months.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

162. It's true about the news being so slow...where's Conyers, Kerry, Arnebeck?

...we need just one little victory but we've hung in there and given our all and kept up hope, step by step, for the past 8 weeks, yet nothing has really come to fruit. The Jan 6th event is the last one for which we can hold out hope, so it is a pretty gloomy situation.

But these threads like Senator so-and-so is IN! No, he's OUT! with all the resulting hysteria, aren't helping, nor are these posters who are trying to get us down with ignorant statements like "Kerry lost so get over it"...

I know I feel a little down from post-holiday orbit, on top of this, which made it so hard to get into the holidays in the first place...I dont know where we will get our momentum if everything fizzles out between now and the coronation. And we can't lose it, or else.

[The Gigmeister]

158. He conceeded because he lost.

He made a blow-out a game, and God Bless him, but he lost.

We could learn a lot from him. Hopefully soon, we will.

[European Socialist]

164. Kerry conceded because he was a candidate instead of a leader.

I hope he proves me wrong in next couple of days.