Of those Kerry voters on touchscreen with Default to Bush, over 40% lost

[berniew1]

their vote, in the many dozens of cases reported to the EIRS hotline
in Florida. Of the overall voters who didn't notice or didn't report that the switch occurred after initially showing Kerry, likely the percent of Kerry votes lost on these machines was even higher than 40%.
See EIRS reports in
http://www.flcv.com/fraudpat.html

Dozens of machines in several counties were reported in Florida, and similar pattern occurred in Ohio in counties such as Mahoning, etc.
and in New Mexico.

[Pirate Smile]

1. Why was it happening? I can't believe no one has managed to get

a look at the machines!

[fortyfeetunder]

2. Default to Bush...WTF?

Why in the hell couldn't it be to Write in candidate, or NO selection?

[many a good man]

3. Just an honest computer glitch

Happens all the time. Now just move along, move along...

[Merlot]

20. Honestly, if you were a computer

woudn't you default to bush?

[fasttense]

34. Not true Fraud, just a small error, not true evidence of fraud. Only

in America

[berniew1]

44. People in S. Florida need to get this to their Congress Persons

[rdmccur]

4. I am convinced the last election

was a total joke aka fiasco, ludicrous, maize of confusion and obscuration.

[sickinohio]

8. So am I - but my family tells me that I'm obsessed.

My husband tells me to "give it a rest dear", t's over" I hate that. I try to reason with them and explain how what has happened in this is election is out and out Fraud and that what has occured is going to effect them and my grandkids and many generations to come if something isn't done to expose the Bu$hCo machine for what it is - Self-Servant Criminals that all need to be thrown in the slammer!!

[bush_is_wacko]

13. I am lucky enough to have an entire family that is "obsessed"

Our economic situation varies wildly, from very wealthy to dirt poor, but we all AGREE , *Co. stole the election.(all, but one and he is in the dirt poor category, go figure. None of us talk to him at all anymore.) Interestingly enough the "wealthy" computer programmers in the family are THE MOST ADAMANT that election fraud is not only likely, it is most probable. "Give it a rest, dear," is EXACTLY what *Co. wants. they have seen and heard the voices around the world that are calling for Americans to wake up and take our country back! It has them a little worried. One of my relatives married a foreigner. I won't say what country, because the reality is he has worked and lived in so many countries, his birth place has no real bearing. He says EVERY foreign country, without exception, he has been to thinks Americans are insane not to see what is going on! In the UK, everyone realizes that Blue-bloods run their country and they can't believe Americans would allow them to take over here! They have been expecting American Patriots to come out of the woodwork and start a revolution for many years and are very disappointed we are not doing so.

[bunny planet]

24. Oh I am so jealous. My family just shakes their head and tells me to

get a life. I keep trying to explain to them that it is their lives I am concerned about. My husband is a Kerry supporter and would be very happy to see * taken down, he just doesn't have the time or patience to read everything I have been reading and following since the election, actually since the 2000 election.

[bush_is_wacko]

38. My hubby too, but I forgive him

cause he was working full-time and going to college for 4 years. Now that he is done with school and has a new job he is trying to read a little more about this stuff. He used to just nod his head and only digest about a third of the information I was repeating to him, now he's up to a little less than half. I have more time though so I can't hold it against him.

[sickinohio]

26. Hey - I agree with your whole family - and I'm jealous also

I will continue to be "obsessed" for as long as it takes. I will continue to spread the word of fraud that is taking place in our country and what the criminal administration is doing and what effects it will have on our family beginning now and for our future generations. I wil not give up. I want to see this adminstration fry. The whole lot of them!!!

We do need a revolution!!

[bush_is_wacko]

39. Yep, it's time for the revolution

and I think the momentum can be sustained as long as we don't just give up after Jan. 20th. * can't keep making these BIG mistakes without attracting attention, even from the bushites. To me, it sometimes feels like Vietnam on fast forward. The ending of THIS administration is ALREADY written in the eyes of the rest of the world. Bushitler will someday be a stain in this countries history too.

[flyarm]

16. ask your family then....

how they would feel if this happened every other time to them at the ATM machine!! or the grocery store..ask them if they would get over it if they were cheated by dollars!!!

seems many only get it if it cost them money ..not their vote!!

but eventually it will cost them money..but it will drip into their lives!! It wont be a tital wave!! but nonetheless..it will hit them in the pocket book eventually!!
fly

[sickinohio]

27. I agree it will hit the pocket book - I keep telling them - that

these criminals control the house, the senate, the media, the churches - they control it all - and their goal is to make the rich richer, the middle income and poor poorer. And if we as Americans keep continuing to go about our merry little way and do nothing, our country is in for big trougle (at least all us little guys are). Really scary.

[roenyc]

28. ummyeah, same here.

i am not very popular at parties! :(

[sickinohio]

33. you're popular at our party

:party:

[roenyc]

57. Thanks!!

:bounce: :bounce: :dunce: :yourock:

[super simian]

31. Never saw...

....Bu$hCo before, but it is so perfect!

You are right and hubby is wrong. Bring him a beer and go about your business. A coke will do. (This marital strategy learned from classic "All in the Family" episode.)

:beer:

[sickinohio]

32. How bout

3 beers? One for me and one for him and one for you!!!

:beer: :beer: :beer:

[super simian]

36. Toast!

:toast:

[GOPBasher]

5. My question is, how are they getting away with this?

I can't understand how they're getting away with this shit. This is still a democracy, at least on the surface, and it's driving me nuts.

[nofurylike]

9. they aren't. they've been caught and many are working on the

investigations and evidence-compiling.

i sure wish we could hope for some repubs having consciences to come forward for Justice.....
oxymoron?? so sad.

please keep on, all who are working to exhaustion for Justice!


peace!

[Ryder911]

18. I'm afraid that...

until the MSM starts reporting what has been going on, we will forever be people in the tin foil hats and nothing will ever be done. Perhaps Conyer's investigation will garner some media attention? It takes momentum, and although a lot of people are working very hard to uncover the facts, without momentum, we have nothing.

[bush_is_wacko]

17. Not really...

I hate to say it, but this country stopped being a democracy on 911. The goal was to take the money out of the hands of the newly wealthy and put it back in the hands of those that consider themselves American Aristocracy. Think about those scenes in Titanic where the American Aristocracy makes fun of Molly Brown because she is one of the "new money" crowd. The same thing is going on in this country and America needs to wake the fuck up and see it. Understand that these idiots have been pissed as hell that people with no "aristocratic" read into that in-bred, blue-blood, greedy, dripping with money descendants of ENGLISH background, had the audacity to make money and become successflu in THEIR country. GWB can supposedly be traced back to King George II. this is why Tony Blair backs him. He is a blue-blood himself! Anyone that has ever done business in that country can tell you that before any business meeting can start the English want to know your educational background AND any interesting lineage they can glean from you. It is sickening to realize this fact, but when GHWB was shunned for a second term by all of us peons, he set out with a plan to overthrow our government and that is EXACTLY what has happened. He had eight long years to let his contempt for American peons come to a boil and now he is reeking his vengeance on us!

[Vinca]

21. OMG, do I have a connection to Bush????

I can trace the title of my house all the way back to a land grant from King George II. Egads - I might have to sell!

[bush_is_wacko]

49. Don't tell Bush, he might just try to condemn your property

because it belongs in the hands of royals! Believe me, he really does think this way. He's not alone either.

[WhiteTara]

23. on the contrary...democracy died

on December 12, 2000

[bush_is_wacko]

37. You have a point there...

It actually probably died the day after we kicked GHWB out of office. He was that pissed, and I'm sure he began scheming within seconds of hearing of his loss. Hell he was scheming while he held the office of VP during the Reagan administration. I guess I cannot put a specific date on the when the scheming started, but 911 was the date that the scheming put a large enough dent in this society to keep the shit ball rolling.

[genieroze]

42. This crap has been going on for over 20 years. They have just

been more and more blatant about it. They are very dangerous psychos. * gave them the in they needed. Reagan used to give them lip service.

http://www.theocracywatch.org/

[bush_is_wacko]

43. I think it has ALWAYS existed.

When this country was initially formed the Constitution was meant to discourage poor under educated farmers from voting and or hearing the results of an election. They didn't have media to contend with. Farmers rarely went into town. Most of them didn't know or care who the President was and our founding fathers didn't have any problem with that fact. The man many credit with providing the words "United States" also wrote the 3/5th's amendment w/ regards to "free" black men. There has ALWAYS been an American Aristocracy in this country and they have always been more abundant in the Republican party, but too many of us are unwilling to see it. The current administration just wants all of us peons to accept it and move on. They truly do expect us to shut up like good little peasants and go away to live our humble lives without bothering them. They have NO intention of even acknowledging our existence. There have been a few time in our history when Liberal leaning people made great strides and became successful. The Clinton Administration was the catalyst for many liberal leaning dot.com companies to make a lot of money. Meanwhile, these greedy little bastards sat around making plans to stop the "liberals" from entering into their circles. It never ceases to amaze me how many people don't have a friggin' clue what REAL money says and does. I have been around a very small number of these types of families and I can assure you I am pretty accurate as to what they think of those who work for them. They care more about your lineage than your good intentions or your hard work. I am not talking about the "kinda" wealthy. I am talking about the always have been and always will be kind of wealthy.

[genieroze]

45. All these things you talk about wouldn't really bother me if these jerks

would just leave people alone. I don't want to be in their league, I really don't. I think hard work is good for the soul. These people are trying to murder us. Taking away a means to feed oneself and trying to control every aspect of your life for God only knows what reason is murder. I don't know "Absolute power corrupts absolutely"? These people are drunk with power and must be crazy to boot. They don't want us to be birds in gilded cages, they want us to be dogs that they can torture and beat for their own sick pleasure and to use as their own personal slaves. They are driving this country into economic slavery. They got theirs and don't even want us to be able to live. They are trying to destroy the middle class. At least the farmer had a way to feed himself and his family. These monsters are trying to keep us from feeding ourselves.

[bush_is_wacko]

47. Agreed and quite true...

The reality is, these people NEVER wanted to abolish slavery to begin with. They have now come to the realization that they can have slavery back if they don't distinguish one race from the other. They are perfectly happy to enslave us all. They don't want us to have access to health care, it makes us too uppity. They don't want us to advertise birth control on TV because that would give us power over our bodies, but we can advertise Viagra (With a Republican Representative, Bob Dole, leading the way.) Feed us Viagra and don't allow access to birth control? Hmm, sounds a bit like the Catholic Church which increased it's numbers and it's money by allowing good Catholic mothers to breed away! It also sounds a bit like the old slave master putting his biggest, hardest working, most loyal slave out for stud. Everything they are telling us to do, go to college, buy a home, start a small business, etc. PUTS MORE MONEY IN THEIR POCKETS. They control the banking industry and the commodities industry. Middle class America is about to join the ranks of the American Indian, who fought their enslavement to the death: the African American slaves, who HAD to fight alongside their masters to keep themselves in slavery OR ELSE, and the indentured servants of all races who had to endure years of abuse and buy back what they should have always had...FREEDOM.

It is my fervent wish that Americans wake up NOW, before it's too late! If we won't wake up, we might as well leave because our slavery will become more and more drastic as long as we allow those in power to stay in power. If we can not elect our representative government, we are doomed!

[berniew1]

6. Since its known and affected huge number of votes, why no investigation?

When widespread vote machine fraud is clear and well documented, the precincts known, and machines in many cases, and some voters who had it happen, and poll workers said it was going on all day;
why hasn't there been a formal investigation???
Is U.S. unconcerned about how people vote and who really wins elections.

[fooj]

10. I can't wrap my mind around it, either!!!

It's a scary phenomenom...OBVIOUS FRAUD YET NO CONCERN shown by media, most elected officials...it makes your head swim, doesn't it?:crazy: Something has got to give here! I'm hoping that Thursday will answer many of our questions!

WHAT ARE THEY HIDING???:think:

[nofurylike]

11. there are numerous investigations going on. n/t

[berniew1]

14. By who?

[roenyc]

29. well we are AMERICA!

we spread democracy, for heavens sake how would it look if the good old USA couldn't get its own election fair. i mean its almost funny here we are talking about dictators and votes and who gets to vote and our leader is a freaking king! non elected twice. its its laughable the hypocrisy of it all. even the chimps buddy Vlad had some little remark about it the other day. so. there ya go. same reason why 9/11 is still a secret.

its for the good of the country. :puke:

[Eye_on_prize]

54. Just maybe His Fraudulency dug his own political grave on Nov 2nd...

"...ahh can't fool me again". Go Stealth Team Kerry!!
The farcical proportions of this specter are quite staggering huh?

[rdmccur]

7. I think the touch screens in some of those locations also defaulted

to other Repub candidates (e.g. US Senate, Congress seats.
When I touched for Romero (D rep) in Bernalillo cty in NM,
Wilson (R) got checked. I corrected this (I hope) but I wonder how many might have not for whatever reason.

[berniew1]

22. A lot defaulted to Martinez from Castor in Florida U.S. Senate race

see
http://www.flcv.com/fraudpat.html

also some county commission races, etc.

initiatives,etc.
EIRS cases reported can be seen there

The poll workers were also aware of this and said it was going on all day. And the counties got lots of reports, not shown on this site.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[New Earth]

15. hmmm

welcome to DU :hi:

[Stevepol]

19. Actually there can be no proof of anything with touchscreens.

They are immune to proof of any kind except just statistical comparisons based on exit poll and pre-election polling data. You can't audit the touchscreens, you can't see the source codes (court order because it's "proprietaary"), you can't recount. All you can do is meekly accept what the machine says, i.e. what the internal programming of the machine says is the result. As for the scanners, you have the paper, but you can't recount or audit unless the result of the election reaches a threshold of a small enough % difference, and this doesn't happen if the machine is rigged to give a desired result.

So what do you mean there's no proof? What to you would constitute proof and how do you propose to obtain it?

[berniew1]

25. Thats wrong; you don't know what you are talking about in this case.

The machine switching is documented down to the precinct and machine level. Turns out there was a big paper trail this year because of the big non-partisan group election indicident reporting system,
EIRS, at www.voteprotect.org
Thousands of election irregularities called in by voters in each of the big swing states, and documentation of what happened down to machine level in many cases. And there were also thousands of reports to the counties, and the poll workers said theiy were aware of the switching going on all day. Where it occurred is known, how it was done is known, and there aren't many options on who had access to program the machines.
The only problem is lack of investigation and followup by "authorities" who may have been ivolved in some cases. But affidavits from voters and experts and officials have already been obtained by some involved in the recount investigation.
Evidence isn't the problem here.

[1democracy]

35. Can you convert the 40% to number of votes?

[IStriker]

40. This is what I find so impossibly frustrating about DU...

There is no way to tell who is telling the truth on here. One thing I do know from asking election officials in PA because I've been voting with touch screen for a number of elections is that there is no paper trail and you can recount to kingdom come and the first, last and middle totals will remain the same unless you add things after the first count. There is nothing to stop me from voting, or not voting for that matter, going home and calling up the election officials or reporting to an election website, complaining that my machine did not function properly. If a voter did not complain on the spot at the polls when the machine malfunctioned then there is no proof of anything. And please don't say, "Who would make a false report?" A group of people who decide in advance of an election that they want to undermine our election system for their agenda.

What is "machine switching?" Have never heard that term.

[demodonkey]

48. PA Voter, please DEMAND a voter-verified paper ballot...

speak with your election officials and demand that they produce SOMETHING they can actually recount if needed.

I am in PA too, and don't forget we share the same Presidential electors (unless/until we get rid of the Electoral College). And we both vote for the same state-wide offices. So if you don't have an AUDITABLE voting system, your area is screwing around with MY vote, too.

And that's no false report, that's the truth.

[IStriker]

59. I can't see PA or any state unplugging those e-vote machines...

and going back to the old paper ballots which I much prefer - the ones that you black in the circle (just like all those multiple choice tests we took in school.) They are quick to count once the polls close with a scanner and if someone wants an eyes on count, the paper is there to see which circle is blacked in. I told my county and precinct election officials (Democrats run the county) since they bought this stuff that this was not an improvement, but they think I'm a paranoid wingnut or someone unable to adapt to new things. They are very proud of using the federal money to buy these machines and have no plans to buy printers or anything that would leave a paper trail. I hope you have better luck than I have.

[demodonkey]

60. My own county has not bought yet, and is worried about the issues, so...

that is a good sign in my area. Maybe we need to start a PA Voter's Rights organization or something (like CASE Ohio, maybe CASE Pennsylvania?)

I myself am a precinct pollworker (many years) and I do NOT want to become the patsy of Diebold or ES & S or whatever. I actually thought about quitting (and maybe even quitting voting) if they get these paperless machines, but now I want to stand and fight.

We also need a state law in PA requiring voter-verified paper on all machines. Other states are getting this through (even OH!)

How long have you had the DREs? What county are you in? (PM me if you don't want to post)

BTW, the recount in OH showed there are problems with the optical scan machines also. Things CAN possiblty get hacked or messed up at the central tabulator. (But that can happen ANY time a computer is involved.. hmmm)

[emlev]

30. Please explain how you came up with the 40% figure

Thanks for your continued amazing work.

[berniew1]

46. From the EIRS cases in Florida that reported their vote switched

Most didn't know about the election incident report system, but of those that did and reported it, there is documentation of dozens of precincts in several Florida counties where this occurred, by precinct and machine in many cases. And of those who observed the switch, over 40% still lost their vote. For those on those machines that didn't check the review screen and catch it, the percent lost would be 100 %. And for all voters who voted on those machines, somewhere in between.
The EIRS cases are found on the web site.

Similar reports in Ohio and New Mexico, where same problem occurred.

[emlev]

56. Am I understanding this correctly?

That 40% of the voters in the EIRS sample (which I know is self-reported and not representative) who noticed that their vote for Kerry wasn't registering correctly were able to tell that nothing that they did succeeded in allowing them to vote for the candidate of their choice?

The surprise in this for me, with all that I know about the issue, is that they were able to *discern* that their votes were lost.

[genieroze]

41. This was no freaking glitch, this crap was intentional. eom

[ihelpu2see]

50. isnt this a marketing point for the touch screen voting co.

no undervote, that is why it has a default... but as someone else has posted, it should not default to an acutal candidate???

I can only hope someone steps up and contests the electoral vote, all the Repug. talking heads are pissing themselves over "How are the Dems going to become more moderate?" WTF how about the loon in the White House, whose going to reel his excuse for a brain in???

[berniew1]

51. With Default to Bush, there wouldn't be the usual number of undervotes;but

they compensated by having some machines defaulting to blank. These were observed in the EIRS incident reports in both Ohio and Florida.

[Truman01]

52. You know, If I had access to the code and I was going to do this..

There wouldn't be any indication on the screen for people to complain about. Doesn't that seem a bit obvious?

TC

[O.M.B.inOhio]

53. A mistake from a skeleton crew?

Speculation, of couse, but I did work for a company that did hospital room menu-based information delivery. They'd been at it for years, but still things popped up that they didn't expect to be seen, errors they thought they had licked and had tested OK, but when installed, the phantoms came back. And they didn't have to keep staff low to minimize risk of whistleblowers. So to me, the "too obvious" argument isn't so strong.
(And, no, my old company isn't still in business)

[Truman01]

58. You could be right, I'm just saying, on one side we give Rove

this unbeliveable smarts to pull of a nationwide fraud to steal the Presidential election, but on the other they are too dumb to just put it in the counting software where the voters will never see it.

Just strange to me.

TC

[O.M.B.inOhio]

61. agreed. n/t

[GetTheRightVote]

55. Thank you for the posting & spreading the info to us lessor beings,

I love to have as much info to discuss with other uncertain citizens. I am always amazed at how happy they are to get the information, many smiles.

:kick:

[Pam-Moby]

62. What bothers me

We know it was by design that Porgie was the default so that if someone made a mistake it would automatically select him. Also in some areas if you selected a straight Democratic ticket, it would register something else than a vote for Kerry. We need to get to the bottom of these scams!! Someone should be made example of so that in the future this never ever happens again!!! But for now investigations should take place and check all of these known problems to be able to record the votes correctly!!!