Paper ballots NOW!!!! Hand counts Now!!!!!

[In Truth We Trust]

For those of you attending the DC protest and those of us contacting congresspeople and media and friends please let them know that we demand one thing and one thing only when it comes to our vote. Paper ballots and hand counts, now! No national standard etechnology bs like HAVA.

Paper pure and simple. Hand counts pure and simple.

[fryguy]

1. not to mention

non-partisan election officials and un-biased election monitors

[seriousstan]

12. There are no such animals.

There may be those who SAY they are but everyone has a favorite candidate on election day, thereby making them bias and partisan.

[Carolab]

2. ABSOLUTELY

This is KEY. We MUST PUSH FOR THIS NOW!!!

[Junkdrawer]

3. Agreed. I posted this on Christmas...

It’s Not the Paper Ballots – it’s the HAND COUNTING that’s Important.

In this election, almost exclusively, machines counted the vote. Now the dangers of the touchscreen machines have been analyzed ad nauseum. But optical scan and punchcard ballots are still the predominant way of voting in this country. And both are counted on election night by machines, machines that are run by custom, proprietary (read secret) software provided by private companies. Private companies whose owners donate almost exclusively to the Republican Party.

Well, you might say, at least optical scan and punchcard ballots provide a paper trail. But ask yourself: “When are these paper trails used?” 99.9% of the time, they are only used if the election is within 0.5% - the equivalent of a coin falling upright on its edge. So if the machines were rigged, and rigged to give the desired candidate a decisive edge, the cheaters would almost never get caught.

The Ohio recount was one of the first opportunities to check the honesty of these machines. But 34 days passed between the election and the certification of the election. And the recount didn’t start until eight days after that. And during this time, ballots were stored in various unsecured locations – store rooms, closets, sometimes locked, sometimes unlocked, in buildings that were sometimes locked and sometimes unlocked.

Now in this country, we have a secret ballot and that’s a good thing. Only you and your conscience, assuming you still have one, should be in that voting booth. But a secret ballot has an inherent danger – ballots are ridiculously easy to counterfeit. And the various goings on in Ohio, especially in Greene County, have many of us suspecting that is indeed what has happened.

No, if you want an honest count, an honest hand count, your only shot is Election Night. And that is why democracies all over the world still use paper ballots, hand counted in front of witnesses on election night. It can be done. Canada recently had an election and most results were reported within a few hours of the close of polls. And they use paper ballots hand counted in front of "scrutineers" from each party. And you know what? I've never heard of a peep of "fraud" coming out of that election.

[SicTransit]

5. I posted this before - but here goes again

Canadians do not have as many races on the same ballot as Americans do.

In Ohio on some ballots voters had more than 100 choices - that is, there were more than 100 simultaneous races, from President to Senator, down to local dog catcher and various propositions.

Let's see how hand-counting paper ballots would work. Here is a calculation. 100 races on the ballot. 1000 ballots in the precinct. If each choice takes 10 seconds to hand-count and record, and obviously that needs to be observed at least by 2 more people from the major parties (if not more) that would be 3*10*100*1000 seconds or 833 man-hours. Let's say there are 3 teams of counter+2observers per precinct. That would mean that it would take 92 hours to count all the votes. That is 12 working days - or 2.5 weeks of hugely repetitive monotonous labor for 9 people - and that is only in one precinct. If you pay these people $10/hr (which would be slave wages for this type of work) - that's $8.5K (observers would probably have to be paid by their respective parties). Multiply that by 11,000 precincts in the state of Ohio.

You can see that it is a bit more complicated than "a few hours".

[Junkdrawer]

6. And dogcatcher and President are elected on the same day because....

Maybe, just maybe, more informed decisions could be made if we had more elections than one or two a year....

[Salomonity]

8. takes too long

We have trouble getting people to show up for national elections once every other year--if you hold an election every month, you'll drive turnout way down.

We need presidential and congressional races to get people to show up for local and minor state office elections. If we had separate races for each, most people wouldn't show up, and you'd have statewide officers picked by 10% of the population.

[Junkdrawer]

9. And what did we do before 1950?

Spamming the ballot with minor offices justifies computers?

[In Truth We Trust]

10. I call Bullshit!! We've done it successfully for CENTURIES!!!

You seem to have a lot in common with the repugs. Earlier today you posted that n you thought no senator should stand tomorrow. I can't help but wonder whhat side are you on? Democracy or fascism?!?

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

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[ClassWarrior]

4. Australia counts theirs in two days.

No muss, no fuss.

Paper and pen now!!

NGU.

[tonyblair]

7. Registration!!

I haven't seen compulsory registration discussed on DU but I seriously cannot believe the mess of a system you've got.

Here in the UK, in late summer, the local authority sends round a form to EVERY householder. It gives a list of those currently registered for the address - you have to cross out any that are no longer resident, add any new residents and/ or children aged 16+ who will become eligible voters during the lifetime of the register OR sign a declaration that there are no eligible residents (eg all foreign citizens). Not returning the registration form is a criminal offence (although it is pretty much unheard of for anyone to be prosecuted - if you were, it would probably be a fine around £1000). Some people slip through the net - mostly people in insecure accommodation and those trying to avoid creditors - but probably less than 5%.

Next, a provisional register is published to allow any challenges/ mistakes to be corrected. The final register is published in February. There is provision to add your name part way through the year, but if you do so within a month or so before an election you will not be allowed to vote at that election.

When we have an election, polling cards are delivered to EVERY voter. They give the address and a map of the polling place to use and your registration number. The polling card is your voting ID; you don't need it to vote but if you can't show it you may be asked for alternative ID. When you receive a ballot you can watch your name crossed off the list.

Finally, just to mention that our PAPER ballots have a reference number matching the counterfoil so the ballot can be traced back to the voter. Obviously the elections officials wouldn't match the vote to the voter unless it was a fraud investigation, but it can be done.

Why not have our system? It was brought in because of widespread electoral fraud up to the 19th century and IT WORKS. Unfortunately, there have recently been experiments with "all postal voting" which is ripe for small scale fraud on the part of individual canvassers and carers of the elderly "helping" people vote. Before, there were restrictions on who could have a postal vote - you had to apply by a deadline before the election stating that you would be away from home. So, have our system but forget about all postal voting.