Post-election psychological trauma should be confronted and dealt with

[Used and Abused]

In the beginning, the posts that suggested that Kerry might still be inaugurated gave me tremendous hope. But two months have gone by and there is no logical evidence that suggests or even gives us the reason to hope that Kerry will be inaugurated this month. Anyone who still chooses to believe differently is in deep denial; and please don't take this the wrong way--but I think it's time to start meeting with a counselor who cares and is supportive.

Two months ago, it was hard to accept that Kerry gave up on us--but that is in fact what he did. He is now prancing around the country saying he lost because of the "war vote" etc. There is no hope for a Kerry inauguration, and no Dem senators are going to contest the inauguration when Kerry himself is going around talking about why he lost the election. Besides, these are the same senators who remained quiet in 2000 amid tremendous proof of vote fraud. And the same senators who gave * the power to go to war. I really hate to sound so negative, but I think it'll be easier on all of us if we start dealing in reality.

[jus_the_facts]

1. HA....I said all that BEFORE the election.....

:eyes:

[zapped 1]

2. can't deal with reality...

...if you don't know what it is. You don't KNOW that no senator will stand up. Why not stay positve until January 6/ (and beyond)

[Used and Abused]

7. and beyond??

OK, maybe I can stay curious for 3 more days. But how will your body deal with the 99.9% certain inauguration of Bush after keeping your hopes up for so long? If Jan 6 is the day that you gain closure, that's fine. But still hoping beyond that time is just plain unhealthy. I'll be watching and waiting like a hawk for Bush to fvck up, which I know he will. At that time, the Dems had better be ready to call for impeachment.

[righteous1]

21. I believe you can be hopeful and still be realistic.

The chances of anything happening that would change the result are very slim indeed but you never know

[Walt Starr]

25. Okay, say a Senator stands up. IT WILL NOT CHANGE A THING!!!!!

That's the political reality. That's the fact of the matter. The only way to alter the outcome is for Republicans to get on board and that simply IS NOT HAPPENING!

[insane_cratic_gal]

29. But it will test

The truth of democracy.

That's enough for me, to keep charging hell.. even if they don't i'm still charging ahead. My ideals are not determined by what congress does or doesn't do.

[Walt Starr]

32. You are forgetting political reality

Political reality is that the cost of standing up results in no change whatsoever, ergo, it is political suicide.

No Senator will commit political suicide.

[insane_cratic_gal]

35. Not true

You have to remember where the base of dems are from: BLUE states!

why do people keep buying into political suicide theory?

It's political suicide to not contest in my honest opinion

[Walt Starr]

38. I guarantee you, any Democrat who contests

will lose to a Republican next time, IF they make it through their primary.

[whometense]

102. Ted Kennedy??

Are you out of your mind?? Get serious.

[Sundemocrat]

41. yep

too risky

[bunny planet]

33. Shouldn't you only post one nay-saying thread at a time. More than that

is bad for your health.

[fasttense]

3. The article about him losing the election

because of the "war vote" is an article written back in November. It is designed to do just what it did to you. Make you think there is no hope.

[righteous1]

5. No actually it's not. It's designed to sell books. Evan Thomas's

book on the 2004 election to be specific. They are hyping it because it's coming out in a few days

[fasttense]

9. OK so it sells books and takes away your hope.

Just two happy outcomes for the price of one.

[whometense]

103. No kidding.

Evan Thomas is a creep.

[insane_cratic_gal]

4. Not giving up

I'm not going to turn my back on democracy, even if the masses believe no one has their back.

I'm not going to give up on national election reform.

I'm not going to allow my vote being bought by the largest bidder or bipartisan company. My vote isn't for sale.

I'm not giving up on the ideals set forth by this party. It's what the DLC wants.

I'm not giving up on those who stood in line for 3 to 8 hours to cast a vote. Call me a fool or a humanitarian, but it's wrong to cast them aside because you feel defeat.

I'm not giving up, there is always a ray of hope, the impossible only means difficult yet possible to me.

That is my reality. Hope diligence and determination

[KaliTracy]

6. insane_cratic_gal....I'm with you! n/t

[il_lilac]

17. NGU

Thanks for your post! I too owe it to those who stood in line and hoped to change the destructive path we are on. Till 1/6 my job is to stay hopeful, fax, call, write Senators and pray hard. 1/7 I'll do whatever needs to be done next. If we give up they win without a fight. I too believe the impossible just takes a little longer. Good Luck to all of us!

[Selteri]

18. Not to worry

The recount was as much of a joke as the election looks.

[SueZhope]

22. insane_cratic_gal you got that right!!! n/t

[The Gigmeister]

8. Some people just aren't cut-out for POLITICS!!

I've been following politics fairly closely since Reagan first introduced us to union busting and fear-mongering.

I've seen us win and I've seen us lose. And you know what? I'll see us win and I'll see us lose again.

The current Idiot in Chief won this election. We made it close when we shouldn't even have been in the game, but we lost. It happens.

You know what else?

The Chimp is not going to turn this country fascist, he's not going to cancel elections, he's not going to intern liberals and he's not going to send Rove to DU in order to infiltrate us. Regardless of all the breathless retoric you read here.

He's going to serve his 4 more years, we're going to work to keep him from doing too much long term damage, and then there will be another election. I strongly suspect that by then, the American people will be tired of the pukes and we'll win. We may not, but I suspect we will...That's the nature of POLITICS!

Those who can't grasp these simple realities don't need counseling, they need to get the hell out of POLITICS because they quite obviously can't handle it.

[fasttense]

11. Your first assertion is wrong.

The idiot in Chief rigged the election the evidence is there, no one wants to admit it. But hey you can pretend you still have free elections. You can pretend that maybe the dictator will let you win some time, in the future, when no one cares. Get over it. America did not have a free election and probably will never have one again. Face that fact and move on.

[The Gigmeister]

13. Tinfoil theories do not win future elections...

...learning from our mistakes, strong candidates and outstanding ground games, and a little bit of luck do.

[KittyWampus]

28. How Are You Going To Win Future Elections With GOP Owned Machines

the foolishness on this threads makes me sick.

And I'm not thinking about Kerry getting Inaugurated.

[The Gigmeister]

39. GOP owned machines = The BOOGIE MAN.

Again...The Boogie Man NEVER DIES!

And that means some will NEVER accept reality, learn, move-on and WIN the next time.

It's a self-fullfilling, losing prophecy...

WE CAN'T BEAT THE BOOGIE MAN!! WHY EVEN TRY???


That kind of follishness makes ME sick.

[KittyWampus]

43. Boogie Men? Well, Since The're Numerous Reported Instances Of

problems with said machines all favoring Bush over Kerry...

Furthermore, we either do get rid of machines with secret code built by partisan companies for profit... or Democracy perishes.

You need to get informed about electronic voting.

[The Gigmeister]

44. I am informed. But I'm also a Realist.

[flyarm]

45. not much of a realist!!

if you were a real realist , you would know we don't have a snowballs chance in hell of ever winning an election or having our democracy intact with fixed voting machines...from a realist in florida who has now experienced 3 stolen elections at the hands of those who are best friends with the voting machine makers!!

fly

[The Gigmeister]

49. I'm also not a kook.

[flyarm]

79. oh and i was a poll watcher..i can tell it the smell ....is rotten

oh and by the way..i was a poll watcher and i can tell you a thing or two about intimidation to me as well as voters here in fla...
p.s. i was also a tester after the election...we tested the machines for mistakes..a group of ten of us were called and asked to test the machines in a controlled testing....

the test was done with random papers set up to vote from...it was conducted like a real election...we began on time like a real election...well whoasssssme..
the first 3 peprs in my stack were for kerry..the first time i entered the vote ...it took me 3 times to get kerry to show up..each time i pressed kerry ..it came up bush!!

the second paper it took 5 times to register kerry..5 times!!
the third time ..we had observers watching us put the votes into the machines..verifiers...the 3rd paper ..remember this was random votes we were putting into the machines...the thrid time i asked the verifier to put the votes into the machine...again it was a kerry vote...and it took the guy .9 times ..yes 9 times ..to get the kerry vote to show up on the machine...the other 8 times..every time he pushed kerry ..bush came up!!

the next paper was a bush vote...it went through perfectly!!

this was all done on tape..and recorded!!

there were 5 machines tested ..chosen randomly from soe warehouse...

and the next 4 votes were bush votes that there was no problem recording into the machine!!
this testing went on for an entire day as if it was election day..we had stacks of voting papers and we voted them as if we were voteing for ourselves...on election day....


if you don't care that this occured..well thats your perogative..i do care..as this occured to me at the real primary in march..when i was voting for real!!
and it occured numerous times while i was a poll watcher to other real voters!!
it bothers me a real lot!!

ps i didnt call you a kook..i would never do that...but neither am i ..i have been out there in the trenches doing the work!!
fly

[genieroze]

81. Do you have this hard documented? Does Conyers know about this?eom

He did play a role in the Nixon impeachment.

[flyarm]

100. i don't have it but someone does!!

i did not realize that bev harris was there very early before i got there until it was in the paper..but to make matters worse..the papers said everything ran smoothly and that there were no glitches!!
i was leaving the next morning on a cruise...so i could not do follow up..but bev harris was somehow involved..but i signed the sheets that were improperly registered bush at first..i insited on signing the sheets and writing on them what happened...and i had the guy who was my verifier sign the sheets as well!!But we were simply volunteers for this excersize..i could take nothing out of the room..but it was video taped..i insisted on it after the first sheet of votes registered wrong..i would not do the vote without the camera rolling after the problems the first time..and i made sure it was very clear what i was voting for the second go round, and the third time i had the verifier do it as i have long nails and i wanted to make sure it wasn't my nails making the mistakes...but for him it registered bush 8 times before kerry would come up..
the people running the test should have contacted conyers...i dont know if they did or not...i was asked by our sec chair and dec chair to go do this...as i was a delegate and a pollwatcher..and they knew they could trust me..as it was secret until we did the test...but i assure you after doing the test..i was not a happy camper!
because the same thing happened to me during the primaries for real...i was voting on different amendments and i was voting no on 6 of them and they all came up yes...and i called the soe and i called glenda hoods office in tallahasse screaming..
thats why i voted absentee for the general election..but that prompted me to become a poll watcher to make darn sure people had the right to vote and have their vote counted....so when i had this happen in this test i was furious and i made sure every t was crossed and every i dotted.,..and made sure i signed the papers...and wrote notes on the papers we voted that the votes counted wrong and how many times!
i did not know who i was doing the test for before i went to do this test..and i did not know bev was involved until the next day when i read about it at the airport flying out of town..i never saw her there!!

fly

[insane_cratic_gal]

46. Did you forget

Moderate and DLC champ?

You don't have to agree, with those of us who believe there is the a great chance this election did indeed include fraud.

How much do you know about the companies?

How much do you know about their testing for elections? How many were preformed? Do you know the brunt of their tests include POST (power on self test) just boot it up.

How much do you really know Meister?

It's great that your being rational about everything, but isn't there a small part of you then ponders the possibility?

[SueZhope]

76. Who determines what reality is ...???

I have learned that the game of politics has more to do with spin and marketing then reality, perhaps if reality had any thing to do with it we would not even be talking about this.

Bush would have lost in a landslide and all the pre election polls would have reflected that , the the election would have been harder to steal in such a case.

[Pacifist Patriot]

12. I agree with much of what you say, except....

my concerns regarding electronic voting. As long as we cannot ensure a transparent election and prosecute those responsible for demonstrable voter suppression than we'll have far more losses than wins. I have no problem with fighting hard and taking a loss now and again, but I want a moderately level playing field.

[The Gigmeister]

15. Agreed!

Nothing wrong with working for clean and fair elections. This is a non-partisan issue.

But building-up Boogie Men (We all know the Boogie Man NEVER dies!!!) out of kook conspiracy theories is counter-productive.

American elections have been flawed for years, and this year was no different.

[Pacifist Patriot]

23. But how do we know which are kook conspiracy theories

and which are legitimate problems that need to be corrected? Public awareness and investigations! I'm sure American elections have been flawed since the very first one, but that's no reason to accept the problems we're experiencing today. Time to separate the wheat from the chaff.

[righteous1]

27. I believe you will not see any machines in 2006 that do not

produce a paper trail, bank on it

[seabeyond]

55. i assumed.....ass out of you and me......after 2000

we would have done some cleaning up after four years.

i wont make that assumption again. especially as i listen to the democrats say it is a boogie man, conspiracy theorists and kooks. then for all republicans to hide there eyes from the ten hours in freezing rain standing outside. well hey. right now i dont know why you would assume there would be a paper trail

they got away with it in 2000

they got away with it more in 2002

get away with it this time, in the extremities they went to and the obvious suppression intimidation and machines pushing votes to bush

hey, what will we have. do tell

[genieroze]

84. A verifiable paper trail would be awesome. eom

[SueZhope]

26. thanks for explaining that

I was not aware that these are the rules of politics .
Does this mean that John Conyers does not get politics either,
should he "get the hell out"?

[The Gigmeister]

42. You're welcome.

And John Conyers is just trying to deligimize the Idiot. Which is fine by me and GREAT for us (Every little bit helps)...He can afford to do that because...

1) He's a politician for life and will never lose in his district no matter what.

2) He's not taken seriously on the national level and can easily be dismissed by the mainstream Democratic party.

[SueZhope]

52. I do not agree that JC is just doing this to delegitimize the Idiot.

this is a very good overview of why I think he is doing this.
This is not rocket science..... this does not add up to a fair election.

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1065

[The Gigmeister]

61. If he wasn't doing it for that reason, more would join him.

Conyers is a shit slinger with no fear of reprisal from the voters.

[SueZhope]

74. there is two ways to look at this , if more do not join him

there will be reprisal from many voters.
The media has done a very good job of not reporting the facts about
the voting system and the recent election .
We all know who has a vested interest in this kind of
non-reporting.

Perhaps if the media reported the facts the people would see
that there needs to be an investigation.


Thats why Congress must investigate not certify.:)

[genieroze]

85. Conyers is a shit slinger with no fear of reprisal from the voters

He sounds more like a Rethugnakin, that's their bag. I'm glad he's a crap thrower, we need more reps with gonads. At least the thugs show theirs, even when the are dead wrong.

[genieroze]

82. Not taken seriously? He helped impeach Nixon. eom

[bunny planet]

40. You've forgotten one little crisis looming in the world's future which

no politician wants to talk about, that's the concept of Peak Oil.
It's going to change everything and this administration thinks the way to solve that problem is endless war over the world's dwindling natural resources. I don't think free and fair elections fit in anywhere with their plans. I don't think we have the luxury of another four years to wait for the political landscape to self-correct.

We need an intelligent, truly compassionate and environmentally savvy, President who will tell the American people the truth and act accordingly and we need him or her sooner, rather than later. Of course we haven't got one in His Fraudulency. I'm going to keep hoping and 'working hard' for the next week and beyond that too, whoever takes office on January 20th. This administration has got to go.

[marions ghost]

53. Response to gigmeister #8

gagging on your post, gigmeister, will u kindly

1. define "win" as in "I've seen us win and I've seen us lose"
2. define "won" as in "idiot in Chief won this election."

Gigmeister, your rhetoric seems like howling in the wind after the realities of Nov 2, 2004. Your words seem really out-dated all of a sudden. The old version. We have crossed a Great Divide.

Won = Stole

If "that's the nature of politics"--then a lot MORE of us need to get involved in it. Quite the opposite of what u are saying. We have a mandate for change as never before.

Your rhetoric is all about knuckling under, status quo, the system is OK, we'll win agin someday...yada yada yada yuk
Wherever u are coming from in promoting this line (Dems and Pubs both do)-- it's not gonna convince those of us who ain't buying the Big Lie from ANYBODY. We need a support group but we dont need your kind of...uh..."counseling." :yawn:

Sorry, system fatally flawed-- defaulting to Idiots malfunction--
data lost Nov 2--writing the new version--Upload soon--please wait

[The Gigmeister]

64. Gag all you want. I'm into R-E-A-L-I-T-Y.

And as long as one stays in touch with reality, one does not need "Counseling".

And by keeping in touch with reality, one sets the stage for WINNING in the future, by not blaming the unbeatable Boogie Man as an excuse for not even trying.

[malatesta1137]

69. you are of one of those who can't handle it, Gig

You see it as a win or lose situation, as if the voters had the power to decide. How pathetic.

People were tired of pukes this time around and pukes still won. Theft is NOT the true nature of politics. Wake up.

[The Gigmeister]

71. Pathetic?

There is nothing more pathetic than a conspiracy kook who keeps chasing its tail.

[malatesta1137]

72. Pukes love to call fraud conspiracy

Makes me wonder about this 'get over it' thread.

[The Gigmeister]

75. Yeah, yeah, yeah...

When reason, logic and reality fail, call someone a puke.

Whatever makes you feel all safe and warm...

[malatesta1137]

96. at least you admit what you are

Kove should hire you (If he hasn't already)

[The Gigmeister]

97. LOL! Yeah, I've admitted it. You got me!!

Break the Prozac in half next time.

[meganmonkey]

10. Give us just a few more days before you try to

rain on our parade. You want to say 'I told you so' on Thursday if no Senators stand up? Will it make you feel good to be right?

I hope against all odds that you are wrong.

Why would you post this today?

What is your point?

[zann725]

87. My thoughts exactly!

No freeping allowed!

[garthranzz]

14. A post-election poem

I wrote this a few days after the election. I showed it to a few friends and emailed it to some politicians, Kerry among them. I just recently joined the DU, though I'd started reading the night of the election. Hence the delay in posting. Feel free to share it, though please do give credit. ("garthranzz" should be in quotes, because it's a pseudonym - some of you may know its origin.) Some of it still works; some of it is dated.

To John Kerry – A Thank You, While Fearing for America

In a time of darkness, you became a candle
and I thank you.
When the campaign began
“Johnny, we hardly knew ye” -
and the thousand days,
the sacrifice for the stars
have gone winking out,
electronically erased -
a thread of memory and a string of hope
unraveled strand by strand:

When the knight of chaos comes,
When the bald snarl of evil sneers,
When confusion bestrides the throne
Of flaming towers of incompetence
And we like goats slaughtered off a cliff
Glaze-eyed fire fall

Then huddle in huts of ashes hewn
Then reading runes and reading ruin
Then dripping blood from the silver spoon
Then hatch the hatred that it grew in
Then dun the dead across the dune
Then crush the corners of the moon –
Beware, beware the bearded flare –
Play the prop and pay the spare –
Sweet tithe the soul; for truth, forswear –

Belie the bubbled frothing foam
Mewling, sputter lisping home,
Trading iron fist for iron lung
Invent the air and vet the young.

Oh, let there, yes there will be an after time
A reaching back to the day before
That may be engendered in the snow,
The snowy jungle of the entangled mind –
Oh, we with baggaged thoughts must crawl among the vines
And tendrils, Divinely tough, of taught tautologies,
And so follow in amaze the monsoon trail,
Ablaze with light from the shimmered air.
Yes, a far-off day near at hand
When cliché-riven lies the land
And you, perhaps, a candle still
Outlasting all speechless wordless swill,
When a gentle righteous may yet be lit
In duty glow, for duty fit.

[DemonFighterLives]

19. Great Poem

Welcome to DU!

I am planning on waiting until after the 6th to start the next panic stage, but the way I'm going to heal is this:
Write letters to every politician that might listen
Any obstacle that can be put in front of the B*sh Machine should be.
When our Dems. quit voting for any clown that W puts up we will be gaining. How could they let the CIA be taken over and Gonzalez the torture ok'er be put in as justice head?
Pray for impeachment for any or all crimes committed against the US and the rest of the world.

[Karenca]

83. So beautiful

yet so sad.
You're a wonderful poet.
Thank you.

[garthranzz]

104. Thanks

Thanks. Please share it with others.

[madison2000]

16. You can post this when all the avenues of change have been closed

but posting it this week is just WRONG.
You are feeling negative, and misery loves company.
You can find reasonable hope here if you want to.

[EFerrari]

20. There is more than one way to deal with trauma.

Two very powerful ways to deal with trauma are 1) self-empowerment and 2) community service.

In actively pursuing the legal remedies and in helping others to engage in the process, we're doing both.

I don't here people here minimizing what happened on 11/2.

[katinmn]

24. Go Here.

http://www.tikkun.org/index.cfm/action/current/article/133.html

I'm going to keep working for change.

P.S. It's not just about getting Kerry in the WH.

[KittyWampus]

30. Your Post Is Full Of Misinformation. Kerry Isn't Going Around The Country

saying he lost cause of the war vote and talking about how he lost the election.

That you don't know that... says something in and of itself.

Secondly, MOST of us on this forum realise the chances of Kerry getting Inaugurated as next to nil and are now focused on exposing the Fraud which happened.

[bunny planet]

31. I've only got a few more days to remain delusional. What's the harm in

that. My best friend is a shrink, if and when I feel I've gone off the
'deep end' I'll let her know. Until then,the Reverend Sister Randi can be my counselor.
Geez, if you hate to sound so negative, then don't.

[FreepFryer]

34. There are an incredibly encouraging

number of discouraging threads right now.

Almost like we're on to something.

People - believe in yourselves, and your power to make change. It's the antidote.

[glitch]

80. It is good to see, eh? The flurry yesterday and today, very promising. nt

[ClassWarrior]

36. I'm dealing with it by doing my best to insure that...

...Bush** and the Radical RW pay dearly for the massive vote fraud they perpetrated Nov.2.

NGU.

[snot]

37. What wd be traumatic wd be to cease to assert what we know

[DELUSIONAL]

47. Oh just stuff it!

As stated by others -- the battle has changed -- this is still a WAR.

[seabeyond]

48. used and abused..............oh what a name, lol lol

hey, what is is...........the denial is nto seeing it in reality or truth or becoming a victim of any kind. cannot be used or abused unless you allow it. no one can do it to you. you can only allow it to be

what ever happens, will. whether i look or not. that is what i will deal with and experience when it comes. i dont need to predict the future, i may likely be wrong, why would i want to do that. i can see the truth, bush stole the election, we are a retarded country in extreme right now, and still be ok. wow, what a concept. not about being pathetic, it is about being in the now, seeing the good the bad the ugly. hey, maybe this is simply faith. a knowledge that all things have a higher. we chose how we want to experience it. that is hte world we create and what we live

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[righteous1]

51. You know this is an open forum with divergent opinions

Why don't you grow up and learn to discuss rather than have a verbal temper tantrum like a 5 yr old child

[Stephanie]

54. That is my opinion

And I'll discuss any way I like.

You might consider adding "self" at the beginning of your screenname.

[righteous1]

66. Not being able to "express" yourself without cursing and

attacking people is either the sign of a weak argument or a weak mind

[Stephanie]

68. What difference does it make to you?

You've already alerted my post - why are you still harping on it, Miss Manners?

*edit* And I attacked no one, except George Bush. Do you have a problem with that?

[seabeyond]

57. i remember you

on a thread i started and how you kept telling me who i was, what i think, and always wrong. and telling me what i was suppose to do and think. ya yaya

well hey, not going to happen. you dont get to. i am not that impressed with your information gathering process nor openness in looking at a situation without ego and wanting seen only your way

righteous

lets see. living in the panhandle of texas and in the mist of all repug baptists. used and abused and righteous. getting a certain feel in just the names chosen, .........

[righteous1]

70. I may discuss with you, I may even tell you I believe you are

wrong, but I will never ever curse you, impune your motives or question your right to have an opinion and express it here. That's the difference

[seabeyond]

73. righteous

surely it is clear in te original post, conspiracy theorists dismisses all facts and conversation. kooks and what else does the same. the end of conversation

where is there room for discussion in that. and then further for it to be in this room. all conversation is on election fraud and what is up with that. too come into this room, if you dont believe in the fraud, what sense does that make. except to challenge those that believe it. you dont want the information cause you think there isnt a possibility of fraud, and not knowing, i have to assume you dont want the facts at all, because you dont believe and dont want to hear.

so not getting why you come in here anyway, ........legitimate question. you have made clear you dont in anyway feel the election was stolen and we need to move on

[righteous1]

91. Honestly, I don't know. I have seen some evidence and am leaning

but not convinced yet. I just get very irritated with folks who talk which other in a civil manner. Someone see an opinion they don't like and immediately get nasty and accusatory curse them and act as if the only opinion that natters is their own

[seabeyond]

94. i think that is why a lot of people here were initially offended

by the post and then later posts. with the information givin there is strongly the possibility and in my view likelihood of theft. we know there was intimidation and suppression. that was visible for us to see.

the initial post was exactly telling us to let it go. that we werent allowed to draw our own conclusion. not living in reality. not mentally stable? that if we did have the opinion we did we were kooks. that it is just a boogey man, imply we are so stupid as not to see the real. pretty offensive stuff.

anyway, i agree. anyone that has qualms, or unsure or even dont believe there was fraud, cool enough in my book. just dont tell me what i am suppose to think. i dont do well with it

all of society wants to ignore their faults and point the finger at the other. i dont play that game. believe what you want. that works really well for me. and generally even if it is "stupid", wink, i wont be bothered, not my journey, tis the others. i do mine, you get to do yours

[Not a Sheep]

59. I never cease to be amazed at......

... how some people here get so incredibly bent out of shape, become overemotional, call names, curse and attack people who want the same things as them but have a different view of what's going on.

I really thought that we were better than that.

[mopinko]

56. i'll get over it when

IT IS OVER!!!!
we do still have a constitution that wisely has a mechanism to deal with just such a situtation. let's see if it works.
on friday, if we are still stuck with *, i will mourn. but there is still life in this body, and i will not say goodbye until it has breathed it's last.

[malatesta1137]

58. My acceptance came relatively fast

Not as fast as Kerry caved in, of course, but in about a week I was back to normal. I knew Bush was going to serve a second term.

I knew this 'covert plan' talk was pure insanity.

Kerry is not interested in truth, in counting all votes. He's interested in his political career and in possibly fooling voters and contributors again in 2008.

[emulatorloo]

60. Kerry's not "prancing," he's headed for IRAQ, and this is about MY VOTE

not Kerry.

It is about exposing Rove, Bush, et al

It is about machines that actually count votes, rather than machines that default to the latest Repug candidate.

I will never give up hope that we can make things better.

[Stephanie]

62. REPHRASED: I do not appreciate your PRANCING comments about Kerry

And it tells me all I need to know about your point of view.

If you'd like to see someone prance, take a look at the presumed Leader of the Free World, in the midst of an international crisis of epic proportions:



President Bush (news - web sites) looks over as first lady Laura Bush says goodbye to cheerleaders from Crawford High School, Sunday Jan. 2, 2005 in Waco Texas.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050102/480/tcra10101021627

[CoffeeCat]

63. I am betting on myself...no one else.

I know how I feel about the election. It was stolen. Our current administration is a bunch of thug criminal sociopaths.

That's the reality.

I can only control myself. I can't make a Senator stand up. And if a Senator stands up, there is no guarantee that something fruitful will result. However, if a Senator does stand up, the certification will be rejected, and the issues of election fraud will be thrust into the spotlight. A rejecting of the electoral vote, by the House and Senate, hasn't happened for more than 100 years.

This could be huge.

I am doing my part--calling my Senators, faxing them, staying informed and climbing many hurdles to be present on 1/6 in DC (My husband thinks I've gone bonkers, I'm reluctantly putting our preschool-aged girls in daycare while I'm away, I hate to fly, I'm spending our savings, etc). However, I feel this is important. I'm sending a message to Bush (I'm aware of your thuggery), and supporting the Senators who stand (You're not alone and here is "We The People" right outside the Capitol doors supporting you).

All I can do is control my behavior and hope that it makes a difference.

None of us knows what will happen on 1/6. But sitting around, complaining and accepting election theft--is not productive--in my humble opinion. Where would we be if women fighting for the right to vote--just gave up cuz it was too difficult? What if the Rosa Parks caved in to her temporary discomfort? What if the African Americans, who fought to be free--decided that fighting an unjust reality is much more stressful than resigning oneself to it?

Accepting injustice is not the American way.

I'm doing all I can to support our Representatives and Senators on 1/6. Beyond that, we just have to wait and see what happens.

Beyond 16--I also have options. Those include, never supporting a candidate who did not stand and continuing to speak out against Bush.

We are not victims. We are "We The People" and we can change the world if we so choose.

[seabeyond]

65. you go dude/dudette

kick ass. i am with you. whiners, poof. i have two little ones, ears so sensitive to whining., yuk

[Stephanie]

67. p.s. - NOR do I appreciate your patronizing tone

It's offensive.

[Pacifist Patriot]

77. I appreciate your concern, but referring an anonymous group of

people for counseling is more than a bit presumptuous. No offense, but you're hardly in a position to make such determinations based on posts on a bulletin board. I would suspect that for the vast majority of us, this board and the issues surrounding the election hardly constitute the bulk of our lives despite our varying levels of commitment to ensuring fair and transparent elections.

What you see of me here is extremely one-sided. This is where I go for updates, get ideas for activism and vent my frustrations concerning election results. My participation on this forum and DU as a whole hardly scratches the surface of my entire Self.

Thanks!

[New Earth]

78. you need to listen to some 311

YOU'VE GOT TO TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
AND LET GO OF REGRET
YOU'VE GOT TO BET ON YOURSELF NOW STAR
CUZ THAT'S YOUR BEST BET :hi:

[RevCheesehead]

86. Thank you, Dr. Phil, for your concern about our mental health.

I have to ask the obvious questions:

Why do you choose a screen name such as "Used and Abused?" It smacks of mockery, or perhaps projection.

>"Anyone who still chooses to believe differently is in deep denial; and please don't take this the wrong way--but I think it's time to start meeting with a counselor who cares and is supportive."
Why do you care or worry so much about what's happening with someone else? Do I have to agree with you 100%, and if I fail to do so, it's because I'm the one in denial? Again, it smacks of mockery or projection.

>"He is now prancing around the country saying he lost because of the "war vote" etc. " This smacks of mockery.

>"I really hate to sound so negative, but I think it'll be easier on all of us if we start dealing in reality." I doubt your sincerity.

[Alizaryn]

88. Used and Abused. I don't see Kerry" prancing around the country "

as being an important part of the whole picture. We can't begin to know the scenario that Kerry is required to play within the system, we can only guess. All I can do PERSONALLY is go with my faith in myself that judges him as being a person I trust.

The facts as I see them come down to these:

1.) If the election system is not fixed NOW....Forget bothering to ever vote again. Unless you enjoying playing a minor part in a farce.
2.) If our Representatives will not SCREAM, "STOP", now. If they do not insist on a REAL investigation and repair then we are about out of hope.

Everything we can do to encourage our Representatives to stand with us are not acts of those in "deep denial" rather acts of hope and survival. For me January 6th will be more then a day to bring closure in regards to Kerry. It is the day that will reflect whether there is any real hope left for our country as a Democracy.

[troubleinwinter]

89. Your original post is remarkably rude.

"Time to start meeting with a counselor" Who the fuck are you to make such a determination?

"Kerry gave up on us" Pure slant. He clearly believed he lost the election, but has since joined suit to examine evidence of fraud.

"Prancing around" Say WHAT?!!

"No Dem senators are going to contest" You have absolutely no way of knowing until 1/6.

"I really hate to sound so negative" Then why did you post?

You can STFU until after 1/6, and then "prance" around this board saying "no senator contested", should it come to pass.

[Stephanie]

90. What YOU said!

Thank you. The rude first post just begged for a harsh response.

[K3RRY1]

93. Yes !!!

I'm 110% convinced that SEVERAL of our Dem senatorz will rise to the occasion and Kerry will be inaugurated on Jan 20th. Anyone that believes otherwise is nuts !!!!!!

[seabeyond]

95. well i personally don t believe kerry will get in

i think we have bush. but, i think the election was stolen and that has to be brought ot lite.

am i a nut, lol lol. thinking your post is in jest

[Patsy Stone]

92. Perhaps Dr. Laura could help...

She could explain all of the psychological trauma associated with having been "used and abused." She could explain how that gives one a feeling of worthlessness and hopelessness, and a need to strike out at those around. Perhaps, through her guidance, a sense of hope can gain a foothold in an otherwise dark and stormy life. Or, not.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

98. cheese to go with whine

No, Kerry almost certainly isn't going to be innaugurated, unless there's a miracle. But we can still:
1) muddy the "mandate"
2) reveal corruption, which might even possibly lead to an arrest or 2
3) make them the "Party of Fraud," and make the label stick
4) make it harder for them to commit fraud next time
5) help to make sure a cleaner election, which of course benefits us much more than them, is more likely next time
6) continue to put in place and to utilize our own form of underground mass media, making the MSM less and less important

And that's reality, if you're willing to start dealing with it. By the way, assuming no miracle and * is re-selected, have you any idea of the new power we'll have to continue on? Instead of sore losers and conspiracy buffs, when there's NO longer ANY chance of overturning the election we'll be seen more and more as crusaders on behalf of the right to vote, without the PR albatross of a significant vested party interest. (Although, as noted above, several party interests will remain.)

[seabeyond]

99. dissident

before christmas msm came out calling us dissident. i took pride as a 43 year old mother with two little ones being called a dissident

you betcha. all you say. dont ignore. dont shy away from or feel powerless..........kick ass

[whometense]

101. No.

I refuse to listen to anyone who talks about Kerry "prancing around the country" and, for the millionth time how he "gave up on us". You talk about him in the same way NewsMax and Drudge do.

I'm no idiot, but I've known Kerry for 30 years (not personally, but well enough). He is not the man you defeatists describe. I have no idea who it is you are talking about. It's not John Kerry.

I'm not in on whatever is going on, nor do I think I should be. I am not in denial at all. I have faith in the man I voted for. I trust who he is. I trust his smarts. I trust his courage. I think it's up to me to support him, but I don't think it's my job to tell him how to do his.

We're all free to think what we choose to think. So I for one will be very grateful when people around here stop trying to state as fact what is in fact merely their own opinion.