Anyone have a link to the poll stating 20% question the election?

[Carolab]

I can search but it may take a long time to find. Anyone remember? Was it Reuters? Gallup?

[complain jane]

1. I'd like that info too. Thanks for posting this.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[righteous1]

3. I saw one at 18% last week n/t

[gkhouston]

4. I saw a Gallup poll done for CNN on Dec 21st....

Here's the link. The percentage was actually 19%.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/12/20/poll/index.html

[Carolab]

5. Thanks!

That's pretty recent, 12/20. 19% believe there were incidents of fraud. That's almost 23 million voters (extrapolated to the whole).

[gkhouston]

6. and that's with crappy MSM coverage...

imagine what the percentage would be if Olbermann were on a broadcast network... or if Will's stuff got picked up by the Associated Press.

G.

[m.standridge]

7. Oh, MSM has picked up both--

they're just scared to stake too much on the exit polls versus election outcome debate until they can back up the indications of the exit polls errors with data indicating the general public is very unhappy.
Look at recent big time polls:
How happy are consumers? NOT
HOw optimistic are most Americans about coming year? NOT
What are Bush's Approval Ratings? 49%--"the lowest of any incumbent ever to be sworn in".
So, the MSM is dallying around with this, but they want to be sure it's not just a polling error. That's why they're still "analyzing" the raw exit poll data before releasing it.

They want to get this right The "electorate", after all, is composed of millions of people who are their clients (advertisers) customers. If the customers aren't happy, their advertisers will begin to suffer.

So, while it appears they're covering up something, it's just that they want to be sure they've got it right. That the exit polls weren't in error--that there was really election fraud. Once they release those raw exit poll numbrs, they'll be opening a door to the election skeptics getting into the MSM. Advertisers may not like it, so they've got to prepare the way a little and reality-test to make sure it's the election numbers that are off and not the exit polls.

It's a lot of money they're thinking about. They want to be sure their advertisers will be pleased in the longer run, and that the customers aren't going to be there, that the election results are displeasing to most people. Polls like "19%" think there was election fraud, don't help. But polls showing people/consumers are pessimistic about the future, and with Bush at a 49% approval rating, do.

[Carolab]

8. Amen!

As I noted on another post, it's become obvious to me that Kerry was trying to appeal to the same base as Bush (predominantly white, college-educated, married men and women with children). Why? Because those are the CONSUMERS!

[m.standridge]

9. by the way, thanks gkhouston for the link

that poll is the one where the MSM mentioned that Bush's approval ratings were 49%. Russert mentioned that at one point, one Sunday on MTP. I think he didn't mention it yesterday (1/2/05) though, on MTP. IT's been mentioned several times in the media. They've noticed it. IT's something that also backs up the theory about the exit polls.
The fact Rumsfeld is bottoming out, is also something to note. He's just a little over half as popular as he was a year ago.
AGain, on top of polls showing people pessimistic about 2005 and that consumers had become much more pessimistic, too, during the holidays, all point to unhappiness with the election.
The fact the MSM even was asking this question, "how many think there was election fraud?"--should also tell you something about the "scenario" I've tried to describe. Will they ever ask that question again? It sounds as if, based on the posts above, that it's been asked more than once already. That's interesting, too. Are they trying to compare, to see if there actually is a "pool" of people who actually think the election was fraudulent, but aren't saying. But if so, it sounds like--if above posts and dates cited are accurate--as if the later the poll, the fewer think outright fraud occurred. People are quick, I guess, to doubt themselves, and their own reactions, and don't want to appear "sore losers," especially during or going into the hoidays. That could be one thing the MSM might be thinking, too. We're running out of time, but if they did one more, now, it might show more people were skeptical about the results at least in Ohio--in fact, they might be surprised at the difference among people who think OH is questionable, versus those who think "the election overall" is questionable. Just a thought. Anyone for making a suggestion to the pollsters on this point? It'll have to be fast.

[Carolab]

10. Right again

If the consumers are unhappy with the current direction of this administration, then you've got a case. Why are they unhappy? They don't like the war and the idea of never-ending unilateral war, they don't like the way they are trashing the Constitution, they are worried about the economy, and they don't like this dangerous "morality play". I think the polls have been showing that. Also, I think people understand to some extent at least that the religious/Christian dominionist aspect of the neocon argument is merely a cover for them to abolish all kinds of government regulations and services to give corporations carte blanche, same as the "war on terror" gives them carte blanche to establish empire through military might.

[m.standridge]

11. thanks. reason I ended with "it'll have to be fast" is

that we may only have a couple of days, if the MSM sees enough to make them think enough doubt the OH results, it might be enough back up of the exit poll error theory, to get them to release the raw exit poll data. This needs to be prior to Jan 5, because that might tip the pivot as to whether a Senator stands against the OH Electors on Jan. 6.
"Do you doubt the overall election results, or do you think they were fraudulent?"
versus

"Do you think there was limited fraud--for example, in Ohio?"

Or alongside it. But how much time do we have to get this suggestion to them? They might even be interested in this, since they are consumer-oriented.

[Carolab]

12. Might be something for Zogby

he's been unhappy all along and he has been calling for a "blue ribbon panel" to investigate. He can mount a quick on-line survey. Many of his questions fall in line with unhappiness over the current direction, approval of *, etc. He could add a question about people's belief in the exit polls and the veracity of the election.

[gkhouston]

13. You're welcome, but it was a quick google...

I remembered seeing this poll reported on CNN headline news (damned near dropped my teeth at the time), so I knew it had to be Gallup. It was amusing how they dropped in the 19% figure after stating a bunch of the other statistics... sort of a "by the way, I'm radioactive" moment. Maybe they thought our eyes would have already glazed over after all the other percentages. It's worth noting that the CNN/Gallup polls done prior to the election skewed Republican so the 19% may be a *low* figure!

It is interesting, though, that the MSM has picked up the "Bush's low approval ratings" story. The week after the election, they were all set to canonize him and that seems to have evaporated. I guess the aroma wafting eastward from Ohio has reached their haughty nostrils at last...

I'm still waiting for anyone other than Keith O. to mention Conyers' challenge. All I heard on NPR this morning was talk about Alberto Gonzales. We may need a senator to step up on the 5th and announce his/her intentions if the Dems want the MSM to pay attention to what they're planning for the 6th. On the other hand, the coming fight over Gonzales and the filibuster couldn't make it any clearer to the Democrats that the Republicans aren't interested in bipartisanship.

[m.standridge]

14. now, though, with the Pacific tsunami disasters

I guess his approval ratings will go up. He's going to help desperate people, that will give him bipartisan support and positive press.
But I think you're right, the low approval rating is a powerful indicator about the exit poll theory and the msmedia has noticed it and mentioned it.
Things change from minute to minute. I'm following all of this as closely as I can, but it's a real roller-coaster.