The best argument I've found for a Senator to stand up.

[hootinholler]

Comes from Bush V Gore in Justice Breyer's dissent, when speaking as to why the Court should not have heard the case to begin with: (Emphasis mine)

To the contrary, the Twelfth Amendment commits to Congress the authority and responsibility to count electoral votes. A federal statute, the Electoral Count Act, enacted after the close 1876 Hayes-Tilden Presidential election, specifies that, after States have tried to resolve disputes (through “judicial” or other means), Congress is the body primarily authorized to resolve remaining disputes. See Electoral Count Act of 1887, 24 Stat. 373, 3 U.S.C. § 5 6, and 15.

The legislative history of the Act makes clear its intent to commit the power to resolve such disputes to Congress, rather than the courts:

“The two Houses are, by the Constitution, authorized to make the count of electoral votes. They can only count legal votes, and in doing so must determine, from the best evidence to be had, what are legal votes .... The power to determine rests with the two Houses, and there is no other constitutional tribunal.” H. Rep. No. 1638, 49th Cong., 1st Sess., 2 (1886) (report submitted by Rep. Caldwell, Select Committee on the Election of President and Vice-President).

The Member of Congress who introduced the Act added:

“The power to judge of the legality of the votes is a necessary consequent of the power to count. The existence of this power is of absolute necessity to the preservation of the Government. The interests of all the States in their relations to each other in the Federal Union demand that the ultimate tribunal to decide upon the election of President should be a constituent body, in which the States in their federal relationships and the people in their sovereign capacity should be represented.” 18 Cong. Rec. 30 (1886).

The way I read this, there is no requirement of evidence. The only requirement is a compelling enough argument. Once a challengable vote is in fact challenged, each Congressman is Duty Bound by thier oath of office to act in judgement of the acceptability of the electoral votes from that state.

-Hoot

Flame on :P

[DCdem87]

1. Yes

but of course then you aren't factoring the capitulating-bitch factor.

[IndyOp]

2. The only question left is, "Will justice roll down like mighty waters?" nt

[hootinholler]

10. I love that quote N/T

-Hoot

[RevCheesehead]

23. "..and righteousness, like an ever-flowing stream?" (nt)

[Twist_U_Up]

3. why didn`t this happen in 2000 ? n/t

[Skink]

4. Do we really want President Hastert.

:crazy:

[Pirate Smile]

17. Frankly, I'd take Hastert over Shrub. My God, could he be any worse.

[hootinholler]

6. The lame answer given

was 'We weren't asked'. Unfortunately it was Kerry and another Senator that gave the reply in an interview I think in 2001. Sorry I don't have the link.

-Hoot

On Edit: Who TF is Hastert?

[IndyPriest]

11. On who is Hastert - Speaker of the House, 3rd in line if the schrub and

the dick are kicked.

[Twist_U_Up]

13. I remember that now !

this may well be the route..couple more days we`ll know

[mzmolly]

5. EXCELLENT POINT! Pass this on to Conyers and those in the Senate.

:toast: to you!

The job becomes framing it this way for the Senate and frankly for the General Public.

Too many hear are saying "there's fraud you idiot!" "Agree with me or else!"

When what they should be saying is "proof of fraud is NOT required."

Good job!

Nominated for the home page!

[hootinholler]

7. I would love to have a one on one with either of my Senators.

But it's not like this is *my* idea or anything. I dropped the link where the argument was presented.

-Hoot

[bleever]

8. Wow! I wasn't expecting something THAT good!

Very tasty, procedurally speaking! My favorite part (aside from my new catch phrase, "necessary consequent") is: "the ultimate tribunal to decide upon the election of President should be a constituent body" because it speaks directly to legislative intent of a law that directly addresses the balance of powers here.

:bounce:

[hootinholler]

9. The question is how can I get it actually seen

by the Membership? I have a letter I'd like my Senators to actually read along with this.

Perhaps someone interviews Justice Breyer? Diane Rheem? I'm sure he would be a valuable resource to assit Mr. Conyers.

-Hoot

[bleever]

12. Kick.

[IndyPriest]

14. What I love about this section from 1886 is it shows people

still loved this country, "got" the idea of it, and were willing to legislate for it -- even after the Civil War. Nice that Breyer found the section.

[Pirate Smile]

15. That is perfect. It releases the challengers from having the burden

of "proving fraud". All you need is a dispute.

Mzmolly is right, this finally gives a great way to frame the issue.

[understandinglife]

16. Excellent; please check your pm (n/t)

[hootinholler]

21. Checked and done. N/T

Please keep kicked.

-Hoot

[Twist_U_Up]

18. kick

[Amaryllis]

19. Lots more great arguments here for standing up:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss//duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=226349&mesg_id=226349

[hootinholler]

22. Yes, those are important too.

This could be argued to be a statutory mandate to contest if the state hasn't resolved all cases.

-Hoot

[me b zola]

20. Beautiful!

Hootin' for Hoot:kick:

[mulethree]

24. kick n/t

[Wilms]

25. Got it. Thanks. n/t

[bleever]

26. Sleepytime kick.

[Vektor]

27. kick! n/t

[Sleepless In NY]

28. hootinholler Awesome post!

Hope you passed this on to your senators! I'll try with mine! This should be on the Home Page! Thank you so much!

[Sleepless In NY]

29. kick!

[Sleepless In NY]

30. Kick!

[hootinholler]

31. Please keep kicked for a day. N/T

-Hoot

[bleever]

40. Still kickin'.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

32. The best evidence I've found is our own power.

Dear Senator ________,

I canvassed, I phoned, I argued, I donated, I supported, I pled, I cajoled, I persuaded, I wrote, I stood, I registered, I voted. It didn't matter.

Losing is hard. Losing the right to vote is unacceptable. If you and the Democratic Party do not step forward to protest the irregularities, conflicts of interest, and out-in-out fraud in this past election, I will never support you or any other Democrat for any race again. In fact, I will do everything in my power--I will devote my time and energy and money--to persuade people NOT to vote for any Democrat.

Why? You belong to the party of the people. If you do not stand to defend them, to defend the right of every person to vote and to have that vote counted accurately, what is the purpose of voting? I pledge I will do everything in my power to lobby and argue everyone I can out of the notion they should ever vote for a party that doesn't value the vote.

Unless you remember what it means to be an American.



(ed. for typo)

[Al-CIAda]

33. kick

[bear425]

34. No flames here! Thanks for posting this...

I will use this when I call all the Senators today. Hopefully, I will get their ear and not just a message taker.

[hootinholler]

35. You're welcome, go get em. N/T

-Hoot

[bleever]

36. Kick.

[Pacifist Patriot]

37. Splendid.

[bleever]

38. My leg is twitching...I think...yes...KICK.

Ahh, that felt good.

[davidgmills]

39. Judge Bryer had it right then,

he has it right now. If only the other members of the Court and the Congress had listened to him last time.

[hootinholler]

41. Yep.

BTW, it's Justice Breyer.

-Hoot

[bettyellen]

42. thanks Hoot!

[hootinholler]

43. Drive time kick N/T

-Hoot

[bettyellen]

45. hootsie, you going to be in dc??

[hootinholler]

52. You betcher bippie.

I'm trying to make the RFD dealio tonite.

-Hoot

[unpossibles]

44. this is beautiful

now hopefully they'll understand and do the right thing.

[berniew1]

46. I think this is a solid case; but I'm aware there is more documentation

EIRS reports paper trail documents touchscreen machnine fraud in many states that thought they had no paper trail,
but not in those with paper trail;
(and other types of fraud have also been documented in this election
and widespread systematic voter suppression)

.(mostly default from Kerry to Bush but some other races also)(big EIRS paper trail of all systems)

Vote machine fraud documented in

Florida and New Mexico

http://www.flcv.com/fraudpat.html

http://www.flcv.com/EIRSFla.html

http://www.flcv.com/bernalil.html

Ohio http://northnet.org/minstel/alpage.htm Mahoning

and http://www.flcv.com/fraudpat.html

Orange Co. Calif http://www.flcv.com/orangets.html

Mercer Co. Pennsylvania www.voteprotect.org maps Penn Mercer

Travis co. Texas www.voteprotect.org maps Texas Travis

Snohomish Co. Washington www.voteprotect.org maps Wash Snohomish

and etc.

(these aren't hyperlinked here)

[berniew1]

47. And Exit poll data has strong evidence Kerry won

Newly released Media Exit Poll:

1) 59% of the 17% who did NOT vote in 2000 but who did in 2004 voted for Kerry. Just 39% for Bush.

2) 65% of those who did NOT vote for Bush or Gore in 2000 voted for Kerry. Just 13% for Bush and 16% for Nader.

3) 91% of those who voted for Gore, voted for Kerry.

4) 90% of those who voted for Bush in 2000, voted for Bush in 2004.

5) 20% (approx) of all voters are new voters. Of these voters according to the exit polls 65% voted Kerry and 35% voted Bush

6)The exit poll from the South shows Kerry won 64% of the Hispanic Vote.


7) Kerry's margin of victory was INCREASING, not decreasing as the day grew later


Some common myths regarding need tor adjustment dispelled by the Newly Released poll data:

1. The earlier exit poll numbers oversampled women.

Wrong. The 7:30 p.m. exit poll numbers consisted of 54% women and 46% men. The final exit poll numbers included the exact same percentages.

2. The earlier exit poll numbers oversampled minorities.

Wrong. The 7:30 p.m. exit poll numbers consisted of 11% blacks and 9% hispanics. The final exit poll numbers included 11% blacks and 8% hispanics.

3. The earlier exit poll numbers oversampled democrats (i.e., republicans voted later in the day).

Wrong. The 7:30 p.m. exit poll numbers consisted of 38% democrats, the final exit poll numbers consisted of 37%.

4. The earlier exit poll numbers undersampled rural voters.

Wrong. The 7:30 p.m. exit poll numbers consisted of 16% rural voters, same as the final exit poll numbers.


Newly Released Exit polls also show Kerry won in all major groups of voters except in the South

HORIZONTAL WEIGHTED
PARTYID Vertical Bush Kerry Nader Bush Kerry Nader
Dem 38% 9% 90% 1% 3.4% 34.2% 0.4%
Repub 36% 92% 7% 0% 33.1% 2.5% 0.0%
Indep 26% 45% 52% 2% 11.7% 13.5% 0.5%

100% 48.2% 50.2% 0.9%

IDEOLOGY
Liberal 22% 12% 86% 1% 2.6% 18.9% 0.2%
Moderate 45% 41% 57% 1% 18.5% 25.7% 0.5%
Conserv 33% 82% 16% 1% 27.1% 5.3% 0.3%

100% 48.2% 49.9% 1.0%

RELIGION
Protestant 53% 56% 43% 1% 29.7% 22.8% 0.5%
Catholic 27% 49% 50% 1% 13.2% 13.5% 0.3%
Jewish 3% 23% 77% 0% 0.7% 2.3% 0.0%
Other 7% 20% 75% 4% 1.4% 5.3% 0.3%
None 11% 29% 70% 1% 3.2% 7.7% 0.1%

100% 48.2% 51.6% 1.2%


MILITARY
Yes 18% 55% 43% 1% 9.9% 7.7% 0.2%
No 82% 46% 53% 1% 37.7% 43.5% 0.8%

100% 47.6% 51.2% 1.0%

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/pdfs/Mitofsky4zonedata /
http://www.appliedresearch.us/sf/epdiscrep.htm

[berniew1]

51. Dr. Richard Phillip's URl has a typo:

http://northnet.org/minstrel/alpage.htm Mahoning

[Al-CIAda]

48. kick

.

[bleever]

49. Of the people, for the people, by the people, KICK.

[FreepFryer]

50. This has been the attachment

To my letters to the Senators.

Great work.