Do your loved ones support your election-fraud activism?

[CoffeeCat]

This is kind of a self-serving post, because I'm having a bit of trouble right now with my husband understanding my commitment to the election-fraud issue.

My husband is a staunch progressive and he despises Bush. He even believes that Canaan and Well stone were murdered. However, he believes that anything short of moving on from this election--is wasted time.

He says he supports me going to DC. However, last night we had a long talk and he said he thinks that it's "absurd."

I'm wondering if others are experiencing the same type of stuff from family, friends and loved ones?

[McCamy Taylor]

1. Maybe he is worried that Bushies will have you murdered.

[k8conant]

2. I haven't told my *-loving husband that I plan to go to DC--

I'm planning to get a friend to go with me. My 12-year-old daughter says I should absolutely go. My 19-old son who campaigned for Kerry in PA (originally supported Dean) tells me to "get over it", but does check up on what's happening. My 15-year-old son says he's a Libertarian.

So here I am: voted for Kucinich in the primary, Kerry in the election, and mad as hell about the fraud and irregularities concocted to keep B & C in command.

[FogerRox]

3. My Mom remembers me rding my bike to the McGoverm office in 72

She loves me dearly and says you go boy---!!
[e-mail] come prptest in NYC @ CBS

[katinmn]

47. Maybe you got your passion from her?

:thumbsup:

[liberal N proud]

4. My wife refused to believe that this could happen in the US

It is more out of denial than anything, not wanting to admit that the Constitution and Democracy that we have all loved can be so easily threatened.
She has supported my involvement to a point, when I was asked about volunteering for the recount she did not say anything. I keep presenting her with undeniable questions but she will say, they can't get by with that.
I have not suggested any trips to DC at this point and I think she would go through the roof as it would be time off from work that I can't afford right now, that is why I can't make the trip.

My brother has called me unpatriotic several times and pointed out that I am the only member of the family that has not served in the military.
Keep your spirit high!

[mattclearing]

5. I've seen this sort of thing...it varies between...

either the belief that either the election wasn't stolen and it is crazy to think it was, or the other, which I'm also getting, which is, the election was obviously stolen, and it's crazy to fight it.

The latter is the one that scares me the most. That hopeless apathy is totally depressing. Thank God not everyone thinks this way.

[EuroObserver]

36. Be aware:

There are people on the "far left" here in Europe who are quite happy with the present situation: the stronger the "far right" becomes, so does by way of contrast the "far left".

Let's hold the middle ground. Please, no more civil war.

[alexisfree]

42. very good thinking ....

the higher you are more deathfull is the fall....}(

[Verve]

6. Ditto to your post! I'm having trouble as well!

My husband hates Shrub more than I do. He calls himself a disenchanted Republican yet I believe he's more of a moderate. Anyway, he supported Kerry 100%.

However, after the election he thinks I've become a conspiracy theorist and doesn't understand my interest in DU. My family repubs in a red state are bewildered at my comments and probably think I'm crazy! I can't talk to anyone about fraud anymore. Eventually it will come out and they will all say I was right. (Unfortunately, it might take 20 years for the truth to come out!)

I believe that the majority of people just don't want to look at the facts that fraud may have occurred. To do this, their idealistic view of this great country would have to change. I think that's a hard pill to swallow.

[The Doctor.]

12. I'm with ya...

My parents are the biggest problem.

My wife believes me, my kids are too young to care too much, but my parents couldn't let something like that into their world view.

I'm a disenchanted Republican.

My parents are staunch Republicans... too staunch.
They are also good debaters, but when I bring up points they can't reconcile through argument - they ignore it.

They think I'm a conspiracy nut.

This will all come to light one day- there are too many of us that are aware of this... WAY too many.

[Verve]

21. Agree! Let's just hope the truth comes to light in our lifetimes! n/t

[EuroObserver]

37. Yes, sir!

Middle ground...

[libertypirate]

7. My best advice... Be true to you...

Those who love you will follow, and understand. If they don't try and tell people how important it election-fraud is to them. Tell them instead how important it is to you, and most importantly why it is important that you see this issue through.

If that doesn't work tell them this.

I hope I am wrong, but I would rather be a fool in the face of the public then a coward who could have done something but instead stood silent.

[seabeyond]

17. you know what, in hte ugly of the election

when i was rantin and ravin and cussin and mad all the time, lol lol.........i was so exasperated with husband cause he wasnt informed and hadnt committed to kerry and didnt know that much of what bush had done. i told husband, this is important, this is important for our kids. it is their life i am fighting for. forget me, i will be just fine, i ma old, lived a good life will be fine, but we are talking about our 7 and 9 year old and their life. this is my job

that did it from there on out

plus i didnt go around rantin and ravin and cussin, and he started getting informed, wink

[EFerrari]

25. Wise words. Also: Remember our families have gone through

the campaign, the election, the aftermath and the HOLIDAYS right along with us. Let's cut everyone a big fat length of slack and try not to escalate or take stuff too personally.

[flyarm]

8. yes my husband supports me in this..

but he gets mad when i make a public spectical about the election in most public forums...but i don't care i do it anyway..he has learned to just walk away!! because one thing is for sure...i wont stop and i won't shut up!!

ohh i used to be polite..and i used to use decorum...but no more...see i have a mission...my co-workers were killed on 9/11 by this * cabal...and i will not stop until i have educated as many americans as possible to the murderers in this white house..so my husband has a different understanding..he has listened for hours on end to my other co workers and i speak about the crimes that were perpetrated against americans on 9/11...by the * cabal...
i took off the morning of 9/11 out of newark right ahead of ual flt 93...no dears..i will never be shut up again...i retired so i could go out and educate...and wake americans the hell up....and i don't care where i am and what anyone thinks of me...i have my american airlines co-worker angels on my shoulders and someone must be a voice for them..after all * stole their voice...i will forever re-awaken their voices!!

do i embarrass my husband..i am sure i do...do i care...not as much as i care about truth ..and the future of the nation i leave the children ..our legacy will be that we fought and we spoke out , and we did not accept this fascism..our legacy will be that we had the guts to speak out...and to do something about these criminals!!

my favorite quote when i do get disgusted and tired is the following....keep it ..write it down...and when you think you can not fight your family and friends any longer...

remember the jewish rabbis of germany supported hitler at first..because it was easier than fighting him!! sure it is hard..sure it causes fusses...but what are the alternatives??

i for one will never accept the alternative of supporting * or his crimes aganst humanity nor the destruction of my democracy..and i will speak out until these blastards are exposed for their failures and complicity in 9/11 and the murder of my co-workers and the innocent people who perished that day!...fly

Dissent

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
-- Margaret Mead

[Darkhawk32]

9. My wife knows it was bullshit, but my brother (a former Libertarian)...

thinks it's all tinfoil hat stuff.

He's a slave to the right-wing whoremongering media machine. If it's not on Fox or CNN, it just didn't happen. Sad really.

[KaryninMiami]

10. Absolutely- you are not alone. Believe me.

My 2 sisters will barely speak to me now. As soon as the election topic rolls around, they hang up on me or start to shut me up so I hang up on them. My mom, who believes that this is possible, has expressed concern that "this election stuff" has taken over my life", some friends think I am "too intense about this". I've heard it all. But I cannot let it go. It's way too important- especially after watching the film on The Dominion over the weekend from Cornell. We have allowed monsters to take over our country and I for one, am not going to be passive about it.

What's really upsetting for me however, is why, even when people are made aware of what is really going on, they sort of glaze over or throw up their hands and say "Well What can we do?". Why are the not outraged? Why does the fact that we can no longer VOTE IN AMERICA not enough to motive them to take action? How come it feels like it's just me who is screaming about this- sending emails, handing out flyers, booking fights to Washington to protest the inaugural?

On Saturday, I attended a party and ran into someone who had been a pretty high up elected official in my town- a Democrat and an attorney and someone I respect. I asked him what he thought about the election. His response was "well it appears that the country is going through a conservative period". I then asked if he'd heard about the electronic machines being rigged, whether he knew about Clint Curtis, whether he had heard anything about Ohio, etc. His response "Yes I heard about some of those reports and it does look like there was a bit of rigging and fraud. What really at this point, what can we do? It's over".

I had to bite my tongue not to scream or at least say what I felt in my heart- which was "HOW CAN A LITTLE BIT OF FRAUD BE OK?". WTF? Instead I said softly something about hoping that he would take the time to read a bit more about it and about my concerns about our loss of Democracy and moved on.

But, I cried when I got home. I cry a lot lately because it hurts me that we have come to this place in our country, that people are so involved with their own personal lives, that something a huge as this, does not impact them enough to want to do something. I cry over the sadness that our rights are slowly being taken from us and no one- or few of us, really seem to care.

Thank you for letting me vent. I feel better now!


PS: Feel free to write to me directly if you want to share more stuff- maybe this is a good way for us to work through this together...

[myschkin]

15. hm

How I said, they don't see the big picture. We have to feed them with the Exit Poll discrepancy, Black Box Voting and these things...

However, how did facism happening (at least in our countries)? I don't wonder about nothing anymore...

They are all mollycoddles. Also my relatives...

I think here's where's the chaff sift from the wheat. It needs intelligence + courage + idealism + critical thinking + ...

There is a large opportunistic stratum next to us and I hope we can affect them...

It's like a phlegmatic mass which is hard to move...

[SharonRB]

11. My husband laughs at me...

...but he agrees with most of it. He calls me his little subversive or little dissident. He also knows there was fraud, but just doesn't like to get involved. He's amazed at the amount of time I spend out on DU -- I never used to get on the computer at home at all.

I won't discuss any of this with my parents -- they'd think I'm crazy and gullible to believe all of this stuff really went on in Ohio, etc. They usually vote Democratic, but, I'm sorry to say, they voted for Bush this time. I worked on them all summer and couldn't get them to budge. They think Bush is better for Israel (which I disagree with) and they voted based on that one issue. My mother didn't like either Bush or Kerry, but I still couldn't convince her to either not vote at all or give the unknown a chance.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

13. I am very fortunate. My whole family, every single one is like

Minded about the election and their hatred of the sociopath. That goes from my parents (who are both celebrating birthdays next week.. Mom going to be 85 and my Dad 87) to my teenage sons. My ex-husband feels the same way too.

What I can't believe is the acceptance of the American people. When you think that the largest population consists of my generation of baby boomers, and we Know how criminal our government can be. Weren't we fed the lie of the lone gunman? Didn't we see our nation go to war in Vietnam? A war based on lies? Didn't we see a President resign because of illegal activities? Didn't we live through Iran-Contra? Yet by the time the 2000 election was stolen right in front of our eyes, most of my piers settled into numb complacency.

These people, and so many others have bought into all the lies the Sociopath is feeding us. The "official story" of 9/11 which if you research it, is really the conspiracy theory. The lies that led us into the war in Afghanistan and the war in Iraq. What is wrong with our people??? Why aren't they shouting from the rooftops that this has to Stop???

One of the major reasons is that not only do we have the Sociopath as pResident, we have treasonous Media that is in collusion. Until they start "allowing" the Truth to come out, people will continue to remain oblivious. That is what a powerful entity it is.

[fooj]

14. My husband is a REPUBLICAN who voted for KERRY!!!

He's been wonderful...although I think sometimes he wishes I'd back away a bit so that my hopes aren't shattered!!! I've called him over to the computer on many occasions and he is truly impressed by our drive and our passion for truth and justice. You never know...maybe one day we'll both be members of the same party!!! He believes we are fighting a moral and just cause! I wonder how many other repubs feel the same way!!!!
My best friend, however, seems to be oblivious to election fraud. Now this is very, very frustrating! I just don't think she is truly aware of the enormous implications this has...she's unfortunately one of many who believes that NOTHING will change! UGHHH!!! I've decided the best thing I can do regarding her cynicism is to lead by example! She's a great person...i just think that this is too much for her to wrap her mind around! Time will tell!
To all of the tireless warriors...KEEP THE FAITH! Without hope, we lose the courage to be!!!

"If you lose hope, somehow you lose the vitality that keeps life moving, you lose that courage to be, that quality that helps you go on in spite of it all. And so today I have a dream."-MLK Jr.



What are they hiding???:think: :think: :think:

[seabeyond]

16. surprisingly my texas business owner rich husband does

everything about him suggest he should reject all this like my two brothers and father and everyone else i know. he was so waiting for nov 2 so i would be out of politics and off the boards. he voted kerry. he was disgusted with repugs and media. last nite, i havent mentioned fraud much, we basically agree...........i said orange. have an orange shirt for him and oldest son. need one for me and other son. he says, take that shirt, i have another, just tell me the date.

that really really surprised me he would be willing to wear orange, going to all the businesses ect in repug territory on a work day. with a possibility of someone here knowing why he is wearing orange.

love my baby. he so takes care of me, lol

[musette_sf]

18. NO

My husband went batshit on me yesterday when I confirmed (as I had been talking about with him for days) that I intended to go to today's march and rally outside Barbara Boxer's SF office.

He was screaming shouting angry. He was on a jag about what if I got ARRESTED or CRACKED IN THE HEAD WITH A BATON. (Somehow the fact that I attended numerous marches in the 60s and 70s, and didn't get arrested or beaten, means nothing to him.) What if these "rabble-rousers" started breaking windows, doing property damage, etc etc etc. (Somehow the fact that I am able to remove myself from a group of unpleasant people on the BART, much less on the street, means nothing to him.)

You would think I was going to a 1950s civil rights march in Mississippi, instead of walking up Market Street in SF in 2005 in a LIBERAL city with a group of like-minded people, to form a presence outside the DEMOCRATIC senator's office, for a brief rally then dispersal.

As it is 10:30 AM local time and the march begins at 11, you can see I am not going. And as you can imagine, I have a lot on my mind today.

[seabeyond]

19. eeeeewwww, he won the arguement

lol lol. hm............

that is sad. sorry. betcha you do have lots on your mind. you will be there in spirit

hm

[musette_sf]

20. but not the battle (eom)

[Quakerfriend]

23. OMG! LOL! You are too funny, musette!

I can relate. My hubbie agrees with me and asks for updates on what's going on @ DU. But, I think he's getting a little nervous about how RABID I've become with my feelings about these great injustices to our democracy.

Honestly, I think he's a bit concerned about the fact that I will go out in the streets in a heartbeat. And, my kids want to join in!

I don't blame him for being afraid. But, we must act...for our own children and the rest of the children all over the world.

Lately, I've been awake at night thinking about what's coming and trying to meditate on, and be accepting, of what might happen.

[nashville_brook]

22. wounded optimist syndrome (or maybe he's just depressed)

everyone has a psychological survival strategy to deal with crises.

sometimes people who are the most optimistic -- who care deepest -- shut themselves down and turn away when the situation seems overwhelming.

we have found ourselves in a world of hate and fear (from the reich-wing), after winning TWO elections. yeah, i understand his shutting it off.

i'm wired differently. i dig in. it's not a "better" way to be, it's just *my* survival strategy.

[SaveAmerica]

24. It was iffy at first, now we're OK

My husband and I have always been on the same political page but between elections (00, 04) he had finished his degree at a school that required courses in religion. He started listening to the local Christian music station that had segments with James Dobson, etc. He mentioned abortion, what the bible says about it and that he was thinking about voting for Bush and I was floored (putting it mildly). Thankfully, after calm discussions about the futility of voting to preserve any religious morality when so many other things could cause the implosion of America, he started to understand the bigger picture and voted for Kerry. Recently I asked him if he thought GW would be considered the worst president in the history of America and he said 'no'. I thought we were back to square one but he said "he's never really been elected the president". A couple months and several eye-opening reports and web pages later, he understands better than ever. Yesterday when I told him about James Dobson's threats to democratic senators who don't fall in line as expected, he immediately wrote an e-mail to Dobson to inform him how wrong GW and Dobson have become for America. They can be taught! The answer to reversing their brainwashing is gentle but persistent education, don't give up!

[VTGold]

26. Yeah - I turn them temporarily and then they go out into the world and

get re-programmed.

[Jo March]

27. Hubby went from supportive to calling this all "political shit"

It's disheartening. He gave up because it's moving too slow. I just don't talk about it much anymore. We don't talk much anymore, frankly.

I'm hoping that I come out of this with my marriage intact. Some days - some days it doesn't look too good. :(

[seabeyond]

31. that is sad armheim

maybe you can hold onto he was supportive...........just moving to slow for him and discouraged now.

this last handful of years has effected me so. people say shouldnt effect your marriage, but i dont know how it wouldnt. if my husband continued with the repug thought and supporting bush, i dont know that i could have stayed with him. i would be having a tough time looking in his eyes. i would be questioning so much

really profound the last handful of years

wishing you the best. want to see you both allowing each others approach and feel on this, respecting one anothers style

[Jo March]

35. Thanks. He just feels that I'm charging at windmills

or becoming obsessed. I was thrilled that he was supporting me but now it's become quite lonely. I never wanted to fight this alone. I prefer to have him by my side.

Thanks for the kind words. I hope that things will get better. * is ruining so many things in this country. :(

[OKthatsIT]

28. My whole family depends on me to keep them posted

I send out emails all the time with links, updates..then they send it on to folks in their address books.

[BigBearJohn]

29. Unfortunately a lot of people are sheep and just want to sleep

I have the same problem with my family.
They'll say things like "you can't fight city hall"
or "don't make waves".
I have only ONE friend who believes like me and
he lives in Thailand. Oh well... I will do what *I*
can do!!!

[drpdx]

30. Mine doesn't!!!

I can't even really talk about it because she finds it "too depressing". It is very hard.

[Beth in VT]

32. My husband is supportive and sympathetic and yet

not moved to take action himself - it feels condescending. I think he feels helpless and believes the system/others will take care of it - if crimes have been committed they'll get prosecuted etc.

I think people are afraid of confronting this issue because of the potential for chaos and instability that it carries - they value stability and constancy over instability and change, even under imperfect circumstances.

Hang in there everyone!

[mdb]

33. They do here,

But why does he say not moving on (this moment anyway)is a waste of time? Depending on exactly what he means by moving on (which can involve voting reform or getting out the vote or something in this line)even if it were a waste of time, why would trying to do something not be better than doing nothing at all? Can't we all (if nothing is done) move on when the time comes (which does not mean election reform)?

To be truthful, I've thought the same thing (a waste)in the effect of way in protest. What I think about when we all talk protest is how far this this get any of us who and numbered in the millions worldwide protested the Iraq war? Still I feel the need to voice our objections and be heard.

[HEAVYHEART]

34. NO

Everybody around me pretty much thinks I've lost it and are worried about me. I don't care. x(

[mdb]

38. lol...

Sure taking out voting machines so voters will have to stand in line for 8 hours is just a conspiracy theory of suppressing voters.

[consciousobjector]

39. Thank you for posting this

I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one with a recalcitrant hubby...mine is far left and agrees that the election was fraudulent, but is so cynical..."fighting this is a waste of time", etc.

He thinks the only logical thing to do is "get on with our own lives" as if the election and the * administration has no impact on our lives! He rags on me a lot about me "wasting my time" and how it hurts him deeply that I spend so much time on this and not on whatever he feels needs doing (not political stuff)...It's making me pretty crazy and since we only have one car, I end up having to fight over going anywhere related to the recount and protests...I win sometimes, but I'm so sick of the bickering and marginalizing of my ideas...

if it weren't for this forum, I think I would totally lose it.

[BamaBecky]

40. Oh Yeah, my relatives think I'm drunk on conspiracy theories. To make

matters worse, they refuse to believe it because it's not on CNN! So I have looked for ways to break through the "media" thing. A very good book - "Into the Buzzsaw" is helpful.

BTW, I think they are major league dumb, and said so in a moment of anger. They have forgiven me in that they still speak to me. I think it's one of the most frustrating aspects of this entire mess. If they would just BELIEVE, then we could clean house in Washington.

[pauldp]

41. Some do.

My Mom and my wife do support this for sure, which has been great. My brother and sister are Repubs so I don't discuss politics with them because it gets too heated. I love them and take comfort in the fact that they know not what they do ... of course the same could be said of many Democrats.

[seabeyond]

43. take comfort in the fact that they know not what they do

that is the best way of saying it for those of us that have people we love that support bush. i love this. so gentle and nice in a respectful and loving way. i am going to borrow this, thanks

[Evening Star]

44. It's all about apathy

They have most Americans right where they want them. Sadly, my spouse is so interested in her projects, attempting to climb the ladder, and making a living for our family (along with me) she will not even listen to what is going on in the world today.

To her credit, she understands what I explain to her (voted for Kerry) BUT does just not want to be concerned with it.

TV Land and movie's is how she cut's it off.

She doesn't want to hear it or know anything about it.

Funny thing, serious thing, is she would "break her 2 son's knee caps rather that see them go to war for this

deceitful administration.

BTW, she is VERY good at what she does for a Fortune 100 company.

ES

[Evening Star]

45. Soooo many apathetic people out there

It has been sickening to me for a long time

Before the election this is the thing that most frustrated me.

256 mil people in this country

and only 115 mil voted

what does this tell you?

ES

[righteous1]

46. If they didn't they wouldn't be my loved ones.......just kidding

[Phoebe_in_Sydney]

48. at least it was your election

My family in Australia thinks I've gone absolutely bonkers for getting so worked up about an election in another country.

Iraq War/ George Bush/ American elections have become taboo topics at gatherings of my extended family because they think I've become unhealthily obsessed with these matters.

And this is in a reasonably leftish family.

I have one workmate who was as fired up about the US election as me -- he and his wife actually planned their holidays to be in Boston for the big night -- and afterwards toured around the north-east visiting friends for a week or two.

trouble was when he came back he was shocked to find I actually believed there'd been electoral fraud. His Dem supporting friends in the US seemed to have taken the defeat on the chin, blamed Kerry, or the party. He thinks I've become a conspiracy theorist who believes too much of what I read online.

:(

[earth mom]

49. My hubby called me a radical activist

last week with a look of total shock on his face! LOL! It's funny because I haven't done anything radical in the slightest! But I do care-a helluva lot! He was shocked because he thinks I changed overnight, but actually for me it all began in 2000 and has gotten more intense this past year and even more so since the so called election. I've been venting to him for months about * and his evil agenda, and hubby's been pretty good about it because he agrees with it all. But lately, he's more skeptical about the more extreme stuff like dominionism and the fraud issue and he really just doesn't want to talk about it much because he considers it all to be over especially in light on the fact that the MSM isn't talking about the election fraud. His attitude is aggravating! Aaarrrggghhh!

Then, I emailed a long distance casual friend a bit of info on the fraud issue-sort of testing the waters-and she sent back an airy little message that "life is short, don't take it so seriously, have some fun." I was annoyed because it's okay for her with her big bucks in the bank, nice stock portfolio and soon to be retired with no worries or kids-while in contrast, my life hasn't been easy or a picnic and some of my personal struggles are a direct result of *s evil agenda. Anyway, my friend is basically a nice person and talks the dem talk but keeps it on a shallow level, which makes me wary-hence my timid approach in the first place. In the end, I think I was more annoyed with myself that I even bothered in the first place.

All I can say is that I'm glad that I have DU as well as a couple of other forums that I can turn to when I want to talk about or learn about the things that really matter.

Thanks everyone for being here! :)

[Vektor]

50. Fortunately...

My husband is a Greenie, and my parents are staunch, die-hard, dyed-in-the-wool, true-blue, Boston Democrats. They are all 100% ready to send Bush packing. I am pretty lucky I guess...my family and friends "get it."

[WritersBlock]

51. Mine just wants to know if there's a DU Spouse Support Group.

I'm not sure he was joking or not when he asked me this last week. I apparently have been spending a lot of time here lately (hadn't noticed this myself.)

Actually, he's been wonderful. He put up with four years of my howling at the TV every time the smirk is on, and he held me while I cried like a baby on the morning of November 3rd because I felt like my country had just died.

As far as some of the rest of the family are concerned? Well, we're speaking again, barely. Just not about anything remotely political. It's very painful knowing that someone whom I have loved dearly from the moment of their birth, and still do, is now a strong * supporter whom I feel very uncomfortable talking to. The "uniter" has done a great job on my family. I would have hated to have seen what a "divider" would have done.

[henslee]

52. Ha! I am alone except for my mom who displayed every finger painting I

ever made on the fridge.