What Will You Do? Not one Senators stands.

[hang a left]

Just curious?

[fryguy]

1. pull my black hoodie on

eom

[rednitej]

19. My black hoodie is on a clotheshanger right now- ready to go.

"I scrutinize every word, memorize every line
I spit it once, refuel and re-energize and rewind
I give sight to the blind, my insight through the mind
I exercise my right to express when I feel it's time
It's just all in your mind, what you interpret it as..."

[OKthatsIT]

52. Yo...get me an anonymuos email acct, from overseas

come back organizin the gray panther underground

[fryguy]

54. check this out

www.hushmail.com

could be an important resource.....

[Divine Ms Q]

2. cry! (eom)

[BR_Parkway]

3. I will find a party that supports the people, not the status quo and the

corporate donatations and only thinks of their own next election...

[Amy6627]

11. Right on!! Me too!!!! n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

20. I will as well. n/t

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

4. Stay Positive For 24 More Hours

Plenty of time to debate that subject if necessary, but let's hope it's not necessary to worry about.

[wolfgirl]

5. Cry...and have a drink! n/t

:cry: :beer:

[fryguy]

pour one for me also

and we'll all settle in for a long long four years praying that we see the other end of the tunnel.....

[crispini]

6. Suck it up and keep working on Election Reform.

At a local level too.

Edit: Oh, and write the Democratic leadership some nasty notes.

[Warpy]

21. That's the sensible response

Face it, our elected "public servants" are paid about three times what most people on this board are paid. They stand to benefit from another 4 years of fattening the rich. I sincerely doubt they will stand against the theft of another election. It might cost them something.

[Turn CO Blue]

55. Amen, crispini. Carry on.

What will I do?

Why, carry on, of course. Just what I always do when I experience any type of tragedy, personal or otherwise -- I carry on. Life goes on. The world still turns.

I will campaign for Democrats. I will write letters. I will work toward Election Reform on a local level.

________________________________________
So...Carry on, Wayne. Carry on, Garth!

[FreepFryer]

7. Continue preparations for impeachment. (n/t)

[Karenca]

8. thats exactly what i have planned...nt

[Blue_In_AK]

14. Me too

I feel strongly that * won't make it the full four years.

[rumpel]

15. Exactly, analyze data and reports until blue in the face

[glitch]

23. On that note: I bought 10 more "Impeach Bush" buttons today to hand out.

Just a start.

[FreepFryer]

28. Right ON!

[MoonRiver]

32. Just curious about who the hell you think is going to impeach him.

THE HOUSE OF REPS, LOL?

[FreepFryer]

40. ABB = Anyone But Bush. Don't believe the lie that the GOP is united. (n/t)

[MoonRiver]

42. I certainly wish this is correct, but there are so few decent Repubs

as to virtually discount this theory. Sorry, but that's my assessment.

[FreepFryer]

43. Argue for your limitations and they will become yours. - R. Bach

[MoonRiver]

44. Please list those Repubs you think would be willing to impeach bush.

We're not even close to the Repubs in terms of numbers so just how are we to pull off this thing?

[FreepFryer]

45. No. If they ain't sayin', I ain't neither. You're going to have to work...

...harder to make us doubt our ability to convince them.

[MoonRiver]

48. I'm not interested in convincing you of that! No dog in this fight.

Just be happy with your little dream, my friend. We all need our crutches.

[FreepFryer]

62. Not a dream, it's a goal. And it's within our grasp. Are you with us?

Or would you rather decorate your cell than dream of freedom.

[genius]

9. It'll be time to eliminate the DNC and form a progressive alliance.

I dont' support third parties either. I think the progressives of all parties should unite. We have the numbers. Then they should pick the best candidate - regardless of whether he/she is a Democrat, 3d party or decine to state - and call on all their organization to back this alliance's choice. The Dems are feeling like their party failed them. The masses will go along with it.

[Florida_Geek]

10. with Kerry's email today and him leaving the country

before the 6th, I really do not expect any Senator to stand. I think the Kerry email made it clear where he stood on this.

Keep fighting for a paper trail and audits for me.

[Semi_subversive]

12. I will never again vote for Feinstein or Boxer!

[smartvoter]

13. Settle in for the long haul and keep fighting. nt

[whalerider55]

22. while I agree

you might wanna change your name to nonvoter- no enfranchisement, no democracy. no democracy, no reform. no reform, no way.

whalerider55

[BigBearJohn]

16. Color me GREEN - but now listen to this...

But I am holding a thread of hope
that there is someone with integrity
in the Senate.

I think the House Reps should break
out into the themesong of the Cowardly
Lion in the Wizard of Oz,

"Oh, I could show my prowess,
be a lion not a mowess,
if I only had the nerve."

[bardgal]

33. I agree. I refuse to in a party of LAZY COWARDS.

This will be my last straw.

[shiina]

17. riot

[glitch]

24. A riot is an ugly thing ...

and I think it's just about time we had one!!! (Young Dr. Frankenstein)

[anaxarchos]

18. Start looking for the next opportunity to raise the issue...

What happened, happened. No way to forget it.

[mousie]

29. exactly!

Will not accept or forget about election fraud!!! It may be sooo difficult to get the ABSOLUTE PROOF that will change things, even in spite of TONS of evidence... but we must not give up, and must make sure everyone knows we're NOT going to let this go. Not anymore! If Kerry knows we haven't nailed the absolute proof that would change things yet, he's ready and willing to work with us on this and make sure things are different next time around! As much of a disappointment as it is to think we're probably not going to make it in time for tomorrow, I think we all should reach back to John Kerry... he truly does care... and he will continue to do great things for our democracy, even if he doesn't get in the Whitehouse this time around.

[WilliamPitt]

25. I will man up and get the fuck back to work

[jmc777]

26. I'll come to this forum....

......and watch the place erupt! :mad:

[rumpel]

27. Let the World know, what kind of democracy we have

[Niche]

30. What's the point of this thread. Post it on the 7th

Can you do that :shrug: Just curious?

[meganmonkey]

31. I'm gonna give up and never fight for democracy again

In fact, I'll probably just start voting republican and buy an SUV.

That is, assuming I don't die instantly when Dick declares the electoral votes final

[greatscott15]

35. Keep the Faith

Keep the calls and faxes going. It's worth a shot.

[meganmonkey]

37. I was being completely facetious

I guess I should have been more obvious ;)

[librechik]

34. NOT a Democrat

whatever I may be. And i will tell them why, after 30 yrs, I am leaving the party. And I might send Al Frum something extra special from the dead flowers dept!

[mzmolly]

41. Ask why and give them a shot at sharing their perspective on the matter.

:shrug:

Then, I'll rememember that my ultimate goal is to remove Republicans from office so we don't have several more Ohio's.

[librechik]

49. if NONE stand with the Congressional Black Caucus? After 2000?

sorry, molly, I admire your optimism, but why bother? I'm too old to waste any more time trying to change the system. It's too broken. It's time to demolish it, or move on.

If SOMEONE stands, we may still have a chance, and it's worth sticking around for that. That would change my mind and defer my decision for awhile. I truly hope it happens, because I don't want my America to be dead. I am devastated that it has gone this way. And I see Democratic Leadership as responsible and complicit in much of it.

If the election system is really corrupt,(and a no-show tomorrow will confirm it for me) then making sure to vote Democrat (even tho the candidate is obviously wrong) just to get some chance to check the junta, no longer makes sense. I may as well go to the greens or libs, in order to do SOMETHING.

Or take my son and move to New Zealand. Did you know they have a woman president and the Maoris are so fierce that they get treated extremely well, just out of respect and fear? As a Lakota I would appreciate that, in contrast to the current Indian Policy here!

[mzmolly]

53. Remember there are Independents and Republicans on the Senate also.

Why just hold the Democrats responsible?

Also, consider that 23 members of the Democratic house stood in favor of this measure.

:hi:

[librechik]

88. good point. I'm not really going anywhere for awhile

I'm curious about how the whole thing will turn out. But I will be most disgusted if no Senator stands.

[DoYouEverWonder]

36. I guess you question is now mute?

Oblermann says we've got at least 6 Senators for tomorrow! Yahoo!!!

[Twist_U_Up]

38. Start filing papers to enter Canada

[katinmn]

39. Lose respect for all them. Wave goodbye because their strength

as a party will shrivel up and die.

And then I'm going to do what I will do when a half dozen stand up, focus on election and media reform and getting progressives elected.

[Democrat Dragon]

46. Move out of the county

and watch the U.S fall apart.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

47. Give up on Certification - Jan 6, Give up on Kerry Inauguration -

Jan 20th, Give up on Impeachment - Jan 19th, 2009, Give up on uncovering his fraud - NEVER.

[Walt Starr]

50. Breathe a sigh of relief

and feel like the Democrats dodged a major bullet.

[meganmonkey]

51. What sort of outcome do you see if they DO contest?

I've seen you use phrases like 'dire consequences'. What is it you are predicting exactly?

[Walt Starr]

56. Oh I see several things happening

1) The media, with help from the punditry, paints any Democrat who joins in the objection as a tinfoilhat conspiracy theorist and makes the entire Democratic Party look foolish.

2) Bush still wins via the electoral vote as the challenge will not be upheld. This will be trotted out as proof that the Democrats are tinfoilhat conspiracy theorists and fools. This will become the overwhelming perception within the nation.

3) Election fraud as an issue is relegated to the dustbin of history due to an overwhelming perception that it is a tinfoilhat conspiracy theory after the results listed above. The odds of meaningful election reform ever being passed in our lifetimes reaches infinitesimally small levels.

4) 2006 sees historical gains for the Republicans in Congress, possibly a filibuster-proof Senate.

5) In 2008, a Democrat actually wins by an extremely small electoral margin, winning in Ohio. Democrats make some gains in the House and Senate, but are still in the minority. Once again the entire slate of electors from Ohio are challenged, only this time by the Republicans citing the precedent set by the Democrats in 2004. The challenge is this time upheld which throws out the slate of electors from Ohio, throwing the election to the House and Senate where the Republican ticket wins.

There are other possibilities, too, but these are the worst consequences I see off the top of my head.

[meganmonkey]

61. How will this send Election Fraud issue to the dustbin of history?

I see it in the opposite way - and I feel like recent history supports this idea - in 2001 no Senator challenged and, if it weren't for the very poignant scene in F9/11, virtually no one would even know that a challenge was attempted. HAVA was passed to pacify people on the issue but not implemented in most places. So fraud continues. We don't contest it, it doesn't get investigated, no one knows that HAVA was a joke. That, to me, is the dustbin of history.

By having a challenge now, when post-election approval polls for Bush are just embarrassingly low, I believe this issue will be put in the forefront. Spin is spin, I don't watch TV, that's not my 'reality'. In reality, Bush's 'mandate' is a joke and casting any doubt on his legitimacy will take away more of his political capital. Two terms and never conclusively elected by the people - rather picked by SCOTUS in 2000 and Congress in 2004? Humiliating.
Not to mention how completely impotent the Dems will likely be in the next 4 years, anyway. Might as well pull some punches when they have one opportunity to do so.

Election reform is necessary, you seem to agree with that. How do you expect the Dems in Congress to have ANY effect on this issue in the next 2 or 4 years without this challenge?

[FreepFryer]

63. He's not listening to you, he's trying to waste your time. (n/t)

Walt's position has been shared ad nauseam with anyone expressing hope and unity in Electoral reform by Congress.

Don't sweat responding to him, as there's nothing to be gained.

[meganmonkey]

67. Believe me, I'm familiar with his posts and I seldom respond

I am actually trying to understand his position. I'll give it another try or two, but don't worry, I won't hurt myself over it :P

[FreepFryer]

73. Got yer back. :)

[meganmonkey]

75. Thanks, FF

:hi:

[Walt Starr]

65. I explained that quite thoroughly in my post

"3) Election fraud as an issue is relegated to the dustbin of history due to an overwhelming perception that it is a tinfoilhat conspiracy theory after the results listed above. The odds of meaningful election reform ever being passed in our lifetimes reaches infinitesimally small levels."

[meganmonkey]

72. Please see what I wrote about spin,

and respond to what I said about reality. I wouldn't call:

"due to an overwhelming perception that it is a tinfoilhat conspiracy theory after the results listed above"

a thorough explanation.

edit for spelling

[Walt Starr]

74. AS LISTED ABOVE

1) and 2) Listed why.

:eyes:

[meganmonkey]

77. Again, those are both about spin, except for the following phrase:

"Bush still wins via the electoral vote as the challenge will not be upheld"
I agree completely with that phrase, I'm sure Bush will be inaugurated, and that's not my point. Can you please respond to my specific comments above about the political reality as opposed to the spin?

[Walt Starr]

79. Politics is all about perception

perception is formed by the spin.

[meganmonkey]

80. You still haven't addressed a single point I made

just repeating your talking points over and over.

Boooorrriiinngggg.

:eyes:

Have a great night. I hope your world doesn't end if the Senators do stand up tomorrow.

[Walt Starr]

81. Sorry, the best I can say is

we have differing opinions about how this will be spun and how the American public will perceive it. We both have to wait and see how it plays out.

[Turn CO Blue]

66. Hmmmm. Just because you're paranoid

"Just because you're paranoid/Don't mean they're not after you"
- Kurt Cobain

Meaning:
Just because someone labels you a conspiracy theorist, doesn't mean that there is no conspiracy against you.

I don't care about the labels. I grow weary of keeping up appearances.

Our Dems can out-statemanship their people anytime any other f'ing day of the year. This is the one time that they'd better find their voice, their fortitude, their reason-for-being -- and stand the hell up!


__________________________
Carry on. NGU.

[Walt Starr]

69. I'm not being paranoid

just calling it as I see it from a long term strategic view.

[Turn CO Blue]

76. Actually, I feel that you mis-read me. Please try again.

I didn't write that you're paranoid. It would have been more understandable if you had thought that I was writing that I myself am paranoid.

I quoted Kurt Cobain to lead into my own thought, which was that just because someone labels someone a conspiracy theorist, doesn't mean that there wasn't actually a conspiracy.

There was and is a conspiracy to rig the vote for the Repubs in the 2004 Presidential Election. You may label me any kind of NAME for that conviction, but the NAME won't make it untrue.

Thanks for letting me clear that up.


_______________________________
Carry on. NGU.

[Turn CO Blue]

59. What is this major bullet, which you write about?

By standing up, perhaps you fear that the Democrats would have looked ill-informed? Petulant? Stubborn? Impolitic? Impudent? Bitter?

What do you fear?

George W. Bush (shudder) is himself ill-informed, petulant, stubborn, impolitic, impudent and bitter -- and he is apparently not afraid to air that in public (Lord help us all).

[Walt Starr]

60. Read post 56 n/t

[autorank]

57. Olberman's Show says "as many as six" will stand. Get used to it!

It's called ***THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT***

It was violated.

Black voters were targeted for the second presidential election in a row.

It's one of our prize legislative achievements.

If you can't support that, gees, I don't know what to say.

[in_cog_ni_to]

58. I will leave the party and join the Green Party.

I'll be FINISHED with the Dems if they don't have the balls to stand up for what's right.

[autorank]

64. Plan on sticking around (glad that you will) because they will stand!

[in_cog_ni_to]

70. They better!

:grr:

[autorank]

78. I think ONE is enough; any more than that is a bonus.

You can be sure there will be some tactical discussions about this. Who can take the hardest hit, who's up for election next cycle. I have no problem with this, it's just the real world.

The idea of NOBODY standing is just too awful to think about.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

68. Go buy a black hoodie and get very drunk

Protest like hell Jan 20, then get back to work to oust the BFEE.

[Patsy Stone]

71. Ignore posts like this until that happens, then worry. :) n/t

[MsConduct]

82. Never vote for another Dem again. n/t

[FreepFryer]

84. Who the hell are you gonna vote for, the Whigs?

[MsConduct]

85. Maybe them or the Tory's, LOL . Any other Lib group with viable

candidates.

[FreepFryer]

86. May I suggest the Suffragette's Party.

They throw boring parties, but there's always one or two who can be convinced.

[MsConduct]

90. Sorry, boring is not for me. n/t

[BeachBuckeye]

83. I will roast their asses

On the show Saturday.

[Imagevision]

87. FOXnews & MSNBC reporting expected challendges tomorrow!

Recent number is 6 Dem Senators challendging Ohio Electoral votes.
we'll see at 1:00 pm on cspan!

[peabody71]

89. Starting to appreciate Our Rights to bear arms.

Fucking fuck.